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Hircine's request: Hircine's Armor Change - More Werewolf specific gear and changes

AmericanSpy
AmericanSpy
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DISCLAIMER!
The statements made below are made with the understanding that they may or may not work for intended use. Possible unforeseen situations could possibly lead to exploitations

Hello Zenimax, and the greater Elder Scrolls Online community!

I am Hircine, like for real...my character's name is "Hircine"
afqij3b.png?1
I have a request to put out to the community for support, and possible action on by Zenimax. Recently with the One Tamriel update Zenimax reworked the Salvation set and Hircine's Armor. I would like to discuss these sets, some possible changes, and the future of werewolf builds in general.

SALVATION:
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I like the salvation set, and believe it was a step in the right direction as far as a Werewolf specific armor set. I also feel as tho it dosen't quite follow through for us werewolf builders. The reduction in ultimate cost is not a viable 5 piece bonus for either PVP or PVE. With the cost only being 300 Ult down from its prior days at 1000, I never feel the pressure to build ultimate to get into form. This set should receive some changes to make it more worth while for a werewolf to run. With the game having so many sets that increase X damage type 300+, the +150 wep dmg is underwhelming. The fact that its locked behind your transformation makes it even less usable.

Possible Salvation changes:
1) Reworked 5 piece
2) Modified 5 piece
3) Werewolf only rework


1) In this aspect you could remove the % ult reduction + in form wep dmg. The 5 piece could be replaced by another WW specific set bonus. A 5 piece bonus could correlate to WW specific bonuses and penalties. A reduction to Poison dmg would allow the user to equip gear to offset a major WW penalty, also playing well into the sets "Salvation" namesake. A different aspect would be to add perks to WW passives %increases or additional time addition mechanics(after all its not about GETTING into form, its about STAYING).

2) -One possible, and simplest change, would be to increase the Wep Dmg in form. I would propose a Wep Dmg increase to 299. The reason for the number would be to put it on par with other similar sets that could be run, ie. Hundings. This set would be comparable but has the benefit of giving the bonus at all times vs In Form, which is the trade off for the % Ult reduction.
-A separate idea would be to replace the % Ult reduction with the ability to generate Ultimate while in form +150 wep dmg.

3) -An idea I would like to see is an "OP" set that is specific and ONLY applies while in form 2-5 piece bonuses. This would hinder your character greatly vs the competition while not in form with the "balanced" "OP" bonuses in form being the offset bonus. A projected set set(Legendary Values):

2 Piece: While transformed: 258 Stam Recovery
3 Piece: While transformed: 258 Wep Dmg
4 Piece: While transformed: 1934 Max Stam
5 Piece: While transformed: Reduce poison damage taken by 25%(Negates 25% increased dmg taken for lycanthropy)

-A trans-formative set. A set that gives specific set bonuses while out of WW and while in WW. This is a great idea and a nice mechanic specific to WW as it is unique in that the Ultimate itself is a transformation and completely changes your characters stats and play style, I think you should have any armor set that follows suit.

2 Piece: 129 Stam Recovery Transformed 4% Healing Taken
3 Piece: 129 Wep Dmg Transformed 8% Ability Cost Reduction
4 Piece: 967 Max Stamina Transformed 1485 Poison Resistance
5 Piece: Reduce ability costs of group Transformed Increase Damage of WW ally abilities by 5%

The changes here focus on the changes in play style, as well as the benefits and penalties of transforming. The "Human" version of this set is a very usable set for group PVE play. Once transformed WW's no longer require the same buffs that their human forms do. WW's are very limited on their ability to carry themselves in competitive PVE play due to resource costs, sustained damage output, and survive-ability. The projected set bonuses help create a PVE WW player who is easier to keep alive in dungeons and trials but also has the added benefit of buffing fellow WW's making multiple WW in an instance a much more viable play style.

HIRCINE'S(aka My Armor):
sasEsVm.png
I will start off on this set by saying, I don't have anything against this sets bonuses, however, It is far from a "Meta" set in PVP or PVE and should be looked at for a proper rework. I think this set just doesn't do its name justice. Being that Hircine is the Daedric Prince for in this case Werewolfs, the set named after him should be much more werewolf-centric then it is, think Vampire Lord's set for werewolfs. Being that this set is supposed to be the armor of Hircine himself, or in his image, the set should be truly unique.

Possible Hircine's Armor changes:

I discussed some of the possible ideas I have for a "Unique" set above(see 3). As such, I would like to formally request the chance to communicate with the developers to be apart of a potential rework of the Hircine Armor on behalf of all my werewolf followers. I have played Werewolf the majority of my time in ESO(stretching back to Beta testing) and have a large grasp on the current state of werewolf in the game. After discussing with many players, including large Werewolf themed guilds, I know there is a community out there looking for changes to gear selection and class changes. I would like to open this discussion for further feedback from the community, current WW veterans, newer WWs looking for information, and even those who have reservations about the current state of WW in ESO.

Some other thoughts:

Given the nature of werewolf's and the "Pack" mentality, I think a combination of armor sets designed to synergize with other members of your WW group would be a great aspect to add to the game.

Imagine this: 4 WW's in a group.
Armor Set 1(Heavy): A 5 Piece that adds "Taunt" to specific WW abilities( Brutal Pounce, Ferocious Roar )
Armor Set 2(Light): A 5 Piece that allows your WW self heals to affect nearby allies ( Claws of Life, Hircines Rage )
Armor Set 3(Medium): A 5 Piece that Increases Wep/Spell Dmg of WW party members( Passively )
Armor Set 4(Medium): A 5 Piece that Increases Regeneration (and/or) Reduces ability Costs of WW party members ( Passively )

These types of sets could be used in conjunction with each other to make a full WW group viable for daily content. Just a thought.
  • shinikaze
    shinikaze
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    2 Piece: 129 Stam Recovery
    3 Piece: Wep Dmg / stamina / health / magicka recovery (honestly any of these would be useful)
    4 Piece: Reduce the cost of ww abilities (including ult) by 5%
    5 Piece: 8% Poison & desease Resistance.While in werewolf form + 3~5% damage


    that's all I need/ on a ww specific set

    Also they should make the WW transfrmation a toggle just like the Overload. Each 10 ult means 1 sec in ww form (capped at 30 sec) that way you can turn yourself whenever you need to and go back whenever is necesary wiouth worring on farming 300 ult all over again.
    Also since you can't gain ult in ww form the devour passive wont heal ult, but help you keep the transformation. also if turning ult into a toggle remove inmunity while transforming.


    I dont need op stats on a set I just want it to feel just right.



    Edited by shinikaze on November 9, 2016 3:21PM
  • Preyfar
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    Keep the 150 damage and add in a 5-10% WW skill cost reduction and I'm happy. WW skills eat up so much stamina it's ridiculous.
  • AmericanSpy
    AmericanSpy
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    Preyfar wrote: »
    Keep the 150 damage and add in a 5-10% WW skill cost reduction and I'm happy. WW skills eat up so much stamina it's ridiculous.

    I like the idea of the cost reduction at 150 wep dmg. 33% Ult reduction just seems like a dated philosophy. That would allow you to be much more efficient while in form.
    shinikaze wrote: »
    2 Piece: 129 Stam Recovery
    3 Piece: Wep Dmg / stamina / health / magicka recovery (honestly any of these would be useful)
    4 Piece: Reduce the cost of ww abilities (including ult) by 5%
    5 Piece: 8% Poison & desease Resistance.While in werewolf form + 3~5% damage


    Also they should make the WW transfrmation a toggle just like the Overload. Each 10 ult means 1 sec in ww form (capped at 30 sec) that way you can turn yourself whenever you need to and go back whenever is necesary wiouth worring on farming 300 ult all over again.

    What I keep hearing, and as you put it as well, a viable WW set has cost reduction. That is definitely a statistic that should be implemented with a WW set.

    I am still on the fence about WW being a true "Toggle", BUT, if that was the case I don't believe a 30 sec cap would be suitable. It would have to allow the use of a full Ult system to 1000 just like overlord. Unfortunately WW itself is not strong enough IMO to be comparable to Overload. Currently Overload can 1-3 shot people in PVP in the right circumstances, WW is farm from that level of dominance. Additionally WW would need a more in-depth rework of skills, penalties, and buffs then just changing the Ult form.

    Thanks for the feedback!
  • shinikaze
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    I am still on the fence about WW being a true "Toggle", BUT, if that was the case I don't believe a 30 sec cap would be suitable. It would have to allow the use of a full Ult system to 1000 just like overlord. Unfortunately WW itself is not strong enough IMO to be comparable to Overload. Currently Overload can 1-3 shot people in PVP in the right circumstances, WW is farm from that level of dominance. Additionally WW would need a more in-depth rework of skills, penalties, and buffs then just changing the Ult form.

    Thanks for the feedback!

    But it's hella fun!!! a system like that would allow player to enjoy the ww to the fullest! which is in fact my goal.

    Also, you may not 3 shot people but you get beefier and get a gap closer, powerfull cc and an ok heal.

  • IlCanis_LupuslI
    IlCanis_LupuslI
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    And make that ww heal scale of wd + max stamina.... I never understood why it is magica based... Makes no sense as a Werwolf in a Blood frenzy... Magica requires skill and concentration. Nothing a ww would have when hes transformed. Also to make Things interesting make it harder for a ww to diffriendhate between friend or foe( to make it a bit close to eso lore where you hear very often about ww damaging friends. Maby remove the undamageability of friends in ww Form that would make it loads of fun to play). And also give us a certain amount of stamina for every corpse we devour(eating gives back strength seems logical). And please fix that buggy gap closer!!! Its ticking me of in PvP. Also change the passives a bit and make it easier to stay in ww form. And change it that weapon passives (twin blade and Blunt) take effect in ww form!
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  • idk
    idk
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    Changes to salvation yes.

    Changes to the hircine set, no. It's part of a 3 set series for group buffs. While it's the weakest of the three and should be redesign for its purpose, it should. It become a WW set.
  • DocFrost72
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    Preyfar wrote: »
    Keep the 150 damage and add in a 5-10% WW skill cost reduction and I'm happy. WW skills eat up so much stamina it's ridiculous.

    Wear marksman's crest or VO with hundings. 38k stamina, 2200 regen, 5%/8% stam cost reduce, and I was hitting more than 5k WD.
  • Jim_Pipp
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    "Imagine this: 4 WW's in a group.
    Armor Set 1(Heavy): A 5 Piece that adds "Taunt" to specific WW abilities( Brutal Pounce, Ferocious Roar )"

    Hmm... nice to imagine a co-ordinated pack of werewolves, and some of the necessary sets already exist.

    The tormentor set would turn the pounce ability into a taunt.
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  • Chrlynsch
    Chrlynsch
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    And make that ww heal scale of wd + max stamina.... I never understood why it is magica based... Makes no sense as a Werwolf in a Blood frenzy... Magica requires skill and concentration. Nothing a ww would have when hes transformed. Also to make Things interesting make it harder for a ww to diffriendhate between friend or foe( to make it a bit close to eso lore where you hear very often about ww damaging friends. Maby remove the undamageability of friends in ww Form that would make it loads of fun to play). And also give us a certain amount of stamina for every corpse we devour(eating gives back strength seems logical). And please fix that buggy gap closer!!! Its ticking me of in PvP. Also change the passives a bit and make it easier to stay in ww form. And change it that weapon passives (twin blade and Blunt) take effect in ww form!

    You mave much to learn young pup.
    Caius
    Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
    PC NA
  • Chrlynsch
    Chrlynsch
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    Salvation set:
    Change the last bonus to grant 200 weapon damage/spell damage, major savagery while in werewolf form.

    Ability fixes:
    Rousing roar, increase buff time to 20 seconds
    Brutal pounce, increase aoe damage
    Fix pack leader wolf respawn bug
    Fix pursuit passive dropping after death


    Introducing the hunting grounds:
    Reopen expanded hunting grounds for wolves after quest. This zone gives unlimited time in form. When killing bosses in this zone, have a chance to drop Hircine totem weapons. These give added abilities while in werewolf form. Daily kill quest for chance at werewolf specific monster set drop.
    Caius
    Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
    PC NA
  • shinikaze
    shinikaze
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    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    Preyfar wrote: »
    Keep the 150 damage and add in a 5-10% WW skill cost reduction and I'm happy. WW skills eat up so much stamina it's ridiculous.

    Wear marksman's crest or VO with hundings. 38k stamina, 2200 regen, 5%/8% stam cost reduce, and I was hitting more than 5k WD.

    Willow path is another awesome choice!

    Btw: anyone has spare marksman shield and sword, being looking for those with no hope :confounded:

  • AmericanSpy
    AmericanSpy
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    Changes to salvation yes.

    Changes to the hircine set, no. It's part of a 3 set series for group buffs. While it's the weakest of the three and should be redesign for its purpose, it should. It become a WW set.

    Yeah, I agree the set has a place in the game "somewhere," but the NAME of the set is far from a fit. Which is where i gain most of my gripe with it. The set should simple be renamed. They could pull "Hircine's Armor" for a set down the road, possibly in the potential WW expansion. Still, name change or not, the set needs a rework.
  • AmericanSpy
    AmericanSpy
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    Jim_Pipp wrote: »
    "Imagine this: 4 WW's in a group.
    Armor Set 1(Heavy): A 5 Piece that adds "Taunt" to specific WW abilities( Brutal Pounce, Ferocious Roar )"

    Hmm... nice to imagine a co-ordinated pack of werewolves, and some of the necessary sets already exist.

    The tormentor set would turn the pounce ability into a taunt.

    Tormentor does not proc with the WW leap unfortunately. With the expanse of sets currently in the game I would really enjoy seeing more "seclusive" sets, ie the ones i mention would ONLY give perks to those in WW form. And the ability to morph a WW to fill any role would be very similar to the "classes" that have the potential to change roles based on equipment ie(DPS,Tank/Heal as a templar)
  • AzuraKin
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    you know word on the street is ww is already really strong. why would you wanna make it stronger?
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  • AmericanSpy
    AmericanSpy
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    Prothwata wrote: »
    Salvation set:
    Change the last bonus to grant 200 weapon damage/spell damage, major savagery while in werewolf form.

    Ability fixes:
    Rousing roar, increase buff time to 20 seconds
    Brutal pounce, increase aoe damage
    Fix pack leader wolf respawn bug
    Fix pursuit passive dropping after death


    Introducing the hunting grounds:
    Reopen expanded hunting grounds for wolves after quest. This zone gives unlimited time in form. When killing bosses in this zone, have a chance to drop Hircine totem weapons. These give added abilities while in werewolf form. Daily kill quest for chance at werewolf specific monster set drop.

    I feel the spell damage is wasted on WW, with only the heal being affected I would gladly trade it for 299 wep, vs 200 each.

    Rousing roar, although I agree this is an under performing skill with only 4s time on the applied buff, the larger picture is the WW's fear. The fact that this ability is so clunky it makes it almost unusable. The ability to EASILY animation cancel it means its just a waste of resources. Your forced to essentially stand still unprotected for the whole cast time(1 sec my ass), and even allowing the entire animation the chance of the fear landing is still low. If this fear worked off the same style as the NB it would be a perfectly fine ability, but its not.

    I agree with brutal pounce, its total garbage atm. Fixes are a must as well. Makes pack leader almost non-runable.

    I like the idea of added WW content, however, I think WW is in the right place with being limited to just 1 bar of skills. The skills provided are also "adequate" (although some changes should be made). What different types of skills/abilites would you like to see WW be able to perform? I'm very interested.
  • AmericanSpy
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    And make that ww heal scale of wd + max stamina.... I never understood why it is magica based... Makes no sense as a Werwolf in a Blood frenzy... Magica requires skill and concentration. Nothing a ww would have when hes transformed. Also to make Things interesting make it harder for a ww to diffriendhate between friend or foe( to make it a bit close to eso lore where you hear very often about ww damaging friends. Maby remove the undamageability of friends in ww Form that would make it loads of fun to play). And also give us a certain amount of stamina for every corpse we devour(eating gives back strength seems logical). And please fix that buggy gap closer!!! Its ticking me of in PvP. Also change the passives a bit and make it easier to stay in ww form. And change it that weapon passives (twin blade and Blunt) take effect in ww form!

    The reason behind WW heal being Mag is simple for balance. There are plenty of players who run Pelinal's successfully and are pulling double digit heals as a WW as it stands now. Although your lore reasoning is perfectly sound. I don't foresee damaging friendly targets being a valid mechanic, you will most likely be shunned in most PVP realms cause nobody need help dying in cyrodil as it is.

    As it stands, weapon passives do take effect while in form(unless I am unaware of a bug, it is intended to work).
  • AmericanSpy
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    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    Preyfar wrote: »
    Keep the 150 damage and add in a 5-10% WW skill cost reduction and I'm happy. WW skills eat up so much stamina it's ridiculous.

    Wear marksman's crest or VO with hundings. 38k stamina, 2200 regen, 5%/8% stam cost reduce, and I was hitting more than 5k WD.

    There are plenty of sets that CAN be run and be viable on a WW, the discussion is more about the fact that there ARE WW specific sets that are not even considered BIS for a WW to run. Seems kind of backwards. If ZOS designed a set for a WW to use it should be considered a MUST have. Savior's Hide was a move in the right direction but just falls short. Other "werewolf" sets including Hircines, and Wherewolf Hide are not designed WW sets and also fall short of being remotely BIS for a WW to run. Simple put, I know many WW who would run a set like Vampire's Lord(with WW specific changes). I think that set would and should be a simple and easy implementation. Hell they even have a werewolf lord polymorph, why not a gear set to match!
  • AmericanSpy
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    Keep the discussion going guys, plenty of great ideas on this forum post already. I know there's more WWs out there looking for change!
  • AmericanSpy
    AmericanSpy
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    AzuraKin wrote: »
    you know word on the street is ww is already really strong. why would you wanna make it stronger?

    I in no way deny that WW is strong, it is FAR from perfect tho. Like any other class out there it has its weaknesses. Not everyone can exploit them, but they are far from impossible. I can dominate with my WW builds, and I can be dominated. The discussion is more focused the lack of specialization that can be done on a WW. With only 1 TRUE ww set(which is trash...ish) it would be nice to see an expanded view on WW more into its unique play style vs. just fitting it with powerful gear meant for different mechanics. It's very easy to be successful this way. It would just be nice to have a set designed for WW play.
  • Chrlynsch
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    I would much rather see the salvation set turn from 33% werewolf cost reduction, to perma form. With added weapon damage. I dont think many would complain that they have a higher cost if perma-wolf is available solo.
    Caius
    Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
    PC NA
  • Glaiceana
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    I love the ideas @AmericanSpy! :)
    I used to use the Salvation set long ago, but since swapped to other gear when I was nearing max level. As my main is a dragonknight, and damage dealer, I am drawn to use other ultimates more often than werewolf. However, if there was a boost to some of these things (sets and form itself) I would consider finding the Salvation set again.
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  • AmericanSpy
    AmericanSpy
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    Glaiceana wrote: »
    I love the ideas @AmericanSpy! :)
    I used to use the Salvation set long ago, but since swapped to other gear when I was nearing max level. As my main is a dragonknight, and damage dealer, I am drawn to use other ultimates more often than werewolf. However, if there was a boost to some of these things (sets and form itself) I would consider finding the Salvation set again.

    Thanks for the support! I mainstream my WW(kinda have to with this name!) so I am always looking to better WW play.
  • AmericanSpy
    AmericanSpy
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    Prothwata wrote: »
    I would much rather see the salvation set turn from 33% werewolf cost reduction, to perma form. With added weapon damage. I dont think many would complain that they have a higher cost if perma-wolf is available solo.

    Perma WW is such a touchy issue with people. I am still on the fence. I enjoy the fact that the play style is more focused around Berserking(Big buffs for limited duration). Most of my play in ESO now I rarely find issue with maintaining my form. I would prefer a focus on WWs gaining utility over time.
  • shinikaze
    shinikaze
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    Well Zenimax could as well buff our human form. we don't really need a specific set, we just need a couple of teaks

    1st: equiping ult should also buff health regen either 10% - 10%, ( reason: ww in most lores have a heal factor, also vamps get to have 10% stamina and magicka)

    2nd: Pursuit II: Also If ww ult is equiped ncreases Heavy Attack Stamina return by 33%.
    3rd: Blood Rage II: Also If ww ult is equiped get 1 ult evevery time you take damage. This effect can occur once every 3 seconds.
    4th: Savage Strength II: Also If ww ult is equiped Increases Weapon Damage by 6%.
    5th: Call of the Pack II: Also reduce the cost of WW skills by 3% +1% for each ww in your party capped at 8%

    Edited by shinikaze on November 17, 2016 1:20PM
  • Wuuffyy
    Wuuffyy
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    I use this often and I love it. Please keep it this way. I have 4.4k norm wep dmg, 2.7k recov, and WW ult cost of 171.
    Edited by Wuuffyy on November 17, 2016 2:45PM
    Wuuffyy,
    WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
    ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
    -DM for questions
  • shinikaze
    shinikaze
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    I use this often and I love it. Please keep it this way. I have 4.4k norm wep dmg, 2.7k recov, and WW ult cost of 171.

    show me that wonderfull eq o.o!
  • Chrlynsch
    Chrlynsch
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    Prothwata wrote: »
    I would much rather see the salvation set turn from 33% werewolf cost reduction, to perma form. With added weapon damage. I dont think many would complain that they have a higher cost if perma-wolf is available solo.

    Perma WW is such a touchy issue with people. I am still on the fence. I enjoy the fact that the play style is more focused around Berserking(Big buffs for limited duration). Most of my play in ESO now I rarely find issue with maintaining my form. I would prefer a focus on WWs gaining utility over time.

    While perma wolf may be a touchy issue, it already exists in game. A group of 4 werewolves obtain permanent form while grouped together. I think if you sacrifice a set you should be able to obtain this state. This isn't so much a personal request, I can maintain form rather easily in pve/pvp and so can most Werewolf enthusiasts, heck I've done a flawless VMA run in one transformation before. Maybe this isn't the set that gets changed, maybe down the road WW will have it's own specific undaunted set for this very purpose.
    Caius
    Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
    PC NA
  • Glaiceana
    Glaiceana
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    Prothwata wrote: »
    Prothwata wrote: »
    I would much rather see the salvation set turn from 33% werewolf cost reduction, to perma form. With added weapon damage. I dont think many would complain that they have a higher cost if perma-wolf is available solo.

    Perma WW is such a touchy issue with people. I am still on the fence. I enjoy the fact that the play style is more focused around Berserking(Big buffs for limited duration). Most of my play in ESO now I rarely find issue with maintaining my form. I would prefer a focus on WWs gaining utility over time.

    While perma wolf may be a touchy issue, it already exists in game. A group of 4 werewolves obtain permanent form while grouped together. I think if you sacrifice a set you should be able to obtain this state. This isn't so much a personal request, I can maintain form rather easily in pve/pvp and so can most Werewolf enthusiasts, heck I've done a flawless VMA run in one transformation before. Maybe this isn't the set that gets changed, maybe down the road WW will have it's own specific undaunted set for this very purpose.
    That would have been awesome to see, full vMA run as werewolf :) I am going to attempt it soon, but probably not as werewolf, perhaps something I can try in future :D
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  • gammelscroll
    gammelscroll
    ✭✭✭
    ill bump this. cause i want a gear that benefit werewolf form and there is nothing in game now like other set
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