If you get a 15 min cooldown on group finder, its only fair to be immune to being kicked for 15 min.

wylievc · November 2016

Title; or have it so that being kicked does not incur the 15 min cooldown. At least 5 min immunity would be good. Leveling an alt, 99% of the time I will be kicked out, before even making passed the load screen, with a 15 min cooldown. You can imagine how frustrating/discouraging this would be for new players. At least let me show that I can add something to the dungeon before forcing me to waste my scarce time to wait for the next queue. This problem is intrinsic to the dungeon finder, a solution wouldn't be to find a guild and run with them.

disintegr8 · November 2016

Sounds reasonable, keep it at 15 minutes though instead of reducing it. Gives you a chance to prove if you are capable or not. Unfortunately some people do not care how much CP or experience you have, they see someone below level 50 put in their group and they instigate a vote to kick.

Please be ready for the barrage of comments from them defending their right to kick you. Their right to kick you apparently outranks your right to try and run a dungeon using the grouping tool.

UrQuan · November 2016

It sucks when you get kicked just because you're on a lower level character, and really that's a problem with people being idiots and/or being terrible at the game and needing max-level people to carry them.

Having said that, an immunity to being kicked would be a bad idea. It would prevent people from kicking someone who is trolling them and/or being abusive.

disintegr8 · November 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

It sucks when you get kicked just because you're on a lower level character, and really that's a problem with people being idiots and/or being terrible at the game and needing max-level people to carry them.

Having said that, an immunity to being kicked would be a bad idea. It would prevent people from kicking someone who is trolling them and/or being abusive.

There is nothing stopping you from leaving a group. If someone is trolling or being abusive you can report them. You can also turn off text chat and leave any voice chat to try and get the run done. I do a lot of random dungeons where there is nobody in text or voice chat and we can still get the job done.

wylievc · November 2016

I agree that there are certainly legit reasons to have to kick someone from the group. The need here is to mitigate the damage done to innocent players being kicked. Maybe being kicked needs to incur no cooldown penalty, even though that doesn't seem right for someone who is trolling. Regardless, you shouldn't show up ready to brave a dungeon only to find the ticker counting down until you're removed then being forced to sit out for the next 15 minutes.

JimT722 · November 2016

disintegr8 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

It sucks when you get kicked just because you're on a lower level character, and really that's a problem with people being idiots and/or being terrible at the game and needing max-level people to carry them.

Having said that, an immunity to being kicked would be a bad idea. It would prevent people from kicking someone who is trolling them and/or being abusive.

There is nothing stopping you from leaving a group. If someone is trolling or being abusive you can report them. You can also turn off text chat and leave any voice chat to try and get the run done. I do a lot of random dungeons where there is nobody in text or voice chat and we can still get the job done.

Maybe there should be a small immunity window to allow re queuing at the beginning of a run. Most of the time I get a group wanting to get rid of low cp players, its within the first few minutes.

As for the no text or voice, that can be annoying. SotH dungeons were hard when you get a group that didn't know what to do. I wanted to explain some of the mechanics, but at times everyone wasn't in text or voice chat.

Valen_Byte · November 2016

I don't use group finder. Never have. But I do have a strong opinion on this issue.

If you are using the random group finder to join a group, there should be no option to kick anyone.

If you are a leet dungeon runner, who doesn't want to risk grouping with someone who is not leet...don't use the group finder. You leets need to join a leet dungeon guild so you can run with your leet buddies and have all the leet fun you want.

You cant expect to have a leet group using a tool that is designed to put random ass people together. So sick of hearing about people getting kicked out of groups for their lvl or gear of CP. You people who do that should not use the group finder.

Malamar1229 · November 2016

bring back dps meters!

disintegr8 · November 2016

Yes, running a difficult dungeon with no communication can be very frustrating. If I left a group every time there was someone not in group or text chat, I would never get a dungeon done using group finder, so I make do. I healed Banished Cells II the other day with two people 'double bubbled' on the final boss because they did not hear me tell them the mechanics.

I guess it is part of the group finder problem, it is unreasonable to expect everyone using group finder to conform to our standards and expectations. That is when we need to stop using it and form our own groups. My friend and I two man quite a few dungeons now for pledges instead of using group finder, at least we know what is going on and what we are capable of.

SnubbS · November 2016

There just shouldn't be any penalty.

DRXHarbinger · November 2016

If kicked no penalty. If you leave full penalty...

Issue is where you get people that queue up and end up afk for 10 years....what happens then? Can't kick and can't leave. Lose lose. Only solution is to remove the travel now 60s crap. Should be a manual process by selecting join if you don't in 60s it's back of the line bruh. Only fair.

UrQuan · November 2016

disintegr8 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

It sucks when you get kicked just because you're on a lower level character, and really that's a problem with people being idiots and/or being terrible at the game and needing max-level people to carry them.

Having said that, an immunity to being kicked would be a bad idea. It would prevent people from kicking someone who is trolling them and/or being abusive.

There is nothing stopping you from leaving a group. If someone is trolling or being abusive you can report them. You can also turn off text chat and leave any voice chat to try and get the run done. I do a lot of random dungeons where there is nobody in text or voice chat and we can still get the job done.

If one person in the group is trolling and/or being abusive the solution shouldn't be for everyone else to leave the group.

STEVIL · November 2016

So just to be clear, if i am abusive to one group and get kicked, that should empower me to get a full 15m abusive non-kicable status for the next group?

wylievc · November 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

So just to be clear, if i am abusive to one group and get kicked, that should empower me to get a full 15m abusive non-kicable status for the next group?

What's your proposal? Care to partake in constructive discussion? No one is saying that there has to be a 15 min kick immunity, just that being that there is a 15 min cooldown penalty, there needs to be a way to make it fair for innocent players who are kicked automatically within seconds.

wylievc · November 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

If kicked no penalty. If you leave full penalty...

Issue is where you get people that queue up and end up afk for 10 years....what happens then? Can't kick and can't leave. Lose lose. Only solution is to remove the travel now 60s crap. Should be a manual process by selecting join if you don't in 60s it's back of the line bruh. Only fair.

If you think about what the 15 min cooldown penalty was there for in the first place I feel like a ready prompt at queue completion would render the cooldown redundant. That way afker's who would be the recipients of the intended penalty would be removed from the queue when they don't click enter now and the remaining queued players would be placed back in the front. Then you wouldn't need cooldown immunity that technically could be abused.

Izaki · November 2016

Funny thing is that more often than not, you will pull more DPS/tank better/heal better on your low level alt than the guys who kicked you.

alephthiago · November 2016

Nope, it doesnt make any sense.

AtmaDarkwolf · November 2016

sorry. HELL no.

All too often with group finders, we get ppl who are afk at the start oft he dungeons and stay that way throughout.

AND... for MOST dungeons, 15min is plenty of time to finish it.

Sorry, but if your sitting afking at the start and we get to the first boss, your punted and ima replace u with someone who actually WANTS to run it.

wylievc · November 2016

AtmaDarkwolf wrote: »

sorry. HELL no.

All too often with group finders, we get ppl who are afk at the start oft he dungeons and stay that way throughout.

AND... for MOST dungeons, 15min is plenty of time to finish it.

Sorry, but if your sitting afking at the start and we get to the first boss, your punted and ima replace u with someone who actually WANTS to run it.

I take it you didn't read anything but OP? You cannot argue the issue, it is a problem. What you have just stated is also a problem and a necessary consideration. Read through the thread first though to see how that is already in discussion.

wylievc wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

If kicked no penalty. If you leave full penalty...

Issue is where you get people that queue up and end up afk for 10 years....what happens then? Can't kick and can't leave. Lose lose. Only solution is to remove the travel now 60s crap. Should be a manual process by selecting join if you don't in 60s it's back of the line bruh. Only fair.

If you think about what the 15 min cooldown penalty was there for in the first place I feel like a ready prompt at queue completion would render the cooldown redundant. That way afker's who would be the recipients of the intended penalty would be removed from the queue when they don't click enter now and the remaining queued players would be placed back in the front. Then you wouldn't need cooldown immunity that technically could be abused.

STEVIL · November 2016

So just to be clear, if i am abusive to one group and get kicked, that should empower me to get a full 15m abusive non-kicable status for the next group?

wylievc wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

So just to be clear, if i am abusive to one group and get kicked, that should empower me to get a full 15m abusive non-kicable status for the next group?

What's your proposal? Care to partake in constructive discussion? No one is saying that there has to be a 15 min kick immunity, just that being that there is a 15 min cooldown penalty, there needs to be a way to make it fair for innocent players who are kicked automatically within seconds.

Ok so as i see it the problem is folks dont like a delay after bring voted out of a group?

Right?

"Innocent" little angels...

Here is the rub...

A person may voluntarily leave a group... for "bad" reasons (why we have timer now in fact) or for "good" reasons and no click here mechanics are ever gonna be able to tell the diff.
A person may be voted off a group... for "bad" reasons (why we have timer now in fact) or for "good" reasons and no click here mechanics are ever gonna be able to tell the diff.

So, either way you go looking for the mechanicsl fix for bad behavior will be unfair to innocents and empower some devils.

Mechanics cannot fix people behavior.

So, imo, get rid of timer altogether but enable in vote-kick-leave an easy report issue function that would need to prompt quick eval by zos and stiff penalties for out of bounds.

However, honestly, kicking someone you think is unqualified based on actual gamestats may be stupid but it will never be out of bounds.

wylievc · November 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

"Innocent" little angels...

Player being kicked for no other reason than not being above level 50? Even though they may be max champion and more knowledgeable of the dungeon they are being kicked from than the kicker? That or an actual new player who wants to run normal mode dungeons? I'd say innocent yes. I don't know if you've made any alts lately but it happens everytime without fail within seconds.

STEVIL wrote: »

So, either way you go looking for the mechanicsl fix for bad behavior will be unfair to innocents and empower some devils.

Placing a ready prompt at queue completion as discussed above, shown below, will make any cooldown penalty redundant. Mechanics don't have to be able to control behavior they should just make certain unwanted behaviors a more rare occurrence. Yes, some people could probably still abuse it, but it would be much less pronounced than it currently is, it's 100% unusable for anyone under 50.

wylievc wrote: »

If you think about what the 15 min cooldown penalty was there for in the first place I feel like a ready prompt at queue completion would render the cooldown redundant. That way afker's who would be the recipients of the intended penalty would be removed from the queue when they don't click enter now and the remaining queued players would be placed back in the front. Then you wouldn't need cooldown immunity that technically could be abused.

STEVIL wrote: »

So, imo, get rid of timer altogether but enable in vote-kick-leave an easy report issue function that would need to prompt quick eval by zos and stiff penalties for out of bounds.

I agree that, while there exists an AFK prevention system i.e. ready prompt at queue completion, there is no need for a cooldown penalty at all.

I understand where your arguments come from but there is definitely a major flaw in the system that should be fixed.

CombatPrayer · November 2016

ZOS just needs to grow a brain and get rid of these 15 min queue timers. Nobody likes them. NOBODY. And the majority of people who suffer for them are the ones who should not.

Getting kicked would be less of an issue if it didn't come with a lockout timer.

It's an awful idea that should have been done away with ages ago. Sure someone who gets kicked my have hurt feelings. Sorry for that, but at least they could queue again without waiting 15 min for being kicked.