So after a break from PVP I decided to give it another shot

Joy_Division · November 2016

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

This meta is garbage, but it can be beaten. The counter is keeping your health topped off and keep pressure on the proctato, he can't kill you if you don't let him and eventually he's gotta stop his 1 button win combo and heal, at this point if he's a stam sorc you make sure you're interrupting those dark deals, otherwise you'll run his resources out and beat him. The only REAL issue I have with viper+tremor+X is that sometimes even when you outplay them you can't close the deal, just never get too aggressive and lose sight of the fact that there's 20k instant damage loaded up ready to burst you every 4 seconds.

edit: you gotta run at least 25k health if not closer to 30 on medium armor to make it viable, HP actually has value this patch though since you get yourself out of the 1 hit threshold, once you do that you've got room to outplay and get work done.

Appreciate all the advice there, but do you see a small problem? To get 30k on his heavy armor build he sacrifices nothing, because HA just gives you that by wearing it - with medium armor you have to give up something to get that kind of health. To get high burst he sacrifices nothing; just has to wear proc sets. To get sustain he sacrifices nothing because that's built into heavy armor as well. They also get bonus healing to top it all off.
Proc sets enable these guys to play lazily and get away with it. It allows them to sacrifice very little to gain a lot. If you're still wearing medium armor though, be prepared to make some changes if you intend to fight them.
Now I'm not saying heavy armor is the issue. Proc sets are. It throws heavy armor out of balance, because not only do they have defence, but they have insane burst damage as well. This is the problem I have. I mean, god forbid they're using vitality pots as well.

Everything you're saying is true and I 100% agree with you. I'm just trying to help you find a way to enjoy Pvp ATM and for med/light builds there's only a few ways; shields, dodge roll, block+burst heals, or spec more health. I'd recommend running tri stat glyphs and a 5/1/1 setup for undaunted Passives, you have to make more sacrifices than the proctatoe but if they're not able to kill you with their "I win" button they get out of their comfort zone and you open yourself up to a world of counter play. I'm running 30k health on my light armor magplar setup but that's the price to pay for non-meta burst

Understood, but not everybody's idea of good leisure time is to knowingly bang their head up against a wall simply and run a sub-optimal build.

I ran 5 light because it was the only way I could get Lich and Soulshine in the same build. Then I finally got an axe and a shield so can now run the same two sets with 5 heavy.

The difference is night and day, even thought they were the exact same sets!

I'm glad and all heavy is something more than a PvE tank set, but now light (and medium) are just PvE DPS sets.

Minnesinger · November 2016

That is brural!

Kutsuu · November 2016

Haha already racking up the dislikes. What I thought only proc sets were a problem guys, no proc sets so it's cool right?

FireCowCommando · November 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

Haha already racking up the dislikes. What I thought only proc sets were a problem guys, no proc sets so it's cool right?

Proc sets were okay back when they only gave you more resources, like warlock. But outputting more damage than abilities themselves?...

Who the hell even wants to play that game?

Kutsuu · November 2016

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Haha already racking up the dislikes. What I thought only proc sets were a problem guys, no proc sets so it's cool right?

Proc sets were okay back when they only gave you more resources, like warlock. But outputting more damage than abilities themselves?...

Who the hell even wants to play that game?

Yeah that's why I run no proc sets. Gotta stay on the up and up, make sure it's all about skill. Pressing buttons without procs is inherently more skillful if I read these here forums correctly. *this forum needs a sarcasm emoji.

Rohamad_Ali · November 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

I just don't let them see me until they're dead.

@Alcast it takes more hits now but bow heavy attack isn't dead yet!

https://youtu.be/OdJcrovAowY

I thought the video said no proc set ...

Kutsuu · November 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

I just don't let them see me until they're dead.

@Alcast it takes more hits now but bow heavy attack isn't dead yet!

https://youtu.be/OdJcrovAowY

I thought the video said no proc set ...

Correct, no proc sets. Unless you count alchemist, but you guys have been whining about damage procs.

Lexxypwns · November 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

This meta is garbage, but it can be beaten. The counter is keeping your health topped off and keep pressure on the proctato, he can't kill you if you don't let him and eventually he's gotta stop his 1 button win combo and heal, at this point if he's a stam sorc you make sure you're interrupting those dark deals, otherwise you'll run his resources out and beat him. The only REAL issue I have with viper+tremor+X is that sometimes even when you outplay them you can't close the deal, just never get too aggressive and lose sight of the fact that there's 20k instant damage loaded up ready to burst you every 4 seconds.

edit: you gotta run at least 25k health if not closer to 30 on medium armor to make it viable, HP actually has value this patch though since you get yourself out of the 1 hit threshold, once you do that you've got room to outplay and get work done.

Appreciate all the advice there, but do you see a small problem? To get 30k on his heavy armor build he sacrifices nothing, because HA just gives you that by wearing it - with medium armor you have to give up something to get that kind of health. To get high burst he sacrifices nothing; just has to wear proc sets. To get sustain he sacrifices nothing because that's built into heavy armor as well. They also get bonus healing to top it all off.
Proc sets enable these guys to play lazily and get away with it. It allows them to sacrifice very little to gain a lot. If you're still wearing medium armor though, be prepared to make some changes if you intend to fight them.
Now I'm not saying heavy armor is the issue. Proc sets are. It throws heavy armor out of balance, because not only do they have defence, but they have insane burst damage as well. This is the problem I have. I mean, god forbid they're using vitality pots as well.

Everything you're saying is true and I 100% agree with you. I'm just trying to help you find a way to enjoy Pvp ATM and for med/light builds there's only a few ways; shields, dodge roll, block+burst heals, or spec more health. I'd recommend running tri stat glyphs and a 5/1/1 setup for undaunted Passives, you have to make more sacrifices than the proctatoe but if they're not able to kill you with their "I win" button they get out of their comfort zone and you open yourself up to a world of counter play. I'm running 30k health on my light armor magplar setup but that's the price to pay for non-meta burst

Understood, but not everybody's idea of good leisure time is to knowingly bang their head up against a wall simply and run a sub-optimal build.

I ran 5 light because it was the only way I could get Lich and Soulshine in the same build. Then I finally got an axe and a shield so can now run the same two sets with 5 heavy.

The difference is night and day, even thought they were the exact same sets!

I'm glad and all heavy is something more than a PvE tank set, but now light (and medium) are just PvE DPS sets.

Totally, 90% of the time in Pvp on any character I'm in heavy because everything else only provides damag/sustain bonuses for one resource while heavy gives you raw HP, passive mitigation, passive healing increases, AND both Stam an magika damage. Since OP mentioned running medium armor I figured I'd just make it known what it takes to run medium effectively for open world.

HoloYoitsu · November 2016

@OP did you try bringing a friend? You can use the grouping tool located in the group menu.

Alucardo · November 2016

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

@OP did you try bringing a friend? You can use the grouping tool located in the group menu.

I did. I got stuck with a CP 261 healer with a bow who did nothing but run around in circles before he got 1hit by a mob. Typical.

Lucky28 · November 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

@OP did you try bringing a friend? You can use the grouping tool located in the group menu.

I did. I got stuck with a CP 261 healer with a bow who did nothing but run around in circles before he got 1hit by a mob. Typical.

but did you try encase to even the odds?.

alephthiago · November 2016

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

@OP did you try bringing a friend? You can use the grouping tool located in the group menu.

That always crack me up lol

LegendaryChef · November 2016

The current meta has mostly put me off pvp in this game and when I do play I will happily admit that I have fully embraced my Wrobuild.

I think that to balance the current mess there is a number of things that could be done.

My first idea would be to make the procs flat damage that cannot crit.

My second idea would be to only be allowed to wear 1 instant dmg proc set at a time.

I'm not sure if bringing in both would be a little overkill but to make the game a little more skill based again I believe one of them would be ideal!

Knootewoot · November 2016

Funny is those procguys actually think they are good PvPérs. "But you have more sustain" I hear a lot since I run magicka. ***, if you can endless dodge roll and spam vigor your sustain is fine too.

RadioheadSh0t · November 2016

These proc sets have done nothing but deter me from playing this game more.

I was excited about dueling, but then I saw that they didn't balance proc sets and, to the contrary, added an absurd amount more to the game.

It is either sell out and run the sets or run sub-optimal builds for this meta.

geonsocal · November 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Nope.

I'm kind of okay with 2 proc sets listed on a death recap, 3 or more and I'm feeling like I pretty much just got hosed...

Edit: I don't think I've ever seen 8.5k damage by "hurricane" before...

Alucardo · November 2016

geonsocal wrote: »

Edit: I don't think I've ever seen 8.5k damage by "hurricane" before...

Yeah I was pretty surprised by that myself. I managed a 10k hurricane on my stam sorc once, but that's because they sat inside it the entire time. The fight in the screenshot was really not that long.

altemriel · November 2016

LOL Elder Procs Online

Derra · November 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

I just don't let them see me until they're dead.

@Alcast it takes more hits now but bow heavy attack isn't dead yet!

https://youtu.be/OdJcrovAowY

Tbh. This is in my opinion worse than proccsets. It´s the worst "pvp" gameplay i´ve ever seen in a game that promoted their pvp content in any form.

Imo the developers responsible should be randomly punched in the face once a day for as long as this nonsense exists by someone yelling: "Funstealthpunch!"
They could argue it isn´t fun for them - but hey the guy giving them a beating might tremendously enjoy that.

Knootewoot · November 2016

Maybe a dumb question, but there are so many sets around.

ARE there Light Armor magicka sets on par with velidreth, viper, red mountain, viscanon who deal the same amount of (magic) damage?

Or are they only Medium Armor stamina sets who have the best procs?

Derra · November 2016

Knootewoot wrote: »

Maybe a dumb question, but there are so many sets around.

ARE there Light Armor magicka sets on par with velidreth, viper, red mountain, viscanon who deal the same amount of (magic) damage?

Or are they only Medium Armor stamina sets who have the best procs?

Dmgwise skoria, nerien'eth and winterborn are in the same ballpark (weaker but with aoe effects of arguable usefulness). However the mechanic to trigger them or their actual workings are much different.

Skoria only proccs on damage over time (still the best set out of these three).
Nerien'eth has a 3s delay making it 100% useless against moving targets.
Winterborn has low procchance and only works on frost dmg which is only accessible in the game with a frost staff (and does not come in impen trait nor has it weapons available).

I personally feel all stam sets should have similar drawbacks as magica sets currently have if proccsets were to be kept in the game. I´d prefer a rework or removal so it´s not vaible to run more than 1 dmgprocc set if at all.

Lucky28 · November 2016

Knootewoot wrote: »

Maybe a dumb question, but there are so many sets around.

ARE there Light Armor magicka sets on par with velidreth, viper, red mountain, viscanon who deal the same amount of (magic) damage?

Or are they only Medium Armor stamina sets who have the best procs?

Magicka only really has monster helm procs. there is also winterborn, but no. magicka has nothing that's on par with Vali/Viper/Widow combo. which is fine, i don't want it. i really don't understand the appeal of having your armor sets do all the work for you. it's lame.

Izaki · November 2016

They really need to do something about these proc sets... Something like making only 1 proc set active when worn. Tremor scale shouldn't even exist. Tanks don't focus on doing damage in PvE, so who the hell got the idea of making a set proc off a taunt?!

Knootewoot · November 2016

Derra wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Maybe a dumb question, but there are so many sets around.

ARE there Light Armor magicka sets on par with velidreth, viper, red mountain, viscanon who deal the same amount of (magic) damage?

Or are they only Medium Armor stamina sets who have the best procs?

Dmgwise skoria, nerien'eth and winterborn are in the same ballpark (weaker but with aoe effects of arguable usefulness). However the mechanic to trigger them or their actual workings are much different.

Skoria only proccs on damage over time (still the best set out of these three).
Nerien'eth has a 3s delay making it 100% useless against moving targets.
Winterborn has low procchance and only works on frost dmg which is only accessible in the game with a frost staff (and does not come in impen trait nor has it weapons available).

I personally feel all stam sets should have similar drawbacks as magica sets currently have if proccsets were to be kept in the game. I´d prefer a rework or removal so it´s not vaible to run more than 1 dmgprocc set if at all.

Just as I thought. Magicka gets the low budget proc sets.

I don't even want to wear proc sets. Lame

Kutsuu · November 2016

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

They really need to do something about these proc sets... Something like making only 1 proc set active when worn. Tremor scale shouldn't even exist. Tanks don't focus on doing damage in PvE, so who the hell got the idea of making a set proc off a taunt?!

I think a set proc off taunt is a great idea. It's just dumb that it is a damage proc. Should have been something beneficial to tanks like a damage shield, resource sustain, chance to make taunt AOE, or similar.

Alucardo · November 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

They really need to do something about these proc sets... Something like making only 1 proc set active when worn. Tremor scale shouldn't even exist. Tanks don't focus on doing damage in PvE, so who the hell got the idea of making a set proc off a taunt?!

I think a set proc off taunt is a great idea. It's just dumb that it is a damage proc. Should have been something beneficial to tanks like a damage shield, resource sustain, chance to make taunt AOE, or similar.

50% chance to return stamina and magicka when taunting would be pretty beneficial to tanks. I would have preferred this over the damage it does now, as the damage it does in PVE is negligible. They've basically turned what was supposed to be a PVE set into a PVP set.

Derra · November 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

They really need to do something about these proc sets... Something like making only 1 proc set active when worn. Tremor scale shouldn't even exist. Tanks don't focus on doing damage in PvE, so who the hell got the idea of making a set proc off a taunt?!

I think a set proc off taunt is a great idea. It's just dumb that it is a damage proc. Should have been something beneficial to tanks like a damage shield, resource sustain, chance to make taunt AOE, or similar.

The only thing i find off-putting about tremorscale is the snare. Taunts have no purpose in pvp as you can not taunt enemy players.
However the snare on this set has no purpose in pve. It´s absolutely useless in a pve environment (or even directly harmful in moving npcs to aoe them better).

A good way of "fixing" tremor in that regard would be to halve it´s dmg and make it apply minor fracture/breach. That would actually be useful as a pve taunting set.

Awakatanka · November 2016

Proc sets, jesus beams and out healing 5 man damage made me not play the game anymore for now. Hope they will make it fun again.... but i have no trust in those dev people if they put this bad stuff in.......

Derra · November 2016

Awakatanka wrote: »

Proc sets, jesus beams and out healing 5 man damage made me not play the game anymore for now. Hope they will make it fun again.... but i have no trust in those dev people if they put this bad stuff in.......

I think they´re at a loss.

Personally i´ve never seen more people actually trying stuff out in pvp than in patch 1.6. The high dmg meta back than wasn´t for everybody BUT it had one big advantage. People were able to pull of the david (vs goliath).
It wasn´t happening regularly but the possibility for one lucky shot and kill on your absolute pvp nemesis was existant.

This wasn´t the case in 1.5 and it hasn´t been the case since orsinium launch.

I personally think the devs try to bring back the everything is possible element for new or underperforming pvp players. However they´re doing this in the worst possible way in the form of rgn high dmg proccs.

Takes-No-Prisoner · November 2016

Kutsuu wrote: »

Zero procs in my build and I'm still killing far more than I die. Most of my deaths are to Magsorcs honestly. Yeah it can be annoying when you die really fast because someone's procs went off, but it's far from unplayable. I also choose not to look at death recaps and just get back in the fight...

^^^
However, I die to 1vX most of the time 1.0

Lexxypwns wrote: »

This meta is garbage, but it can be beaten. The counter is keeping your health topped off and keep pressure on the proctato, he can't kill you if you don't let him and eventually he's gotta stop his 1 button win combo and heal, at this point if he's a stam sorc you make sure you're interrupting those dark deals, otherwise you'll run his resources out and beat him. The only REAL issue I have with viper+tremor+X is that sometimes even when you outplay them you can't close the deal, just never get too aggressive and lose sight of the fact that there's 20k instant damage loaded up ready to burst you every 4 seconds.