Offer more incentive to actually play the map

Kryptonite_Kent · November 2016

There's a serious problem when the main objective of Cyrodiil, taking keeps/resources/towns, gives you less AP than 1 lousy wall repair... like seriously, I busted down a whole castle wall, then another, then killed 20 guards, then flipped 2 flags, all for the glory of my faction and to progress our score and I get like 100 AP?! But wait, if you call right now, you also get upwards of 2,000 AP for killing 1 person lol... this is horrible game logic and only serves to promote campers sitting in a resource/outpost/keep waiting for someone to jump so they can get 20 times the AP gain for killing him versus taking an entire castle lol...

Ackwalan · November 2016

You get more AP for doing PVP not PVD.

Minnesinger · November 2016

They should remove all incentives to do pve but instead mixed pve objectives with pvp.

Kryptonite_Kent · November 2016

I'm not saying you shouldn't get AP for killing players, but objectives such as keep defense/offense are just as much pvp as killing another player... the problem is no one does it because its more rewarded to just simply kill someone, which has 0 impact on the campaign or the score... so either the campaign should be measured by kills accumulated per faction since that's what ZoS seems to think is worth the most AP, or doing the actual objectives that the campaign is currently based on should be worth more AP than I can get by using 1 wall repair kit.

Kartalin · November 2016

If you capture a defended keep, outpost, or resource, you get AP for defeating the ones there defending. You get AP for PVP, not PVE.

But sometimes you have to take something for people to show up so you can reap the d-ticks. Sometimes you have to incite them to fight you just to get some actual PVP happening.

Ackwalan · November 2016

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

I'm not saying you shouldn't get AP for killing players, but objectives such as keep defense/offense are just as much pvp as killing another player... the problem is no one does it because its more rewarded to just simply kill someone, which has 0 impact on the campaign or the score... so either the campaign should be measured by kills accumulated per faction since that's what ZoS seems to think is worth the most AP, or doing the actual objectives that the campaign is currently based on should be worth more AP than I can get by using 1 wall repair kit.

IF you only earned 100 AP for taking a Keep, that means it was an undefended Keep. Try taking a defended Keep and you will earned more AP, even if you fail at the Keep.

GreenSoup2HoT · November 2016

Flipping an empty keep should be worth nothing. This is pvp not pvd. Assault or Defend a keep with players there.

Publius_Scipio · November 2016

Add vehicles to PvP. Like battlefield series. Horse/guar drawn carriage to transport troops. A smaller combat ready carriage where one player steers/drives and two other players, one on each side manning something that I can only describe here as "mini rapid fire ballistas".

How about explosives (maybe barrels or something similar) that are limited to one wall per keep at a time during assaults set with a timer. The defenders can get get to it and disarm it (with a timer for the disarm to complete). If it BLOWS the wall is one shot down.

lol

Edit: Destroying a vehicle with enemy players on it should give a nice chunk of AP.

Recremen · November 2016

Set item drops when you take or defend a keep, maybe? And then they could just load the loot table with extra entries of trash traits so that you can't just overnight farm up what you want via keep swapping. I think it has some potential. Heck, throw in other rewards, like a rare chance at a gold temper or some nonsense. I think that's a type of pure RNG I could actually tolerate, since it's just incentivizing things that are important, but unpopular.

Kryptonite_Kent · November 2016

Ackwalan wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

I'm not saying you shouldn't get AP for killing players, but objectives such as keep defense/offense are just as much pvp as killing another player... the problem is no one does it because its more rewarded to just simply kill someone, which has 0 impact on the campaign or the score... so either the campaign should be measured by kills accumulated per faction since that's what ZoS seems to think is worth the most AP, or doing the actual objectives that the campaign is currently based on should be worth more AP than I can get by using 1 wall repair kit.

IF you only earned 100 AP for taking a Keep, that means it was an undefended Keep. Try taking a defended Keep and you will earned more AP, even if you fail at the Keep.

That was an example. not a personal experience lol... you guys are missing the point, I don't think pvdooring empty keeps should give you some pile of AP, I'm saying there should be a large AP gain attached to taking keeps to act as an incentive both to get people to attack and also defend instead of just camping one location for kills. You're looking at what I'm saying as I'm arguing for AP gains for acquiring empty keeps when that is not the case... I'm arguing for the actual AP gain you get from taking part in a keep/resource battle ASIDE from just kills which is currently the most prolific way to gain AP even though its not the actual objective. I mean I can break it down and say if you take an empty keep you get nothing, and if you take a guarded keep you get a set amount of AP ASIDE from the kill bonus (more than the same 100 you get from an empty keep) but I was assuming you could see my point without tunnel visioning about the pvdoor part which is a different topic altogether.

My point is to give people an incentive to want to play the map, on both defense and offense, not to give free AP for fighting NPC's, big difference.

Kryptonite_Kent · November 2016

Let me make an analogy to help explain lol...

1. Theres a rock on the ground with 50 cents under it if you go pick it up
2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

I'm saying the #2 system would be a great incentive to get more map play and less camping, which means more pvp, which is what we all want.

Kryptonite_Kent · November 2016

Recremen wrote: »

Set item drops when you take or defend a keep, maybe? And then they could just load the loot table with extra entries of trash traits so that you can't just overnight farm up what you want via keep swapping. I think it has some potential. Heck, throw in other rewards, like a rare chance at a gold temper or some nonsense. I think that's a type of pure RNG I could actually tolerate, since it's just incentivizing things that are important, but unpopular.

also a good thought!

Kryptonite_Kent · November 2016

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Add vehicles to PvP. Like battlefield series. Horse/guar drawn carriage to transport troops. A smaller combat ready carriage where one player steers/drives and two other players, one on each side manning something that I can only describe here as "mini rapid fire ballistas".

How about explosives (maybe barrels or something similar) that are limited to one wall per keep at a time during assaults set with a timer. The defenders can get get to it and disarm it (with a timer for the disarm to complete). If it BLOWS the wall is one shot down.

lol

Edit: Destroying a vehicle with enemy players on it should give a nice chunk of AP.

They would just make it a proc chance to instantly blow up the wall, probably from a set bonus... lolsss

Minno · November 2016

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Add vehicles to PvP. Like battlefield series. Horse/guar drawn carriage to transport troops. A smaller combat ready carriage where one player steers/drives and two other players, one on each side manning something that I can only describe here as "mini rapid fire ballistas".

How about explosives (maybe barrels or something similar) that are limited to one wall per keep at a time during assaults set with a timer. The defenders can get get to it and disarm it (with a timer for the disarm to complete). If it BLOWS the wall is one shot down.

lol

Edit: Destroying a vehicle with enemy players on it should give a nice chunk of AP.

They would just make it a proc chance to instantly blow up the wall, probably from a set bonus... lolsss

At least he offered a dynamic mechanic to make keep-keep battles interesting.

Cyro needs ways to alter the battlefield aside from AP, epeen guilds, and keeps respawn points.

Manoekin · November 2016

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Let me make an analogy to help explain lol...

1. Theres a rock on the ground with 50 cents under it if you go pick it up
2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

I'm saying the #2 system would be a great incentive to get more map play and less camping, which means more pvp, which is what we all want.

We already have #2 though, and that is what everyone is trying to tell you.

You get AP for killing the players at the keep, and you get bonus AP for taking/defending the keep based on how much AP the players you killed were worth. I'm struggling to figure why that isn't exactly what you are asking for.

If you're not satisfied with how much AP you get from taking the keeps you are taking, then go take a keep that has more defenders.

Kryptonite_Kent · November 2016

Manoekin wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Let me make an analogy to help explain lol...

1. Theres a rock on the ground with 50 cents under it if you go pick it up
2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

I'm saying the #2 system would be a great incentive to get more map play and less camping, which means more pvp, which is what we all want.

We already have #2 though, and that is what everyone is trying to tell you.

You get AP for killing the players at the keep, and you get bonus AP for taking/defending the keep based on how much AP the players you killed were worth. I'm struggling to figure why that isn't exactly what you are asking for.

If you're not satisfied with how much AP you get from taking the keeps you are taking, then go take a keep that has more defenders.

You're still not getting the point... you're NOT getting anything for taking a keep, you're geting that AP from kills while at a keep, the reward for actually taking the keep is still basically < 1 wall repair kit worth of AP, which doesn't provide any incentive to play the map when you could just simply go camp somewhere and achieve the same amount or more AP for doing nothing to help the campaign or the map.

You keep implying that I am complaining about not getting AP, I'm not, I'm in 1st place in my campaign, I'm saying the map is generally dead because its more AP to go do something like camp a route between keeps, camp a resource, camp outside a keep than to actually play the map because theres no incentive and generally less reward to do so.

Kryptonite_Kent · November 2016

Minno wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Add vehicles to PvP. Like battlefield series. Horse/guar drawn carriage to transport troops. A smaller combat ready carriage where one player steers/drives and two other players, one on each side manning something that I can only describe here as "mini rapid fire ballistas".

How about explosives (maybe barrels or something similar) that are limited to one wall per keep at a time during assaults set with a timer. The defenders can get get to it and disarm it (with a timer for the disarm to complete). If it BLOWS the wall is one shot down.

lol

Edit: Destroying a vehicle with enemy players on it should give a nice chunk of AP.

They would just make it a proc chance to instantly blow up the wall, probably from a set bonus... lolsss

At least he offered a dynamic mechanic to make keep-keep battles interesting.

Cyro needs ways to alter the battlefield aside from AP, epeen guilds, and keeps respawn points.

I was making a joke about the current meta...

Minno · November 2016

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Add vehicles to PvP. Like battlefield series. Horse/guar drawn carriage to transport troops. A smaller combat ready carriage where one player steers/drives and two other players, one on each side manning something that I can only describe here as "mini rapid fire ballistas".

How about explosives (maybe barrels or something similar) that are limited to one wall per keep at a time during assaults set with a timer. The defenders can get get to it and disarm it (with a timer for the disarm to complete). If it BLOWS the wall is one shot down.

lol

Edit: Destroying a vehicle with enemy players on it should give a nice chunk of AP.

They would just make it a proc chance to instantly blow up the wall, probably from a set bonus... lolsss

At least he offered a dynamic mechanic to make keep-keep battles interesting.

Cyro needs ways to alter the battlefield aside from AP, epeen guilds, and keeps respawn points.

I was making a joke about the current meta...

My bad, that flew over my head lol

FENGRUSH · November 2016

Shaming your opponent into submission is not incentive enough?!

Telel · November 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Flipping an empty keep should be worth nothing. This is pvp not pvd. Assault or Defend a keep with players there.

Conversely khajiit feels that fighting over nothing should reward nothing.

If the point of the campaign is to take territory and claim keeps then those who just want to sit on a bridge (or in a tower) pouring oil on their friends (or clueless idiots) should not be getting rewarded with AP.

Those who want to be elfish and not play the map do not deserve to end up better off than those of us having to expend our points to take the respawn points silly elf faces then use but otherwise refuse to help take or defend.

GreenSoup2HoT · November 2016

Telel wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Flipping an empty keep should be worth nothing. This is pvp not pvd. Assault or Defend a keep with players there.

Conversely khajiit feels that fighting over nothing should reward nothing.

If the point of the campaign is to take territory and claim keeps then those who just want to sit on a bridge (or in a tower) pouring oil on their friends (or clueless idiots) should not be getting rewarded with AP.

Those who want to be elfish and not play the map do not deserve to end up better off than those of us having to expend our points to take the respawn points silly elf faces then use but otherwise refuse to help take or defend.

Tower/bridge farming is still pvp. There is a mechanic that reduces pvp earned from players who die over and over aswell.

I see what your saying though. I think a big issue this game has is the population cap. If the game was better built, you could have 500 players per alliance and battles everywhere with constant action... but we have lag so are massove battles become small skirmishes. I laugh when players say zergs in eso, these so called zergs are nothing like in GW2.

Manoekin · November 2016

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Let me make an analogy to help explain lol...

1. Theres a rock on the ground with 50 cents under it if you go pick it up
2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

I'm saying the #2 system would be a great incentive to get more map play and less camping, which means more pvp, which is what we all want.

We already have #2 though, and that is what everyone is trying to tell you.

You get AP for killing the players at the keep, and you get bonus AP for taking/defending the keep based on how much AP the players you killed were worth. I'm struggling to figure why that isn't exactly what you are asking for.

If you're not satisfied with how much AP you get from taking the keeps you are taking, then go take a keep that has more defenders.

You're still not getting the point... you're NOT getting anything for taking a keep, you're geting that AP from kills while at a keep, the reward for actually taking the keep is still basically < 1 wall repair kit worth of AP, which doesn't provide any incentive to play the map when you could just simply go camp somewhere and achieve the same amount or more AP for doing nothing to help the campaign or the map.

You keep implying that I am complaining about not getting AP, I'm not, I'm in 1st place in my campaign, I'm saying the map is generally dead because its more AP to go do something like camp a route between keeps, camp a resource, camp outside a keep than to actually play the map because theres no incentive and generally less reward to do so.

One would have to assume that in order to take a defended keep one would have to kill some players along the way. That both directly and indirectly (double bonus) affects how much AP you get should you successfully take that keep. So really, you do get something for taking a keep, and unless it was undefended you get more for taking it than repairing a wall. This is where you are having trouble explaining yourself. When you tell people that you get more AP for repairing a wall than taking a keep because you only get 100ap for taking a keep... for some unknown reason people assume you mean taking an undefended keep, because that math only ever works out when you take an undefended keep.

So, if we know - not assume - know that what you are asking for is for the base amount of AP for taking a keep to be worth more, then yes you are asking for taking undefended keeps to be worth more. You cannot simply state you are not asking for this, because a system already exists that makes taking and defending keep profitable AP-wise should there be any defenders/attackers. Thus, if you are not asking for a base increase, but an increase based on the amount of defenders/attackers I would say you are asking for something that already exists and is used to gain large amounts of AP. I suppose the only other option we have here would be to assume you have no knowledge of how such PvP mechanics work, but I don't think that's the case.

I mean holy *** this cannot be that *** hard. Let me quote your own damn example for you, AGAIN.

2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

That is quite literally an explanation of how taking a defended keep works at this very moment. If you are NOT talking about that, then first off I don't know why you gave that explanation, but secondly the only other option there is is for you to be talking about undefended keeps. I really hope explaining this three different ways to you gets through, but it may just not be enough.

Telel · November 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Flipping an empty keep should be worth nothing. This is pvp not pvd. Assault or Defend a keep with players there.

Conversely khajiit feels that fighting over nothing should reward nothing.

If the point of the campaign is to take territory and claim keeps then those who just want to sit on a bridge (or in a tower) pouring oil on their friends (or clueless idiots) should not be getting rewarded with AP.

Those who want to be elfish and not play the map do not deserve to end up better off than those of us having to expend our points to take the respawn points silly elf faces then use but otherwise refuse to help take or defend.

Tower/bridge farming is still pvp. There is a mechanic that reduces pvp earned from players who die over and over aswell.

I see what your saying though. I think a big issue this game has is the population cap. If the game was better built, you could have 500 players per alliance and battles everywhere with constant action... but we have lag so are massove battles become small skirmishes. I laugh when players say zergs in eso, these so called zergs are nothing like in GW2.

This one shall resort to elf words when they offer a humble rebuttal.

If you had 500 players per side. 490 AD and 490 EP would be at the bridge helping their friends level their alts, and the same 10 PVpers would still be begging in zone for help to retake even one home keep.

Khajiit apologizes for the minor hyperbole but they felt it requisite to get their point across. Plus 11 PVpers just sounds like a made up number.

Kryptonite_Kent · November 2016

Manoekin wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Let me make an analogy to help explain lol...

1. Theres a rock on the ground with 50 cents under it if you go pick it up
2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

I'm saying the #2 system would be a great incentive to get more map play and less camping, which means more pvp, which is what we all want.

We already have #2 though, and that is what everyone is trying to tell you.

You get AP for killing the players at the keep, and you get bonus AP for taking/defending the keep based on how much AP the players you killed were worth. I'm struggling to figure why that isn't exactly what you are asking for.

If you're not satisfied with how much AP you get from taking the keeps you are taking, then go take a keep that has more defenders.

You're still not getting the point... you're NOT getting anything for taking a keep, you're geting that AP from kills while at a keep, the reward for actually taking the keep is still basically < 1 wall repair kit worth of AP, which doesn't provide any incentive to play the map when you could just simply go camp somewhere and achieve the same amount or more AP for doing nothing to help the campaign or the map.

You keep implying that I am complaining about not getting AP, I'm not, I'm in 1st place in my campaign, I'm saying the map is generally dead because its more AP to go do something like camp a route between keeps, camp a resource, camp outside a keep than to actually play the map because theres no incentive and generally less reward to do so.

One would have to assume that in order to take a defended keep one would have to kill some players along the way. That both directly and indirectly (double bonus) affects how much AP you get should you successfully take that keep. So really, you do get something for taking a keep, and unless it was undefended you get more for taking it than repairing a wall. This is where you are having trouble explaining yourself. When you tell people that you get more AP for repairing a wall than taking a keep because you only get 100ap for taking a keep... for some unknown reason people assume you mean taking an undefended keep, because that math only ever works out when you take an undefended keep.

So, if we know - not assume - know that what you are asking for is for the base amount of AP for taking a keep to be worth more, then yes you are asking for taking undefended keeps to be worth more. You cannot simply state you are not asking for this, because a system already exists that makes taking and defending keep profitable AP-wise should there be any defenders/attackers. Thus, if you are not asking for a base increase, but an increase based on the amount of defenders/attackers I would say you are asking for something that already exists and is used to gain large amounts of AP. I suppose the only other option we have here would be to assume you have no knowledge of how such PvP mechanics work, but I don't think that's the case.

I mean holy *** this cannot be that *** hard. Let me quote your own damn example for you, AGAIN.

2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

That is quite literally an explanation of how taking a defended keep works at this very moment. If you are NOT talking about that, then first off I don't know why you gave that explanation, but secondly the only other option there is is for you to be talking about undefended keeps. I really hope explaining this three different ways to you gets through, but it may just not be enough.

Well to be fair, yes you indirectly get AP from being involved in defense/offense of a keep... lets take AP out of the equation to maybe make my point a bit clearer since that's what we're all stuck on here... there is no actual incentive or reward for taking a keep, the rewards you get are all based on kills, but the system of the campaign is based on the objective of taking keeps/resources. I'm looking for a way to incentivize people to actually do the objectives other than to zerg the map for emp, which is really the only reward for doing the objectives, but back to AP since that's the only thing people seem to care about lol so that's why I mentioned maybe having a large purse of AP SEPERATE from the standard AP from kills, that you can get anywhere on the map, attached to a castle BUT only if there was active combat at said castle. To further that, if you successfully defend the castle you get the purse and it resets.... yes you ALREADY get defense AP, but those again are from kills, not from the objective itself.

So what I'm saying is... lets say each keep has 10K alliance points attached to it per battle, A LOT more people are going to be fighting over objectives rather than camping if they know theres a guaranteed reward versus "oh a keep is flagged by 1 siege, probably not worth going there for 1 guy because its only a few AP" as it would now be "holy shite, a keep is flagged, lemme get in on that for that 10K" lol

Curragraigue · November 2016

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

I'm not saying you shouldn't get AP for killing players, but objectives such as keep defense/offense are just as much pvp as killing another player... the problem is no one does it because its more rewarded to just simply kill someone, which has 0 impact on the campaign or the score... so either the campaign should be measured by kills accumulated per faction since that's what ZoS seems to think is worth the most AP, or doing the actual objectives that the campaign is currently based on should be worth more AP than I can get by using 1 wall repair kit.

IF you only earned 100 AP for taking a Keep, that means it was an undefended Keep. Try taking a defended Keep and you will earned more AP, even if you fail at the Keep.

That was an example. not a personal experience lol... you guys are missing the point, I don't think pvdooring empty keeps should give you some pile of AP, I'm saying there should be a large AP gain attached to taking keeps to act as an incentive both to get people to attack and also defend instead of just camping one location for kills. You're looking at what I'm saying as I'm arguing for AP gains for acquiring empty keeps when that is not the case... I'm arguing for the actual AP gain you get from taking part in a keep/resource battle ASIDE from just kills which is currently the most prolific way to gain AP even though its not the actual objective. I mean I can break it down and say if you take an empty keep you get nothing, and if you take a guarded keep you get a set amount of AP ASIDE from the kill bonus (more than the same 100 you get from an empty keep) but I was assuming you could see my point without tunnel visioning about the pvdoor part which is a different topic altogether.

My point is to give people an incentive to want to play the map, on both defense and offense, not to give free AP for fighting NPC's, big difference.

Problem was the example you gave was clearly a PvDoor. You get AP for both O'ticks and D'ticks if you are attacking or defending a keep that has enemy players attacking or defending. If what you are asking for is for players to get a commensurate rate of AP for offence as you do for defence that is a different discussion.

Factors to consider though is offence currently has a benefit to faction score and defence can involve sitting at a keep to watch out for attacks behind the frontline.

Curragraigue · November 2016

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Let me make an analogy to help explain lol...

1. Theres a rock on the ground with 50 cents under it if you go pick it up
2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

I'm saying the #2 system would be a great incentive to get more map play and less camping, which means more pvp, which is what we all want.

We already have #2 though, and that is what everyone is trying to tell you.

You get AP for killing the players at the keep, and you get bonus AP for taking/defending the keep based on how much AP the players you killed were worth. I'm struggling to figure why that isn't exactly what you are asking for.

If you're not satisfied with how much AP you get from taking the keeps you are taking, then go take a keep that has more defenders.

You're still not getting the point... you're NOT getting anything for taking a keep, you're geting that AP from kills while at a keep, the reward for actually taking the keep is still basically < 1 wall repair kit worth of AP, which doesn't provide any incentive to play the map when you could just simply go camp somewhere and achieve the same amount or more AP for doing nothing to help the campaign or the map.

You keep implying that I am complaining about not getting AP, I'm not, I'm in 1st place in my campaign, I'm saying the map is generally dead because its more AP to go do something like camp a route between keeps, camp a resource, camp outside a keep than to actually play the map because theres no incentive and generally less reward to do so.

One would have to assume that in order to take a defended keep one would have to kill some players along the way. That both directly and indirectly (double bonus) affects how much AP you get should you successfully take that keep. So really, you do get something for taking a keep, and unless it was undefended you get more for taking it than repairing a wall. This is where you are having trouble explaining yourself. When you tell people that you get more AP for repairing a wall than taking a keep because you only get 100ap for taking a keep... for some unknown reason people assume you mean taking an undefended keep, because that math only ever works out when you take an undefended keep.

So, if we know - not assume - know that what you are asking for is for the base amount of AP for taking a keep to be worth more, then yes you are asking for taking undefended keeps to be worth more. You cannot simply state you are not asking for this, because a system already exists that makes taking and defending keep profitable AP-wise should there be any defenders/attackers. Thus, if you are not asking for a base increase, but an increase based on the amount of defenders/attackers I would say you are asking for something that already exists and is used to gain large amounts of AP. I suppose the only other option we have here would be to assume you have no knowledge of how such PvP mechanics work, but I don't think that's the case.

I mean holy *** this cannot be that *** hard. Let me quote your own damn example for you, AGAIN.

2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

That is quite literally an explanation of how taking a defended keep works at this very moment. If you are NOT talking about that, then first off I don't know why you gave that explanation, but secondly the only other option there is is for you to be talking about undefended keeps. I really hope explaining this three different ways to you gets through, but it may just not be enough.

Well to be fair, yes you indirectly get AP from being involved in defense/offense of a keep... lets take AP out of the equation to maybe make my point a bit clearer since that's what we're all stuck on here... there is no actual incentive or reward for taking a keep, the rewards you get are all based on kills, but the system of the campaign is based on the objective of taking keeps/resources. I'm looking for a way to incentivize people to actually do the objectives other than to zerg the map for emp, which is really the only reward for doing the objectives, but back to AP since that's the only thing people seem to care about lol so that's why I mentioned maybe having a large purse of AP SEPERATE from the standard AP from kills, that you can get anywhere on the map, attached to a castle BUT only if there was active combat at said castle. To further that, if you successfully defend the castle you get the purse and it resets.... yes you ALREADY get defense AP, but those again are from kills, not from the objective itself.

So what I'm saying is... lets say each keep has 10K alliance points attached to it per battle, A LOT more people are going to be fighting over objectives rather than camping if they know theres a guaranteed reward versus "oh a keep is flagged is by 1 siege, probably not worth going there for 1 guy because its only a few AP" as it would now be "holy shite, a keep is flagged, lemme get in on that for that 10K" lol

That incentives PvDoor

Kryptonite_Kent · November 2016

Curragraigue wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Let me make an analogy to help explain lol...

1. Theres a rock on the ground with 50 cents under it if you go pick it up
2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

I'm saying the #2 system would be a great incentive to get more map play and less camping, which means more pvp, which is what we all want.

We already have #2 though, and that is what everyone is trying to tell you.

You get AP for killing the players at the keep, and you get bonus AP for taking/defending the keep based on how much AP the players you killed were worth. I'm struggling to figure why that isn't exactly what you are asking for.

If you're not satisfied with how much AP you get from taking the keeps you are taking, then go take a keep that has more defenders.

You're still not getting the point... you're NOT getting anything for taking a keep, you're geting that AP from kills while at a keep, the reward for actually taking the keep is still basically < 1 wall repair kit worth of AP, which doesn't provide any incentive to play the map when you could just simply go camp somewhere and achieve the same amount or more AP for doing nothing to help the campaign or the map.

You keep implying that I am complaining about not getting AP, I'm not, I'm in 1st place in my campaign, I'm saying the map is generally dead because its more AP to go do something like camp a route between keeps, camp a resource, camp outside a keep than to actually play the map because theres no incentive and generally less reward to do so.

One would have to assume that in order to take a defended keep one would have to kill some players along the way. That both directly and indirectly (double bonus) affects how much AP you get should you successfully take that keep. So really, you do get something for taking a keep, and unless it was undefended you get more for taking it than repairing a wall. This is where you are having trouble explaining yourself. When you tell people that you get more AP for repairing a wall than taking a keep because you only get 100ap for taking a keep... for some unknown reason people assume you mean taking an undefended keep, because that math only ever works out when you take an undefended keep.

So, if we know - not assume - know that what you are asking for is for the base amount of AP for taking a keep to be worth more, then yes you are asking for taking undefended keeps to be worth more. You cannot simply state you are not asking for this, because a system already exists that makes taking and defending keep profitable AP-wise should there be any defenders/attackers. Thus, if you are not asking for a base increase, but an increase based on the amount of defenders/attackers I would say you are asking for something that already exists and is used to gain large amounts of AP. I suppose the only other option we have here would be to assume you have no knowledge of how such PvP mechanics work, but I don't think that's the case.

I mean holy *** this cannot be that *** hard. Let me quote your own damn example for you, AGAIN.

2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

That is quite literally an explanation of how taking a defended keep works at this very moment. If you are NOT talking about that, then first off I don't know why you gave that explanation, but secondly the only other option there is is for you to be talking about undefended keeps. I really hope explaining this three different ways to you gets through, but it may just not be enough.

Well to be fair, yes you indirectly get AP from being involved in defense/offense of a keep... lets take AP out of the equation to maybe make my point a bit clearer since that's what we're all stuck on here... there is no actual incentive or reward for taking a keep, the rewards you get are all based on kills, but the system of the campaign is based on the objective of taking keeps/resources. I'm looking for a way to incentivize people to actually do the objectives other than to zerg the map for emp, which is really the only reward for doing the objectives, but back to AP since that's the only thing people seem to care about lol so that's why I mentioned maybe having a large purse of AP SEPERATE from the standard AP from kills, that you can get anywhere on the map, attached to a castle BUT only if there was active combat at said castle. To further that, if you successfully defend the castle you get the purse and it resets.... yes you ALREADY get defense AP, but those again are from kills, not from the objective itself.

So what I'm saying is... lets say each keep has 10K alliance points attached to it per battle, A LOT more people are going to be fighting over objectives rather than camping if they know theres a guaranteed reward versus "oh a keep is flagged is by 1 siege, probably not worth going there for 1 guy because its only a few AP" as it would now be "holy shite, a keep is flagged, lemme get in on that for that 10K" lol

That incentives PvDoor

No it doesn't, read what I said, the purse would only be rewarded if there was actually a pvp battle... pvdoor implies taking an undefended keep, which is NOT what I am talking about as I have said repeatedly...

Curragraigue · November 2016

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Let me make an analogy to help explain lol...

1. Theres a rock on the ground with 50 cents under it if you go pick it up
2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

I'm saying the #2 system would be a great incentive to get more map play and less camping, which means more pvp, which is what we all want.

We already have #2 though, and that is what everyone is trying to tell you.

You get AP for killing the players at the keep, and you get bonus AP for taking/defending the keep based on how much AP the players you killed were worth. I'm struggling to figure why that isn't exactly what you are asking for.

If you're not satisfied with how much AP you get from taking the keeps you are taking, then go take a keep that has more defenders.

You're still not getting the point... you're NOT getting anything for taking a keep, you're geting that AP from kills while at a keep, the reward for actually taking the keep is still basically < 1 wall repair kit worth of AP, which doesn't provide any incentive to play the map when you could just simply go camp somewhere and achieve the same amount or more AP for doing nothing to help the campaign or the map.

You keep implying that I am complaining about not getting AP, I'm not, I'm in 1st place in my campaign, I'm saying the map is generally dead because its more AP to go do something like camp a route between keeps, camp a resource, camp outside a keep than to actually play the map because theres no incentive and generally less reward to do so.

One would have to assume that in order to take a defended keep one would have to kill some players along the way. That both directly and indirectly (double bonus) affects how much AP you get should you successfully take that keep. So really, you do get something for taking a keep, and unless it was undefended you get more for taking it than repairing a wall. This is where you are having trouble explaining yourself. When you tell people that you get more AP for repairing a wall than taking a keep because you only get 100ap for taking a keep... for some unknown reason people assume you mean taking an undefended keep, because that math only ever works out when you take an undefended keep.

So, if we know - not assume - know that what you are asking for is for the base amount of AP for taking a keep to be worth more, then yes you are asking for taking undefended keeps to be worth more. You cannot simply state you are not asking for this, because a system already exists that makes taking and defending keep profitable AP-wise should there be any defenders/attackers. Thus, if you are not asking for a base increase, but an increase based on the amount of defenders/attackers I would say you are asking for something that already exists and is used to gain large amounts of AP. I suppose the only other option we have here would be to assume you have no knowledge of how such PvP mechanics work, but I don't think that's the case.

I mean holy *** this cannot be that *** hard. Let me quote your own damn example for you, AGAIN.

2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

That is quite literally an explanation of how taking a defended keep works at this very moment. If you are NOT talking about that, then first off I don't know why you gave that explanation, but secondly the only other option there is is for you to be talking about undefended keeps. I really hope explaining this three different ways to you gets through, but it may just not be enough.

Well to be fair, yes you indirectly get AP from being involved in defense/offense of a keep... lets take AP out of the equation to maybe make my point a bit clearer since that's what we're all stuck on here... there is no actual incentive or reward for taking a keep, the rewards you get are all based on kills, but the system of the campaign is based on the objective of taking keeps/resources. I'm looking for a way to incentivize people to actually do the objectives other than to zerg the map for emp, which is really the only reward for doing the objectives, but back to AP since that's the only thing people seem to care about lol so that's why I mentioned maybe having a large purse of AP SEPERATE from the standard AP from kills, that you can get anywhere on the map, attached to a castle BUT only if there was active combat at said castle. To further that, if you successfully defend the castle you get the purse and it resets.... yes you ALREADY get defense AP, but those again are from kills, not from the objective itself.

So what I'm saying is... lets say each keep has 10K alliance points attached to it per battle, A LOT more people are going to be fighting over objectives rather than camping if they know theres a guaranteed reward versus "oh a keep is flagged is by 1 siege, probably not worth going there for 1 guy because its only a few AP" as it would now be "holy shite, a keep is flagged, lemme get in on that for that 10K" lol

That incentives PvDoor

No it doesn't, read what I said, the purse would only be rewarded if there was actually a pvp battle... pvdoor implies taking an undefended keep, which is NOT what I am talking about as I have said repeatedly...

That certainly is not clear from your post. The answer is though that there is already an O'tick for taking a defended keep, ready my post above.

PS having an auto 10k would be exploited by one friend swapping alliances to give a friend a free 10k for PvDooring in a quiet campaign.

Ackwalan · November 2016

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Let me make an analogy to help explain lol...

1. Theres a rock on the ground with 50 cents under it if you go pick it up
2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

I'm saying the #2 system would be a great incentive to get more map play and less camping, which means more pvp, which is what we all want.

We already have #2 though, and that is what everyone is trying to tell you.

You get AP for killing the players at the keep, and you get bonus AP for taking/defending the keep based on how much AP the players you killed were worth. I'm struggling to figure why that isn't exactly what you are asking for.

If you're not satisfied with how much AP you get from taking the keeps you are taking, then go take a keep that has more defenders.

You're still not getting the point... you're NOT getting anything for taking a keep, you're geting that AP from kills while at a keep, the reward for actually taking the keep is still basically < 1 wall repair kit worth of AP, which doesn't provide any incentive to play the map when you could just simply go camp somewhere and achieve the same amount or more AP for doing nothing to help the campaign or the map.

You keep implying that I am complaining about not getting AP, I'm not, I'm in 1st place in my campaign, I'm saying the map is generally dead because its more AP to go do something like camp a route between keeps, camp a resource, camp outside a keep than to actually play the map because theres no incentive and generally less reward to do so.

It's you that isn't getting it. Taking an undefended Keep or Resource earns a flat amount pf AP. If that Keep or resource is defended, you get AP for taking, AP for defeating the defenders and a bonus AP award.

Kryptonite_Kent · November 2016

Curragraigue wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Let me make an analogy to help explain lol...

1. Theres a rock on the ground with 50 cents under it if you go pick it up
2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

I'm saying the #2 system would be a great incentive to get more map play and less camping, which means more pvp, which is what we all want.

We already have #2 though, and that is what everyone is trying to tell you.

You get AP for killing the players at the keep, and you get bonus AP for taking/defending the keep based on how much AP the players you killed were worth. I'm struggling to figure why that isn't exactly what you are asking for.

If you're not satisfied with how much AP you get from taking the keeps you are taking, then go take a keep that has more defenders.

You're still not getting the point... you're NOT getting anything for taking a keep, you're geting that AP from kills while at a keep, the reward for actually taking the keep is still basically < 1 wall repair kit worth of AP, which doesn't provide any incentive to play the map when you could just simply go camp somewhere and achieve the same amount or more AP for doing nothing to help the campaign or the map.

You keep implying that I am complaining about not getting AP, I'm not, I'm in 1st place in my campaign, I'm saying the map is generally dead because its more AP to go do something like camp a route between keeps, camp a resource, camp outside a keep than to actually play the map because theres no incentive and generally less reward to do so.

One would have to assume that in order to take a defended keep one would have to kill some players along the way. That both directly and indirectly (double bonus) affects how much AP you get should you successfully take that keep. So really, you do get something for taking a keep, and unless it was undefended you get more for taking it than repairing a wall. This is where you are having trouble explaining yourself. When you tell people that you get more AP for repairing a wall than taking a keep because you only get 100ap for taking a keep... for some unknown reason people assume you mean taking an undefended keep, because that math only ever works out when you take an undefended keep.

So, if we know - not assume - know that what you are asking for is for the base amount of AP for taking a keep to be worth more, then yes you are asking for taking undefended keeps to be worth more. You cannot simply state you are not asking for this, because a system already exists that makes taking and defending keep profitable AP-wise should there be any defenders/attackers. Thus, if you are not asking for a base increase, but an increase based on the amount of defenders/attackers I would say you are asking for something that already exists and is used to gain large amounts of AP. I suppose the only other option we have here would be to assume you have no knowledge of how such PvP mechanics work, but I don't think that's the case.

I mean holy *** this cannot be that *** hard. Let me quote your own damn example for you, AGAIN.

2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

That is quite literally an explanation of how taking a defended keep works at this very moment. If you are NOT talking about that, then first off I don't know why you gave that explanation, but secondly the only other option there is is for you to be talking about undefended keeps. I really hope explaining this three different ways to you gets through, but it may just not be enough.

Well to be fair, yes you indirectly get AP from being involved in defense/offense of a keep... lets take AP out of the equation to maybe make my point a bit clearer since that's what we're all stuck on here... there is no actual incentive or reward for taking a keep, the rewards you get are all based on kills, but the system of the campaign is based on the objective of taking keeps/resources. I'm looking for a way to incentivize people to actually do the objectives other than to zerg the map for emp, which is really the only reward for doing the objectives, but back to AP since that's the only thing people seem to care about lol so that's why I mentioned maybe having a large purse of AP SEPERATE from the standard AP from kills, that you can get anywhere on the map, attached to a castle BUT only if there was active combat at said castle. To further that, if you successfully defend the castle you get the purse and it resets.... yes you ALREADY get defense AP, but those again are from kills, not from the objective itself.

So what I'm saying is... lets say each keep has 10K alliance points attached to it per battle, A LOT more people are going to be fighting over objectives rather than camping if they know theres a guaranteed reward versus "oh a keep is flagged is by 1 siege, probably not worth going there for 1 guy because its only a few AP" as it would now be "holy shite, a keep is flagged, lemme get in on that for that 10K" lol

That incentives PvDoor

No it doesn't, read what I said, the purse would only be rewarded if there was actually a pvp battle... pvdoor implies taking an undefended keep, which is NOT what I am talking about as I have said repeatedly...

That certainly is not clear from your post. The answer is though that there is already an O'tick for taking a defended keep, ready my post above.

PS having an auto 10k would be exploited by one friend swapping alliances to give a friend a free 10k for PvDooring in a quiet campaign.

Well you can already argue that is being exploited by people who take a resource near a "friends" keep and their "friend" runs out repeatedly to give them AP... you cant punish everyone for what a few bad eggs do, and I'm just putting out ideas, there are obviously ways to prevent exploiting.

Kryptonite_Kent · November 2016

Ackwalan wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »

Let me make an analogy to help explain lol...

1. Theres a rock on the ground with 50 cents under it if you go pick it up
2. Theres a rock on the ground with 500 bucks under it if you go pick it up, but you have to kick some dudes arse to do it

I'm saying the #2 system would be a great incentive to get more map play and less camping, which means more pvp, which is what we all want.

We already have #2 though, and that is what everyone is trying to tell you.

You get AP for killing the players at the keep, and you get bonus AP for taking/defending the keep based on how much AP the players you killed were worth. I'm struggling to figure why that isn't exactly what you are asking for.

If you're not satisfied with how much AP you get from taking the keeps you are taking, then go take a keep that has more defenders.

You're still not getting the point... you're NOT getting anything for taking a keep, you're geting that AP from kills while at a keep, the reward for actually taking the keep is still basically < 1 wall repair kit worth of AP, which doesn't provide any incentive to play the map when you could just simply go camp somewhere and achieve the same amount or more AP for doing nothing to help the campaign or the map.

You keep implying that I am complaining about not getting AP, I'm not, I'm in 1st place in my campaign, I'm saying the map is generally dead because its more AP to go do something like camp a route between keeps, camp a resource, camp outside a keep than to actually play the map because theres no incentive and generally less reward to do so.

It's you that isn't getting it. Taking an undefended Keep or Resource earns a flat amount pf AP. If that Keep or resource is defended, you get AP for taking, AP for defeating the defenders and a bonus AP award.

You DONT get extra rewards for a defended keep though... if there are 30 defenders but you kill 0 of them and still take the keep, you get the same reward you would for an undefended keep... thus you ARE NOT getting rewarded for taking a keep period, all the AP gains are solely from kills, defense ticks are also from kills, NOT from defense... if you kill 0 people but the keep unflags you get nada.

I don't see whats so difficult to comprehend about what I'm saying... you can get kills anywhere and get the same AP gains or more, so there is no reason to play the map objectively other than getting D ticks which again are ONLY from kills and can be acquired from resources easier than a keep, forget about AP all together just substitute ANY reward for playing the map objectively is my point, I just used AP as the reward but it could be anything.