why complain about proc sets?

Agalloch · November 2016

Community wanted ZOS to make the pve sets again available in impenetrable trait..and this is a very nice change.

So I'm sure not everyone is against the proc sets in pvp . I agree ...maybe some fixes are needed..but not so much....because proc sets are fun!

I understand your frustration but there are many players that do pvp with this changes . And they are doing well. When something is changed we should try to adapt..it's only a matter of learning .

Why u are not against Vicious Death? I think is the most op pvp set in matter of procs.( I'm not a theorycrafter anyway)

U complain about some empty campaigns.. 1 Tamriel is only 1 month old... Everybody is scattered to get the new sets and explore the new locations opened now with 1 Tamriel..

Have patience for about 1 month or two..and everything will be fine after...

Good luck and have fun in ESO!

English is not my native language.

Wollust · November 2016

sadownik · November 2016

I dont think you understand the problem with certain sets that can be stacked. I suggest you either get that build yourself or read on forums.

Beardimus · November 2016

I was with you originally, sets sound fun. And I'm sure for PvE they are. And as its bound why not play with all this fun end game stuff.

Then I've read up, seen some builds and videos from PvP and its a worry. People can stack sets, and basically hit one skill randomly proc a load of stuff that flies off and auto hits the enemy, which really dulls down gameplay / skill.

The odd set before, say Valkyn etc was ok. But multiple sets in the main stream stacked, that's what's getting too much.

I also wonder, are all these extra calculations and animations the reason for increased lag right now. In IT terms it would make sense.

Humphie · November 2016

You clearly do not PvP.

LeifErickson · November 2016

Stacking multiple proc sets is a little lame, but if we didn't have proc sets, no one would ever die. Proc sets are OP but so is healing and survivability and heavy armor. I'm not a fan of proc sets, but at least heavy armor users actually die now.

Jamini · November 2016

Oddly, I've been having a lot of success against the new sets by blocking at the right time.

Proc users tend to have their damage come in big bursts. Normally one hit right at the start of a fight, then another one five-six seconds later. Blocking mitigates a huge chunk of that burst (with a shield, I'm seeing 20k total health in procs get reduced to about 5k) , and proc users tend to be vulnerable after their procs go off unless they have other offensive mechanics to back up their procs.

Proc users tend to also come in three main flavors:

Glass Cannon Procs : Leather users with Vipers, Widowmaker/Red Mountain, and a proc monster helm (velidreth and Selene are popular)

-Like any burst build, Glass Cannon Procs sacrifice durability for raw damage. These are the guys that have enough raw damage to oneshot most light builds. Normally you can expect them to kill several if they aren't hard CC and countered. That said, they also drop quickly if fought back against. If you can survive, or avoid, their initial burst it's very possible for even a tanky build to kill them before they get a second proc. Bursts for around 20-25k. Cannon procs tend to continue to proc throughout the fight, and often run poisons to ruin your resources. Bow backbar is common, which can be very painful to fight against with viper procs on poison. A direct counter to tanks and healers, as they deal more damage than can be reliably mitigated.

Normal health range: ~20-22K in no-CP

Tank Procs: Heavy Armor users with Vipers and Tremorscale. Utilize 1h+s and any other backbar. Commonly seen with Blackrose. Heavy armor healers fit in this category as well.

-Very durable build with on-demand burst. Generally comes in flavors of blazing healtank (templar), StamDK (most durable overall), and saptanks (1vX due to extreme heal steaing). Thankfully tank proc builds do significantly less damage than Glass cannon procs, and mostly rely on catching opponents with a reliable combo of viper+tremorscale strikes. Bursts for 10-15k. In-between procs they will generally mix in CC and gapclosers to keep pressure on their opponent. Tank procs generally have overall low damage, high utility, and make up for their shortcoming with guaranteed damage off of a proc set. Tanks do not do well against glass cannons, as the cannon breaks through their defenses and heals, but tend to outlast bruisers

Normal health range: 30-50k in no-CP

Bruiser Procs : DPS-specced heroes wearing heavy armor. Utilize similar equipment to tank procs, but are outfitted with a full compliment of DPs styled morphs. Generally run blackrose + x2. Commonly vampires for additional survival tools.

-A middle of the line build between glass cannon and tank builds. These are the players that are (probably) the ones that most people are hating on. Often stamsorcs due to the infinite resources of dark deal, and the major savagery buff. Bruisers are tanky enough and armored enough to survive the initial hit of a proc burst or gank, while still doing extremely high damage overall. Initial burst of 15-20k, and a reliable DPS skillset if the opponent survives the alpha strike. Strong damage, middling survaibility. Bruisers can down glass cannons in a quick burst, but tend to lose out to tanks in the endurance race.

Normal health range: 22-30k in no-CP

---

Right now the main issue with proc sets, if anything, is how quickly they can stack procs for a cheap burst. The proposed 0.5s-1s cooldown on procs would likely push glass cannons and bruisers off of proc gear, while keeping such sets still valuable for tanks. (Personally, I would probably swap viper jewelry/weapon for thunderbug + embershield gear. As it is, I'm probably going to give that combo a try later this week anyway.)

Viper in particular could probably use a notable damage nerf to bring it in-line with other procs. (Keeping the reliability, but reducing it to 3k or 4k may be the answer. It does do a lot of damage for something that is 100% reliable.) Also a fix to make viper not proc on poisons would be nice.

Heavy Armor as a whole feels in a good place. I've been running blackrose and knight-errant on my tank, and while I feel far more durable than my baby magblade, the magblade significantly better sustained DPS in larger fights. As long as I don't try and 1v1 (which, quite honestly, light armor mag should NOT be dueling unless they are a DK. Magicka have so much group utility and far, far better AoE attacks than stamina users. If you have sticks and skirts, use your nice long range and shields while the guys with heavy armor and shields tackle/slow your enemies and the guys in leather with bows and lots of blades pick off stragglers. Cooperation is the name of the game!)

Derra · November 2016

LeifErickson wrote: »

Stacking multiple proc sets is a little lame, but if we didn't have proc sets, no one would ever die. Proc sets are OP but so is healing and survivability and heavy armor. I'm not a fan of proc sets, but at least heavy armor users actually die now.

Idk heavy armor users died just fine before even viper + velidreth.

God_flakes · November 2016

Jamini wrote: »

Oddly, I've been having a lot of success against the new sets by blocking at the right time.

Proc users tend to have their damage come in big bursts. Normally one hit right at the start of a fight, then another one five-six seconds later. Blocking mitigates a huge chunk of that burst (with a shield, I'm seeing 20k total health in procs get reduced to about 5k) , and proc users tend to be vulnerable after their procs go off unless they have other offensive mechanics to back up their procs.

Proc users tend to also come in three main flavors:

Glass Cannon Procs : Leather users with Vipers, Widowmaker/Red Mountain, and a proc monster helm (velidreth and Selene are popular)

-Like any burst build, Glass Cannon Procs sacrifice durability for raw damage. These are the guys that have enough raw damage to oneshot most light builds. Normally you can expect them to kill several if they aren't hard CC and countered. That said, they also drop quickly if fought back against. If you can survive, or avoid, their initial burst it's very possible for even a tanky build to kill them before they get a second proc. Bursts for around 20-25k. Cannon procs tend to continue to proc throughout the fight, and often run poisons to ruin your resources. Bow backbar is common, which can be very painful to fight against with viper procs on poison. A direct counter to tanks and healers, as they deal more damage than can be reliably mitigated.

Normal health range: ~20-22K in no-CP

Tank Procs: Heavy Armor users with Vipers and Tremorscale. Utilize 1h+s and any other backbar. Commonly seen with Blackrose. Heavy armor healers fit in this category as well.

-Very durable build with on-demand burst. Generally comes in flavors of blazing healtank (templar), StamDK (most durable overall), and saptanks (1vX due to extreme heal steaing). Thankfully tank proc builds do significantly less damage than Glass cannon procs, and mostly rely on catching opponents with a reliable combo of viper+tremorscale strikes. Bursts for 10-15k. In-between procs they will generally mix in CC and gapclosers to keep pressure on their opponent. Tank procs generally have overall low damage, high utility, and make up for their shortcoming with guaranteed damage off of a proc set. Tanks do not do well against glass cannons, as the cannon breaks through their defenses and heals, but tend to outlast bruisers

Normal health range: 30-50k in no-CP

Bruiser Procs : DPS-specced heroes wearing heavy armor. Utilize similar equipment to tank procs, but are outfitted with a full compliment of DPs styled morphs. Generally run blackrose + x2. Commonly vampires for additional survival tools.

-A middle of the line build between glass cannon and tank builds. These are the players that are (probably) the ones that most people are hating on. Often stamsorcs due to the infinite resources of dark deal, and the major savagery buff. Bruisers are tanky enough and armored enough to survive the initial hit of a proc burst or gank, while still doing extremely high damage overall. Initial burst of 15-20k, and a reliable DPS skillset if the opponent survives the alpha strike. Strong damage, middling survaibility. Bruisers can down glass cannons in a quick burst, but tend to lose out to tanks in the endurance race.

Normal health range: 22-30k in no-CP

---

Right now the main issue with proc sets, if anything, is how quickly they can stack procs for a cheap burst. The proposed 0.5s-1s cooldown on procs would likely push glass cannons and bruisers off of proc gear, while keeping such sets still valuable for tanks. (Personally, I would probably swap viper jewelry/weapon for thunderbug + embershield gear. As it is, I'm probably going to give that combo a try later this week anyway.)

Viper in particular could probably use a notable damage nerf to bring it in-line with other procs. (Keeping the reliability, but reducing it to 3k or 4k may be the answer. It does do a lot of damage for something that is 100% reliable.) Also a fix to make viper not proc on poisons would be nice.

Heavy Armor as a whole feels in a good place. I've been running blackrose and knight-errant on my tank, and while I feel far more durable than my baby magblade, the magblade significantly better sustained DPS in larger fights. As long as I don't try and 1v1 (which, quite honestly, light armor mag should NOT be dueling unless they are a DK. Magicka have so much group utility and far, far better AoE attacks than stamina users. If you have sticks and skirts, use your nice long range and shields while the guys with heavy armor and shields tackle/slow your enemies and the guys in leather with bows and lots of blades pick off stragglers. Cooperation is the name of the game!)

Wow great insight! I agree with you about glass cannon/light armor mag dealers. Great group utility or zerfing build. I hide behind the tanks and sorcs and range from stealth and vacuum up the low health targets. Most of the time I die is when I push too far forward or attempt to 1v1 once I'm visible and I am stopped from re-stealthing.

alephthiago · November 2016

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

Community wanted ZOS to make the pve sets again available in impenetrable trait..and this is a very nice change.

This has nothing to do with procs

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

Why u are not against Vicious Death? I think is the most op pvp set in matter of procs.( I'm not a theorycrafter anyway)

Vicious death is a niche set that works barely with bomber nbs and most recently with eye of the storm sorcs and only kills you if the victim is almost is in the middle of a compact blob of players, I see vicious death in my recap once in two weeks maybe now, before 1T once in a month.

Jamini · November 2016

Wow great insight! I agree with you about glass cannon/light armor mag dealers. Great group utility or zerfing build. I hide behind the tanks and sorcs and range from stealth and vacuum up the low health targets. Most of the time I die is when I push too far forward or attempt to 1v1 once I'm visible and I am stopped from re-stealthing.

Be mindful that my own perspective comes from Azura's. No-CP mitigates a lot of complaints about "Immortal Proc Builds" and "infinite resources" (outside of dark deal). Everyone there is on a perfectly level playing field at level 50/scaled level 50, which makes it a good hotbed for balance.

Astanphaeus · November 2016

Derra wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Stacking multiple proc sets is a little lame, but if we didn't have proc sets, no one would ever die. Proc sets are OP but so is healing and survivability and heavy armor. I'm not a fan of proc sets, but at least heavy armor users actually die now.

Idk heavy armor users died just fine before even viper + velidreth.

He's just saying he is completely incompetent at killing heavy armor users without the armor taking away any need of skill for him.

Gilvoth · November 2016

YO!
"i Got's more "Proc" than Betty Proc'er"

i proc soo hard, that it sets off procsets even in bank!

LeifErickson · November 2016

Astanphaeus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Stacking multiple proc sets is a little lame, but if we didn't have proc sets, no one would ever die. Proc sets are OP but so is healing and survivability and heavy armor. I'm not a fan of proc sets, but at least heavy armor users actually die now.

Idk heavy armor users died just fine before even viper + velidreth.

He's just saying he is completely incompetent at killing heavy armor users without the armor taking away any need of skill for him.

I play a heavy armor magicka templar. I am almost unlikable unless a small zerg dogpiles me and I have no problem killing people. If proc sets didn't exist, I would have to get zerged to die. Don't act like heavy armor isn't OP.

Juhasow · November 2016

Ehh I love that troll threads...

Oh wait it's not a troll?

Chuga_Rei · November 2016

LeifErickson wrote: »

I play a heavy armor magicka templar. I am almost unlikable unless a small zerg dogpiles me and I have no problem killing people. If proc sets didn't exist, I would have to get zerged to die. Don't act like heavy armor isn't OP.

Don't wear try hard sets or *gasp* put on light.

If you find something OP or too easy then either change it or stop complaining and take the handout you clearly enjoyed y.

SHADOW2KK · November 2016

Wollust wrote: »

Lol my feelings exactly

Recremen · November 2016

I can see why some folks hate proc sets, as it very much ruins the point-counterpoint combat style which this game has typically excelled at supporting. Proc sets shift the focus from good playstyle to having a good build. Having a good build is important in either case, but when you can take someone out using two buttons and a couple procs, it's not quite as engaging. A lot of folks would rather play mindgames, circle around, use LoS, setup and followthrough, etc. I can't really blame people for preferring that playstyle, and can see that an abundance of proc sets ruins its viability.

Sureshawt · November 2016

Stacked random chance procs determining the outcome of PvP can no longer be considered Player vs Player and instead becomes a perverted gimmicky imitation called Proc chance vs Proc chance.

ThePonzzz · November 2016

Damage proc sets shouldn't be able to stack. Sets like Selene are great in PvE to add extra DPS against a boss, but even there they are kind of OP. I can't stack buffs of the same flavor, these things should be classified the same way. Make people pick. Everyone is just going after the meta for now though. NB burst with 2 damage proc sets is life.

Alucardo · November 2016

Not only can proc sets be stacked, but they enable heavy armor "tank" builds to put out some serious damage. These guys have insane healing, mitigation, resource management, health and now damage thanks to the wrath passive and stacking proc sets. Please tell me again how that is a good and balanced scenario?

LeifErickson · November 2016

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

I play a heavy armor magicka templar. I am almost unlikable unless a small zerg dogpiles me and I have no problem killing people. If proc sets didn't exist, I would have to get zerged to die. Don't act like heavy armor isn't OP.

Don't wear try hard sets or *gasp* put on light.

If you find something OP or too easy then either change it or stop complaining and take the handout you clearly enjoyed y.

Stop complaining? So you mean you are happy with the balance right now? I also don't see where in any of my posts I am complaining. I am just trying to point out something. If I remember correctly, before Shadows of the Hist came out, everyone complained that stamina was OP and depending on how big of a dueler you are, you would know that two good players in a duel would lead to an infinite fight. Now with proc sets, that doesn't happen much anymore (for better or worse?).

But it's funny that you say that, considering you main a magicka templar.

Thelon · November 2016

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

So I'm sure not everyone is against the proc sets in pvp . I agree ...maybe some fixes are needed..but not so much....because proc sets are fun!

Proc sets remove or significantly reduce the skill requirement for PvP - they're only fun for those who lacked such skill in the first place:

Talcyndl · November 2016

LeifErickson wrote: »

but if we didn't have proc sets, no one would ever die.

It's not difficult to kill without the dps from proc sets. The difficulty is staying alive long enough to do that when the RNG gods decide to proc multiple damage effects at the same time.

Xvorg · November 2016

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

Community wanted ZOS to make the pve sets again available in impenetrable trait..and this is a very nice change.

So I'm sure not everyone is against the proc sets in pvp . I agree ...maybe some fixes are needed..but not so much....because proc sets are fun!

I understand your frustration but there are many players that do pvp with this changes . And they are doing well. When something is changed we should try to adapt..it's only a matter of learning .

Why u are not against Vicious Death? I think is the most op pvp set in matter of procs.( I'm not a theorycrafter anyway)

U complain about some empty campaigns.. 1 Tamriel is only 1 month old... Everybody is scattered to get the new sets and explore the new locations opened now with 1 Tamriel..

Have patience for about 1 month or two..and everything will be fine after...

Good luck and have fun in ESO!

English is not my native language.

Just read my first signature

Magus · November 2016

Xvorg wrote: »

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

Community wanted ZOS to make the pve sets again available in impenetrable trait..and this is a very nice change.

So I'm sure not everyone is against the proc sets in pvp . I agree ...maybe some fixes are needed..but not so much....because proc sets are fun!

I understand your frustration but there are many players that do pvp with this changes . And they are doing well. When something is changed we should try to adapt..it's only a matter of learning .

Why u are not against Vicious Death? I think is the most op pvp set in matter of procs.( I'm not a theorycrafter anyway)

U complain about some empty campaigns.. 1 Tamriel is only 1 month old... Everybody is scattered to get the new sets and explore the new locations opened now with 1 Tamriel..

Have patience for about 1 month or two..and everything will be fine after...

Good luck and have fun in ESO!

English is not my native language.

Just read my first signature

To be fair, board games have a ton of RNG. You roll dice usually, which is IRL RNG.

Chuga_Rei · November 2016

LeifErickson wrote: »

Stop complaining? So you mean you are happy with the balance right now? I also don't see where in any of my posts I am complaining. I am just trying to point out something. If I remember correctly, before Shadows of the Hist came out, everyone complained that stamina was OP and depending on how big of a dueler you are, you would know that two good players in a duel would lead to an infinite fight. Now with proc sets, that doesn't happen much anymore (for better or worse?).

But it's funny that you say that, considering you main a magicka templar.

You literally posted about how you are unkillable and heavy armor is OP. lol. Im not happy with proc sets, so guess what, i dont wear them.

I also dont wear reactive, black rose or other trash that ruins the game.

The only fights I had go to a stalemate have been the same since launch, and it isnt hard to figure out which matchups they are.

And yes, I play a magicka templar, but you wont catch me wearing the super pozzed crap you do making videos larping about how OP you are because you fought a group of potatoes who took a long time to kill you.

my group will tell you i spend like 80% of the time in scathing mage unless the group needs support and then i wear SPC/worm/gossamer depending on the situation. If you dont like something, dont perpetuate it.

LeifErickson · November 2016

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Stop complaining? So you mean you are happy with the balance right now? I also don't see where in any of my posts I am complaining. I am just trying to point out something. If I remember correctly, before Shadows of the Hist came out, everyone complained that stamina was OP and depending on how big of a dueler you are, you would know that two good players in a duel would lead to an infinite fight. Now with proc sets, that doesn't happen much anymore (for better or worse?).

But it's funny that you say that, considering you main a magicka templar.

You literally posted about how you are unkillable and heavy armor is OP. lol. Im not happy with proc sets, so guess what, i dont wear them.

I also dont wear reactive, black rose or other trash that ruins the game.

The only fights I had go to a stalemate have been the same since launch, and it isnt hard to figure out which matchups they are.

And yes, I play a magicka templar, but you wont catch me wearing the super pozzed crap you do making videos larping about how OP you are because you fought a group of potatoes who took a long time to kill you.

my group will tell you i spend like 80% of the time in scathing mage unless the group needs support and then i wear SPC/worm/gossamer depending on the situation. If you dont like something, dont perpetuate it.

You not wearing sets that you think are OP doesn't make them go away and doesn't help balance the game at all.

HoloYoitsu · November 2016

Wollust wrote: »

mcurley · November 2016

Magus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

Community wanted ZOS to make the pve sets again available in impenetrable trait..and this is a very nice change.

So I'm sure not everyone is against the proc sets in pvp . I agree ...maybe some fixes are needed..but not so much....because proc sets are fun!

I understand your frustration but there are many players that do pvp with this changes . And they are doing well. When something is changed we should try to adapt..it's only a matter of learning .

Why u are not against Vicious Death? I think is the most op pvp set in matter of procs.( I'm not a theorycrafter anyway)

U complain about some empty campaigns.. 1 Tamriel is only 1 month old... Everybody is scattered to get the new sets and explore the new locations opened now with 1 Tamriel..

Have patience for about 1 month or two..and everything will be fine after...

Good luck and have fun in ESO!

English is not my native language.

Just read my first signature

To be fair, board games have a ton of RNG. You roll dice usually, which is IRL RNG.

reread his sig.

Xvorg · November 2016

Magus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

Community wanted ZOS to make the pve sets again available in impenetrable trait..and this is a very nice change.

So I'm sure not everyone is against the proc sets in pvp . I agree ...maybe some fixes are needed..but not so much....because proc sets are fun!

I understand your frustration but there are many players that do pvp with this changes . And they are doing well. When something is changed we should try to adapt..it's only a matter of learning .

Why u are not against Vicious Death? I think is the most op pvp set in matter of procs.( I'm not a theorycrafter anyway)

U complain about some empty campaigns.. 1 Tamriel is only 1 month old... Everybody is scattered to get the new sets and explore the new locations opened now with 1 Tamriel..

Have patience for about 1 month or two..and everything will be fine after...

Good luck and have fun in ESO!

English is not my native language.

Just read my first signature

To be fair, board games have a ton of RNG. You roll dice usually, which is IRL RNG.

Yup, that's why I DO like them there