Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The PvP was cancelled, but they never explained why the PvE aspect of Enforcers was cancelled.

They did explain it on ESO live. They said that none of the system was coming because it couldn't be added without causing griefing/game breaking situations. (Not their exact words but my summary of their words)

That only applies to the PvP stuff though. A dungeon where you recover stolen items from bandits couldn't break the game if developed properly (like all other item retrieval quests), and there isn't really any way to grief item retrieval.

Edit:
The details that we knew (from the 2014 Guild Summit):

Tamriel Journal wrote:

Apart from fighting player Outlaws and confiscating stolen goods, Enforcers also have access to a fun PvE activity called Bandits Dens. An enforcer will be able to find clues in the world which will lead to different Bandit Dens. They are bandit hideouts scattered across Tamriel.

Bandit Dens are naturally habited by Bandits. Killing a bandit boss will yield extra treasure. Bandit Dens also include chests which may or may not be trapped. Some of these chests will have contraband items in them, which can and should be returned to an Enforcer Chapterhouse for rewards.

Bandit Dens have an element of mystery to them: in-game maps will not reveal the whole den. Some areas can be hidden. It is up to the player to explore the den and find all treasures and rewards inside.

Dominoid (on Reddit) wrote:

there is also a PVE aspect to being an Enforcer as well! Placed into the game will be many “vignettes” of thieving and murdering by NPCs. For example, you may be patrolling the market when and NPC bandit steals something of a vendor’s cart. You witnessing this act, can exact vengeance by killing the NPC(s). Occasionally found on the bandit’s body will be a map to the location of their hideout. These will be well hidden in the world and without the map you won’t be able to enter the hideout (or perhaps even see the entrance). But with the map in your possession, you can now enter and clear this cave/fort/etc of the bandits that reside inside. In addition to the treasures, gear and most likely unique items found inside, these bandit dens are not what they seem. Located within each bandit den are several hidden rooms/sections which do not appear on the map until found! These are where the real treasure is to be found.

Nothing here relies on the PvP justice, but still would drastically add to the "law abiding" side of the system. Conceptually, I do not see why this still cannot be added in the future.

Nestor

Nope, it was me

Guild summit....
It's the exclusive ZOS club where they talk about "ideas" not actual items that "will" be released and on ESO Live in december-ish or January they said it was things they wanted to add ....

There are many things that they've wanted to add that we haven't seen yet. Whether they were at the Guild Summit or not is probably not relevant; that was just for context if people were looking for the source of the info.

None of this even makes any sense.
-fighting outlaws.....what determines an outlaw? Crime, or killing, O k so faction players would hunt down and kill their own faction players? That literally creates a war within a war. So now you'd have to have basically world PvP and everyone isn't pro-PvP so you have to build in this with options. Then it becomes dumb because if you can commit crimes and not be a criminal this also means you'd be able to steal and kill from NPCs and shouldn't be hunted by NPC guards.

If you commit a crime, you're a criminal and need to be taken down, regardless of your faction. But I'm only commenting on PvE here, since ZOS said the PvP won't be happening.

NPC hunting.....
Alsoakes no sense because if you see a crime shouldn't the actual guards kill them? How would an NPC commit a crime that we witness and somehow avoid all law officers and guards but player characters see it and are able to attack. And with this you'd have to attack with attack NPC off cause then you'd become a criminal if you accidentally attack another NPC or guard.
All this stuff sounds idiotic when you look at it with actual implementation.
You get to a point where it's all or nothing so knowing everyone doesn't want a full PvP/PvE world and you've already got options to disable things, it becomes gaming the system or just plain illogical.

Technically yes, the Guards could take them down, but for gameplay purposes you would have it as NPC Guards vs player Outlaws (as current), and add NPC Criminals vs player Enforcers as something separate. Alternatively, maybe the NPCs just didn't notice, and that's why the criminal is left to a player Enforcer. You wouldn't have to do anything with the "Don't attack innocents" setting as the criminals aren't innocent. They'd be in the world with a yellow glow, like other Neutral NPCs.

@Nestor
But that doesn't make sense.
It not fluid gameplay. You'd have to remember what setting and what is what everytime you log in, basically would have to remove any town wayshrines....

I get that ppl want something like this but the game would need to consider just having different servers
So instead of the NA and EU mega server format, our account would need to allow ppl to on login select regular, PvP and or some other server type. That's the only way I can foresee a system like this working.

That's problably for the better anyways cause for all the different asks, we're getting to a point where PvP is conflicting with PvE and vice versa for content and balancing.

Osteos wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The PvP was cancelled, but they never explained why the PvE aspect of Enforcers was cancelled.

They did explain it on ESO live. They said that none of the system was coming because it couldn't be added without causing griefing/game breaking situations. (Not their exact words but my summary of their words)

That only applies to the PvP stuff though. A dungeon where you recover stolen items from bandits couldn't break the game if developed properly (like all other item retrieval quests), and there isn't really any way to grief item retrieval.

Edit:
The details that we knew (from the 2014 Guild Summit):

Tamriel Journal wrote:

Apart from fighting player Outlaws and confiscating stolen goods, Enforcers also have access to a fun PvE activity called Bandits Dens. An enforcer will be able to find clues in the world which will lead to different Bandit Dens. They are bandit hideouts scattered across Tamriel.

Bandit Dens are naturally habited by Bandits. Killing a bandit boss will yield extra treasure. Bandit Dens also include chests which may or may not be trapped. Some of these chests will have contraband items in them, which can and should be returned to an Enforcer Chapterhouse for rewards.

Bandit Dens have an element of mystery to them: in-game maps will not reveal the whole den. Some areas can be hidden. It is up to the player to explore the den and find all treasures and rewards inside.

Dominoid (on Reddit) wrote:

there is also a PVE aspect to being an Enforcer as well! Placed into the game will be many “vignettes” of thieving and murdering by NPCs. For example, you may be patrolling the market when and NPC bandit steals something of a vendor’s cart. You witnessing this act, can exact vengeance by killing the NPC(s). Occasionally found on the bandit’s body will be a map to the location of their hideout. These will be well hidden in the world and without the map you won’t be able to enter the hideout (or perhaps even see the entrance). But with the map in your possession, you can now enter and clear this cave/fort/etc of the bandits that reside inside. In addition to the treasures, gear and most likely unique items found inside, these bandit dens are not what they seem. Located within each bandit den are several hidden rooms/sections which do not appear on the map until found! These are where the real treasure is to be found.

Nothing here relies on the PvP justice, but still would drastically add to the "law abiding" side of the system. Conceptually, I do not see why this still cannot be added in the future.

Nestor

Nope, it was me

Guild summit....
It's the exclusive ZOS club where they talk about "ideas" not actual items that "will" be released and on ESO Live in december-ish or January they said it was things they wanted to add ....

There are many things that they've wanted to add that we haven't seen yet. Whether they were at the Guild Summit or not is probably not relevant; that was just for context if people were looking for the source of the info.

None of this even makes any sense.
-fighting outlaws.....what determines an outlaw? Crime, or killing, O k so faction players would hunt down and kill their own faction players? That literally creates a war within a war. So now you'd have to have basically world PvP and everyone isn't pro-PvP so you have to build in this with options. Then it becomes dumb because if you can commit crimes and not be a criminal this also means you'd be able to steal and kill from NPCs and shouldn't be hunted by NPC guards.

If you commit a crime, you're a criminal and need to be taken down, regardless of your faction. But I'm only commenting on PvE here, since ZOS said the PvP won't be happening.

NPC hunting.....
Alsoakes no sense because if you see a crime shouldn't the actual guards kill them? How would an NPC commit a crime that we witness and somehow avoid all law officers and guards but player characters see it and are able to attack. And with this you'd have to attack with attack NPC off cause then you'd become a criminal if you accidentally attack another NPC or guard.
All this stuff sounds idiotic when you look at it with actual implementation.
You get to a point where it's all or nothing so knowing everyone doesn't want a full PvP/PvE world and you've already got options to disable things, it becomes gaming the system or just plain illogical.

Technically yes, the Guards could take them down, but for gameplay purposes you would have it as NPC Guards vs player Outlaws (as current), and add NPC Criminals vs player Enforcers as something separate. Alternatively, maybe the NPCs just didn't notice, and that's why the criminal is left to a player Enforcer. You wouldn't have to do anything with the "Don't attack innocents" setting as the criminals aren't innocent. They'd be in the world with a yellow glow, like other Neutral NPCs.

@Nestor
But that doesn't make sense.
It not fluid gameplay. You'd have to remember what setting and what is what everytime you log in, basically would have to remove any town wayshrines....

I get that ppl want something like this but the game would need to consider just having different servers
So instead of the NA and EU mega server format, our account would need to allow ppl to on login select regular, PvP and or some other server type. That's the only way I can foresee a system like this working.

That's problably for the better anyways cause for all the different asks, we're getting to a point where PvP is conflicting with PvE and vice versa for content and balancing.

What? How does wayshrines affect pve enforcers? Also he is talking about pve activities not pvp. Wrap your head around the fact that people are talking about the pve enforcer part of the justice system being added.

@Osteos

I understand what he's talking about. The PvE as described requires the player to interact with NPCs in today's settings which enable NPC attacks.
When you do so, you're also crossing the line of what another player considers a crime. As laid out it doesn't make sense to be and enforcer of when doing so, it's only the player and other NPCs that somehow ignore all other game rules for crimes.

The context is that players (us) aren't all on the same sides. Some are criminals, some are neutral, some are enforcers just like NPCs. Some are neutral, some are guards, some are criminals, etc.

All of this has to work together therefore if you're an enforcer in your eyes, that also places you in a category of attacking NPCs where if another player sees you attack and NPC or if a guard observes you, its now a situation for that player or a guard.

There's little context to who is enforcing vs who is a criminal when attacking more than one target hits possibly anyone.

Sure you can create settings for enforcer, criminal, etc. but then as mentioned it requires the player to remember which settings apply to each character and logging in and out enter the player in a circumstance where bounties on them or on others exist. If some players want to be enforcers, great but then others need the option to be criminals while NPCs also have either option. Longterm this all becomes its own game within a gam.

For risks, there should be rewards so what do you give and get?
Is it only in towns or is it everywhere?

That impacts wayshrines, etc.
When you step back and look at each scenario, many touch impart or whole, other systems so unless there are server types, this all gets too much into griefing, camping, zergs, exploits, etc.

FWIW

I and otherd oposed to any form of non-consensual or play-in Pp justice for PVE actiond have whole-heartily endorsed and spoke in favor of a full DLC expansion of the PVE justice content including but not llimited to:
New skill line
New main quest enforcer storyline
Multiple side quests
Two new "world boss" level quests - repeatable
Two new enforcer themed delves - repeatable
Repeatable dailies of two flavors - caravan escort and outlaw capture.
New "hard mode" repeatable

Basically everything TG DLV offers but opposite theme.

ADD new content, great.

Force non-consensual play-in PVP to existing PVE, no way.

At least one staunch advocate of the PVP justice side said they would quit if the PVE justice was added without any change to the PVP.

Of course, at least onr anti-PVP justice player said they eould quit if PVP justice was added INTO the PVE.

The difference in those two is not lost on me.

Before 1T pve injustice was basically on par with time-risk-reward to similar pve casual acquisition content such ss delving, grinding, etc. Delving was top when it dropped set or motif iirc but bottom when just trash dropped. Grind was middle with injustice right behind iirc.

Now, with delves dropping sets each time, many quests dropping sets, chests, nodes scraps etc TG relative allure suffered.

I still do Injustice casual as side bar on the fly opportunity, oddly most often while doing writs, but have stopped almost all injustice direct content since 1T. The other equally fun content options are just too much more rewarding.

After they do finish the gear 1T overhaul by giving 1T style ups to equip crafting, i hope they do consider the full PVE Justice expansion content.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The PvP was cancelled, but they never explained why the PvE aspect of Enforcers was cancelled.

They did explain it on ESO live. They said that none of the system was coming because it couldn't be added without causing griefing/game breaking situations. (Not their exact words but my summary of their words)

That only applies to the PvP stuff though. A dungeon where you recover stolen items from bandits couldn't break the game if developed properly (like all other item retrieval quests), and there isn't really any way to grief item retrieval.

Edit:
The details that we knew (from the 2014 Guild Summit):

Tamriel Journal wrote:

Apart from fighting player Outlaws and confiscating stolen goods, Enforcers also have access to a fun PvE activity called Bandits Dens. An enforcer will be able to find clues in the world which will lead to different Bandit Dens. They are bandit hideouts scattered across Tamriel.

Bandit Dens are naturally habited by Bandits. Killing a bandit boss will yield extra treasure. Bandit Dens also include chests which may or may not be trapped. Some of these chests will have contraband items in them, which can and should be returned to an Enforcer Chapterhouse for rewards.

Bandit Dens have an element of mystery to them: in-game maps will not reveal the whole den. Some areas can be hidden. It is up to the player to explore the den and find all treasures and rewards inside.

Dominoid (on Reddit) wrote:

there is also a PVE aspect to being an Enforcer as well! Placed into the game will be many “vignettes” of thieving and murdering by NPCs. For example, you may be patrolling the market when and NPC bandit steals something of a vendor’s cart. You witnessing this act, can exact vengeance by killing the NPC(s). Occasionally found on the bandit’s body will be a map to the location of their hideout. These will be well hidden in the world and without the map you won’t be able to enter the hideout (or perhaps even see the entrance). But with the map in your possession, you can now enter and clear this cave/fort/etc of the bandits that reside inside. In addition to the treasures, gear and most likely unique items found inside, these bandit dens are not what they seem. Located within each bandit den are several hidden rooms/sections which do not appear on the map until found! These are where the real treasure is to be found.

Nothing here relies on the PvP justice, but still would drastically add to the "law abiding" side of the system. Conceptually, I do not see why this still cannot be added in the future.

Nestor

Nope, it was me

Guild summit....
It's the exclusive ZOS club where they talk about "ideas" not actual items that "will" be released and on ESO Live in december-ish or January they said it was things they wanted to add ....

There are many things that they've wanted to add that we haven't seen yet. Whether they were at the Guild Summit or not is probably not relevant; that was just for context if people were looking for the source of the info.

None of this even makes any sense.
-fighting outlaws.....what determines an outlaw? Crime, or killing, O k so faction players would hunt down and kill their own faction players? That literally creates a war within a war. So now you'd have to have basically world PvP and everyone isn't pro-PvP so you have to build in this with options. Then it becomes dumb because if you can commit crimes and not be a criminal this also means you'd be able to steal and kill from NPCs and shouldn't be hunted by NPC guards.

If you commit a crime, you're a criminal and need to be taken down, regardless of your faction. But I'm only commenting on PvE here, since ZOS said the PvP won't be happening.

NPC hunting.....
Alsoakes no sense because if you see a crime shouldn't the actual guards kill them? How would an NPC commit a crime that we witness and somehow avoid all law officers and guards but player characters see it and are able to attack. And with this you'd have to attack with attack NPC off cause then you'd become a criminal if you accidentally attack another NPC or guard.
All this stuff sounds idiotic when you look at it with actual implementation.
You get to a point where it's all or nothing so knowing everyone doesn't want a full PvP/PvE world and you've already got options to disable things, it becomes gaming the system or just plain illogical.

Technically yes, the Guards could take them down, but for gameplay purposes you would have it as NPC Guards vs player Outlaws (as current), and add NPC Criminals vs player Enforcers as something separate. Alternatively, maybe the NPCs just didn't notice, and that's why the criminal is left to a player Enforcer. You wouldn't have to do anything with the "Don't attack innocents" setting as the criminals aren't innocent. They'd be in the world with a yellow glow, like other Neutral NPCs.

Nestor
But that doesn't make sense.
It not fluid gameplay. You'd have to remember what setting and what is what everytime you log in, basically would have to remove any town wayshrines....

I get that ppl want something like this but the game would need to consider just having different servers
So instead of the NA and EU mega server format, our account would need to allow ppl to on login select regular, PvP and or some other server type. That's the only way I can foresee a system like this working.

That's problably for the better anyways cause for all the different asks, we're getting to a point where PvP is conflicting with PvE and vice versa for content and balancing.

Not Nestor. Me - Enodoc. Hello!

The existing settings would not be affected an no additional settings would be required. And stop bringing up the PvP, that's completely irrelevant to what I'm talking about.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Osteos wrote: »

What? How does wayshrines affect pve enforcers? Also he is talking about pve activities not pvp. Wrap your head around the fact that people are talking about the pve enforcer part of the justice system being added.

Osteos

I understand what he's talking about. The PvE as described requires the player to interact with NPCs in today's settings which enable NPC attacks.
When you do so, you're also crossing the line of what another player considers a crime. As laid out it doesn't make sense to be and enforcer of when doing so, it's only the player and other NPCs that somehow ignore all other game rules for crimes.

No it wouldn't, it would be completely separate from the setting which enables/prevents attacking innocent NPCs. The important factor in that setting is that it's for innocent NPCs. The criminal NPC is not innocent, and therefore doesn't fall under that setting. It doesn't ignore the other game rules for crimes, as you're not killing an NPC with a white glow. You wouldn't get a bounty for killing the criminal NPC, who would have a yellow glow, because killing yellow-glow NPCs is not a crime.

All of this has to work together therefore if you're an enforcer in your eyes, that also places you in a category of attacking NPCs where if another player sees you attack and NPC or if a guard observes you, its now a situation for that player or a guard.

There's little context to who is enforcing vs who is a criminal when attacking more than one target hits possibly anyone.

It doesn't place you in the "attacking NPCs" category because that category is about innocent NPCs. If an NPC or guard sees you, they wouldn't care, as you're taking out a criminal. Just as NPCs don't care when guards kill you.

You would be able to attack the criminal NPCs without enabling that setting. But if that setting is enabled, is up to you to not accidentally hit an innocent NPC when you're apprehending the criminal.

Sure you can create settings for enforcer, criminal, etc. but then as mentioned it requires the player to remember which settings apply to each character and logging in and out enter the player in a circumstance where bounties on them or on others exist. If some players want to be enforcers, great but then others need the option to be criminals while NPCs also have either option. Longterm this all becomes its own game within a gam.

No extra settings are required. If you have a bounty, you wouldn't be able to participate in the Enforcer side until you got rid of the bounty.

For risks, there should be rewards so what do you give and get?
Is it only in towns or is it everywhere?

As with stealing stuff, where fencing the items gives you gold, returning stolen items would also have a gold reward. Anywhere where an item could be stolen would be an appropriate place for this content to exist.

Osteos wrote: »

Sorry but no. There are non hostile npcs in wayrest that are shaking down people that you can kill. The guards and npcs witnessing it don't care. The bandits or whatever you want to call them would be scripted similarly. If the current thieving and murdering part of the justice system doesn't cause griefing, camping, zergs, exploits, etc the pve enforcer portion wont either.

Exactly.

Tandor wrote: »

sirston wrote: »

I think some of you forget the background Elder Scrolls Criminal system it doesn't matter if it's unfair every Elder Scrolls game will hunt you down or will want your head for the first 15 in game hours thats not PVP or PVE that just how the system works. that's why theirs a cool down.

if a PVE player gets whooped by a PVP enforcer, or a PVE enforcer get Whooped by a PVP player you still have to accept the fact that if you refuse a guard and get away or you murdered an npc your still wanted for that crime you should get away with it.

The "background Elder Scrolls Criminal system" has nothing to do with PvP. The basis of the whole Elder Scrolls lore lies in single-player games. No-one is complaining about beefing up the difficulty level of the PvE content, as you say that's what the whole Elder Scrolls Criminal system is about.

then why not make it so if you refuse to pay your gold your flagged for PVP its more then fair and if your cool down goes below the Kill on sight you are no longer flagged?

STEVIL wrote: »

sirston wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

sirston wrote: »

I think some of you forget the background Elder Scrolls Criminal system it doesn't matter if it's unfair every Elder Scrolls game will hunt you down or will want your head for the first 15 in game hours thats not PVP or PVE that just how the system works. that's why theirs a cool down.

if a PVE player gets whooped by a PVP enforcer, or a PVE enforcer get Whooped by a PVP player you still have to accept the fact that if you refuse a guard and get away or you murdered an npc your still wanted for that crime you should get away with it.

The "background Elder Scrolls Criminal system" has nothing to do with PvP. The basis of the whole Elder Scrolls lore lies in single-player games. No-one is complaining about beefing up the difficulty level of the PvE content, as you say that's what the whole Elder Scrolls Criminal system is about.

then why not make it so if you refuse to pay your gold your flagged for PVP its more then fair and if your cool down goes below the Kill on sight you are no longer flagged?

It is not more than fairvto have pve play redult in pvp consequences.

This is the non-consensual play-in pve-takeover often suggested and typically rejected.

Add new content.

Dont take away existing pve content by turning it to pvp.

I could also make that claim towards pve lol why do I have to level my new toon in pve to get to lvl 10 for pvp. its not taking anything away if you go on a npc murder spree and guards can't stop you why is that ok?

sirston wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

sirston wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

sirston wrote: »

I think some of you forget the background Elder Scrolls Criminal system it doesn't matter if it's unfair every Elder Scrolls game will hunt you down or will want your head for the first 15 in game hours thats not PVP or PVE that just how the system works. that's why theirs a cool down.

if a PVE player gets whooped by a PVP enforcer, or a PVE enforcer get Whooped by a PVP player you still have to accept the fact that if you refuse a guard and get away or you murdered an npc your still wanted for that crime you should get away with it.

The "background Elder Scrolls Criminal system" has nothing to do with PvP. The basis of the whole Elder Scrolls lore lies in single-player games. No-one is complaining about beefing up the difficulty level of the PvE content, as you say that's what the whole Elder Scrolls Criminal system is about.

then why not make it so if you refuse to pay your gold your flagged for PVP its more then fair and if your cool down goes below the Kill on sight you are no longer flagged?

It is not more than fairvto have pve play redult in pvp consequences.

This is the non-consensual play-in pve-takeover often suggested and typically rejected.

Add new content.

Dont take away existing pve content by turning it to pvp.

I could also make that claim towards pve lol why do I have to level my new toon in pve to get to lvl 10 for pvp. its not taking anything away if you go on a npc murder spree and guards can't stop you why is that ok?

Apples and armadillos.

First, the pvp 10 is not some new change taking away a prior released option that would let you pvp at 3. Like i said, dont takeaway - add.

Second, i have no prob whatsoever with changes to allow folks to pvp at 3. I would support that change. Again, add options to let folks play.

Third, the takeaway is that right now i can play pve content for injustice activities in several different wsys. I can play snesk slow and get no bounty. I can play aggressive fast and get bounty have that bounty isdues, get chase/evade sequences that are flat out unique compared to thr other content. I can do lots in between burning bounty off with edicts and pardons. But if you get it changed so that some combo of bounty/heat forces me into ovp, then i have had current content taken awsy from pve play into pvp.

That is s must have for some pvpers - that there must be some loss to pve injustice content. ITs a desl breaker for some in the opposite.

Finally, yes... if i am prepared and skilked and choose my time and place right, i can get away with injustice activities and profit.
Slow and steady - no bounty likely.
Aggressive and bloody - high bounty and itsvnagging limitations.

Just like i can go grinding with little risk and turn a tidy profit off animal hides and drops or even mudcrabs in the right spot.
Just like i can start delve/dolmen tag match repeats with little to no risk and turn tidy profits.
Just like i can go questing, though some quests arent repeatable but there are lotsa them.

Well, not exactly like those cux those have no zero none nada longer term limits like bounty and no chance of losing possession already in inventory like injustice does.

All three have potential gear repair results of course.

In all those cases with skills, knowledge, planning one can casually run the content casual repeatable with little risk and relatively equivalent rewards (tho with 1T delving got a boost) where frankly injustice tends to fal in on the low end of reward-time results.

So the answer is its ok to play the injustice casual because its not off kilter for it to be as easy and as profitable as the other casual content vieing for your play time.

But of course, i have no problem with more difficult injustice content being added, like thebheists or sacraments. ADd the vMSA or vMoL equivalent for steal/kill? Great!!!


.

Katahdin wrote: »

If you want an open world PvP game, go play BDO.

Casuals have made it so that Daum killed open world PvP there, so now we're here to have our revenge.
Just kidding. I don't see how the second half of justice system turns it into an open pvp game. It's about single activity that can end up with PvP and only if you almost want it (hard to become a fugitive otherwise you know)

Katahdin wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

If you want an open world PvP game, go play BDO.

I don't see how the second half of justice system turns it into an open pvp game. It's about single activity that can end up with PvP and only if you almost want it (hard to become a fugitive otherwise you know)

Any system where you are forced into PvP with no opt out by doing PvE in the PvE areas of the game makes it open world. Telling people to just not play the PvE content if you don't want PvP consequences is not acceptable.

The original design assumed you have to be at the certain heat or bounty level to be a subject for PvP. So you can opt-out by managing this. If you cannot it's clearly a L2P issue.

We have 2 DLCS designed around doing criminal activity (thieving and murdering), although in the context of the story, you are sometimes stealing from and murdering bad guys.

You must try real hard to get above notorious for that. And actually TG provides a ton of options to easily get rid of both bounty and heat. For free. Just use those items you get each time you complete a faceroll easy repeatable quest. Sounds like an opt-out.

Some of the proposals put forward would force people into PvP by doing the content as designed

It was originally designed with PvP part in mind.

or not allow them to experience or enjoy that content if the have no desire to PvP

Lie. Unless they also have no desire to L2P, but why anyone should care about such people?

STEVIL wrote: »

And here we go again with the no opt-out PVP takeover mandatory clause that gets this nowhere.

It's only mandatory if one is too stupid to manage his bounty or heat. By saying it would be mandatory you're insulting the majority of pve players out there.

if you "lose" a PVP fight, you dont get thrown into maelstrom arena and have to fight your way out? That would be unfair and unreasonable.

Yet doing PvE content is mandatory for PvP players. So why can't this happen to PvE players as well?

Tandor wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

The original design assumed you have to be at the certain heat or bounty level to be a subject for PvP.

Link please.

So you're trying to argue about something you have no idea about. Great. Sorry, but learn to google.

sirston wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

sirston wrote: »

I think some of you forget the background Elder Scrolls Criminal system it doesn't matter if it's unfair every Elder Scrolls game will hunt you down or will want your head for the first 15 in game hours thats not PVP or PVE that just how the system works. that's why theirs a cool down.

if a PVE player gets whooped by a PVP enforcer, or a PVE enforcer get Whooped by a PVP player you still have to accept the fact that if you refuse a guard and get away or you murdered an npc your still wanted for that crime you should get away with it.

The "background Elder Scrolls Criminal system" has nothing to do with PvP. The basis of the whole Elder Scrolls lore lies in single-player games. No-one is complaining about beefing up the difficulty level of the PvE content, as you say that's what the whole Elder Scrolls Criminal system is about.

then why not make it so if you refuse to pay your gold your flagged for PVP its more then fair and if your cool down goes below the Kill on sight you are no longer flagged?

Because that doesn't make any sense at all.

Understand that even if you were to join an enforcer guild (which would be some form of the guard and should require pre-requisites for each region and town) you'd be unable to commit crimes which turn off a lot of content and features. If you are allowed to do so then you're kicked out of respective guards and you yourself would constantly flip between being hunted or hunting others as well as being neutral.

So then the neutral technically should be vulnerable to criminals

The only way not to cause griefing is if an entire server was setup so people choose.
I get that people want PvP outside of Cyrodil but you're asking for a completely different game.

People have suggested you can do this and that with certain settings but all of this gets to a point where the game becomes too circumstancial. I think you and others have this idea that the PvP is a choice but in a mega server environment some things have to be forced if some of these enforcer, criminal and neutral concepts exist.

Then you'll have the other guild that exists so if you purchased the content and started the quests, now you become hunted as well as grouping to hunt.
The game does nothing to offer reasonable grouping for non group content. An every man for themselves or constant interaction of others chaotically fighting and killing everywhere you go, isn't the game a lot of people want.

Most people want the choice to do things in circumstance and opt out in other circumstances. If they were to add an enforcer system and the balance which would be criminal side, you're going to cause some ppl to just quit.

You're cause others to buy and join... and varying ranges of people to participate.

All things considered, no one wants to PvP without balance or some forms of level range restrictions. No one who wants PvP desires level 10's to be put against CP 561's and that's stating the obvious.

You cannot hate players by phasing when One Tamriel intends to bring them all together.
What you desire realistically cannot happen.

I'm not sure how many replies are necessary to show that's a ZOS isn't incompetent on this decision. It just doesn't fit

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

sirston wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

sirston wrote: »

I think some of you forget the background Elder Scrolls Criminal system it doesn't matter if it's unfair every Elder Scrolls game will hunt you down or will want your head for the first 15 in game hours thats not PVP or PVE that just how the system works. that's why theirs a cool down.

if a PVE player gets whooped by a PVP enforcer, or a PVE enforcer get Whooped by a PVP player you still have to accept the fact that if you refuse a guard and get away or you murdered an npc your still wanted for that crime you should get away with it.

The "background Elder Scrolls Criminal system" has nothing to do with PvP. The basis of the whole Elder Scrolls lore lies in single-player games. No-one is complaining about beefing up the difficulty level of the PvE content, as you say that's what the whole Elder Scrolls Criminal system is about.

then why not make it so if you refuse to pay your gold your flagged for PVP its more then fair and if your cool down goes below the Kill on sight you are no longer flagged?

Because that doesn't make any sense at all.

Understand that even if you were to join an enforcer guild (which would be some form of the guard and should require pre-requisites for each region and town) you'd be unable to commit crimes which turn off a lot of content and features. If you are allowed to do so then you're kicked out of respective guards and you yourself would constantly flip between being hunted or hunting others as well as being neutral.

So then the neutral technically should be vulnerable to criminals

The only way not to cause griefing is if an entire server was setup so people choose.
I get that people want PvP outside of Cyrodil but you're asking for a completely different game.

People have suggested you can do this and that with certain settings but all of this gets to a point where the game becomes too circumstancial. I think you and others have this idea that the PvP is a choice but in a mega server environment some things have to be forced if some of these enforcer, criminal and neutral concepts exist.

Then you'll have the other guild that exists so if you purchased the content and started the quests, now you become hunted as well as grouping to hunt.
The game does nothing to offer reasonable grouping for non group content. An every man for themselves or constant interaction of others chaotically fighting and killing everywhere you go, isn't the game a lot of people want.

Most people want the choice to do things in circumstance and opt out in other circumstances. If they were to add an enforcer system and the balance which would be criminal side, you're going to cause some ppl to just quit.

You're cause others to buy and join... and varying ranges of people to participate.

All things considered, no one wants to PvP without balance or some forms of level range restrictions. No one who wants PvP desires level 10's to be put against CP 561's and that's stating the obvious.

You cannot hate players by phasing when One Tamriel intends to bring them all together.
What you desire realistically cannot happen.

I'm not sure how many replies are necessary to show that's a ZOS isn't incompetent on this decision. It just doesn't fit

1. How doesn't that make sense? if you refuse to pay your bounty that is your choice you are not being forcing by anyone to steal

2. Why would being a guard only allow one city why not do the dumb knights of the nine, but in this do Knights of the eight approach, you steal or murder you get kicked out. if you want to be a thief you can only be a thief not both.

3. Do you not realize this ZOS really flipping hates it PVP community? it has done so many things to hurt it and to kill it, No removal of AOE caps even though you can buff NPC's; and before you go "this game got its buff's" I don't see one shot mechanics as "buffs" On top of that PVP in cyrodil is a joke with Proc sets and meta builds. Just ruining the fun its not really worth it. I don't know why PVE players hate PVP players so much but
you have to understand for PVP its a pain in the orc to PVE to PVP.

4. You want an opt out? how about if you opt out of PVP, guards get buffed and make there abilitys double the distance that they are already? Yhats more then fair since you want No consequences for your actions and want a easy game. You want a easy PVE experience go buy Skyrim for $30

LaiTash wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

LaiTash wrote: »

The original design assumed you have to be at the certain heat or bounty level to be a subject for PvP.

Link please.

So you're trying to argue about something you have no idea about. Great. Sorry, but learn to google.

I know plenty about it, including the vagueness and caveats applied to the original concept, the question is whether you know enough about it to be able to substantiate the claim you're making.