If this game as a whole were more accurate to the Lore...

FoolishHuman · November 2016

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

As for the Nightblades., right from the book "Shadow Draining A hypothesis"

By the Glimmering Foxbat
"Anyone who studies the so-called "shadow magic" of the underworld's nightblades is familiar with the siphoning spells, which drain life force and health from the injured to the injurer. The question before the scholar-arcanist is to explain how and why this works. After prolonged study, primarily through low-grade siphoning of my menials and their families while they slept, I have arrived at a hypothesis.
It appears to me that the magical siphoning of health is related to the instant translocation spells insofar as it creates a transliminal flow of essence from the target to the caster. Through the hyperagonal magicka sense, the nightblade perceives the target's transpontine deformation and "pierces" it, and in the resulting disruption absorbs the essence that is lost by the target. Thus, instead of "stepping through shadows" as in translocation, the mage is "shadow draining" from one location to another.
Or so my experiments indicate."

You are making a connection where none exists here. The author calls his book a "hypothesis" and the shadow magic "so-called". "Shadow magic" is not a very unique name and to me it seems that this is still just the standard absorb health spell, just named differently. It is extremely unlikely that it is the same magic that appeared in some obscure mobile game that barely anyone played and that probably had a lot more lore problems than ESO ever had or could have.

UrQuan wrote: »

Not harmed by normal sunlight != not vulnerable to various holy spells (which is what the light related spells and dawnbreaker really are - they're Aedric in nature). Anything Aedric in nature hurts vampires with this strain of vampirism more than it hurts normal people. That may or may not hold true for all strains of vampirism - we simply don't know. My money would be on that being the one weakness that all different strains share, but that's just a guess.

This is even easier to explain. There are no "holy" spells in the ES universe. Dawnbreaker is a deadric spell from the prince Meridia, and he/she hates undead, so of course her magic deals more damage to undead, all undead not just vampires I might add. Just because Meridia says that it is "the light" doesn't mean it has anything to do with the sun or the stars, which are far removed from any daedra prince anyway. This is just a form of destruction magic that is extra effective against undead, nothing more and says nothing of any "light weakness" that vampires are supposed to always have.
Arkay is only making sure that dead means dead, as in a natural law (he is one of the earthbones, right?) and Molag Bal already defied him by creating the vampires. There is nothing Arkay could do about that, he is an Aedra, they cannot change anything or create "curses". In fact, I cannot remember ever reading anything about why some vampires take damage from sunlight.

Ravena wrote: »

If this game were lore-friendly to Molag Bal and showed what his domain is REALLY like, oh hoho boy. It'd have been shut down within a day of being launched.

Indeed, they even changed his title and all. I think they did a really bad job choosing Molag Bal as the prime villain, because no game could ever show what he was supposed to represent without getting censored in 90% of the world. So now he is the "god of schemes", yawn!

TX12001rwb17_ESO · November 2016

Abeille wrote: »

How do we know that the Vestige isn't harmed by silver?

The fact that you will take more damage from Silver as a vampire then you would normally, all undead are weak to silver so if you had it before it wouldn't just get worse from becoming a vampire.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · November 2016

FoolishHuman wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

As for the Nightblades., right from the book "Shadow Draining A hypothesis"

By the Glimmering Foxbat
"Anyone who studies the so-called "shadow magic" of the underworld's nightblades is familiar with the siphoning spells, which drain life force and health from the injured to the injurer. The question before the scholar-arcanist is to explain how and why this works. After prolonged study, primarily through low-grade siphoning of my menials and their families while they slept, I have arrived at a hypothesis.
It appears to me that the magical siphoning of health is related to the instant translocation spells insofar as it creates a transliminal flow of essence from the target to the caster. Through the hyperagonal magicka sense, the nightblade perceives the target's transpontine deformation and "pierces" it, and in the resulting disruption absorbs the essence that is lost by the target. Thus, instead of "stepping through shadows" as in translocation, the mage is "shadow draining" from one location to another.
Or so my experiments indicate."

You are making a connection where none exists here. The author calls his book a "hypothesis" and the shadow magic "so-called". "Shadow magic" is not a very unique name and to me it seems that this is still just the standard absorb health spell, just named differently. It is extremely unlikely that it is the same magic that appeared in some obscure mobile game that barely anyone played and that probably had a lot more lore problems than ESO ever had or could have.

From the USEP

"Shadow Magic is an obscure but powerful form of magic. It was first harnessed by Azra Nightwielder, who was the first to discover that shadow was not simply an absence of light, but a reflection of possible worlds created by forces in conflict. Shadows can be produced by mundane forces such as light hitting a rock, or by more powerful forces such as nations at war. Shadow Magic involves the manipulation of shadows to affect the forces creating it.[1] In this way, Shadow Magic rivals even the power of the Elder Scrolls themselves, having the power to potentially change the past, present, and future through the manipulation of shadow. Shadow magics by their nature will twist on their casters, and shadowmages are often distrusted because of this.[2] Shadow Magic is common around the Hammerfell-Skyrim-High Rock border, but is rarely used elsewhere.[3] During the Second Era, it was harnessed by so-called "Nightblades"."

JD2013 · November 2016

Given that it's 1,000 years before Skyrim, it has no real need to tie in with the lore of the single player games.

However in a lot of ways it still does. The Dwemer are still gone, for example.

Vampirism is a disease. Not traditional vampirism. The sunlight doesn't damage them as it does in traditional folk tales. (Though I'd like to see vampire clans)

I seem to remember being able to change into a Werewolf a lot more than just under the moons in previous games.

Why would silver harm The Vestige? But then, he/she has never really come into contact with silver, so how do we definitively know that The Vestige isn't harmed by Silver? But having got their soul back, is The Vestige still The Vestige as we know them before ending The Planemeld?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm a big, big fan of the lore of the Elder Scrolls. I read it a lot. Every scrap I can find. But it's their lore to do with as they wish. Not ours. Given that it's also set before the main series by quite a stretch of time, and not much is known about this period of time, there's wiggle room for them to do things, to add things, and yes even to change a few things! (How dare they, right?) a lot of things change in hundreds of years.

Abeille · November 2016

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

How do we know that the Vestige isn't harmed by silver?

The fact that you will take more damage from Silver as a vampire then you would normally, all undead are weak to silver so if you had it before it wouldn't just get worse from becoming a vampire.

How do we know every kind of undead is weak to silver in the same proportion?

TX12001rwb17_ESO · November 2016

Abeille wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

How do we know that the Vestige isn't harmed by silver?

The fact that you will take more damage from Silver as a vampire then you would normally, all undead are weak to silver so if you had it before it wouldn't just get worse from becoming a vampire.

How do we know every kind of undead is weak to silver in the same proportion?

Because silver damage will apply the same bonus damage when attacking undead that's why regardless of if they are a ghost, vampire, lich or wraith, in for instance Skyrim silver will do +20 damage to all undead regardless of type, that's game mechanics but still there is no reason not for them to take the same damage.

Abeille · November 2016

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

How do we know that the Vestige isn't harmed by silver?

The fact that you will take more damage from Silver as a vampire then you would normally, all undead are weak to silver so if you had it before it wouldn't just get worse from becoming a vampire.

How do we know every kind of undead is weak to silver in the same proportion?

Because silver damage will apply the same bonus damage when attacking undead that's why, in Skyrim silver will do +20 damage to all undead, that's game mechanics but still there is no reason not for them to take the same damage.

There is no reason for them to take the same damage either, especially when the Vestige's body works in a completely different way than a vampire or zombie.

The Vestige is an unique kind of undead - if they are undead at all and were not actually resurrected by Akatosh in the end of the tutorial. It stands to reason that, if they take increased damage from silver, it isn't the same as a vampire.

Oh and "it worked like this in Skyrim" isn't a reason. There were no Vestiges in Skyrim.

FoolishHuman · November 2016

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

From the USEP

"Shadow Magic is an obscure but powerful form of magic. It was first harnessed by Azra Nightwielder, who was the first to discover that shadow was not simply an absence of light, but a reflection of possible worlds created by forces in conflict. Shadows can be produced by mundane forces such as light hitting a rock, or by more powerful forces such as nations at war. Shadow Magic involves the manipulation of shadows to affect the forces creating it.[1] In this way, Shadow Magic rivals even the power of the Elder Scrolls themselves, having the power to potentially change the past, present, and future through the manipulation of shadow. Shadow magics by their nature will twist on their casters, and shadowmages are often distrusted because of this.[2] Shadow Magic is common around the Hammerfell-Skyrim-High Rock border, but is rarely used elsewhere.[3] During the Second Era, it was harnessed by so-called "Nightblades"."

The UESP is a user maintained site, so everything written there is just theories. In fact, the source for the claim that nightblades are using Shadow Magic is the same book that you cited as a source. And I already said what I think about that. Have you even played Shadowkey? I have not, but from what I read about it, the "Shadow Magic" used there was completely different from what nightblades use in ESO. The best assumption is still that these are seperate kinds of magic with the same name. And some wiki will not convince me otherwise. Maybe I am wrong, but this is open to interpretation and can not be seen as a break of lore.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Because silver damage will apply the same bonus damage when attacking undead that's why regardless of if they are a ghost, vampire, lich or wraith, in for instance Skyrim silver will do +20 damage to all undead regardless of type, that's game mechanics but still there is no reason not for them to take the same damage.

And silver weapons in all other games did not have this effect at all. So what now? It is more likely that Skyrim did something wrong there.

strikeback1247 · November 2016

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

FoolishHuman wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

As for the Nightblades., right from the book "Shadow Draining A hypothesis"

By the Glimmering Foxbat
"Anyone who studies the so-called "shadow magic" of the underworld's nightblades is familiar with the siphoning spells, which drain life force and health from the injured to the injurer. The question before the scholar-arcanist is to explain how and why this works. After prolonged study, primarily through low-grade siphoning of my menials and their families while they slept, I have arrived at a hypothesis.
It appears to me that the magical siphoning of health is related to the instant translocation spells insofar as it creates a transliminal flow of essence from the target to the caster. Through the hyperagonal magicka sense, the nightblade perceives the target's transpontine deformation and "pierces" it, and in the resulting disruption absorbs the essence that is lost by the target. Thus, instead of "stepping through shadows" as in translocation, the mage is "shadow draining" from one location to another.
Or so my experiments indicate."

You are making a connection where none exists here. The author calls his book a "hypothesis" and the shadow magic "so-called". "Shadow magic" is not a very unique name and to me it seems that this is still just the standard absorb health spell, just named differently. It is extremely unlikely that it is the same magic that appeared in some obscure mobile game that barely anyone played and that probably had a lot more lore problems than ESO ever had or could have.

From the USEP

"Shadow Magic is an obscure but powerful form of magic. It was first harnessed by Azra Nightwielder, who was the first to discover that shadow was not simply an absence of light, but a reflection of possible worlds created by forces in conflict. Shadows can be produced by mundane forces such as light hitting a rock, or by more powerful forces such as nations at war. Shadow Magic involves the manipulation of shadows to affect the forces creating it.[1] In this way, Shadow Magic rivals even the power of the Elder Scrolls themselves, having the power to potentially change the past, present, and future through the manipulation of shadow. Shadow magics by their nature will twist on their casters, and shadowmages are often distrusted because of this.[2] Shadow Magic is common around the Hammerfell-Skyrim-High Rock border, but is rarely used elsewhere.[3] During the Second Era, it was harnessed by so-called "Nightblades"."

*states facts*
*quotes fansite*

Smh

Not even the literature in the games themselves is trustworthy, why would a fansite be?

Milvan · November 2016

There is a lot of wrong statements there, I'll just point it out one or two.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

- Only a Dragonborn during this time period would be fit to be Emperor which none of the players are.

AN Dragonborn wins the war for the imperials, he is our yet to be born lord and savior Talos. But there is no rule at all expliciting that only dragonborns can be emperors. Also, the ESO lore clearly states that they are all false claimants that fall as fast as they rise.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

- The alliances most likely would not work at all, some of these races would rather die then work together, the Argonians and Dunmer are a good example.

Why? There is a lot of IRL scenarios where people that where literally mortal enemies allied against someone, why can't that happen in Tamriel as well?

Also, I think ESO is very lore friendly.

Enodoc · November 2016

Just like there are numerous different forms of Nature Magic (from the hedge-magic used by the Reachmen, to the magic used by the Wyrd), there are probably numerous different forms of Shadow Magic. What the Nightblades use is most likely something different to what the Shadowmages use.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Actually the reason you should be harmed by silver is simply due to the vestige technically being dead, lyrus Titanborn even states that in one of the first few things she says when you first meet her that "you won't believe it but your dead", nothing from that point on to you going through the portal shows any sign of a Resurrection, the closet would be absorbing the Sky Shard but that only attunes you to Nirn which prevents you from respawning in Oblivion, as for vampirism and lycanthropy, on a more serious note the vestige logically shouldn't even beable to become a vampire, It is a curse which is proven by the fact that it follows you into death but when someone dies they still have a soul, the vestige however doesn't so what part of them exactly is the vampiric curse latching onto? can't be their body as that keeps getting remade after you die so how does the Vestige even stay a vampire? in the absence of a soul you should technically be cured everytime you are killed.

Vampirism is probably attached to the Vestige's vestige (we don't have that title for no reason), i.e. the Daedric animus which replaces the soul, created when a soul-shriven arrives in Coldharbour.

Silver affects undead. Soul-Shriven are not considered a type of undead.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · November 2016

Abeille wrote: »

How do we know that the Vestige isn't harmed by silver?

Isn't there a Fighter's Guild ability (Silver Bolts) that DOES do extra damaged to enemy PC vampires? (I've not tried it in PvP myself).

As for the Aylied gear, they do bother to explain this:

Though notes about the styles of the leading Elven societies of current-day Tamriel have already been compiled, there is more to say, as the mer, who revere their ancestors and ancestry, have a special regard for the history of Aldmeri culture. The Merethic Era, when Elves first conquered and colonized Tamriel, they regard as a golden age to be emulated. As a result the clothing and armor of that period never really goes out of style, and many Elves still affect the styles and manners of the ancient Aldmeri. It is not at all unusual, even on continental Tamriel, to encounter a High Elf or Dark Elf dressed like an ancient Ayleid or Chimer. The Elves call this practice "draping Ehlnofic," but the rest of us just call it "Ancient Elven" and leave it at that.

Rune_Relic · November 2016

JD2013 wrote: »

Given that it's 1,000 years before Skyrim, it has no real need to tie in with the lore of the single player games.

However in a lot of ways it still does. The Dwemer are still gone, for example.

Vampirism is a disease. Not traditional vampirism. The sunlight doesn't damage them as it does in traditional folk tales. (Though I'd like to see vampire clans)

I seem to remember being able to change into a Werewolf a lot more than just under the moons in previous games.

Why would silver harm The Vestige? But then, he/she has never really come into contact with silver, so how do we definitively know that The Vestige isn't harmed by Silver? But having got their soul back, is The Vestige still The Vestige as we know them before ending The Planemeld?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm a big, big fan of the lore of the Elder Scrolls. I read it a lot. Every scrap I can find. But it's their lore to do with as they wish. Not ours. Given that it's also set before the main series by quite a stretch of time, and not much is known about this period of time, there's wiggle room for them to do things, to add things, and yes even to change a few things! (How dare they, right?) a lot of things change in hundreds of years.

Exactly. All lore is told from the view of biased opinion and personal interpretation.
Much like our history is edited and deleted as any 1st hand witnesses die away.
Even 1st hand witnesses arent always a reliable source.
In fact the whole point of a defence is to discredit and call into doubt any reliable source...to allow....alternative opinions to exist.

The only guarantee is ...the greater the time distance between events....the more unreliable the conclusion are.

I_killed_Vivec · November 2016

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

FoolishHuman wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

As for the Nightblades., right from the book "Shadow Draining A hypothesis"

By the Glimmering Foxbat
"Anyone who studies the so-called "shadow magic" of the underworld's nightblades is familiar with the siphoning spells, which drain life force and health from the injured to the injurer. The question before the scholar-arcanist is to explain how and why this works. After prolonged study, primarily through low-grade siphoning of my menials and their families while they slept, I have arrived at a hypothesis.
It appears to me that the magical siphoning of health is related to the instant translocation spells insofar as it creates a transliminal flow of essence from the target to the caster. Through the hyperagonal magicka sense, the nightblade perceives the target's transpontine deformation and "pierces" it, and in the resulting disruption absorbs the essence that is lost by the target. Thus, instead of "stepping through shadows" as in translocation, the mage is "shadow draining" from one location to another.
Or so my experiments indicate."

You are making a connection where none exists here. The author calls his book a "hypothesis" and the shadow magic "so-called". "Shadow magic" is not a very unique name and to me it seems that this is still just the standard absorb health spell, just named differently. It is extremely unlikely that it is the same magic that appeared in some obscure mobile game that barely anyone played and that probably had a lot more lore problems than ESO ever had or could have.

From the USEP

"Shadow Magic is an obscure but powerful form of magic. It was first harnessed by Azra Nightwielder, who was the first to discover that shadow was not simply an absence of light, but a reflection of possible worlds created by forces in conflict. Shadows can be produced by mundane forces such as light hitting a rock, or by more powerful forces such as nations at war. Shadow Magic involves the manipulation of shadows to affect the forces creating it.[1] In this way, Shadow Magic rivals even the power of the Elder Scrolls themselves, having the power to potentially change the past, present, and future through the manipulation of shadow. Shadow magics by their nature will twist on their casters, and shadowmages are often distrusted because of this.[2] Shadow Magic is common around the Hammerfell-Skyrim-High Rock border, but is rarely used elsewhere.[3] During the Second Era, it was harnessed by so-called "Nightblades"."

Nightblades OP! Nerf Nightblades!

Well, someone had to say it

mb10 · November 2016

Former emporer leovic who now resides as a corpse in the imperial sewers was the emporer so im sure you dont need to be the once in a millenia dragonborn lol
Varen was emporer afterwards too.

The slaughter fish and guards are a very stupid example. They are put in place to control players behaviour in game.
To cut certain shortcuts and to make sure not every NPC is dead or being pickpocketed all day making everyone rich.

Bethesda have already said the events of eso ARE a part of the lore and there are some great stories, books and quests that have given us so much more insight into tes lore thanks to this game.

And you come up with "night blades would be too powerful" and "guards cant die" show some respect to the game.

mb10 · November 2016

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

I'm too tired to go through each one right now but I want to reference this part.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

- Vampires would be harmed by sunlight (their is no reason why their bloodline would change that when the sun harming them was a curse)

-
The vampirism strain that players have is called Noxiphilic Sanguivoria.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Noxiphilic_Sanguivoria_(book)

The most important thing to remember about sufferers of Noxiphilic Sanguivoria is that, as the name implies, they are not weakened by daylight as in other strains of vampirism, but are, instead, strengthened during the nighttime hours.

Why this is the case is poorly understood. One of the more wild theories is that it is the result of some sort of Daedric backroom deal between Hircine and Molag Bal that has given sufferers of Noxiphilic Sanguivoria a werewolf-like love of moonlight.

By night, these hunters are possessed of extreme fortitude and a powerful ability to recover from wounds.

"By night, these hunters are possessed of extreme fortitude and a powerful ability to recover from wounds."

Why do they heal slower then? as far as Im concered all vampires take damage from the sun as it is a curse and not something that is genetic, ZoS's excuse for why they don't take sunlight damage is only to balance it in an MMO setting as has no part in the lore, that's like saying the vampirism cure in ESO is part of the lore when according to previous established lore that should not even be possible.

Well sure, if you make up your own lore then you can make anything lore-unfriendly in your own head...

To be perfectly honest, most of the things that people point to as not being lore friendly are based on that person either making up their own lore based on nothing but what they feel should be right, or it's based on people assuming that in-universe sources are always true and never inaccurate. Which is, frankly, a terrible assumption to make. No historian in real life would make such a terrible mistake, and over the years the Elder Scrolls games have gone out of their way to include things like books that contradict each other, or show distinct biases.

The established lore of the Elder Scrolls games is far far less cut and dry than most people make it out to be.

First of all it's Unlorefriendly not Lore Unfriendly secondly this is not something Im making up, Even dialogue in ESO would suggest you should be taking damage from Sunlight, why are these vampires even bothering with living in darkness then? Lamae Bal herself says that she Rejects the Light so why aren't they harmed by it? that's just game mechanics as far as I'm concerned, infact why do you take more damage from Dawnbreaker or Light Spells then hmm? shouldn't you take normal damage from them if your immune to sunlight?

Vampires take *flame* damage or anything from the fighters guild skill line.

Silver_Strider · November 2016

If this game was more Lore Friendly, Cyrodiil would be more of a jungle instead of an open battlegrounds.

As for the Vestige taking more damage to silver, there really isn't Silver Weapons in the game so that cannot be confirmed or denied either way. The only weapon would be Silver Bolts from the Fighter's Guild Skill Line but as that is a game play mechanic and not based off of Lore, it's hard to determine whether or not this is true. Besides, getting shot by a crossbow would hurt you regardless if you took extra damage from Silver weapons or not.

Dawnbreaker is a Daedric Artifact of Meridia specifically made to harm the undead, so why wouldn't it do more damage to Vampires?

Shadow Magic, like all forms of magic, probably comes in a variety of forms and different levels of difficulty. The Shadow Magics a NB currently employs are probably the most basic level of mastery over Shadow Magic. Summoning an immortal shade to fight for them sounds powerful but considering it doesn't last very long, I feel it's save to say that NBs might not have complete control over their Shadow Magic abilities and are just experimenting or in the process of really learning how to harness said magic properly.

Lycantropy in ESO, while acquired thru contact from a Werewolf is eventually blessed by Hircine himself so you should have a greater level of control over it.

Enough has been said about Vampirism that I won't bother addressing it further.

UrQuan · November 2016

FoolishHuman wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Not harmed by normal sunlight != not vulnerable to various holy spells (which is what the light related spells and dawnbreaker really are - they're Aedric in nature). Anything Aedric in nature hurts vampires with this strain of vampirism more than it hurts normal people. That may or may not hold true for all strains of vampirism - we simply don't know. My money would be on that being the one weakness that all different strains share, but that's just a guess.

This is even easier to explain. There are no "holy" spells in the ES universe. Dawnbreaker is a deadric spell from the prince Meridia, and he/she hates undead, so of course her magic deals more damage to undead, all undead not just vampires I might add. Just because Meridia says that it is "the light" doesn't mean it has anything to do with the sun or the stars, which are far removed from any daedra prince anyway. This is just a form of destruction magic that is extra effective against undead, nothing more and says nothing of any "light weakness" that vampires are supposed to always have.
Arkay is only making sure that dead means dead, as in a natural law (he is one of the earthbones, right?) and Molag Bal already defied him by creating the vampires. There is nothing Arkay could do about that, he is an Aedra, they cannot change anything or create "curses". In fact, I cannot remember ever reading anything about why some vampires take damage from sunlight.

Well, Meridia isn't exactly your typical Daedric prince, though. Unlike most Daedra, she was an Anuic spirit who was cast out of Aetherius, so her powers are more Anuic in nature than Daedric. The powers of Aedra are also generally Anuic in nature. It would have been more accurate of me to call those spells Anuic in nature, but I simplified and used the term that I figured more people would be familiar with (even though it wasn't exactly accurate). And of course, with all such things, it's never entirely black and white.

It's true though that these are just spells that are of a nature that vampires and undead are simply more vulnerable to. That has nothing to do with any supposed vulnerability to the light (heck, Dawnbreaker does additional damage to all undead, daedra, and werewolves, and very very few creatures falling into those categories are vulnerable to light).

Publius_Scipio · November 2016

Wasn't ESO taking place in a time period in the lore where much or all of the happenings were lost to time? Essentially allowing ZOS to write freely for the most part.

Kendaric · November 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Silver affects undead. Soul-Shriven are not considered a type of undead.

That's not entirely clear... the feral soul-shriven are treated as undead (zombies to be precise) by the game, so it could be argued the same holds true for normal soul-shriven and we are just a special case.

Enodoc · November 2016

Kendaric wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Silver affects undead. Soul-Shriven are not considered a type of undead.

That's not entirely clear... the feral soul-shriven are treated as undead (zombies to be precise) by the game, so it could be argued the same holds true for normal soul-shriven and we are just a special case.

Hmm, true, but I would have thought that was because of their degenerate nature. Before degeneration, I don't think they count as undead. Mannimarco says, of the Vestige, they "live" without life and cannot long be grasped by death's clutches, suggesting that they are not undead, and yet not actually alive either.

Kendaric · November 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Silver affects undead. Soul-Shriven are not considered a type of undead.

That's not entirely clear... the feral soul-shriven are treated as undead (zombies to be precise) by the game, so it could be argued the same holds true for normal soul-shriven and we are just a special case.

Hmm, true, but I would have thought that was because of their degenerate nature. Before degeneration, I don't think they count as undead. Mannimarco says, of the Vestige, they "live" without life and cannot long be grasped by death's clutches, suggesting that they are not undead, and yet not actually alive either.

That would seem very much like undeath to me. Also, it should be noted that we, unlike the other soul-shriven we see, still appear to be normal in regards to appearance. This leads me to believe that something went wrong when we were sacrificed and we're not fully soul-shriven.

Savodral_Maryralu · November 2016

There would be alot more incest in coldharbour.

Apprently a hidden prize on a trip of a life time is to Ipswich, United Kingdom. Where all the sinister parts of coldharbour are reality.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · November 2016

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

I'm too tired to go through each one right now but I want to reference this part.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

- Vampires would be harmed by sunlight (their is no reason why their bloodline would change that when the sun harming them was a curse)

-
The vampirism strain that players have is called Noxiphilic Sanguivoria.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Noxiphilic_Sanguivoria_(book)

The most important thing to remember about sufferers of Noxiphilic Sanguivoria is that, as the name implies, they are not weakened by daylight as in other strains of vampirism, but are, instead, strengthened during the nighttime hours.

Why this is the case is poorly understood. One of the more wild theories is that it is the result of some sort of Daedric backroom deal between Hircine and Molag Bal that has given sufferers of Noxiphilic Sanguivoria a werewolf-like love of moonlight.

By night, these hunters are possessed of extreme fortitude and a powerful ability to recover from wounds.

"By night, these hunters are possessed of extreme fortitude and a powerful ability to recover from wounds."

Why do they heal slower then? as far as Im concered all vampires take damage from the sun as it is a curse and not something that is genetic, ZoS's excuse for why they don't take sunlight damage is only to balance it in an MMO setting as has no part in the lore, that's like saying the vampirism cure in ESO is part of the lore when according to previous established lore that should not even be possible.

Well sure, if you make up your own lore then you can make anything lore-unfriendly in your own head...

To be perfectly honest, most of the things that people point to as not being lore friendly are based on that person either making up their own lore based on nothing but what they feel should be right, or it's based on people assuming that in-universe sources are always true and never inaccurate. Which is, frankly, a terrible assumption to make. No historian in real life would make such a terrible mistake, and over the years the Elder Scrolls games have gone out of their way to include things like books that contradict each other, or show distinct biases.

The established lore of the Elder Scrolls games is far far less cut and dry than most people make it out to be.

First of all it's Unlorefriendly not Lore Unfriendly secondly this is not something Im making up, Even dialogue in ESO would suggest you should be taking damage from Sunlight, why are these vampires even bothering with living in darkness then? Lamae Bal herself says that she Rejects the Light so why aren't they harmed by it? that's just game mechanics as far as I'm concerned, infact why do you take more damage from Dawnbreaker or Light Spells then hmm? shouldn't you take normal damage from them if your immune to sunlight?

A little off topic but I reject sunlight in real life but I am not a vampire. Some people just hate the outside.

Rosveen · November 2016

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Wasn't ESO taking place in a time period in the lore where much or all of the happenings were lost to time? Essentially allowing ZOS to write freely for the most part.

Lore isn't just events and people, it's everything we know about the way the Elder Scrolls universe works.

If you're talking about the historical events of this time period, then yes, they were mostly unknown.
If you're talking about the metaphysical underpinnings, cultural traditions and basic geography, then no, we know quite a bit about those and if they underwent major changes for ESO purposes, then it needs an explanation.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · November 2016

AtAfternoon wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Established lore of the Single Player games

No such thing.

Not sure I understand this.
Elderscrolls lore is pretty established after 10 singleplayer games spanning 22+ years.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I don't understand your issue with vampires not taking sunlight damage in ESO... The developers/loremasters/whatever you want to call them give a direct explanation as to why ESO's vamps don't take sun damage: a different strain of a disease/curse. What more could you possibly want than that?

Do you want to now what my problem is? do you know why vampires are harmed by sunlight at all? its because of a curse most likely bestowed upon them by either Arkay or perhaps even Meridia, Why would their bloodline render them immune to an Aedric Curse.

Vampierism is not a Aedric curse by Arkay. It was started by Molog Bal in the first days of Nirn.
"The first vampire came from Molag Bal. She... was not a willing subject. But she was still the first." — Serana, Vampire Lord of the Volkihar clan

" Only a Dragonborn during this time period would be fit to be Emperor which none of the players are."
This is false as it is not being a "Dragonborn" that makes a Emperor, but the Bloodline of Alessia that defines the true emperor's.

" The alliances most likely would not work at all, some of these races would rather die then work together, the Argonians and Dunmer are a good example."
This is also false as seen during the Knahaten Flu Epidemic of 2E560 and the 2nd Akavari Invasion of 2E572 in which Dunmer and Argonians worked together.

As far as Clifffracers, we can probably see them attacking and being just as annoying with the Vvardenfell DLC as they were in Morrowind.

As far as ESO-Wiki and other sites, I myself use "The Imperial Library" as my go to for lore. They have a Time line from Pre-Dawn Era to 4E201. It has been around since Arena and updated for 20+ years with each new TES game.
https://www.imperial-library.info/
As far as definitive answers, welll, we would just have to ask Michael Kirkbride won't we.

History is written by the victors and TES is no different. That is why you see 2 books differ on facts as they are the authors view. Just as Cyrodiil being a jungle could be a mistake on the authors in respect to the time frame. Or maybe that it is because of Talos and Chim...Who knows.
All in all, as a "LoreWh**e", I find ESO Lore very in line with the TES Universe and Huzzah to our Loremaster Lawrence Schick
for keeping the lore believable and in line.
My 2 Septims..
Huzzah!

Abeille · November 2016

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

History is written by the victors and TES is no different. That is why you see 2 books differ on facts as they are the authors view. Just as Cyrodiil being a jungle could be a mistake on the authors in respect to the time frame. Or maybe that it is because of Talos and Chim...Who knows.

There is actually an in-game "explanation" (a theory written by an npc in an in game book) that I am really fond of.

The White-Gold Tower resonated with the wishes and needs of the humans after they took control of it, and gradually changed the climate of the region to accommodate them, as they originate from colder climate while the Ayleid originated from warmer climate.

It is a matter of what you believe, in the end. Your character is a citizen of Tamriel just like any NPC, and your guess is as good as theirs.

Korah_Eaglecry · November 2016

The title to this thread should of been. "Ive gotten my Head-Canon mixed up with real Canon......And I want to argue with everyone about it.".

SirAndy · November 2016

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

what would ESO be like if it were accurate to the established lore of the Single Player games, sure it would be unbalanced and unsuited for an MMO

You do realize that there is no such thing as "established lore", right?

It's up to the writers to make up, change, delete, mangle and massage lore as they see fit.
If they want something bad enough, they can simple re-write history and obliterate whole sections of "established lore" with a few strokes on their keyboard.

None of this is real history ...

UrQuan · November 2016

FLuFFyxMuFFiN wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

I'm too tired to go through each one right now but I want to reference this part.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

- Vampires would be harmed by sunlight (their is no reason why their bloodline would change that when the sun harming them was a curse)

-
The vampirism strain that players have is called Noxiphilic Sanguivoria.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Noxiphilic_Sanguivoria_(book)

The most important thing to remember about sufferers of Noxiphilic Sanguivoria is that, as the name implies, they are not weakened by daylight as in other strains of vampirism, but are, instead, strengthened during the nighttime hours.

Why this is the case is poorly understood. One of the more wild theories is that it is the result of some sort of Daedric backroom deal between Hircine and Molag Bal that has given sufferers of Noxiphilic Sanguivoria a werewolf-like love of moonlight.

By night, these hunters are possessed of extreme fortitude and a powerful ability to recover from wounds.

"By night, these hunters are possessed of extreme fortitude and a powerful ability to recover from wounds."

Why do they heal slower then? as far as Im concered all vampires take damage from the sun as it is a curse and not something that is genetic, ZoS's excuse for why they don't take sunlight damage is only to balance it in an MMO setting as has no part in the lore, that's like saying the vampirism cure in ESO is part of the lore when according to previous established lore that should not even be possible.

Well sure, if you make up your own lore then you can make anything lore-unfriendly in your own head...

To be perfectly honest, most of the things that people point to as not being lore friendly are based on that person either making up their own lore based on nothing but what they feel should be right, or it's based on people assuming that in-universe sources are always true and never inaccurate. Which is, frankly, a terrible assumption to make. No historian in real life would make such a terrible mistake, and over the years the Elder Scrolls games have gone out of their way to include things like books that contradict each other, or show distinct biases.

The established lore of the Elder Scrolls games is far far less cut and dry than most people make it out to be.

First of all it's Unlorefriendly not Lore Unfriendly secondly this is not something Im making up, Even dialogue in ESO would suggest you should be taking damage from Sunlight, why are these vampires even bothering with living in darkness then? Lamae Bal herself says that she Rejects the Light so why aren't they harmed by it? that's just game mechanics as far as I'm concerned, infact why do you take more damage from Dawnbreaker or Light Spells then hmm? shouldn't you take normal damage from them if your immune to sunlight?

A little off topic but I reject sunlight in real life but I am not a vampire. Some people just hate the outside.

Hmm, that sounds exactly like something a vampire would say! Let's get the vampire everyone!!!
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