Which 5 pieces bonus gives more spell damage - Elegance, Alchemist or Rattlecage?

altemriel · November 2016

Hi guys,

I was thinking about my PVP gear for my mag NB and I would like to ask you math guys:

Which 5 pieces bonus gives more spelldamage?

- Clever Alchemist:

http://i.imgur.com/rGc5OJf.jpg

- or Queen`s Elegance:

http://i.imgur.com/Mj0THp2.jpg

- or Rattlecage:

http://i.imgur.com/8gjPrii.jpg

And an additional question: do the 5 piece bonuses of Elegance and Rattlecage stack? So 40% more spell damage if I would have them both 5 pieces equiped (if I would go with destro staff)?

susmitds · November 2016

Elegance is not spell damage buff. It gives you 20% extra heavy attack buff.

Rattle Cage is wasted on NBs as they already get that from Sap Essence.

So yeah, Clever Alchemist.

Reorx_Holybeard · November 2016

Spell Damage values not including buffs like Major Sorcery for your 3 sets:

Rattlecage = 358 SD
Alchemist = 347 SD (on average with a default 45 sec potion cooldown)
Elegant = 126 SD

so Rattlecage wins although the Major Sorcery buff may not be a good 5 piece if your build has easy access to it already. If you want to ask which set is the most DPS then that is a more interesting question and the exact answer is "it depends". I think each set has its situtational uses.

chaserstorm16909 · November 2016

I use clever alchemist because I get major sorcery instantly when I drink a spell damage potion in addition to the 653 SD buff.

altemriel · November 2016

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

Spell Damage values not including buffs like Major Sorcery for your 3 sets:
Rattlecage = 358 SD

Alchemist = 347 SD (on average with a default 45 sec potion cooldown)

Elegant = 126 SD

so Rattlecage wins although the Major Sorcery buff may not be a good 5 piece if your build has easy access to it already. If you want to ask which set is the most DPS then that is a more interesting question and the exact answer is "it depends". I think each set has its situtational uses.

well yes, but does the lets say Rattlecage SD bonus stack with for example structured entrophy bonus to spell damage?

http://i.imgur.com/M8NVmW8.jpg

Reorx_Holybeard · November 2016

altemriel wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

Spell Damage values not including buffs like Major Sorcery for your 3 sets:
Rattlecage = 358 SD

Alchemist = 347 SD (on average with a default 45 sec potion cooldown)

Elegant = 126 SD

so Rattlecage wins although the Major Sorcery buff may not be a good 5 piece if your build has easy access to it already. If you want to ask which set is the most DPS then that is a more interesting question and the exact answer is "it depends". I think each set has its situtational uses.

well yes, but does the lets say Rattlecage SD bonus stack with for example structured entrophy bonus to spell damage?

http://i.imgur.com/M8NVmW8.jpg

No...both give the Major Sorcery buff and you can only have one of each buff on you at a time. This is why Rattlecage is not a good set for most people as most classes have an easy source of Major Sorcery.

jarydf · November 2016

Clever Alchemist if you can get what you need done mostly in a 15 second burst or you want to be able to craft pieces in heavy, medium or light, have 7 traits unlocked and no jewellery available.

Elegance if heavy / light attacks are a big part of your damage output or are an overloading sorc. It is a light set, bind on equip and relatively easy to farm / buy at guild traders besides the weapons that can be expensive.

Rattlecage if you want a heavy set with spell damage and not much else, maybe major sorcery but there are plenty of other ways to get that. Bind on pickup so you personally have to farm it.

Kartalin · November 2016

Build idea: PVP Magplar

5 Rattlecage, 5 Vicious Death, 2 Valkyn Skoria

Call it DeathRattle

5 heavy, 2 light, dual wield and sword and board.

All I lack for this is a Rattlecage cuirass.

altemriel · November 2016

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

Spell Damage values not including buffs like Major Sorcery for your 3 sets:
Rattlecage = 358 SD

Alchemist = 347 SD (on average with a default 45 sec potion cooldown)

Elegant = 126 SD

so Rattlecage wins although the Major Sorcery buff may not be a good 5 piece if your build has easy access to it already. If you want to ask which set is the most DPS then that is a more interesting question and the exact answer is "it depends". I think each set has its situtational uses.

well yes, but does the lets say Rattlecage SD bonus stack with for example structured entrophy bonus to spell damage?

http://i.imgur.com/M8NVmW8.jpg

No...both give the Major Sorcery buff and you can only have one of each buff on you at a time. This is why Rattlecage is not a good set for most people as most classes have an easy source of Major Sorcery.

wait, really, they do not stack?? that sucks!!! why that???

altemriel · November 2016

Kartalin wrote: »

Build idea: PVP Magplar

5 Rattlecage, 5 Vicious Death, 2 Valkyn Skoria

Call it DeathRattle

5 heavy, 2 light, dual wield and sword and board.

All I lack for this is a Rattlecage cuirass.

dude, no offence, but read the topic, I was talking about a mag NB, not templar

but yes, actually it can be used on a mag NB too

Unsent.Soul · November 2016

Kartalin wrote: »

Build idea: PVP Magplar

5 Rattlecage, 5 Vicious Death, 2 Valkyn Skoria

Call it DeathRattle

5 heavy, 2 light, dual wield and sword and board.

All I lack for this is a Rattlecage cuirass.

Hijacked!

Kartalin · November 2016

Because it's heavy armor I think Rattlecage works better on a magplar. BUT if you can get jewelry and dual swords (I've actually gotten _two_ sharpened Omen's Edge swords) I think it'd be viable on magblade. You may even go 2 heavy 5 light for more flexibility on your Rattlecage pieces. But if you go 5 heavy on a magblade you might as well be a sap tank, and using sap essence renders the major sorcery buff from Rattlecage useless.

Realistically though since magblades don't have the self healing that Templars do, it might be better to use 5 Rattlecage, 5 vicious death, and 1 molag kena so you can use destro/resto. You'd have to go 2 heavy and 5 light in this scenario.

leepalmer95 · November 2016

Kartalin wrote: »

Build idea: PVP Magplar

5 Rattlecage, 5 Vicious Death, 2 Valkyn Skoria

Call it DeathRattle

5 heavy, 2 light, dual wield and sword and board.

All I lack for this is a Rattlecage cuirass.

Sounds like you'll lack sustain as well.

altemriel · November 2016

Kartalin wrote: »

Because it's heavy armor I think Rattlecage works better on a magplar. BUT if you can get jewelry and dual swords (I've actually gotten _two_ sharpened Omen's Edge swords) I think it'd be viable on magblade. You may even go 2 heavy 5 light for more flexibility on your Rattlecage pieces. But if you go 5 heavy on a magblade you might as well be a sap tank, and using sap essence renders the major sorcery buff from Rattlecage useless.

Realistically though since magblades don't have the self healing that Templars do, it might be better to use 5 Rattlecage, 5 vicious death, and 1 molag kena so you can use destro/resto. You'd have to go 2 heavy and 5 light in this scenario.

yes, I actuall prefer destro/restro combination, to DW/restro or DW/destro, so yes, rattlecage/vicious is one of the combinations that I have in mind for my mag NB. My NB is only level 49 now, so I have more combinations in plan:
- necropotence/rattlecage/willpower for PVP
- julianos/rattlecage/willpower or julianos/necropotence/willpower for PVE
- for sure I want to try out the bomber build with vicious death and proxi det + alchemist or rattlecage
- kagrenac/rattlecage/willpower for PVP

Kartalin · November 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Build idea: PVP Magplar

5 Rattlecage, 5 Vicious Death, 2 Valkyn Skoria

Call it DeathRattle

5 heavy, 2 light, dual wield and sword and board.

All I lack for this is a Rattlecage cuirass.

Kartalin wrote: »

Build idea: PVP Magplar

5 Rattlecage, 5 Vicious Death, 2 Valkyn Skoria

Call it DeathRattle

5 heavy, 2 light, dual wield and sword and board.

All I lack for this is a Rattlecage cuirass.

Sounds like you'll lack sustain as well.

I feel like managing sustain is not a huge issue. Between enchants, food/drink, and channeled focus it's doable. New witchmother drink for instance. Magblades would do pretty well too with siphoning attacks, especially if they go destro/resto.

altemriel · November 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Build idea: PVP Magplar

5 Rattlecage, 5 Vicious Death, 2 Valkyn Skoria

Call it DeathRattle

5 heavy, 2 light, dual wield and sword and board.

All I lack for this is a Rattlecage cuirass.

Kartalin wrote: »

Build idea: PVP Magplar

5 Rattlecage, 5 Vicious Death, 2 Valkyn Skoria

Call it DeathRattle

5 heavy, 2 light, dual wield and sword and board.

All I lack for this is a Rattlecage cuirass.

Sounds like you'll lack sustain as well.

well yes, but you can either use Atronach mundus stone and some pieces divines, for mag regen, or you can use skills that restore (Funnel Health (heal), Sap Essence (heal), Syphoning attacks (mag and stam restore), Healing springs (restro staff, mag restore), Elemental drain (destro staff, mag restore)

altemriel · November 2016

and what about Merciless Resolve, does it stack with the set bonuses?

http://i.imgur.com/ID1x4Jv.jpg

And btw., how does the minor berserk work?

Build up deadly momentum to gain Minor Berserk, increasing your damage done by 8%.

Does it apply the Minor Berserk for the whole time while Merciless resolve is active, or only after the 4 attacks - applies only for the Assasin`s will (spectral bow)?

altemriel · November 2016

Kartalin wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Build idea: PVP Magplar

5 Rattlecage, 5 Vicious Death, 2 Valkyn Skoria

Call it DeathRattle

5 heavy, 2 light, dual wield and sword and board.

All I lack for this is a Rattlecage cuirass.

Kartalin wrote: »

Build idea: PVP Magplar

5 Rattlecage, 5 Vicious Death, 2 Valkyn Skoria

Call it DeathRattle

5 heavy, 2 light, dual wield and sword and board.

All I lack for this is a Rattlecage cuirass.

Sounds like you'll lack sustain as well.

I feel like managing sustain is not a huge issue. Between enchants, food/drink, and channeled focus it's doable. New witchmother drink for instance. Magblades would do pretty well too with siphoning attacks, especially if they go destro/resto.

yes, this

Kartalin · November 2016

Merciless resolve gives you minor berserk while active even before you proc Assassin's Will. Definitely keep this going at all times.

altemriel · November 2016

Kartalin wrote: »

Merciless resolve gives you minor berserk while active even before you proc Assassin's Will. Definitely keep this going at all times.

great, thanx for confirmation

.

and assassin`s will, does merciless resolve build from the 4 attacks even if I swap to second bar, where merciless resolve is not slotted, or do I have to do 4 attacks only from that bar, where I have merciless slotted?

leepalmer95 · November 2016

altemriel wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Merciless resolve gives you minor berserk while active even before you proc Assassin's Will. Definitely keep this going at all times.

great, thanx for confirmation .

and assassin`s will, does merciless resolve build from the 4 attacks even if I swap to second bar, where merciless resolve is not slotted, or do I have to do 4 attacks only from that bar, where I have merciless slotted?

from any as long is you do 4 light or heavy attacks in the 20s~ the buff is active it proc's.

arkansas_ESO · November 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

altemriel wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Merciless resolve gives you minor berserk while active even before you proc Assassin's Will. Definitely keep this going at all times.

great, thanx for confirmation .

and assassin`s will, does merciless resolve build from the 4 attacks even if I swap to second bar, where merciless resolve is not slotted, or do I have to do 4 attacks only from that bar, where I have merciless slotted?

from any as long is you do 4 light or heavy attacks in the 20s~ the buff is active it proc's.

Keep in mind this only counts light/heavy attacks that connect, if your target dodges the attack then it doesn't count towards the proc.

Patouf · November 2016

Rattlecage and Elegance are not really sexy, interesting, useful =D

mb10 · November 2016

julianos over all of them

altemriel · November 2016

Patouf wrote: »

Rattlecage and Elegance are not really sexy, interesting, useful =D

why not?

idk · November 2016

@altemriel

Rattlecage gives the least additional spell damage as it is the same buff you can get from pots. Worst of the listed sets to max spell damage.

SublimeSparo · November 2016

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

Spell Damage values not including buffs like Major Sorcery for your 3 sets:
Rattlecage = 358 SD

Alchemist = 347 SD (on average with a default 45 sec potion cooldown)

Elegant = 126 SD

so Rattlecage wins although the Major Sorcery buff may not be a good 5 piece if your build has easy access to it already. If you want to ask which set is the most DPS then that is a more interesting question and the exact answer is "it depends". I think each set has its situtational uses.

Julianos will give 300 all the time and can be crafted

So the winner is...

Burning Spellweave. 729sd, 600sd with 8s uptime 4s downtime = 529 sd on average
Although not sure on procing on mnb, woe and inferno an should have decent control on uptime, could hit some nasty Assassin's will's if combined with kena 1300sd burst on demand with no stupid long cooldown. Lol

Edit correcting early morning math

ArchMikem · November 2016

altemriel wrote: »

And an additional question: do the 5 piece bonuses of Elegance and Rattlecage stack? So 40% more spell damage if I would have them both 5 pieces equiped (if I would go with destro staff)?

Major Sorcery does not stack if you're getting it from more than one source. (I learned that the difficult way) You're only allowed one to be active, and when it is it cancels out the other. If these buffs did stack then people would be getting insane numbers out of their builds.

altemriel · November 2016

Patouf wrote: »

Rattlecage and Elegance are not really sexy, interesting, useful =D

why not?

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

Spell Damage values not including buffs like Major Sorcery for your 3 sets:
Rattlecage = 358 SD

Alchemist = 347 SD (on average with a default 45 sec potion cooldown)

Elegant = 126 SD

so Rattlecage wins although the Major Sorcery buff may not be a good 5 piece if your build has easy access to it already. If you want to ask which set is the most DPS then that is a more interesting question and the exact answer is "it depends". I think each set has its situtational uses.

Julianos will give 300 all the time and can be crafted

So the winner is...

Burning Spellweave. 729sd, 600sd with 8s uptime 4s downtime = 529 sd on average
Although not sure on procing on mnb, woe and inferno an should have decent control on uptime, could hit some nasty Assassin's will's if combined with kena 1300sd burst on demand with no stupid long cooldown. Lol

Edit correcting early morning math

Julianos and Burning Spellweave mostly bonus spell crit, so that is good for PVE, but for PVP, everyone runs impen, so I need more spell damage, than spell crit.

Patouf · November 2016

altemriel wrote: »

Patouf wrote: »

Rattlecage and Elegance are not really sexy, interesting, useful =D

why not?

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

Spell Damage values not including buffs like Major Sorcery for your 3 sets:
Rattlecage = 358 SD

Alchemist = 347 SD (on average with a default 45 sec potion cooldown)

Elegant = 126 SD

so Rattlecage wins although the Major Sorcery buff may not be a good 5 piece if your build has easy access to it already. If you want to ask which set is the most DPS then that is a more interesting question and the exact answer is "it depends". I think each set has its situtational uses.

Julianos will give 300 all the time and can be crafted

So the winner is...

Burning Spellweave. 729sd, 600sd with 8s uptime 4s downtime = 529 sd on average
Although not sure on procing on mnb, woe and inferno an should have decent control on uptime, could hit some nasty Assassin's will's if combined with kena 1300sd burst on demand with no stupid long cooldown. Lol

Edit correcting early morning math

Julianos and Burning Spellweave mostly bonus spell crit, so that is good for PVE, but for PVP, everyone runs impen, so I need more spell damage, than spell crit.

In PvP you need recovery, but if you want to do some damage in PvP with magicka character, use these one :

-Spinner
-Vicious death
-Silks of the sun set (DK)
-Spellweave (for DK and templar)
-Necropotence (for MagNB or maybe MagSorc)
-Overwhelming Surge (for small sclae zerg)
-Alchemist (for gank-burst)
-Stygian (best set ever with alchemist or necropotence for a MagBlade Ganker)