DPS Stam Sorc - Now this is CONFUSING

Lukums1 · November 2016

Hey guys,

I've been trying to help a buddy of mine with his Stam Sorc and I just can't see what he is doing wrong. Perhaps you can help.

He has 5 piece TBS, 2 Piece Krags, 3 piece VO, 1 precise dagger, 1 sharpen axe maelstrom gold weapons.

BOW: Now this is what I'm thinking is wrong - nirnhern trait.

His bar looks like:

Rapid strikes, blood craze, crit surge, bound agies, evil hunter - flawless dawnbreaker
poison injection, endless hail, thundering presence, bound agies, vigor - energy overload
crit surge, caltrops, rearming trap, bound agies, evil hunter -energy overload

His CP is 561.

His champion points (that matter)

Blue Tree - 100 points in physical/poison damage, 70 in critical damage, 10 in therm (my guess) pretty sure though or very close to.

He looks as if he is weaving and empowering correctly. But I can't be sure.

Start on overload, caltrops, rearming, bar swap poison injection, endless hail, hundering, pot, bar swap rapid strikes, blood craze, dawnbreaker, rapid, bar swap, light attack, poison, endless.

Can anyone see issues?

16.5k dps is stupid low, could it be lag?

I'm not sure what the go is.

Cheers.

ostrapz · November 2016

Well his gear sets are definitely quality assuming he rocking divines that's not the problem. He should replace evil hunter for trap and get that major savagery he's looking for through pots. The key to stam sorc rotation is make sure you flurry before every injec,trap, dawnbreaker ( new dw ult is more dps im pretty sure)and blood craze. Nice trick to know is rearming trap is boosted by the maelstrom weapons cruel furry enchant but does not consume the enchant. Meaning if he uses flurry >trap> craze , the trap and craze get the full dmg boost, it's nice to front bar trap because it you can do your rotation 2-3times before trap is gone. Idk if he has maelstrom bow or not but even with nirnhoned he should be fine, without watching him can't say for sure the problem but seems like he prolly just needs rotation work, gear looks A1

SirAndy · November 2016

ostrapz wrote: »

the maelstrom weapons cruel furry enchant

I'm trying to picture a "cruel furry" ...

Lukums1 · November 2016

ostrapz wrote: »

Well his gear sets are definitely quality assuming he rocking divines that's not the problem. He should replace evil hunter for trap and get that major savagery he's looking for through pots. The key to stam sorc rotation is make sure you flurry before every injec,trap, dawnbreaker ( new dw ult is more dps im pretty sure)and blood craze. Nice trick to know is rearming trap is boosted by the maelstrom weapons cruel furry enchant but does not consume the enchant. Meaning if he uses flurry >trap> craze , the trap and craze get the full dmg boost, it's nice to front bar trap because it you can do your rotation 2-3times before trap is gone. Idk if he has maelstrom bow or not but even with nirnhoned he should be fine, without watching him can't say for sure the problem but seems like he prolly just needs rotation work, gear looks A1

Agreed, rocking divines that is correct apart on shoulders fair enough I suppose with RNG gods.

We will swap out evil hunter for trap and see how that goes, his khajit rocking 75% crit so that makes sense.

However you see people with 26k single target dps and his on 16k, that seems like a REAL issue with rotation.

You mentioned something I'm curious about personally, you're saying rapid, swap poison injection then endless.
But wouldn't it work as well with light, bar swap poison and endless?

Cheers.

Super hard working these things out on ps4.

ostrapz · November 2016

On xbox so I understand. I waint trying to give the actual rotation earlier sorry for confusion, not sure what exactly you're asking. Here is rotation I was taught though and it's seemed to hold up. Assuming that your approaching boss, and weaving light attack before every flurry. And worth noting that maelstrom bow is like top dps whenever I see people's dps charts

(If your already standing next to boss,bloodspawn test for example)

Flurry>endless hail>inject>flurry>ult>flurry>craze> (at this point you can flurry about 3 or 4 times before you rebuff and repeat)

I'm not top tier in pve but I could pull about 25kdps without optimal traits running the same rotation on my stamblade so I'm sure he can pull that on stamsorc once he gets rotation down, idk if all this answers the rotation question you were asking

Lukums1 · November 2016

@ostrapz

Pretty much tbh.

I think I see what he may be doing wrong.

furry>blood craze, swap poison injection, endless hail, rearming trap, swap

And I believe he repeats that.

So from looking at that his not really SMASHING furry like he should.

ostrapz · November 2016

That would explain the it, flurry enchant for stamsorc only works for trap,inject,dawnbreaker,craze and dw ult. Idk if he is trying to do vma or dps test or what but as long as you always flurry before those moves and use trap beast way I described earlier he'll be good even when you need to avoid mechanics. Your arms glow white whenever trap beast is activated so tell him to make sure his arms are always glowing to keep that crit damage buff up. GL!

Lukums1 · November 2016

No drama.

We will go back in tonight and sort this mess out LOL.

I myself never get worked up with DPS phases not on console anyway. Long as you can clear effectively (your fine in my eyes)

Appreciate the time!

Danksta · November 2016

Thundering Presence??? Why not Hurricane?

CultOfMMO · November 2016

his bar should look like

DW: bound armament, rending slashes, hurricane, evil hunter/steel tornado, rapid strikes, Rend ulti (DW 16 sec morph)

bow: bound armament, crit surge, rearming, endless hail, poison inj, random ulti

rotation is crit surge -> endless hail -> swap -> hurricane -> rapid -> rend -> rapid -> rending slashes -> rapid -> swap -> rearming -> endless hail -> poison inj -> swap -> rapid repeat until hurricane JUST wears off, do not reapply too fast -> keep dots up, keep crit surge up

split evenly between precise strikes and thaumaturge for CP. Could also put like 10 into piercing

i only have 2 precise vMA weapon, not even sharpened, i can do 35k bloodspawn self buffed. With sharpened 37k should be easily reachable.

make sure jewels are wep dmg, theif and shadow mundus, must keep up major brutality and savagery either from pots or skills. Make sure you have every relevant passive maxed out, anything that will add any damage even if its 1% dmg

Alucardo · November 2016

SirAndy wrote: »

ostrapz wrote: »

the maelstrom weapons cruel furry enchant

I'm trying to picture a "cruel furry" ...

Shader_Shibes · November 2016

Is he light attacking between each skill?

acw37162 · November 2016

If he has to switch to his overload bar every 20 seconds for crit surge he's loosing a lot of time if your talking about a DPS test.

That is easily 2 seconds on PS4 every time he does it provided he perfectly executes a block cancel every time and if he misses one and hits a wrong skill 4 seconds

Izaki · November 2016

Rotation issue.

Honestly I've never seen a stam sorc with vMA weapons pull THAT low DPS. I've seen some do under 25k (kinda pathetic nowadays, but still passable). I remember pulling 32k self buffed, with purple gear, heavy velidreth and healthy agility jewelry, only thing that was gold was my vMA weapons.

The gear is definitely not the problem here. CP points are completely screwed up too. Check out Asayre's Sorcerer Arithmetic for spread sheets concerning the CP allocation.

Instead of using Flawless Dawnbreaker, he should be using the DW ultimate Rend, first because it helps with self healing which is very important during a trial and second because the damn thing hits way harder than DB. Swap Blood Craze for Rending Slashes. Do not put any useful skill on the Overload bar. As for the back bar ultimate you could run Aggressive Horn, Negate, Barrier or anything else that supports your group should they need it.
Ideally your bars in a legit HM trial situation should be like this:
DW:
- Rending Slashes
- Rapid Strikes
- Hurricane
- Bound Armaments
- Deadly Cloak
- Rend

Bow:
- Endless Hail
- Poison Injection
- Rearming Trap
- Bound Armaments
- Caltrops
- Shooting Star/Barrier/Flawless Dawnbreaker/Aggressive Horn/Negate/etc.

For a DPS test you could replace Deadly Cloak with Rearming Trap on front bar and then have a flex spot on the back bar.

Ideally the rotation should look like this:
Start of fight:
Potion > Hurricane > Rapid Strikes > Rearming Trap > Bar Swap > Endless Hail > Poison Injection > Caltrops > Bar Swap > Rapid Strikes > Rending Slashes > Rapid Strikes > Rend > Rapid Strikes
Then continuing for the rest of the fight:
Hurricane > Rapid Strikes > Rearming Trap > Bar Swap > Endless Hail > Poison Injection > Caltrops > Bar Swap > Rapid Strikes > Rending Slashes > Rapid Strikes x3 > repeat
Use the ultimate at a specific time (when you are just spamming Rapid Strikes before restarting the rotation). Light Attack between EACH skill aside from Bar Swaps. Its all very fast. Refresh Hurricane as it runs out, which should be during the spam Rapid Strikes x3 part of the rotation if you time everything perfectly. In HM trials you should be using Deadly Cloak too, so straight after applying Hurricane use Deadly Cloak. No one ever said stamina vMA weapons rotation was easy. Fit in Caltrops in there too I suppose.

And now think about stamina DK rotation, which is more unforgiving.

Lukums1 · November 2016

Hey guys,

Appreciate all the input!

I explained a few things people previously mentioned last night and how he should do things.

His obtained 51 seconds on slime in vet 1 1.7mill hp 33k dps give or take.

The issue was:

He wasn't empowering and button smashing.
He wasn't weaving like he should of.
He is NOW light attacking between skills as alcast mentions.

He hasn't changed his CP yet, but that should be interesting!

It was 100% a rotation issue.

Talking about this further my own personal question:

TBS over nightmothers Solo?
TBS over Hundings Solo?
TBS over Springen Solo?

Which of the above is true and which is false? Better arrangement?

I'm smashing out maelstrom with TBS and VO but I can't help thinking maybe! springgen or nightmothers may pull more dps especially as khajit.

I also want to thank everyone personally who has responded to this thread, it's helped honestly both my friend and I a considerable amount moving forward.

Luke

ostrapz · November 2016

In tbs v mothers sorrow I just did math earlier and the trade off is about 10.6 crit with mothers sorrow vs 1kmag, 1k health, and about 18% crit damage because of divines.

In tbs v nightmothers I've read that nightmothers is run by 1 person in trials to apply the debuffed to mobs. I have also read that stampplars don't use maelstrom dw weps and somehow for this reason nightmothers can be better for them, other than these 2 situations though I generally have heard tbs is better

In tbs vs hundings I can't I've done math but goin from running maelstrom in hundings to switching to tbs helped my dps ,I'm almost sure it's better. I have read though that tbs is only mildly better than hundings and gets a good deal better in rivals

In tbs vs sprigGan i think there is potential. Stamsorc with sharpened weapons gives you 5200 penetration, sprig gang is 400 I believe. I've read that most bosses have around 18k resists, meaning trash mobs the pen is wasted a bit. From what I've read in other forum threads spriggan actually has potential for a small boost over tbs but that in trials tbs is vastly better when combined with nightmothers and warhorn buffs since the boss resists are being brought down already

I am still curious to see how people feel 5tbs combined with some of these sets perform. 5tbs 5vo is solid maelstrom build and gives good sustain but I have seen some people drop down to 3 vo for the 3 piece bonus and run velidrethome. Less sustain but might be the extra dps your looking for

Lukums1 · November 2016

ostrapz wrote: »

In tbs v mothers sorrow I just did math earlier and the trade off is about 10.6 crit with mothers sorrow vs 1kmag, 1k health, and about 18% crit damage because of divines.

In tbs v nightmothers I've read that nightmothers is run by 1 person in trials to apply the debuffed to mobs. I have also read that stampplars don't use maelstrom dw weps and somehow for this reason nightmothers can be better for them, other than these 2 situations though I generally have heard tbs is better

In tbs vs hundings I can't I've done math but goin from running maelstrom in hundings to switching to tbs helped my dps ,I'm almost sure it's better. I have read though that tbs is only mildly better than hundings and gets a good deal better in rivals

In tbs vs sprigGan i think there is potential. Stamsorc with sharpened weapons gives you 5200 penetration, sprig gang is 400 I believe. I've read that most bosses have around 18k resists, meaning trash mobs the pen is wasted a bit. From what I've read in other forum threads spriggan actually has potential for a small boost over tbs but that in trials tbs is vastly better when combined with nightmothers and warhorn buffs since the boss resists are being brought down already

I am still curious to see how people feel 5tbs combined with some of these sets perform. 5tbs 5vo is solid maelstrom build and gives good sustain but I have seen some people drop down to 3 vo for the 3 piece bonus and run velidrethome. Less sustain but might be the extra dps your looking for

You make fair points with what you've said.

I can't justify, losing tbs in any situation (without substantial findings). I think the outcome would be ok you may gain a little bit of dps like 1-3% but you lose 1k HP I don't know how I feel about that as most times that 1k HP is the matter of life and death in certain situations.

I think TBS + Springgen maybe a thing, but you lose that flat 5% extra damage which is quite a smack to the face. In Maelstrom tbs + vo is the be all end all in my mind makes life so easy. However outside I think I'm really going to stick with the following:

5 piece tbs + 3 VO + sellistrix monster helm + maelstrom weapons obviously.

Sellistrix is a really under-rated set in my eyes.

3 second knock down aoe, a 5k damage in an aoe radius, and this occurs every 4 seconds. It is a powerhouse.

Keeping in mind the dual wield passive (extra 15% damage to impaired mobs) wow.

PS: This conversation is very constructive. Thank you again.

ostrapz · November 2016

I was really interested in sellistrix but I haven't got pieces to test it. It seems good for pvp maybe but even with that duel wield passive I think velidreth or even Kragen from what I hear seems better pve. I love smiting dawnbreakers cc in vma but in other pve that cc is better off traded for damage usually.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/243441/end-game-stamina-nightblade-build-pve-dps-one-tamriel-ready/p1

This is for a stam nb build but it has a mountain of info with math and lots of stand dps tips and stuff. It's a older post but he seems to be have updated it recently for accuracy. When you have time to read through plenty to learn in there, including some comments from people on rotation and theorycrafting. Etc.
I think read something interesting about rearming trap on page 14 or 15 you'd prolly like to see

acw37162 · November 2016

ostrapz wrote: »

I was really interested in sellistrix but I haven't got pieces to test it. It seems good for pvp maybe but even with that duel wield passive I think velidreth or even Kragen from what I hear seems better pve. I love smiting dawnbreakers cc in vma but in other pve that cc is better off traded for damage usually.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/243441/end-game-stamina-nightblade-build-pve-dps-one-tamriel-ready/p1

This is for a stam nb build but it has a mountain of info with math and lots of stand dps tips and stuff. It's a older post but he seems to be have updated it recently for accuracy. When you have time to read through plenty to learn in there, including some comments from people on rotation and theorycrafting. Etc.
I think read something interesting about rearming trap on page 14 or 15 you'd prolly like to see

Sellestrix is a great tank set with ant tank that carries a DOT every time it procs it is a nice AOE stun on mobs

Lukums1 · November 2016

Nice one!

I tried sellistrix with medium divines (lucky) I do swear by it, running around maelstrom just knocking everything down I think for a beginner it would be an AMAZING set which I hold in high regards.

Krags is amazing for close up and personal ( a good player ) in my opinion who knows about mechanics and knows to be on guard.

Velidreth I feel like almost deleting, so much damage output but if you're not facing that way, it's all wasted. I dunno love hate I suppose with this one.

I'll def read I honestly had a look but didn't read read through perhaps I will now! Will report back!