I am shocked at how awful the 2H ultimate is.

SquattingTurtle · October 2016

2H is supposed to be my favorite thing in the game

I was really hoping for something that could be used in PvE, but even in PvP it is still better to run dawnbreaker for the ability and passives.

I am not alone in my disappointment am I? It does as much damage as wrecking blow. Even if the ultimate was free cost i would not use it.

Maybe i'm terribly mistaken though, have you been able to make it out perform any of the other ultimates?

Liofa · October 2016

Well , that is how it works . For every patch , you read the forums . If people say that something is overpowered (2h ulti) and cry about it all the time , people won't even bother to use it at all . If people say that something is really bad (destro ulti) and cry about it all the time , it is actually one of the best . Welcome to the ESO forums ^^

This is why we have PTS server before each patch . To actually test stuff if they are good or not , if they work correctly . We used the it to learn the resistances of mobs/bosses in trials to see how the resistance change would affect the DPS .

I was testing 2H ultimate in PTS and my opponents who failed to win the duel said it is because of 2H ultimate . But if you look at the game now , it had nothing to do with it . It was hitting 4k tops against a standart heavy armor build .

For your question , no , you are not the only one who was disappointed . I am over my own disappointment already because I tested it in PTS which was long ago and learned with my own experience that it is bad and only useful because of the CC immunity it gives while people cried about how strong it is in forums without actually using it .

So , what we learn here is , never listen to people in forums . Go and test for yourself . I say this because I assume that your expectations were high because of the comments about it in the forums during the PTS . Hope I could make a point . Man , looking at the text wall , I spoke a lot ^^

SquattingTurtle · October 2016

Liofa wrote: »

So , what we learn here is , never listen to people in forums . Go and test for yourself . I say this because I assume that your expectations were high because of the comments about it in the forums during the PTS . Hope I could make a point . Man , looking at the text wall , I spoke a lot ^^

I ignored the forums until i got to test it myself, mostly because noone seemed to have any input on it. Now that ive tested it, i'm laughing at how zeni thought this was ok.

thankyourat · October 2016

The two hand ultimate isn't bad, it's just why use it when dbos is the best ultimate in the game? Same with the destro ultimate it's not great but it's not horrible either, meteor is still better and cost less

SquattingTurtle · October 2016

thankyourat wrote: »

The two hand ultimate isn't bad, it's just why use it when dbos is the best ultimate in the game? Same with the destro ultimate it's not great but it's not horrible either, meteor is still better and cost less

IMO the 2H ult is bad because of how little damage it deals. Its about the same as wrecking blow.

Lexxypwns · October 2016

Here's the thing, the 2h ulti has a VERY specific purpose. It's designed to allow a medium armor Stam dps a way to counter more tank HA brawler builds. You not only totally ignore their mitigation but turn it against them.

IMO, onslaught is a terrible morph because you want to be using this ulti to get people from 70ish to execute range. However, being able to burst someone and gain CC immunity to stop them countering that way AND adding mitigation, allowing your HoTs to keep you topped off while you keep pressure up or brace for a counter attack actually make this a decent ultimate.

The problem isn't the ulti, it's that not running dawnbreaker is stupid because dawnbreaker is BY FAR the best ultimate in the game and honestly, idk if there's ever been a better ulti than dawnbreaker in its current form, for pvp

susmitds · October 2016

Why use it, when Incapacitating Strike costs 33% of its cost, hitting for 75% of its damage and buffs your damage while debuffing the enemies.

Waffennacht · October 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Why use it, when Incapacitating Strike costs 33% of its cost, hitting for 75% of its damage and buffs your damage while debuffing the enemies.

Cuz NBs don't come,in DK form?

On PTS I shrugged at the 2H ult. I did however praise that SnB ult, I've yet to get my stam build to morph it, but the idea of a cheap ult that makes moves that buff debuff dmg and gives you back ult? Da heck ya say? Possible 100% up time...

Oh yeah

RazorCaltrops · October 2016

As mentioned above, incapacitating strike is nearly the same with 1/3 of 2H ult's cost plus stuns the enemy. Then there's dawnbreaker of smiting which is undodgeable and a nice AOE stun no matter which weapon you use . And then again there's corrosive armor if you're a DK which grants invincibility for a short time while makes all your attacks ignore armor, way better than just one single unmitigated hit.

subtlezeroub17_ESO · October 2016

thankyourat wrote: »

The two hand ultimate isn't bad, it's just why use it when dbos is the best ultimate in the game? Same with the destro ultimate it's not great but it's not horrible either, meteor is still better and cost less

False.

Destro ultimate does much more DPS than meteor. All meteor is good for, is pvp for burst. For everything else, the destro ult is better.

old_mufasa · October 2016

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

The two hand ultimate isn't bad, it's just why use it when dbos is the best ultimate in the game? Same with the destro ultimate it's not great but it's not horrible either, meteor is still better and cost less

False.

Destro ultimate does much more DPS than meteor. All meteor is good for, is pvp for burst. For everything else, the destro ult is better.

False....

Destro costs more so you have to take into account ultimate point cost per point of damage.. that's why meteor for its cost is better per point of damage..

Also you have to take into account damage over time vs burst damage and aoe damage vs single target and pve vs pvp.. all these factor in..

Meteor is cheaper, has much, much, much higher burst damage its pretty much the same damage single target as destro staff when you take ultimate point cost into consideration.

Destro staff ultimate, much larger target area, needs to be on target for its duration to be effective, takes longer to put its damage on target but has much better multi target capability, only good morph for pvp is the one that centers on player and only effective if you can stay near your target. and its more expensive...

Is destro staff ultimate crap.. hardly.. but its not better then meteor its different, slower to get its dps out but in multi target fights it better then meteor... in pvp.. its ok if you have the morph where it centers on you.. as if you use the range morph people can just walk out of it.. its good for keeping pressure on a player but if you are looking for a knock out hit meteors burst damage is better.

Minalan · October 2016

I think you're missing the point of the 2H ult.

You get all of your ult back if you kill someone with it, and you temporarily take their armor bonus.

In terms of damage dawnbreaker is better, but it can't touch the rest of that.

BlackMadara · October 2016

You are false in saying that the 2h ult does the same damage as wb or ds. It's tool tip is slightly higher and it ignores all armor resistances. That means it is doing at least 15% to 50% more damage than what you think. Its only mitigated by other sources like protection buffs, blocking, and CP. The 2h ult also does more single target burst damage. DB gives better utility for this type of pvp. AvAvA benefits from aoe and cc more than higher single target damage and selfish buffs.

So the 2h does way more damage than wb and more single target burst than DB. Just gives different buffs to the user.

acw37162 · October 2016

You are terribly mistaken.

The 2H ultimate is ridiculous. It is insane single target damage that ignores all mitigation, gives the mitigation to you, and if you used properly on the corect target AM returns the ultimate cost making it in the hands of the right player the only literallybspammable ultimate in the game.

Rohamad_Ali · October 2016

I haven't tried the 2H ultimate . I was curious and the reactions seem mixed . The duel wield ultimate doesn't seem that great . The animation is pretty simple , nothing exciting .

STEVIL · October 2016

old_mufasa wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

The two hand ultimate isn't bad, it's just why use it when dbos is the best ultimate in the game? Same with the destro ultimate it's not great but it's not horrible either, meteor is still better and cost less

False.

Destro ultimate does much more DPS than meteor. All meteor is good for, is pvp for burst. For everything else, the destro ult is better.

False....

Destro costs more so you have to take into account ultimate point cost per point of damage.. that's why meteor for its cost is better per point of damage..

Also you have to take into account damage over time vs burst damage and aoe damage vs single target and pve vs pvp.. all these factor in..

Meteor is cheaper, has much, much, much higher burst damage its pretty much the same damage single target as destro staff when you take ultimate point cost into consideration.

Destro staff ultimate, much larger target area, needs to be on target for its duration to be effective, takes longer to put its damage on target but has much better multi target capability, only good morph for pvp is the one that centers on player and only effective if you can stay near your target. and its more expensive...

Is destro staff ultimate crap.. hardly.. but its not better then meteor its different, slower to get its dps out but in multi target fights it better then meteor... in pvp.. its ok if you have the morph where it centers on you.. as if you use the range morph people can just walk out of it.. its good for keeping pressure on a player but if you are looking for a knock out hit meteors burst damage is better.

bold

No you dont.

Ult cost only matters if you are viewing it as a multiplr use item.

Consider slotting destro as first use ult. Then having your second ult be the "subsequent use in same fight if needed ult".

In many encounters the ult is used to get the boss/adversary to execute-land and there will be plenty of ult build opportunities before it is needed again.

Are there cases where meteor is better tool for s job, sure.

SquattingTurtle · October 2016

Minalan wrote: »

I think you're missing the point of the 2H ult.

You get all of your ult back if you kill someone with it, and you temporarily take their armor bonus.

In terms of damage dawnbreaker is better, but it can't touch the rest of that.

I can see the merit of the armor buff, but what good is it if it does so little damage? Getting the final blow with it is way too risky unlike the other ults, an even then that only works in PvP.

I guess im just tired of 2Hand not being very good for PvE.

acw37162 wrote: »

You are terribly mistaken.

The 2H ultimate is ridiculous. It is insane single target damage that ignores all mitigation, gives the mitigation to you, and if you used properly on the corect target AM returns the ultimate cost making it in the hands of the right player the only literallybspammable ultimate in the game.

I still don't understand why you would use it though when the damage it does in PvE is so insignificant. You don't need to steal the armor and spell buff unless if you center a squishy build around depending on the ult perhaps. it does about the same amount of damage as wrecking blow. I can spam wrecking blow all i want and don;t have to worry about making sure its the final hit to use it.

acw37162 · October 2016

SquattingTurtle wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I think you're missing the point of the 2H ult.

You get all of your ult back if you kill someone with it, and you temporarily take their armor bonus.

In terms of damage dawnbreaker is better, but it can't touch the rest of that.

I can see the merit of the armor buff, but what good is it if it does so little damage? Getting the final blow with it is way too risky unlike the other ults, an even then that only works in PvP.

I guess im just tired of 2Hand not being very good for PvE.

acw37162 wrote: »

You are terribly mistaken.

The 2H ultimate is ridiculous. It is insane single target damage that ignores all mitigation, gives the mitigation to you, and if you used properly on the corect target AM returns the ultimate cost making it in the hands of the right player the only literallybspammable ultimate in the game.

I still don't understand why you would use it though when the damage it does in PvE is so insignificant. You don't need to steal the armor and spell buff unless if you center a squishy build around depending on the ult perhaps. it does about the same amount of damage as wrecking blow. I can spam wrecking blow all i want and don;t have to worry about making sure its the final hit to use it.

Ever need to save a group and get a clutch rez with things beating on you.

8 seconds of buffed resistances is pretty hand there at that point much more so then 8% damage from flawless.

And that's just one PVE application.

olsborg · October 2016

DBOS cost less, undodgeable, even if its blocked the dot will still atleast deal decent dmg. Great passive for wep dmg, even more dmg vs vampire/undead/werewolf. (did I miss anything?)

Berserker Strike cost more, is dodgeable, if its blocked the dmg is ridiculous. No passives for slotting, no more dmg vs certain races/subraces. (did I miss anything?)

Conclusion is pretty devastating. 2 handed ultimate has nothing on dawnbreaker of smiting, hell even flawless dawnbreaker will end up doing more dmg imo, in most cases.

Lexxypwns · October 2016

olsborg wrote: »

DBOS cost less, undodgeable, even if its blocked the dot will still atleast deal decent dmg. Great passive for wep dmg, even more dmg vs vampire/undead/werewolf. (did I miss anything?)

Berserker Strike cost more, is dodgeable, if its blocked the dmg is ridiculous. No passives for slotting, no more dmg vs certain races/subraces. (did I miss anything?)

Conclusion is pretty devastating. 2 handed ultimate has nothing on dawnbreaker of smiting, hell even flawless dawnbreaker will end up doing more dmg imo, in most cases.

That's totally true and nobody is arguing that its even remotely close to as good as dawnbreaker, but its not trash.

If it were a magika based single target ult that had the same effects you'd see nerf threads everywhere

danno8 · October 2016

old_mufasa wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

The two hand ultimate isn't bad, it's just why use it when dbos is the best ultimate in the game? Same with the destro ultimate it's not great but it's not horrible either, meteor is still better and cost less

False.

Destro ultimate does much more DPS than meteor. All meteor is good for, is pvp for burst. For everything else, the destro ult is better.

False....

Destro costs more so you have to take into account ultimate point cost per point of damage.. that's why meteor for its cost is better per point of damage..

Also you have to take into account damage over time vs burst damage and aoe damage vs single target and pve vs pvp.. all these factor in..

Meteor is cheaper, has much, much, much higher burst damage its pretty much the same damage single target as destro staff when you take ultimate point cost into consideration.

Destro staff ultimate, much larger target area, needs to be on target for its duration to be effective, takes longer to put its damage on target but has much better multi target capability, only good morph for pvp is the one that centers on player and only effective if you can stay near your target. and its more expensive...

Is destro staff ultimate crap.. hardly.. but its not better then meteor its different, slower to get its dps out but in multi target fights it better then meteor... in pvp.. its ok if you have the morph where it centers on you.. as if you use the range morph people can just walk out of it.. its good for keeping pressure on a player but if you are looking for a knock out hit meteors burst damage is better.

You make solid points, but in PvP the ranged Destro Ultimate has many uses as well. Obviously area of denial without putting yourself right at the point of placement is a big one, but also predicting where your enemies want to move to and placing it in the way of getting to that spot so they have to go through it or get crushed is another.

Xvorg · October 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I haven't tried the 2H ultimate . I was curious and the reactions seem mixed . The duel wield ultimate doesn't seem that great . The animation is pretty simple , nothing exciting .

I hoped something like death stroke

kessik221 · October 2016

I think people were expecting the meta which is burst. I find this to be an excellent sustain ability. If this included some kind of knockdown or stun people would be qqing up a storm. I would of liked to see a bit more utility though like penetration for the 8 second duration.

DemonDruaga · October 2016

I like to use it from time to time. Gives my dk some extra sustain when fighting multiple enemies. Burst the wakest down-> exe with ult. Ult full, ressources full. Go burst the next one.

Ofc most of the time i'll use dawnbreaker, because we play often 5 vs alliance it seems

edit/ but what sucks the most is it gets auto dodged via shuffle like 90% of the time. that is BS. Store up ultimate just to let RNG decide if it hits or not

Strider_Roshin · October 2016

DemonDruaga wrote: »

I like to use it from time to time. Gives my dk some extra sustain when fighting multiple enemies. Burst the wakest down-> exe with ult. Ult full, ressources full. Go burst the next one.

Ofc most of the time i'll use dawnbreaker, because we play often 5 vs alliance it seems

edit/ but what sucks the most is it gets auto dodged via shuffle like 90% of the time. that is BS. Store up ultimate just to let RNG decide if it hits or not

It Is because of this, incap should not have a cost increase, and berserk strike should have a cost decrease. Saving 150 ultimate just to have it miss is rubbish. It Should cost no more than 100 ultimate; especially considering the fact that DBoS costs only 125, does comparable damage, passively increases your weapon damage, hits multiple targets AND it's undodgeable.

thankyourat · October 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

DemonDruaga wrote: »

I like to use it from time to time. Gives my dk some extra sustain when fighting multiple enemies. Burst the wakest down-> exe with ult. Ult full, ressources full. Go burst the next one.

Ofc most of the time i'll use dawnbreaker, because we play often 5 vs alliance it seems

edit/ but what sucks the most is it gets auto dodged via shuffle like 90% of the time. that is BS. Store up ultimate just to let RNG decide if it hits or not

It Is because of this, incap should not have a cost increase, and berserk strike should have a cost decrease. Saving 150 ultimate just to have it miss is rubbish. It Should cost no more than 100 ultimate; especially considering the fact that DBoS costs only 125, does comparable damage, passively increases your weapon damage, hits multiple targets AND it's undodgeable.

Dbos should cost 175 to 200 ultimate

SkylarkX · October 2016

Do sets that buff two handed abilities (by x weapon damage) also buff the 2H ultimate?

Izaki · October 2016

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

The two hand ultimate isn't bad, it's just why use it when dbos is the best ultimate in the game? Same with the destro ultimate it's not great but it's not horrible either, meteor is still better and cost less

False.

Destro ultimate does much more DPS than meteor. All meteor is good for, is pvp for burst. For everything else, the destro ult is better.

In pure single target or fights with very few adds, Shooting Star does more DPS, because of the longer DoT and the ultimate return.

In fights with a lot of adds, like The Forgotten or the Warrior destro ultimate beats Shooting Star.

Remember through in most fights there are priority targets that need to be burst down (the Hulk on Rakkhat), in this case meteor is also superior.

Izaki · October 2016

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I haven't tried the 2H ultimate . I was curious and the reactions seem mixed . The duel wield ultimate doesn't seem that great . The animation is pretty simple , nothing exciting .

DW ultimate is OP in PvE with vMA weapons. 16 seconds of insane damage while You are pretty much immortal? Hell yeah!