Espionage 101

Anazasi · October 2016

I was reading the locked thread by a player complaining about spies and decided I needed to open this up again but provide the basic how to so everyone can understand whats really going on. First off, the in game mechanic that show population has been suspected broken for a very long time. No idea if it is or isn't but there is certainly no correlation between lock and activity. This has 0 impact on espionage in game.

To be come a spy you need to have cross faction characters capable of entering Cryodill. Then you need to have a second PC / lap top that you can easily monitor why you are playing on your main character. Next, you need to belong to a semi prominent PVP guild that will accept you as member and place a value on the intelligence information you provide. Next you must have the following add on called Cryohud installed and working on your spy account. All you have to do now is log into your little spy set yourself up at a nice location and monitor the screen. What you are looking for is the following:

1. Report all Cryohud activity. Any time your spy faction drops siege you must report it immediately. Your primary faction have very little time to respond to the attack and transit is key. if the keep flags you are on hoof and the more time the responding faction wastes the more chance of failure.
2. Report known guild activity. Information about opposition or group movement is good intel. It's always nice to know who the other groups are and yes every faction at some point will say in zone chat movements or objectives especially when they have suffered several failed attempts.
3. Report all salty zone chat comments (paraphrase is always nice at this point) You do this for the morale of your group. Your primary faction has been fighting little fires all night long and its rewarding to hear about the other factions frustration.
4. absolutely do not ever say or use ZONE chat. You are there to gather intelligence not participate.

Spies are not real and they do not exists in game. Zone chat can be toxic and this game is as much about physiological warfare as good group composition. All factions fight each other and no alliances exists. Bad things role down hill and unfortunately the south is at the bottom of the hill.

Be aware there are key locations at all keeps in cryodill that siege will not appear on cryohud. These locations can support up to 10 ballista and hit outer walls.

I have provided the basics. Anyone can do it and I am almost certain it is being done without question. There is real value in this information. Just so you can understand the value here is the secret: it takes 4 minutes now to take a undefended keep with a small group. It takes less that 1 minute to flag a keep before it shows on the factions radar. If your group has an extra minute to respond that means you have a full 4 minutes to get from where you are to where you need to be. It takes 1 minute (average) to travel from one major keep to another say roe to alessia or BB to BM on hoof as a group. If your group is working a specific area you can respond to all attacks before the outer is down. Timing and speed is critical and good intel buys you more time.

Enjoy......

Ghostbane · October 2016

If you're going down the second PC route, you also need to purchase a new account and level a toon to 10.

Shouting out in caps "5 DC SIEGE ON BLEAKERS" in ETU is much more entertaining and cost efficient.

Anazasi · October 2016

oh i didnt say i was going to do that im just saying there are some very very dedicated players who are already running such wonderful things.

Manoekin · October 2016

Ghostbane wrote: »

If you're going down the second PC route, you also need to purchase a new account and level a toon to 10.

Shouting out in caps "5 DC SIEGE ON BLEAKERS" in ETU is much more entertaining and cost efficient.

Damn why haven't I tried this yet.

Chuga_Rei · October 2016

That feel when you are afraid to join etu because you won't live up to expectations and sling enough shekels

Manoekin · October 2016

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

That feel when you are afraid to join etu because you won't live up to expectations and sling enough shekels

It's a great guild and it doesn't require you to be a top trader, though that certainly helps. If you're interested talk to an officer. Doesn't hurt to ask.

Rohamad_Ali · October 2016

Just my opinion of course . Too much drama and energy for a video game but you have fun with it ok .

BooskySG · October 2016

Thread content matches the title. If anyone wants advanced lessons, hmu with 20k gold in the mail. I'll teach you all about the long con,deflection,social engineering,etc. Or you can get free lessons if you find me and whisper me on my new 561+ CP magicka character. I'm in one of the top PvP guilds, not EP side either

AhPook_Is_Here · October 2016

That's a pretty try-hard plan (2 accounts, 2 computers and willingness to waste time not playing your game to try and give your friends an advantage over something that doesn't matter much, the map). For a very casual mmo, competing over a segment of pvp that likely less than half the people pvping even care about, that's a lot of effort. If you are willing to go though that to feel some e-dominance or something, all the power to you, brother.

Drummerx04 · October 2016

Or you just find a sad and poor individual and offer to pay them some gold if they provide good intel, that would probably be the most straight forward way to do it.

Anazasi · October 2016

oh boys and girls, I'm just telling you how it's done or how you can do it. no one needs to offer gold to players or other incentives to get someone to do it that actually is the easy part. Many of you think well its just a game so why be so serious; well players are not being too serious, they just want to win and they see opportunity where others don't. I've been at this for a long time (playing PVP in ESO) and the only constant in this game is response time. There was a time when a 5 min keep take was fast and very possible, but now it's 4 min easy. Without intel on when siege is dropped, you have from the time you notice the keep flag to the time they are on the flags and flipping just under 3 mins to respond. If you are 3 keeps away forget it the fight is over and all you have left to do is retake it. The farming meta has moved from towers to keeps and if you don't believe that than you need to play a little more and watch what some factions are doing.

All group leaders need to be aware of how fast the map can change, how long it takes your group to respond and more importantly how organized your faction is when you are playing. If you don't have a grasp on speed and time within cryodill you need to work a little harder on leading. I know it took me a while to learn it. I had to measure the time it took going from keep to keep and other locations. I had to push groups to siege from different locations with various numbers and time it out just to know what is possible. We even spent several days on PTS roaming around the map looking for secluded spots around keeps that offered opportunity to flag the outer without appearing on cryohud. Is PVP that serious to players. Well I think you can figure that out for yourself when min maxers are trying to squeeze 1 extra % out of their build. Players who PVP take as much pride in their guild / group and ability as PVE players take in trial runs. We are a special breed of players, who play to win. We are extremists who push the limits of the game (I draw the line at cheating or taking advantage of some cheesey mechanic that is exploitable). I wish I could say PVP players are the majority of the population of this game, but I can not. But you can absolutely take it to the bank, that we are a die hard, dedicated, smart and very vocal segment that should be listened by ZOS.

so to summarize this for those who hate my long winded rants; Espionage happens, it's easy to do, doesn't cost anything (free to play+ electricity). ZOS has clearly set president that allows for it. It does provide meaningful information that directly impacts a gaming session. Oh and PVP players are serious about ESO PVP. Guess most of us are that type A personality.

Akotosh bless you all, now get off my lawn.

Celas_Dranacea · October 2016

The part I don't like about spying is that it makes you somewhat suspicious of anybody in your pvp guild that sometimes play on opposing factions. Im inclined to be in a guild with open doors. It's nice to welcome folks and have more communication between factions, be one big family. But thinking about the "long con" - that one person that joins your guild to deceive you and your teammates - kinda spoils this.

One addon I've been alerted to recently is Shissu's Guild Tools - among other things it allows you to see what characters your guildies have logged on with over time and what factions those characters are from. It makes it easier to track who is PVPing on opposing factions....

Once you discover a pattern you can suss out whether a particular person is a spy or just a friendly, cross faction player.

Anyhow, spying is not for me. It's actually kind of a cool aspect of pvp, but personally I would hate to alienate any of the cool "enemy" players I come across since they can be people I may enjoy getting to know and become friends with.

Anazasi · October 2016

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

The part I don't like about spying is that it makes you somewhat suspicious of anybody in your pvp guild that sometimes play on opposing factions. Im inclined to be in a guild with open doors. It's nice to welcome folks and have more communication between factions, be one big family. But thinking about the "long con" - that one person that joins your guild to deceive you and your teammates - kinda spoils this.

One addon I've been alerted to recently is Shissu's Guild Tools - among other things it allows you to see what characters your guildies have logged on with over time and what factions those characters are from. It makes it easier to track who is PVPing on opposing factions....

Once you discover a pattern you can suss out whether a particular person is a spy or just a friendly, cross faction player.

Anyhow, spying is not for me. It's actually kind of a cool aspect of pvp, but personally I would hate to alienate any of the cool "enemy" players I come across since they can be people I may enjoy getting to know and become friends with.

Yes you raise several good points and I do agree with you on many of them. Guild tools is a really good add-on and I do use it to monitor the guild. The type of spying you are referring to is not the type of "spying" I would use. That type has one purpose and one purpose only: to destroy a guild from within. I have always been very careful about recruiting multi faction players but should someone turn from the "dark side" and be willing to use their experience and knowledge for the Dominion..... I hear the Queen would be most gracious. Lets face it Raz isn't only a member of the Kitty club he's the president.......

ManDraKE · October 2016

Spies is just one of the things that the Zerg-guilds invent to convince themselves that they are doing something more0 deep than just zerging down the opposition, just like their "tactics".

Celas_Dranacea · October 2016

Anazasi wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

The part I don't like about spying is that it makes you somewhat suspicious of anybody in your pvp guild that sometimes play on opposing factions. Im inclined to be in a guild with open doors. It's nice to welcome folks and have more communication between factions, be one big family. But thinking about the "long con" - that one person that joins your guild to deceive you and your teammates - kinda spoils this.

One addon I've been alerted to recently is Shissu's Guild Tools - among other things it allows you to see what characters your guildies have logged on with over time and what factions those characters are from. It makes it easier to track who is PVPing on opposing factions....

Once you discover a pattern you can suss out whether a particular person is a spy or just a friendly, cross faction player.

Anyhow, spying is not for me. It's actually kind of a cool aspect of pvp, but personally I would hate to alienate any of the cool "enemy" players I come across since they can be people I may enjoy getting to know and become friends with.

Yes you raise several good points and I do agree with you on many of them. Guild tools is a really good add-on and I do use it to monitor the guild. The type of spying you are referring to is not the type of "spying" I would use. That type has one purpose and one purpose only: to destroy a guild from within. I have always been very careful about recruiting multi faction players but should someone turn from the "dark side" and be willing to use their experience and knowledge for the Dominion..... I hear the Queen would be most gracious. Lets face it Raz isn't only a member of the Kitty club he's the president.......

Yeah I think what you described about response time is on point - if I happened to have a second PC near at hand I might even try that myself since these pesky EP and DC keep sneakin' up on us. Meanwhile, yeah any EP / DC converts to AD are very much welcome to join us! Queen Aryenne's loving embrace is waiting for you on the other side.

God_flakes · October 2016

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

The part I don't like about spying is that it makes you somewhat suspicious of anybody in your pvp guild that sometimes play on opposing factions. Im inclined to be in a guild with open doors. It's nice to welcome folks and have more communication between factions, be one big family. But thinking about the "long con" - that one person that joins your guild to deceive you and your teammates - kinda spoils this.

One addon I've been alerted to recently is Shissu's Guild Tools - among other things it allows you to see what characters your guildies have logged on with over time and what factions those characters are from. It makes it easier to track who is PVPing on opposing factions....

Once you discover a pattern you can suss out whether a particular person is a spy or just a friendly, cross faction player.

Anyhow, spying is not for me. It's actually kind of a cool aspect of pvp, but personally I would hate to alienate any of the cool "enemy" players I come across since they can be people I may enjoy getting to know and become friends with.

Yes you raise several good points and I do agree with you on many of them. Guild tools is a really good add-on and I do use it to monitor the guild. The type of spying you are referring to is not the type of "spying" I would use. That type has one purpose and one purpose only: to destroy a guild from within. I have always been very careful about recruiting multi faction players but should someone turn from the "dark side" and be willing to use their experience and knowledge for the Dominion..... I hear the Queen would be most gracious. Lets face it Raz isn't only a member of the Kitty club he's the president.......

Yeah I think what you described about response time is on point - if I happened to have a second PC near at hand I might even try that myself since these pesky EP and DC keep sneakin' up on us. Meanwhile, yeah any EP / DC converts to AD are very much welcome to join us! Queen Aryenne's loving embrace is waiting for you on the other side.

I tried AD for a few weeks. I found them to be as boring as their queen. Sorry.

Celas_Dranacea · October 2016

God_flakes wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

The part I don't like about spying is that it makes you somewhat suspicious of anybody in your pvp guild that sometimes play on opposing factions. Im inclined to be in a guild with open doors. It's nice to welcome folks and have more communication between factions, be one big family. But thinking about the "long con" - that one person that joins your guild to deceive you and your teammates - kinda spoils this.

One addon I've been alerted to recently is Shissu's Guild Tools - among other things it allows you to see what characters your guildies have logged on with over time and what factions those characters are from. It makes it easier to track who is PVPing on opposing factions....

Once you discover a pattern you can suss out whether a particular person is a spy or just a friendly, cross faction player.

Anyhow, spying is not for me. It's actually kind of a cool aspect of pvp, but personally I would hate to alienate any of the cool "enemy" players I come across since they can be people I may enjoy getting to know and become friends with.

Yes you raise several good points and I do agree with you on many of them. Guild tools is a really good add-on and I do use it to monitor the guild. The type of spying you are referring to is not the type of "spying" I would use. That type has one purpose and one purpose only: to destroy a guild from within. I have always been very careful about recruiting multi faction players but should someone turn from the "dark side" and be willing to use their experience and knowledge for the Dominion..... I hear the Queen would be most gracious. Lets face it Raz isn't only a member of the Kitty club he's the president.......

Yeah I think what you described about response time is on point - if I happened to have a second PC near at hand I might even try that myself since these pesky EP and DC keep sneakin' up on us. Meanwhile, yeah any EP / DC converts to AD are very much welcome to join us! Queen Aryenne's loving embrace is waiting for you on the other side.

I tried AD for a few weeks. I found them to be as boring as their queen. Sorry.

Yea AD does get kinda dull when there's no drama and all anyone ever does is try to work together and be supportive teammates. It's like we're the Ned Flanders family or something.

ataggs · October 2016

So my peeps are clear, I don't monitor your movements or who you are logged into and when. If you are a ***, we will figure that out soon enough. If my guild is too big to know who is in it, then it is too big. If you have friends on other factions that you want to run with now and then have fun and we will see you when you get back.

mchermie · October 2016

This is funny. And sad. Mostly sad
"Spies" have never been and will never be a problem for cyro

Enslaved · October 2016

I think that spying is disgusting.

Crown · October 2016

I don't believe that spying actually accomplishes very much. Most of the time when playing, I want good fights with a good number of opponents from whom we can make a lot of points. If there are too many who know where we are, that's fine - we won't take a keep, we'll just take a resource and kill them as they come. There are often opponents riding the walls at their keeps, so they know when siege starts anyway.

Anazasi · October 2016

ManDraKE wrote: »

Spies is just one of the things that the Zerg-guilds invent to convince themselves that they are doing something more0 deep than just zerging down the opposition, just like their "tactics".

i seriously hope you witness the dc blobb that rolls aroud 40 deep pretending to be good.

Crown wrote: »

I don't believe that spying actually accomplishes very much. Most of the time when playing, I want good fights with a good number of opponents from whom we can make a lot of points. If there are too many who know where we are, that's fine - we won't take a keep, we'll just take a resource and kill them as they come. There are often opponents riding the walls at their keeps, so they know when siege starts anyway.

Yes the numbers of watchers in keeps these days has risen greatly. Unfortunately I think that only applies to AD on NA TF. EP probably true also but that because they don't hold a lot of keeps. But DC oh the stacking blob, if there was a faction that has has a single mind it would be the realm of blue berries.