World Bosses and Duelling in Towns, the Pitfalls of One Tamriel

Digiman · October 2016

AuldWolf wrote: »

I don't agree with what you've done to world bosses (now group bosses). I really don't. I don't like the disruptive duelling in towns, either.

I'm a little fed up of changes like this. Changes to appeal to intentionally disruptive PvP players, and changes to appeal to the hardcore. Changes to appeal to less than 5~ per cent of the overall playerbase. Most of the people playing this game are going to be doing so either solo PvE, or in a group of 2-3 PvE. These are the people with subscriptions. These are the roleplayers who regularly buy from the crown store. And you're alienating them with the changes you're making.

I'm worried ZOS is out of touch. It's the same kind of out of touch that Champions Online and Battleborn suffered, which killed both of those games. No, really, they're both ghost towns now. Don't take my word for it, though:

Champions Online: http://steamcharts.com/app/9880
Battleborn: http://steamcharts.com/app/394230

ESO is doing the same thing. When I left to take a break, ESO had around 5-600~ players a day. Now it has 3-4,000~ players a day. I can guess why. And again, don't take my word for it:

ESO then: https://web.archive.org/web/20160111202754/http://steamcharts.com/app/306130
ESO now: http://steamcharts.com/app/306130

The changes ESO is making now mimic the changes that Battleborn and Champions Online made. They appealed to PvP players and hardcore PvE players. There's nothing wrong with those groups, it's just that they aren't the majority. And they certainly aren't cash shop buyers. Changing things to suit these minorities will cost you population, and that will cost you money (rather than make you money). Every single change like this will cost you population and money. These are really silly choices to make. I don't want to see ESO go down the same terrible road that Champions Online did, but I see so many parallels that it's uncanny. No, it's frightening.

Changes like these will not only kill off the population, but it'll also lose ESO its subscribers and crown store buyers. The more you appeal to tiny minorities over your core demographic (95~ per cent of your players), the more you risk just losing everything and becoming a ghost town.

The Steam Charts numbers don't lie.

I really hope that ZOS will listen, otherwise no amount of lockboxes will save ESO. And hey, guess what? Champions Online also tried lockboxes to save itself after making all of these selfsame mistakes. Didn't help. Like I said, the parallels are frightening. The only reason I'm speaking up about this is because i don't want to have to watch ESO die due to the same kinds of bad decisions that made so many others like it die.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I tend to agree with you @AuldWolf the scaling of the world bosses requiring 3 experienced players to clear is ridiculously stupid and needs to be changed to a system where its harder with one player easier with 2 and a pushover with the 3rd.

Whats worse is that this will turn World bosses into an avoided area for some and farm spots for the easie one because the incentive is the drops. No dailies or quests around clearing for rewards.

ZoS needs to readjust these World bosses to become soloable otherwise the most difficult bosses won't be used and thats a waste of assets.

Brrrofski · October 2016

Dueling in cities I agree with. Every them I go to stormhavem it's a long load time. Without fail. My game used to dashboard in pvp only, now it happens on cities.

World bosses aren't hard. Any decent build can solo them.

1T is awesome though. The game feels so much more alive.

TheSeer · October 2016

AuldWolf wrote: »

I don't agree with what you've done to world bosses (now group bosses). I really don't. I don't like the disruptive duelling in towns, either.

I'm a little fed up of changes like this. Changes to appeal to intentionally disruptive PvP players, and changes to appeal to the hardcore. Changes to appeal to less than 5~ per cent of the overall playerbase. Most of the people playing this game are going to be doing so either solo PvE, or in a group of 2-3 PvE. These are the people with subscriptions. These are the roleplayers who regularly buy from the crown store. And you're alienating them with the changes you're making.

I'm worried ZOS is out of touch. It's the same kind of out of touch that Champions Online and Battleborn suffered, which killed both of those games. No, really, they're both ghost towns now. Don't take my word for it, though:

Champions Online: http://steamcharts.com/app/9880
Battleborn: http://steamcharts.com/app/394230

ESO is doing the same thing. When I left to take a break, ESO had around 5-600~ players a day. Now it has 3-4,000~ players a day. I can guess why. And again, don't take my word for it:

ESO then: https://web.archive.org/web/20160111202754/http://steamcharts.com/app/306130
ESO now: http://steamcharts.com/app/306130

The changes ESO is making now mimic the changes that Battleborn and Champions Online made. They appealed to PvP players and hardcore PvE players. There's nothing wrong with those groups, it's just that they aren't the majority. And they certainly aren't cash shop buyers. Changing things to suit these minorities will cost you population, and that will cost you money (rather than make you money). Every single change like this will cost you population and money. These are really silly choices to make. I don't want to see ESO go down the same terrible road that Champions Online did, but I see so many parallels that it's uncanny. No, it's frightening.

Changes like these will not only kill off the population, but it'll also lose ESO its subscribers and crown store buyers. The more you appeal to tiny minorities over your core demographic (95~ per cent of your players), the more you risk just losing everything and becoming a ghost town.

The Steam Charts numbers don't lie.

I really hope that ZOS will listen, otherwise no amount of lockboxes will save ESO. And hey, guess what? Champions Online also tried lockboxes to save itself after making all of these selfsame mistakes. Didn't help. Like I said, the parallels are frightening. The only reason I'm speaking up about this is because i don't want to have to watch ESO die due to the same kinds of bad decisions that made so many others like it die.

mlstevens42_ESO · October 2016

Have to disagree about world bosses as they were not meant to be a solo event unless you were a skilled player.

My opinions about dueling are just take it outside of town as it doesn't really make sense for it to be allowed inside of town. Otherwise it has little to nothing to do with me.

While I have steam on my computer I have never used it to play this game. In fact I can not think of any one that I know that uses steam to play eso. Some how I doubt that steam stats would give a clear picture since not all of us use it to play eso.

I would hesitate to state who in my opinion the majority of people that have subs and buy from crown store are. I know lots of end game players many that pvp as well and most that I have talked to are subs and buy things they think are nice from the store. Whether the changes you mentioned would honestly make a drastic change that you suggest has no numbers to back it up in your favor or against you just keep that in mind.

It is hard for me to know if the crowds we are seeing are from one tam with us all being shoveled into the same zones rather then separated....if it is because of the festival. Still at this point there seems to be an increase of players not a decrease. What we will see in the coming months is unknown.

For the record I do miss the quiet of the old vet zones.....but that is a to each their own sort of thing. Many like the activity.

Hammy01 · October 2016

The only problem i have with the new DLC is the constant dualing in the cities making for some bad lag at times but the rest of the DLC is a blast and i am having loads of fun farming for new gear sets!

I think ZOS should add some special areas for the people who want to dual to help combat the constant lag in the cities!

IwakuraLain42 · October 2016

IDK if it's related to dueling, as it has settled down a bit since the launch of 1T, but the lag in the major cities (Mournhold, Wayrest, Elden Root) needs to be addressed. Visiting these place is unpleasent, slow and crash prone (esp. Elden Root).

As they are very important places to visit performance fixes are required.

cpuScientist · October 2016

Tandor wrote: »

I'd be in favour of all world bosses being based on two players rather than variously one or four, and dueling being kept outside of towns and a minimum radius from wayshrines. So far as the rest of One Tamriel is concerned, I love it.

Well they are being solo'd so they are based on 1 lol...

cpuScientist · October 2016

As a person that has a degree in math and has taken many statistics classes, it really grinds my gears to see people pull random percentages out their wahoo...

Doctordarkspawn · October 2016

Honestly, the dueling is bad, but the world bosses arrent so bad.

The dungeon scaling, now -that- is bad.

Kalebron · October 2016

Don't like it? Get some friends so you can do group content. Don't be a loner in a social game. There is much more you can do without a group but soooo much more fun with one. Someone give OP a guild invite!

DUTCH_REAPER · October 2016

This one major update brought both my sons back to playing ESO. Able to make new friends and actually doing quests again with friends on new characters. And bc I'm EP...anytime I see that DC or AD mount I challenge the scum to a duel...love the update! Love now that bosses take skill to kill if in low numbers or solo.

Good job ZOS

idk · October 2016

@AuldWolf

Sorry your upset that world bosses are now actually bosses instead of kinda strong NPCs.

When the game launched I thaught it was pathetic that WBs could be done solo. Was been used to needing 12-20 to kill a WB in other game.

The recent change is a step in the right direction. Zos still has room for improvement.

Lumenn · October 2016

Loving OT. I DO wish they had made an arena or something for the duels due to griefers( even going to craft Hundings in the broken arch I've been bombarded twice by people who like to show their sparklies) I don't even care if they do it in town really, just add some anti-griefer changes like make it a crime near wayshrines and crafting stations/banks.

jmgrant44ub17_ESO · October 2016

Hammy01 wrote: »

The only problem i have with the new DLC is the constant dualing in the cities making for some bad lag at times but the rest of the DLC is a blast and i am having loads of fun farming for new gear sets!

I think ZOS should add some special areas for the people who want to dual to help combat the constant lag in the cities!

They did add Hammerdeath Arena in Stormhaven.

Kalebron · October 2016

During the life of every mmo, there is a spike in player base in the beginning which dwindles down after a while to the true fan base. Those are some pretty strong numbers for steam players. Now add in everyone one else who has never touched steam and holy cow. Maybe that is where the lag is coming from. Lol

Sou_rou · October 2016

AuldWolf wrote: »

I don't agree with what you've done to world bosses (now group bosses).

You mean Group Bosses. They should not be soloable. I don't have a problem with that.

I do have issues with the scaling issues for overland quest content, but it's becoming less of an issue as I move closer to CP160, as I expected it would given how scaling works.

Either I don't hang in town long enough for dueling to be a problem or I'm not in the right (wrong?) part of town. I usually home base out of Rawl'kha because it's compact--which means it's hard NOT to be near the wrong part of town. I've been through many towns in DC and EP doing DB quests (including searching whole towns for Litany of Blood victims) and leveling. Still not getting this.

If dueling is a problem for a significant minority, I'd say make a designated dueling green in the major towns and open dueling in the rest of the world. That keeps dueling contained in the high concentration areas and agrees with historical dueling. Building that into ESO might be challenging, though. Maybe a dueling hall would be more practical.

Nickernator · October 2016

I don't think the ESO steam chart numbers give a good index for this game, there players like me that bought the game on release before it even was available on Steam (When I play the game, steam charts won't count me), there is also ESO for the consoles, also this number isn't shown on the Steam Charts.

TLDR:
Steam Charts only shows the Steam Owners of the game, not everyone has the game on Steam.

Kodrac · October 2016

Why is the complaint always "I can't solo World Bosses anymore"? Every MMO has these. Every MMO designs them to need multiple players to defeat. But any time a change is made to difficulty, scaling. syncing, whatever it's always "whaaa I wanna solo WBs whaaaa".

AH93 · October 2016

Agree about duelling in towns.