Most of your points are invalid in those guilds of mine with a small amount of players.
I got one large Trade guild where no one is actually talking to each others but the guild has 400+ members.
Then I have a small friendly evening hours guild with a friendly atmosphere and almost instant response in chat.
Just search yourself a <50 members guild and mostly those are by far the most communicative ones.

GreenhaloX wrote: »

kicked from a guild without given a reason, and even though, they had paid the weekly guild fee for those guilds that charge.

I would never ever pay money to stay in a guild, unless its buddys of mine that runs it, and its a small guild.

Personally I just have 1 main guild thats about 20-50 people where we do PvE/PvP content, and 4 trading guild where I go to option and turn off chat after joining so I don't see the chat from them, just using it to sell stuff at guild vendor.

Im in 5 guilds and all is like below 50 members, only reason I would be in a big guild is a trading guild.

The way I think of it is, you will get lost in a huge guild of 500, and you wont get to know people anyways in there, so there will be little help getting there. In smaller guilds people tent to have the mentality of helping guildies over doing pugs or helping people in their bigger guilds if they are in it.

OP, You found guilds that suck then.

Not my experience with any of the 5 I belong to. None of them have mandatory fees. One is mainly a trading guild, with voluntary raffles, and an auction to raise gold for a trader. No mandatory participation in the raffles, No mandatory participation in the auction. No mandatory fees. There is enough participation in chat that I made a separate tab so I could turn off that specific guild. Two others are extremely new player friendly, one usually ends up with a trader, neither has any fees. Oh, you do have to log in at least once every two weeks, that is mandatory; or let the gm/officers know you're not going to be able to so you don't get kicked. One of them makes gear for members for free. Both of them have people who want to do trials, dungeons, and who will show up to lend a hand for a boss. The others are quieter, but they still have people who want do trials/dungeons and help out.

I don't understand why someone would stay with a guild that demands fees, won't allow people to participate, and generally act like condescending jerks.

Seems you found some pretty crap guilds. There are plenty of guilds out there that are great, and many more that suck. Not unlike companies in real life. Keep in mind that guilds that recruit are often either new, or have a very high turnover rate. Try and find guilds that aren't actively recruiting, but come recommend by friends and other people you trust.

Before yall discredit the OP's position, I think it's worth considering the context. OP plays on PS4. It seems like many of you play on PC.

On PS4 (anecdotal evidence), the overall population of players is smaller. This may be in absolute numbers alone, or it may be a result of having more casual players who play less hours of the day. I'd say it's more of the former, because point number 2 is that on PS4, there are many more max CP players in comparison to newer players compared to PC. On PS4, most guild traders have a minimum weekly fee. This is not the case on PC. Most guild traders, by nature, are also the most cohesive social guilds (by default) because they provide players a reason to be there, and most experienced players will likely need a trader guild to sustain themselves economically.

To the OP's point, I find his experiences to be symptomatic of a foundation problem with the way that guilds are designed on ESO. So for those of you who may be able to dispute his experiences, because the culture is different on PC, I don't think that you will be able to dispute that some of the guild features in the game are inadequate and obsolete.

For example, the single most difficult problem that I have experienced with running friendly, helpful, social guilds is what I call 'officer fatigue.' Officer fatigue is a problem where good-hearted players become disheartened with running a guild because of the amount of unnecessary effort it takes to perform the most basic of guild functions. It deters them from serving again, and, as a result, the most qualified individuals are less likely to step up in leadership.

What creates officer fatigue?

1.) Not having customizable guild features. For example, the community has asked many times for the implementation of a system that restricts the amount of items that players can withdraw from guild banks, resulting in mistrust towards players overall in terms of giving withdrawal privileges and mistrust of player in terms of depositing items in a guild bank. In addition to that, ZOS has not implemented the somewhat promised (on live) feature of allowing us to reply to sender when we get in-game mail, a primary communication feature used to talk to guildies about questions, rank ups, donations, raffles, etc. Similarly, the current system is black and white when it comes to changing guild notes. Either you can change everyone's guild note, or none at all. Why not have a setting that allows members to edit only their own note? For those of you on PC, I recognize that you have lovely addons out there that provide customization. Lucky you, but console players are stuck with the basic features that ZOS chooses to give us.

2.) A game centered around solo play will hurt guild play. Essentially, everything about the development of this game has been a step towards turning it into Elder Scrolls (but online). Mostly everything can be done alone. The group content is relatively optional, and, in cases where it isn't, features like group finder have been put in place. This makes guilds unnecessary, and guild leaders have to FORCE the guild to work. The pull is for players to leave and not stay, because they're not really getting anything from being in a guild that they can't get already.

3.) The trading system makes trader guilds supreme. To make money in this game to purchase your basic needs, you're probably going to be in a guild trader guild. In some extreme cases, like in some periods of my life, you'll be in 5 guild trader guilds, because there's a limit of 30 items that you can sell. Needing to occupy my guild spaces with trader guilds prevents me from joining raiding guilds, trials guilds, or social guilds. It doesn't help that you can essentially get the same utility from a trader guild that you would from a social guild: invites to join non-pug dungeons, world boss runs, and essentially the tiny half dozen of things in the game that require group play.

Dear OP,

I agree there are some complete crap guilds out there. From your post I guess you have found a bad string of them. So to try to help you out I am going to list a couple guilds that might be a good fit. I will provide my feedback as well.This one was mentioned earlier

Dreadlords- Kinda a everything guild. I am no longer in it because I was looking for more end game content, but a good grp of ppl none the less. Sewer runs, trader, some trials and vDungeons. Downside is they do not run much end game content

FiF (Fear is Failure)- Mainly a Trials Guild, has some really good players. Downside is there is a guild within a guild. the top players, and everyone else. It is the "everyone else" part that I am suggesting.

Wings of Fate- I must admit I have never been apart of this guild, told they are a social guild but have a good base and do events a few times per week. I generally hear good things about them.

GSCH (Gaiscioch)- (Pronounced Gosh-Kia... I had to ask when i joined)- Social Gaming community (15yrs and counting) Events most days of the week, Good grp of people, willing to learn and help out. Downside- Since they are more People centered vTrials are a bit on the back burner.

A word about Trade guilds- Some of them require a min sales per week, if you do not meet this then don't expect not to be kicked. it is in thier nature to "Compete" in the trade market

I am sure great guilds out there that I missed, But I hope this points you in a direction that lets you find a guild that is a good fit for you.

Regards,
Lavum

I really only play Solo, so any membership I have in any Guild is purely because all my characters are Merchants as well as fighters. So I only join Trading Guilds, OP.

That said, much of what you've said rings true.

My latest issue for withdrawing from three Trade Guilds is: membership costs to Sell in the Guild Stores.

Now; I understand that it costs an absurd amount of money to keep a "good" Trade kiosk, I do. And in that spirit, I don't mind paying 2-3k per week to keep access to selling in a Guild Store. I sell way more than that in a week anyway, so 2-3k doesn't really even make me blink.

But I had three Guilds raise that to 10k per week a short while back, and I immediately withdrew from those guilds. That price, just to sell in the Guild Store, is absurd IMO.

Now; I also understand why they had to do it. Member activity was down, so in order to keep the desired kiosk, they had to ramp up the "fees" for the active members, but weren't weeding out the inactive members. This just led to a direct loss of revenue for the Guild(s) as a whole. But this is just poor Guild management.

Had they weeded out the inactive members and actively recruited people who really wanted to make their own wealth, the "fee" hike wouldn't have had to happen.

So I deeply understand your issues with Guilds, OP.

I have had a total of 7 guilds since early launch on PC. 1 I quit to make room for another guild. 1 had the GM go MIA, so we folded over into a new guild. My newest is a PvP guild I found pre IC launch. 3 I had since starting ESO. They are all great guilds.
I'm sorry for the OP's bad experience, and as I'm on PC can't speak for the console community, but, don't give up hope. There are good ones out there.

To add some anecdotal evidence to the PC/Console point of view: yes, this very much the problem with a lot of guild on PS4/EU. Virtually all trading guild demand a weekly fee (usually 5K per week) to maintain their traders. A lot of guilds raise and fall very fast.

I think the main reason for this are the extremely rudimentary guild tools the game offers us. There are no ways to organize events ingame, communication was restricted to voice for a long time (a problem in EU due to no common language), text chat is used very rarely by most players I know. Guild management is virtually non-existant, leading to large roosters of mostly inactive players.
Also adding to the problem is that fact that actually finding guilds is very hard, you have to rely on word of mouth here (for example: I've been looking for trial guild for weeks now, a very elusive bunch ....)

So yes, the situation on PC might be better, but on Console this is a topic ....