Be careful buying raffle tickets in your trade guilds

Malamar1229 · October 2016

Use the guild bank deposit function to purchase raffle tickets for your trade guilds. I am fairly certain every trade guild runs a weekly raffle to maintain trader bid support, so dont ever mail a large portion of gold to an officer or guild leader for raffle ticket purchase. Unfortunately some of these players are involved in gold selling behavior, and if you send them gold you are implicated.

I lost a 2yr old account with some 700 CPs because of this "No tolerance" attitude zos has.

Just a best practice I was hoping could help someone not suffer the same fate.

Makkir

Vorcil · October 2016

zos only like it when you gamble with their crates; no raffles 4 u

Vyle_Byte · October 2016

Oh wow... and you are still here?! As much as I love this game, if that happened to me I know Id never come back. That's alotta heart, soul, blood and tears to be just washed away.

That's a bogus system, also. Its one thing to punish the gold sellers/hackers/cheaters, which is necessary, but those who are just supporting their guild?! ZoS needs to take a better look at their system as to not punish the innocent.

Acrolas · October 2016

There still no legal term to really define what guilds are doing. Raffles are state-regulated, non-profit fundraising events. Lotteries are state and federally regulated for-profit events. What guilds are doing isn't regulated by anything or anybody.

I would like ZOS to take a stance that guilds can't use conditional incentives or games of chance to fund their guilds. Everything has to be 100% voluntary deposit into the guild bank (not even using the word 'donation', which has its own tricky legal web).

Then people can't be scammed. They help the guild through their own game budget without expecting anything in return other than what the guild advertises itself to do.

Sorry you lost your account, but take some consolation that ZOS absolutely has some blood on their hands, too.

WalksonGraves · October 2016

Good thing I distrust all people. *Hoards gold*

Malamar1229 · October 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

There still no legal term to really define what guilds are doing. Raffles are state-regulated, non-profit fundraising events. Lotteries are state and federally regulated for-profit events. What guilds are doing isn't regulated by anything or anybody.

I would like ZOS to take a stance that guilds can't use conditional incentives or games of chance to fund their guilds. Everything has to be 100% voluntary deposit into the guild bank (not even using the word 'donation', which has its own tricky legal web).

Then people can't be scammed. They help the guild through their own game budget without expecting anything in return other than what the guild advertises itself to do.

Sorry you lost your account, but take some consolation that ZOS absolutely has some blood on their hands, too.

I'm not overly upset because I understand what they deal with on a daily basis. I am little more agitated over the certain players who used cheat engine who were allowed back in, yet I am on appeal #15 I think.
I have a new account now and the funny thing is, I probably don't need my old account back since I pretty much have the gear I had plus all these new sets. So even if I got the old account back, it's a grind all over again for the new sets. The thing I miss most is all the champion points. That's really the gate that is keeping me from certain content. I can't get into groups as I get the msg "sorry too low."

My feelings towards CP are a different forum topic however.

biovitalb16_ESO · October 2016

Just tell ZOS you were using Cheat Engine, they will unban you in a few days and actually apologize to you for it...just ask the top pvpers.

redspecter23 · October 2016

There is a larger issue here that extends beyond the raffles that many guilds hold to earn gold.

You sent gold to a player.
You got banned for that action.

That right there is a scary thought. If you send a large amount of gold to ANY player, you might be subject to a permanent ban, especially if that player themselves is caught up in anything shady. You get dragged down with them. You can never know what other players are up to so any time you send gold to someone, you are risking a permaban. The question is, what is a large enough amount of gold to trigger the ban? I often send gold to my guildmates in exchange for items they send me. Sometimes 100k or more worth at a time. Do I deserve to be banned if one of them is up to no good without my knowledge?

On the flipside, as a GM, if I send raffle winnings to someone via the mail system, can I be banned for that?

DannyLV702 · October 2016

Snapchats with the butterfly filter get you unbanned real quick #facts

Smasherx74 · October 2016

I think OP is telling a white lie.

redspecter23 · October 2016

Smasherx74 wrote: »

I think OP is telling a white lie.

And your proof of that is...

Malamar1229 · October 2016

redspecter23 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

I think OP is telling a white lie.

And your proof of that is...

Theres one in every thread.

To the other guy asking about a gold amount. Something between 300 and 500k.

Bouldercleave · October 2016

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

There still no legal term to really define what guilds are doing. Raffles are state-regulated, non-profit fundraising events. Lotteries are state and federally regulated for-profit events. What guilds are doing isn't regulated by anything or anybody.

I would like ZOS to take a stance that guilds can't use conditional incentives or games of chance to fund their guilds. Everything has to be 100% voluntary deposit into the guild bank (not even using the word 'donation', which has its own tricky legal web).

Then people can't be scammed. They help the guild through their own game budget without expecting anything in return other than what the guild advertises itself to do.

Sorry you lost your account, but take some consolation that ZOS absolutely has some blood on their hands, too.

I'm not overly upset because I understand what they deal with on a daily basis. I am little more agitated over the certain players who used cheat engine who were allowed back in, yet I am on appeal #15 I think.
I have a new account now and the funny thing is, I probably don't need my old account back since I pretty much have the gear I had plus all these new sets. So even if I got the old account back, it's a grind all over again for the new sets. The thing I miss most is all the champion points. That's really the gate that is keeping me from certain content. I can't get into groups as I get the msg "sorry too low."

My feelings towards CP are a different forum topic however.

So this must have happened a while ago if you have a new account if you were already able to replace all your gear plus the new stuff?

I've never understood the banning policy around here to be honest. I would think it would be pretty easy to verify that you were doing nothing malicious and just trying to support your guild.

idk · October 2016

Has to be more to the story. To simple.

Malamar1229 · October 2016

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

There still no legal term to really define what guilds are doing. Raffles are state-regulated, non-profit fundraising events. Lotteries are state and federally regulated for-profit events. What guilds are doing isn't regulated by anything or anybody.

I would like ZOS to take a stance that guilds can't use conditional incentives or games of chance to fund their guilds. Everything has to be 100% voluntary deposit into the guild bank (not even using the word 'donation', which has its own tricky legal web).

Then people can't be scammed. They help the guild through their own game budget without expecting anything in return other than what the guild advertises itself to do.

Sorry you lost your account, but take some consolation that ZOS absolutely has some blood on their hands, too.

I'm not overly upset because I understand what they deal with on a daily basis. I am little more agitated over the certain players who used cheat engine who were allowed back in, yet I am on appeal #15 I think.
I have a new account now and the funny thing is, I probably don't need my old account back since I pretty much have the gear I had plus all these new sets. So even if I got the old account back, it's a grind all over again for the new sets. The thing I miss most is all the champion points. That's really the gate that is keeping me from certain content. I can't get into groups as I get the msg "sorry too low."

My feelings towards CP are a different forum topic however.

So this must have happened a while ago if you have a new account if you were already able to replace all your gear plus the new stuff?

I've never understood the banning policy around here to be honest. I would think it would be pretty easy to verify that you were doing nothing malicious and just trying to support your guild.

in 7 or 8 weeks ive managed to get to where i am. i took a promotion out of state...wife and kids are still on the other side of the US so i had quite a bit of alone time to invest into my acct. I close on our new home on Monday finally! I have been playing on hotel internet for these 2 months. talk about tolerance.
I run a magicka sorc, as i have for 2 years. easy to gear up

Ackwalan · October 2016

redspecter23 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

I think OP is telling a white lie.

And your proof of that is...

The same proof that the OP is telling the truth. I also take "stories" like this with a grain of salt.

Malamar1229 · October 2016

Ackwalan wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

I think OP is telling a white lie.

And your proof of that is...

The same proof that the OP is telling the truth. I also take "stories" like this with a grain of salt.

i also didnt come here for your validation. Theres a clear message in the OP that is far from crying, complaining, or begging for acceptance. Its a simple PSA. You can take it or pass along and troll in another thread.

Korah_Eaglecry · October 2016

Acrolas wrote: »

There still no legal term to really define what guilds are doing. Raffles are state-regulated, non-profit fundraising events. Lotteries are state and federally regulated for-profit events. What guilds are doing isn't regulated by anything or anybody.

I would like ZOS to take a stance that guilds can't use conditional incentives or games of chance to fund their guilds. Everything has to be 100% voluntary deposit into the guild bank (not even using the word 'donation', which has its own tricky legal web).

Then people can't be scammed. They help the guild through their own game budget without expecting anything in return other than what the guild advertises itself to do.

Sorry you lost your account, but take some consolation that ZOS absolutely has some blood on their hands, too.

Good god the irony of this comment. All the while we're waiting for these Crown Crates.

Rohamad_Ali · October 2016

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Snapchats with the butterfly filter get you unbanned real quick #facts

On the subject ... I was told raffles are necessary to offord trade kiosk every week . If not participating then guild loses kiosk . Is this untrue ? Are you sure this is gold trading scam ?

Ackwalan · October 2016

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

I think OP is telling a white lie.

And your proof of that is...

The same proof that the OP is telling the truth. I also take "stories" like this with a grain of salt.

i also didnt come here for your validation. Theres a clear message in the OP that is far from crying, complaining, or begging for acceptance. Its a simple PSA. You can take it or pass along and troll in another thread.

Sure, if you say so.

Malamar1229 · October 2016

i dont get why anyone would buy those crates anyway...theres a thread on the PTS section with RNG results. Theyre so bad, its pissing your money away

wenchmore420b14_ESO · October 2016

[quote="Acrolas;3467741"] What guilds are doing isn't regulated by anything or anybody.

I would like ZOS to take a stance that guilds can't use conditional incentives or games of chance to fund their guilds. Everything has to be 100% voluntary deposit into the guild bank (not even using the word 'donation', which has its own tricky legal web).

This is not true. Using my raffles as a example, any one sending me gold gets it returned and instructed as to place in bank for tickets.
I track each donation on a spreadsheet with guildies name and a number for each ticket bought.
All members can see who deposited what and who withdrew what in bank and with gold.
At drawing, I use a Random Number Generator, pick three winners, screenshot the results and post on our website, then announce winners in chat.
There is total transparency.
All raffle donations are voluntary.You must not run a guild as you would know there is no way to maintain a kiosk without raffles, etc.

But, to the original OP, thank you for this. You made a great point of what to look for in not so nice guilds.

Acrolas · October 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Good god the irony of this comment. All the while we're waiting for these Crown Crates.

Crown Crates are really just Heather Powers' revenge for The Muppets being cancelled.
If somebody at ZOS would only ask what we'd like to spend our money on, we could cancel her, too.

Elsonso · October 2016

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Use the guild bank deposit function to purchase raffle tickets for your trade guilds. I am fairly certain every trade guild runs a weekly raffle to maintain trader bid support, so dont ever mail a large portion of gold to an officer or guild leader for raffle ticket purchase.

If ZOS is on the ball, it should make no difference whether a mule sends the gold to the gold seller via mail or by using a guild bank as a dead drop. Once ZOS identifies that a person is a gold seller, the next step should be to determine where the gold is coming from, and from that, who is providing the gold.

Rather than suggest that the best way to participate in a raffle is by direct deposit, I think that the message here is to understand the risks involved any time one player sends gold to another player. If either of them are dishonest in how they got the gold, or what they do with the gold, things can get complicated in a bad way.

ZOS knows that these raffles happen, and they know that gold is sent in the mail, and deposited in the banks. As far as any of us know, these raffles are not a violation of the ToS. Therefore, we can expect that ZOS will not be wanting to ban people for giving gold to an officer for the purpose of a raffle, which is not against the ToS, even if that officer is running a gold selling operation, which is against the ToS. The main reason why ZOS is likely to uphold a ban in this case is that there is no reason for them to think that the gold was for a raffle.

Cryptical · October 2016

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Use the guild bank deposit function to purchase raffle tickets for your trade guilds. I am fairly certain every trade guild runs a weekly raffle to maintain trader bid support, so dont ever mail a large portion of gold to an officer or guild leader for raffle ticket purchase. Unfortunately some of these players are involved in gold selling behavior, and if you send them gold you are implicated.

I lost a 2yr old account with some 700 CPs because of this "No tolerance" attitude zos has.

Just a best practice I was hoping could help someone not suffer the same fate.

Makkir

Ever notice that 'the powers that be' (TPTB) generally come down harder on rule violations related to disobedience / disrespect of power than they come down on violations among the rank-and-file?

I mean... There have been a number of examples of people receiving harsh penalties for violations that question the power structure while people receive shorter and lighter penalties for violations that actually shed blood... And in an odd parallel we hear about a harsh 'no tolerance' penalty for a violation that disrupts zeni's authority over money while the people that used cheat programs and abused the survey exploit against other players received lighter penalties.

Both would be examples of institutional self protection... Both institutions taking a dimmer view of actions that question its foundation for existence...

Or I could just be speaking Martian, as most times I have made this point I get looks of bewilderment. As if I were speaking Martian.

Alucardo · October 2016

Yet CE users were unbanned after 3 days. It's like, what

SaibotLiu · October 2016

Cryptical wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Use the guild bank deposit function to purchase raffle tickets for your trade guilds. I am fairly certain every trade guild runs a weekly raffle to maintain trader bid support, so dont ever mail a large portion of gold to an officer or guild leader for raffle ticket purchase. Unfortunately some of these players are involved in gold selling behavior, and if you send them gold you are implicated.

I lost a 2yr old account with some 700 CPs because of this "No tolerance" attitude zos has.

Just a best practice I was hoping could help someone not suffer the same fate.

Makkir

Ever notice that 'the powers that be' (TPTB) generally come down harder on rule violations related to disobedience / disrespect of power than they come down on violations among the rank-and-file?

I mean... There have been a number of examples of people receiving harsh penalties for violations that question the power structure while people receive shorter and lighter penalties for violations that actually shed blood... And in an odd parallel we hear about a harsh 'no tolerance' penalty for a violation that disrupts zeni's authority over money while the people that used cheat programs and abused the survey exploit against other players received lighter penalties.

Both would be examples of institutional self protection... Both institutions taking a dimmer view of actions that question its foundation for existence...

Or I could just be speaking Martian, as most times I have made this point I get looks of bewilderment. As if I were speaking Martian.

That's pretty easy to explain. Duping, gold selling, etc. all do irreperable damage to the economy of the game. Killing someone whilst using some kind of 3rd party software does not really impact the longterm health of the game. In an MMO world manipulation of the ingame economy in a way that violates the ToS is a far worse offense than making a bunch of people mad cause they died in PVP.

[Deleted User] · October 2016

Hello everyone,

This post is to let you know that we've felt it necessary to close this thread. The reason being that it seems to be leaning more towards the discussion of disciplinary actions on one's account, which is against the Forum Rules. If anyone wishes to appeal any action on their account, please feel free to do so through a support ticket.

Thank you for understanding!