Here's Why I Think One-Shot Mechanics and More HP is a good thing.

Prabooo · October 2016

Asardes wrote: »

Yesterday we had a very inexperienced max CP DD in our pledges group.

That might have been me. I usually rushed through every boss without even noticing their names.

Doctordarkspawn · October 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

2 points

1.) I appreciate the mechanics now of the normal dungeons a bit more,honestly I'm guilty of burning through them.BTW the mad architect's mechanics are hands down awesome!!! It feels like an epic fight.

2.) One shot mechanics I think are a reminder to players from the devs,that the age of glass cannons is coming to an end.I can't reccomend enough to these guys to slot harness magicka.

This.

Xsorus · October 2016

Bad DPS right now is super annoying.

the first boss of Fungal Grotto i think it is; the one with the thing that holds you down with the sword coming down...

I was in a group where 2 DPS couldn't do enough dps to kill one of those mobs......Was the most annoying fight i've ever been in and TOOK forever...

sirston · October 2016

ehhhh as a tank for most pledges I deal with less then acquitted healers that only spam one heal or don't throw shards at all if there a Templar... I think most boss's should kill anyone who is not blocking the hits or it shouldn't break agro the millisecond it's agro is about to drop.

inf.toniceb17_ESO · October 2016

I don't really mind hp buff and one-shot mechanics BUT there should be a good indication that you are about to be hit. Yesterday i played as DD and we couldnt do Spindle HM beacuse there was no idication of her spit. She didnt even bother to turn towards you before the attack. She simply were killing our healer and then both me and other DD without any pattern. Ranged guys with extremely good reaction can survive this maybe but melee DDs are simply SOL. Today i played as healer in Tempest Island and we 2-manned last boss on HM ONLY because tank had 45k (!) hp and could took 2 hits and i kept harness magicka up 100% of time. Both DDs were dead most of the battle because boss kept rushing towards them w/o any warning. If it's gonna stay that way the only solution i see is to use heavy armor with some HP buffs no matter what role you are playing. At least in cases like Spindle 1 HM and Tempest HM. Yes im prolly gonna do about 10k DPS as a DD and my ability to heal/buff will be extremely limited as a healer but at least i'll be able to do something.

RavenSworn · October 2016

Gonna chime in with an example of a few boss mechanics in another mmo, the secret world or TSW. One of the best mechanics I've come across was a boss called Machine Tyrant.

Lifeburn
The Lifeburn effect is very dangerous in this encounter as it is applied quite often. Every 15 second or so, everyone currently alive will receive 2 stacks of the Lifeburn effect. It will deal a lot of damage if you allow it to stack up.

You have to cleanse it so it doesn't stack too much.

Cleave
The Machine Tyrant’s main attack is a nameless cleave attack that deals damage to everyone in front of it. Consequently, nobody but the tank should be in front of this boss.

Demolish
A large and extremely devastating insta-kill AoE ability that can be impaired or avoided as you see fit.

Shield
This boss is shielded by the large portal tower. In order to deactivate the shield temporarily, make the boss step into the anima pool that appears on random locations on the battlefield. Do not stand in this anima pool yourself as it will gradually kill you, but the tank should lure the boss into stepping into it.

The boss will then lose the shield temporarily. Watch his debuffs to see when the shield is coming back up. STOP ALL ATTACKS if or when the shield comes back up or else you will die. Often the tank will be able to move the boss into new anima pools before it comes up at all, but be cautious.

Firmament Barrage
Large red circles will periodcally appear on the ground and chase a random player. The area inside the circle will continuously be bombarded. Avoid it or you will die. More and more of these will spawn later into the fight and will follow different players.

Wave of Immolation
Well into the fight, the boss will begin to sometimes run to the centre of the battlefield and shoot rockets that will hit extremely many places of the battlefield. You should run to one of the corners in the arena to avoid these attacks as they are extremely hard to avoid since they cover all the ground near him.

The boss will reconsitute his shield after this, so do not attack him again until the tank has successfully moved him across a new anima pool.

It's a big wall of text but basically this boss has four instakill abilities that either the tank, healer or dps has to handle. A shield that reflects all damage done on him, runes on the ground that will chase one of the players and explode one shot, a mass rune on the ground chasing everyone, and a melee aoe.

And this is not even a raid level boss. It's a 5 man dungeon. Boss mechanics can be one shots if it's implemented correctly.

What I wanted to impart is that I agree with the op and having good 5man boss mechanics whets the appetite for really good challenge. Is it hard? Sure. Will you feel accomplished once you've completed the dungeon? Absolutely.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · October 2016

Phica_Lovic wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Just want to chime in about the "stop attacking" part. The thing is with DPS is that the group expects a certain lvl of DPS and if its not there, they complain " not enough DPS! Kick him!" So the DD is accustomed to play that rotation hard non-stop to maintain that number. The DD cannot stop.

First boss of VoM has a "dps-link" ability. If the DPS continue to burn, the linked person will die. Period. In order to get the, Survivor Achievement, the dps gotta learn to look for that and stop. Same way PVPers don't use certain abilities if a tank is reflecting. Same thing for the first boss on Arx Corinium. He heals based on damage done.

So... regardless, the DD MUST stop.

EDIT: as a healer, I've even been flamed on for not being able to heal through this dps-link ability. When the boss, 1 tank, and 2 dps are all siphoning damage into 1 person, it's simply unheal-able.

Is that what is? This is amazing, I have ran that dungeon a hundred times and someone always dies there(well not always but most of the time). When I have ran it as a tank, it was hard and I was like damn this boss hits hard(I survived through the link, though it was taxing). Thanks for the tip, you have saved my a death or two.

Asardes · October 2016

DHale wrote: »

One shot mechanis are just lazy game design. The QA team know the mechanic and short cuts.... we have to find them. By the time people learn them ther undaunted is nine and they have their gear they won't be teaching others and won't be back. Now pretty much even as a tank I can't find pledge groups and t1 just dropped for the PC crowd for certain dungeons. People don't want to spend two hours running a single pledge. Dire frost vet 1 boss can heal to full off her aoe. Then you have to start over. It's not the difficulty it's just not that fun.

If people don't block ASAP, yes. This mechanic has been there for ages. A year ago I spent almost an hour on my 1st run there. Telling people to block the tendril. A few days ago only 10 minutes or so, because they bothered to read the chat and press the right button on their mouse.

lappas · October 2016

i can agree about the bosses, BUT dont fing raise the hp on thrash to 300k each thats just plain stupid and a time waster.

But back to the bosses again in my opinion it only takes longer to complete its not hareder just a time sink..

IwakuraLain42 · October 2016

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't really mind hp buff and one-shot mechanics BUT there should be a good indication that you are about to be hit. Yesterday i played as DD and we couldnt do Spindle HM beacuse there was no idication of her spit. She didnt even bother to turn towards you before the attack. She simply were killing our healer and then both me and other DD without any pattern. Ranged guys with extremely good reaction can survive this maybe but melee DDs are simply SOL. Today i played as healer in Tempest Island and we 2-manned last boss on HM ONLY because tank had 45k (!) hp and could took 2 hits and i kept harness magicka up 100% of time. Both DDs were dead most of the battle because boss kept rushing towards them w/o any warning. If it's gonna stay that way the only solution i see is to use heavy armor with some HP buffs no matter what role you are playing. At least in cases like Spindle 1 HM and Tempest HM. Yes im prolly gonna do about 10k DPS as a DD and my ability to heal/buff will be extremely limited as a healer but at least i'll be able to do something.

This is my main concern with the one-shots as well. If they are there then the game should give you a clear telegraph that the attack is about to happen and give you enough time to react to it. This should also consider the fact that a lot of players are playing the game on a Console in their living room on a TV set, so something that is clearly visible on a PC monitor is often not so visible on a TV. Also the boss is often plastered by the different visual effects of the attacks, so a telegraph should consider that as well.

Asardes · October 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Just want to chime in about the "stop attacking" part. The thing is with DPS is that the group expects a certain lvl of DPS and if its not there, they complain " not enough DPS! Kick him!" So the DD is accustomed to play that rotation hard non-stop to maintain that number. The DD cannot stop.

Because really bad DPS is now very very annoying. I am happy to help people out, but sometimes it's just too far. Last night I had a group (vCoA1) with two 400+ DPS. They were both AWFUL. One was a NB in heavy armor light attacking with an occasional acid spray nearly the whole run. The other was a MAG SORC in heavy mostly just doing force pulse. Anyway, the tank and didn't DPS the last boss at all to see how long it would take. It took 17 minutes for the DPS to kill the final boss in vCoA 1.

IMO, that is just ridiculous. People like that should ONLY be playing normal. If you want to play like you want that's fine, but stick to normal if it makes it crappy for the rest of us.

Wearing more than 2 Heavy armor pieces should get a DD or healer kicked from a vet dungeon group. Missing 12% weapon damage from Agility passive or 10% spell critical from Prodigy and 5K spell penetration from Concentration will make a huge difference in terms of damage/healing. Not to mention having way less sustain in heavy armor - constitution passive from heavy works only if you are being hit a lot, a thing which a healer and DD should avoid, when even trash mobs can hit for 5-10K, and elite mobs will one shot. People are simply lazy and play mindlessly copied PvP builds in PvE then whine the content is too hard.

Asardes · October 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

VCoS draconus guy is just silly, he'll one shot me even when he's not next to me a lot of times...Frankly that's the most annoying one shot i've seen.

Things like the Whisperer give an indication at least....that guy just *** spins and instant kills me through 55k HP and 25k Blazing Shield.

You have to watch his body movement and bash him when he is winding up an attack. I simply spam bash him when I see him attacking. If you can't interrupt, roll dodge. If you don't interrupt him he will one shot you even while blocking. Just like Velidreth "corpulence". In both cases the attack can be partially mitigated trough bash interrupts, but even an interrupted attack will bite quite a chunk of your health. And during those fights there are a lot of AoE/DoT effects that basically ensure your health goes down constantly. So shuffle and roll dodge are necessary to stay alive. I have only 26.6K health but beat the hard mode on Velidreth twice, with the same people, because they are really good. The last time we basically 3 maned that fight, because the guest DD was constantly dying, he was pushing daisies for >70% of the fight.

Seri · October 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Edit: a great mechanic for trial boss fights would be a reflective shield going up around the boss where we have to stop damage or kill ourselves but have some requirement during that phase that must occur to get the shield down.

You mean like Grobull in DC2? Although that 'shield down' mechanic is simply kill enough of the small netches.

Asardes · October 2016

SirCritical wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

A valid point, but I wonder if the same one shot mechanic mentality should also apply to full mitigated tanks holding block with 32k health and still dying instantly (selene bear attack).

While this is quite off-topic in this thread, I have a thought that maybe the damage of Selene's bear-attack depends on the armor rating of the attacked char. Because I, a tank, in full heavy with buff died instantly when I was blocking (with full stam a blocking enchants etc.) while I clearly saw some bear attacks againts our light armored DPS, who just survived.

It doesn't depend. It's just set high enough to ensure that can't be mitigated. In normal mode that can be blocked and will only knock you down. I tried doing that the 1st time in veteran and got killed. The death recap only shows the final damage done. So it's basically your HP minus what you were missing when it hit you. If death recap contains damage that's above your HP it means that's a DoT beaing recovered trough healing. So if you see something like 64K, you were probably standing in her AoE attack prior to being stomped by the bear. The AoE is similar to vampire Bat Swarm.

Asardes · October 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Bad DPS right now is super annoying.

the first boss of Fungal Grotto i think it is; the one with the thing that holds you down with the sword coming down...

I was in a group where 2 DPS couldn't do enough dps to kill one of those mobs......Was the most annoying fight i've ever been in and TOOK forever...

The plural is the problem. All DPS should be concentrated on just one add. Killing 1/4 breaks the chains. And that's hard to believe. As tank I used pierce armor, then a few quick heroic slashes and removed ~40% of the health. The strategy there has always been to stay ranged in order to break the tendril fast, and once one is pinned down the remaining ones concentrate on a single add.

Asardes · October 2016

Actually ESO has those in a lot of dungeons, especially DLC dungeons. Veteran versions are always one shot:

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Gonna chime in with an example of a few boss mechanics in another mmo, the secret world or TSW. One of the best mechanics I've come across was a boss called Machine Tyrant.

Lifeburn
The Lifeburn effect is very dangerous in this encounter as it is applied quite often. Every 15 second or so, everyone currently alive will receive 2 stacks of the Lifeburn effect. It will deal a lot of damage if you allow it to stack up.

You have to cleanse it so it doesn't stack too much.

That will be the Planar Inhibitor in White Gold Tower and the statues at the end bosses in Ruins of Mazzatun and Cradle of Shadows, but the mechanics are much more complex.

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Cleave
The Machine Tyrant’s main attack is a nameless cleave attack that deals damage to everyone in front of it. Consequently, nobody but the tank should be in front of this boss.

- Tree Minder Na-kesh in Ruins of Mazzatun
- Selene in Selene's Web (bear attack)
- Hagraven boss in Blackheart Haven
- Possessed Manticore in Sanctum Ophidia, but that's a raid boss.

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Demolish
A large and extremely devastating insta-kill AoE ability that can be impaired or avoided as you see fit.

- Kra'gh (dreugh king) in Fungal Grotto I
- The Whisperer (daedra spider) in Spindleclutch I

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Shield
This boss is shielded by the large portal tower. In order to deactivate the shield temporarily, make the boss step into the anima pool that appears on random locations on the battlefield. Do not stand in this anima pool yourself as it will gradually kill you, but the tank should lure the boss into stepping into it.

The boss will then lose the shield temporarily. Watch his debuffs to see when the shield is coming back up. STOP ALL ATTACKS if or when the shield comes back up or else you will die. Often the tank will be able to move the boss into new anima pools before it comes up at all, but be cautious.

Not an exact match here, but some bosses are indeed shielded/invulnerable during various fight phases:
- Xal-Nur in Ruins of Mazzatun until you get the spice to the pool
- Dranos Valedor in Cradle of Shadows until the adds are killed and their essence colected
- Ibomez in Imperial City Prison until a certain number of adds spawn
- Molag Kena in White Gold Tower until the adds that keep the shield are destroyed
- Grobul in Darkshade Caverns II (doesn't aggro, has huge area AoE, reflects), only vulnerable when enough adds have been killed.

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Firmament Barrage
Large red circles will periodcally appear on the ground and chase a random player. The area inside the circle will continuously be bombarded. Avoid it or you will die. More and more of these will spawn later into the fight and will follow different players.

- Ash Titan in City of Ash II - more complicated, if you intersect circles with other player's one or circles on the ground it's one shot.

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Wave of Immolation
Well into the fight, the boss will begin to sometimes run to the centre of the battlefield and shoot rockets that will hit extremely many places of the battlefield. You should run to one of the corners in the arena to avoid these attacks as they are extremely hard to avoid since they cover all the ground near him.

The boss will reconsitute his shield after this, so do not attack him again until the tank has successfully moved him across a new anima pool.

- The Abomination in Imperial City Prison has some of this animation, with exploding hoarvors instead of rockets, you have to move to the corners to avoid them.

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

It's a big wall of text but basically this boss has four instakill abilities that either the tank, healer or dps has to handle. A shield that reflects all damage done on him, runes on the ground that will chase one of the players and explode one shot, a mass rune on the ground chasing everyone, and a melee aoe.

And this is not even a raid level boss. It's a 5 man dungeon. Boss mechanics can be one shots if it's implemented correctly.

What I wanted to impart is that I agree with the op and having good 5man boss mechanics whets the appetite for really good challenge. Is it hard? Sure. Will you feel accomplished once you've completed the dungeon? Absolutely.

Dracane · October 2016

There is only one thing, that can kill a very good player.
Either a 1 shot mechanic, or draining their important ressource.

Draining ressources is a super skillless mechanic in my opinion. So I rather have 1 shot mechanics, where I have a chance to avoid it.

Dymence · October 2016

Slayer9292_ESO wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

Just want to chime in about the "stop attacking" part. The thing is with DPS is that the group expects a certain lvl of DPS and if its not there, they complain " not enough DPS! Kick him!" So the DD is accustomed to play that rotation hard non-stop to maintain that number. The DD cannot stop.

Because really bad DPS is now very very annoying. I am happy to help people out, but sometimes it's just too far. Last night I had a group (vCoA1) with two 400+ DPS. They were both AWFUL. One was a NB in heavy armor light attacking with an occasional acid spray nearly the whole run. The other was a MAG SORC in heavy mostly just doing force pulse. Anyway, the tank and didn't DPS the last boss at all to see how long it would take. It took 17 minutes for the DPS to kill the final boss in vCoA 1.

IMO, that is just ridiculous. People like that should ONLY be playing normal. If you want to play like you want that's fine, but stick to normal if it makes it crappy for the rest of us.

At least your healer wasn't using a bow and light attacking with it in every fight.

Yes that actually happened to my wife, friend and myself once with a 4th pug healer.

Had a stamina templar DD yesterday who wore Ebon, had 31k hp and used the templar clap heal every now and then during bossfights. Pugs are great. Made my day.

Asardes · October 2016

But avoiding or shutting down the draining mechanic takes skill and group coordination. Dodge the balls, save the nuke for the totem and even hard mode won't be that hard in SotH dungeons.

Namarkas · October 2016

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

I don't really mind hp buff and one-shot mechanics BUT there should be a good indication that you are about to be hit. Yesterday i played as DD and we couldnt do Spindle HM beacuse there was no idication of her spit. She didnt even bother to turn towards you before the attack. She simply were killing our healer and then both me and other DD without any pattern. Ranged guys with extremely good reaction can survive this maybe but melee DDs are simply SOL. Today i played as healer in Tempest Island and we 2-manned last boss on HM ONLY because tank had 45k (!) hp and could took 2 hits and i kept harness magicka up 100% of time. Both DDs were dead most of the battle because boss kept rushing towards them w/o any warning. If it's gonna stay that way the only solution i see is to use heavy armor with some HP buffs no matter what role you are playing. At least in cases like Spindle 1 HM and Tempest HM. Yes im prolly gonna do about 10k DPS as a DD and my ability to heal/buff will be extremely limited as a healer but at least i'll be able to do something.

While some attacks/things might be bugged/annoying like a Spindle Boss that doesn't indicate their attack (I wasn't there so I wont make assumptions about that) this Tempest description is a nice example of what has been missing in the game. Namely finding (maybe custom) solutions to a problem. We had the same problem when it was the pledge the other day. After some time on the ground while the tank wouldn't give up and kept struggeling, I noticed that she was not charging at all. I suggested that we all stack up behind her, dodge the circle, and stack again asap, and voila, no charge instagibs. Lightning was survivable if the heal kept you on 100% health. Whirlwinds pushing me into the circle was what killed me if I died. But that's all learnable. So one-shot mechanics (for vet, not for normal), if not bugged and avoidable, are something that bring back some skill requirements into the game imo. Even if avoiding them might not be as straightforward as blocking it.

Phica_Lovic · October 2016

I see who people who only read forums when the servers are down.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2016

My take on the new dungeons.

Health: For the most part, I like the balance changes. I think they might have got carried away with the health on some of the trash, but most of the bosses are in about the right spot. I generally run in pretty high DPS groups, so I haven't noticed any of the bosses taking wildly longer than I think is reasonable. The trash however, sometimes I find myself literally doing them one handed, mostly just locked in a steel tornado spam.

One-Shots: These are amazing. We actually have to pay attention to basic mechanics now, and HM (double keys) have made tanks useful again. I am a fan of anything that promotes the trinity. Most HM bosses seem to have an AOE one-shot and can hit hard enough on their own to one-shot most DPS. There are a lot of potential 19-22k hits. These wont one-shot even an average tank, but a 18k health light armor wearer better not take one to the face.

Ultimately, they needed to make changes to combat power creep. Bosses that used to be difficult (ex. the Fire Maw in COA) were being burned in 10 seconds or less. The only real way to do that other than redisgn all the mechanics is to give enemies more health, more resistance and more damage. I think they probably have some fine tuning to do, but for the most part, it's pretty good.

Milvan · October 2016

Totally agree with OP. Great job.

plutosshadow · October 2016

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Gonna chime in with an example of a few boss mechanics in another mmo, the secret world or TSW. One of the best mechanics I've come across was a boss called Machine Tyrant.
...

It's a big wall of text but basically this boss has four instakill abilities that either the tank, healer or dps has to handle. A shield that reflects all damage done on him, runes on the ground that will chase one of the players and explode one shot, a mass rune on the ground chasing everyone, and a melee aoe.

And this is not even a raid level boss. It's a 5 man dungeon. Boss mechanics can be one shots if it's implemented correctly.

What I wanted to impart is that I agree with the op and having good 5man boss mechanics whets the appetite for really good challenge. Is it hard? Sure. Will you feel accomplished once you've completed the dungeon? Absolutely.

Hey fellow TSW player! My whole core ESO group came from TSW and Machine Tyrant is pretty much the gold standard we measure all fights by. Such a good fight. Yeah, it's hard to learn, but it's also fun as heck.

That said, even as a group of folks used to one shot mechanics, several people in my group are getting frustrated by the ones in ESO. The major difference I can see is that TSW is pretty clear about telegraphs and casts from bosses. ESO can be quite obscure about them. In some cases the AoEs are such a pale red that if there's enough shiny crap on the ground (like my own heal spell effects), or enough terrain shading, you can miss it if you aren't really paying attention. In TSW, if I ate a one shot, I usually knew I was 1) about to eat the one shot and 2) it was on me/a distracted or slow reaction/I needed practice. In ESO several times I've been sputtering "WTF?!!??" because I find the tells to be pretty obscure or in some cases, absent. Part of it for me could be lag though (I'm playing on EU, though I am located on NA, to be with my friends).

Perhaps that's simply because we're quite new to the game and missing the tells? Not sure. But something feels off about them.

AClockworkLime · October 2016

Any fight that takes more than 3-5 minutes in small group settings is a fight that is poorly designed.

Long fights are what raids/trials are for, with coordinated groups of practiced players. Dungeons are something to pass the time with a few friends or strangers in order to 'gear up' for raids/trials.

So no, it's not a good thing.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2016

AClockworkLime wrote: »

Any fight that takes more than 3-5 minutes in small group settings is a fight that is poorly designed.

Long fights are what raids/trials are for, with coordinated groups of practiced players. Dungeons are something to pass the time with a few friends or strangers in order to 'gear up' for raids/trials.

So no, it's not a good thing.

The counter argument to that is that group content can also be a good training ground for trials, not just a place to get gear. It's been a while since I have seen a 4-man boss that allows you to get through your rotation more than once or twice. I agree, that I dont want a stack and burn mini boss that takes 5 minutes, but having more than bloodspawn to practice on is not the worst thing.

idk · October 2016

WhiteMage wrote: »

One of the reasons there has to be 1-shot mechanics is because healers are too powerful. With the touch of a button, I can immediately heal two players to full health, with a heal that intelligently selects the two lowest heal players that I don't even have to be facing. Such a super powerful heal doesn't come to me with a long cool down or massive price, it's just so much bang for my buck in almost any other circumstance it would be unfair. That is one of the major problems with ESO. Power creep has come to our heals. I can cast this heal in half a second's notice so in order to make healing any semblance of challenging, in order for there to be the slightest threat of failure enemies must be able to kill a group member in under half a second. 1-shots fit this nicely.

In the current state of (upper end-)game, we NEED 1-shots. This is a symptom of a very big problem, and it has a side-effect of siphoning depth from the game. Here's what healing should be: a full-time position where the designated healer must devote his energies to healing the group members constantly or the group WILL fail. How is this done? Well, it's actually very simple. Heals must be weak. Raising someone to full health must be a time-consuming process (read: longer than .5 seconds) where it is possible to speed that process up with strong heals but with a proportionate mana cost that poses a serious threat to our ability to maintain healing. Mobs can have piddly damage only if we have piddly heals to counter with; in fact, because our heals are so powerful, the dungeon crew decided the needed to ramp up the damage in dungeons.

If you try a normal dungeon with sub-par-geared lowbie, you will be able to see just how big the power gap is between the very top (which can solo that dungeon) and the very bottom/beginning point for new players (who many take an hour on that dungeon). I'd argue that the power gap has become far too great.

@WhiteMage

Strength of heals has nothing to do with having one shot mechanics since no heal can heal the dead back to life.

One shot mechanics are a means to teach the developing player (and the lazy player) that they must deal with the mechanics, which includes the tank and dps getting interupts. . Works great since it obvious someone messed up.

As for your super strong BoL not having a cost. It works great in 4 man dungeons where that ans repent are enough. Add regen if desired. However, in 12 man vet trials it becomes evident it does have a high cost and becomes the last heal to use due to its inneffectiveness.

Drummerx04 · October 2016

Dracane wrote: »

There is only one thing, that can kill a very good player.
Either a 1 shot mechanic, or draining their important ressource.

Draining ressources is a super skillless mechanic in my opinion. So I rather have 1 shot mechanics, where I have a chance to avoid it.

This is very true, and this is exactly why I HATE Mazzatun. The final boss has a totem that very rapidly drains all resources and has around 400k health, and while this is very burnable on it's own, it tends to pop up at really bad times where focusing the totems can be extremely risky.

The boss also does the hallucination thing which essentially picks a random target without aggro and makes them completely useless for a solid 15 seconds if they can find the correct statue immediately. When the SOTH dungeons came out, the hallucination spray could be dodged. I can only imagine how much more manageable that would make the fight, since I waited a week into live to actually try the dungeon.

The RNG of that fight is usually as follows:

Boss summons adds
boss hist saps healer
boss summons totem
you lose

WhiteMage · October 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@WhiteMage

Strength of heals has nothing to do with having one shot mechanics since no heal can heal the dead back to life.

One shot mechanics are a means to teach the developing player (and the lazy player) that they must deal with the mechanics, which includes the tank and dps getting interupts. . Works great since it obvious someone messed up.

As for your super strong BoL not having a cost. It works great in 4 man dungeons where that ans repent are enough. Add regen if desired. However, in 12 man vet trials it becomes evident it does have a high cost and becomes the last heal to use due to its inneffectiveness.

I think 1-shot mechanics are used for both here. They certainly are there for teaching you the mechanics, but another way they could work is by doing a LOT of damage (that didn't 1-shot, but eventually resulted in death) if we had weak heals. Then the healer could tell that DD that he needs to avoid that because it can't be healed through or whatever. But as it stands, our heals are just too strong, so any mechanic that MUST be paid attention to almost has to be a killshot. However, there super strong attacks are also given to boss skills that don't depend on a particular mechanic, which I believe points to what I said.

BoL is far too powerful in a 4-man dungeon. It's will still do it's job in a 12-man trial, but 2 now-full-health players just dropped from half the group to 16% of the group. If you need to cast it 6 times to fully recover everyone, there is a different problem. Not looking at a particular mechanic or trial, if everyone drops to 20% all at once, that SHOULD ordinarily result is a wipe. Afaik rn, for two healers it isn't that much trouble.

Having said that, I am referring to 4-man content being an indicator of too powerful of healers and overall power creep. Having not run a vet trial I can't speak for it with as much conviction.

Manoekin · October 2016

One shot abilities are nonsense unless they're well telegraphed. A better solution is attacks that can't be healed through.