Dungeon Difficulty - Whaaat?

raasdal · October 2016

What is going on? Last night i was in ICP and the damage i was taking was through the roof. Some mobs had insane HP pools as well i think. Or just took less damage. Heard the same all over the place.

Has normal become the new Vet?

Nirrudn · October 2016

The HP increase is apparently an intended change, per the patch notes. I'm pretty sure the damage increase isn't, but nobody from ZOS has actually confirmed or denied it. I feel like I'm back in Guild Wars 2 with the amount of instant kills flying around in normal mode dungeons.

CultOfMMO · October 2016

I'm so used to queuing for a tank as a stamina dps for random normal for so long now, but after this patch its becoming really rough. Have to do multiple vigors and roll dodges before the mobs are killed, and for the first time in ages, dying is actually a possibility in normals.

I think its particularly the II versions of normals, they are much harder than the I versions. I think ZOS really messed up the scaling. The I versions are still okay, but i dont see how a group of 4 first time players can ever hope to finish any II version of normals.

Hempyre · October 2016

Hp changes were listed but I wouldn't say "working as intended". It's too much.

Ankael07 · October 2016

was it the normal mode you were in? Be cause I've noticed the same thing with CoH 1 . Normal version's mobs would hit harder than veteran's.

Nirrudn · October 2016

Ankael07 wrote: »

was it the normal mode you were in? Be cause I've noticed the same thing with CoH 1 . Normal version's mobs would hit harder than veteran's.

Based on some screenshots of death recaps, certain enemy skills are hitting about 50% harder on normal mode vs Vet mode. (e.g. 6k on normal, but in Vet they would hit you for 4k)

Berenhir · October 2016

I ran CoH I on normal and vet in a duo of sorcs and had the impression that normal mobs are hitting much harder than their vet counterparts.

alexkdd99 · October 2016

Lol. That seems like a pretty big screw up if this is the case.
Normal hitting harder than vet. Hopefully they fix this before console release, but they probably won't.

freespirit · October 2016

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Lol. That seems like a pretty big screw up if this is the case.
Normal hitting harder than vet. Hopefully they fix this before console release, but they probably won't.

It's my understanding that because of Sony and Microsoft's approval times that unfortunately you will most likely get the original update.........

Bugs and all!!

raasdal · October 2016

And then i just did Volenfell vet last night. It litterlly felt like a normal dungeon. Just breezed through. something is definetely not right.

altemriel · October 2016

Ankael07 wrote: »

was it the normal mode you were in? Be cause I've noticed the same thing with CoH 1 . Normal version's mobs would hit harder than veteran's.

LOL really??? WTH ZOS

??

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_RichLambert

redspecter23 · October 2016

I ran through WGT and ICP a number of times tonight before then running vWGT. The mobs in normal seem to have comparable hp to their vet counterparts and vet bosses have more than non vet bosses (as one would expect) but some of the non vet attacks hit for insane damage in comparison. There is no way that normal mobs are intended to hit harder than vet mobs. ZoS, please look into this most recent change as it makes no sense whatsoever.

The harvester ground shock ability in normal was one shotting dps and healers while in vet with the same group it was doing just over half health worth of damage on the same toons. The room with the 3 fire bosses seemed fine on vet, but all the aoe effects were extremely fast kills on normal in comparison. I could stand in the red for up to 3 seconds or more on vet, but over 1 second on normal and I was flat on the ground.

raasdal · October 2016

I am for sure doing Vet Dungeons only. They are the new Normal apparently

vyndral13preub18_ESO · October 2016

raasdal wrote: »

I am for sure doing Vet Dungeons only. They are the new Normal apparently

I will agree with that. Some of the vets feel like they are normal dungeons until you hit that last boss. And then it is like wtf is this?

Scaling certainly seems messed up in some dungeons.

CombatPrayer · October 2016

Normal is complete bugged or they messed up whatever they did to dungeons in the patches. It looks like it is only in the dlc ones and the II versions that they made for normal from what I can tell because I was able to do several the original version on normal (no dlc included) without this kind of issue and with things seeming to be as they were. But something is very wrong unless their intention is to whip everyone on the new normals by giving them vet level damage. If this is their intention they can consider how many people will no longer do randoms because repairs will outweigh any incentive to do them.

CombatPrayer · October 2016

altemriel wrote: »

Ankael07 wrote: »

was it the normal mode you were in? Be cause I've noticed the same thing with CoH 1 . Normal version's mobs would hit harder than veteran's.

LOL really??? WTH ZOS ??

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_RichLambert

This is true. I felt like a brand new scrub in dungeons I normally roll through and take no damage unless I am running my lowbies or new guild low levels. Team wipes were happening more than I have ever seen in a normal dungeon. Someone made some changes and did not pay attention to what they were doing when they did it. That much is clear. It seems to be confined to DLC and II versions of the dungeons as best as I could tell but don't quote me on that. Random queue is likely to land you in a world of hell if you get one of the broken ones.

Asardes · October 2016

CultOfMMO wrote: »

I'm so used to queuing for a tank as a stamina dps for random normal for so long now, but after this patch its becoming really rough. Have to do multiple vigors and roll dodges before the mobs are killed, and for the first time in ages, dying is actually a possibility in normals.

I think its particularly the II versions of normals, they are much harder than the I versions. I think ZOS really messed up the scaling. The I versions are still okay, but i dont see how a group of 4 first time players can ever hope to finish any II version of normals.

It's only your fault you come unprepared for your selected role. I usually kick people ASAP if they have queued for something they are not actually capable of doing, especially healer and tank. It's a good thing that the difficulty has been upped enough for those dungeons to actually require people filling specific roles within the group and actually fulfilling those roles. As for the first time players, the normal version II versions were pretty much as before. I started doing those at VR1, with 0 CP spent and blue training gear, though it was a real tanking set at least.

As for normal being harder than vet, this is indeed a bug which has been pointed out elsewhere, probably introduced by yesterday's patch.

aetherial_heavenn · October 2016

Did vet version fungal and banished cell yesterday with a pug. Took a bit of work but it was fine. Even managed wayrest 1 vet, on hard mode boss on the weekend.

Todays pledges, and the normal randoms we got were all version 2. Couldn't finish one of them. Not even Fungal 2 which I had just done on vet 3 days ago.

Now I am healer so I have a fairly balanced view of difficulty: if i can not keep people alive spamming 2 bars of heals and shields and wards, and the group all has CP points over 250 in a normal dungeon, it's too hard.
In normal dungeons, the 2's (the three I tired today, CoH 2, Fungal 2, BC2, and one other (the ship one with the boss on the beach, in version 2) we died and couldn't finish. It was much harder than AA or SO on normal. Which we had all done at some point

By contrast, the vet dungeons labelled 1 were easy. The mechanics more complex, perhaps the group a little better, because vet pugs often are, but essentially I could heal and debuff the bosses and resource manage the tank without too much trouble...my usual job.

In the normal 2's The adds in the early boss fights killed my templar though my block, blazing shield and while heal spamming springs, and also while using a my healing ult and standing on a ward. I'm pretty bored with the 'don't stand in stupid' sole mechanic in most dungeons in ESO, but at least I knew I could survive it with heals and blocks if i got caught a bit late. Now even that's not possible. Because the red spawns so quickly, the adds do more damage and have higher morale. I generally do normal because ESO requires seeing the red/bubbles/globes/ cone aoe and getting out the way. Playing with 350ms -400ms ping makes this enough of a challenge without adding more.

TL;DR easy Normals (version 1) should be doable by a group of players who pug at any level. The harder normals version2 should need reasonably geared (crafted or purple drops...not gold and BiS) competent players without too much trouble. Vet should be hard enough to be difficult to pug and need the right gear and some decent CP points and an understanding of mechanics.
ATM, vet 1s are like the old normal. And normal 2's are like the hardest of the old non DLC vets.

Something is whack with the tuning.

Nirrudn · October 2016

@aetherial_heavenn

It's already been confirmed as a bug, and will be fixed in the next patch. Until then, I'd stay away from normal modes unless you're with some stellar DPS that can just burn things down before they do insane one-shots. It's a shame they're apparently going to leave them in their bugged form over a weekend where double XP is active.

MissBizz · October 2016

@Nirrudn It's a bit sad about the xp event, but we do have 2 more weekends of the xp event