The illusion of Meta - The hidden balance.
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ThoraxtheDark✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »There's a meta-assertion around Volley's morphs that always makes me chuckle. Apparently, Endless Hail > Arrow Barrage because it's higher DPS.
The truth: they both have exactly the same DPS! They differ in duration of the DoT and cost (2 seconds extra for Endless Hail, lowered cost) vs area of the DoT (almost twice the coverage for Arrow Barrage). By all means, advocate Endless Hail over Arrow Barrage, but don't tell us it's for greater DPS (they're both instant cast). That just makes you look... silly. And in need of a maths refresher.
You're the one who looks silly here. They don't have the same DPS at all. Do your maths and maybe you'll understand (also there might be a good reason why all the best stamina DPS in the best raid groups all use Endless Hail and not Arrow Barrage).
Endless Hail lasts for 10 seconds as opposed to 8. So you have 2 extra seconds to do something else than refresh the DoT. The more often you have to refresh a DoT the more DPS you lose. Why? Because instead of reapplying Arrow Barrage you could be using a skill that does more damage, for example Rapid Strikes or putting down a different DoT.
Also with the Maelstrom bow, your ticks get stronger every 0.5 seconds. Which means that in the 2 extra seconds you get 4 more ticks from Endless Hail.
The larger AoE could be better for anything other than Boss fights, but your DPS mostly matters in boss fights right? You aren't going to wipe to trash right? No you're going to wipe to Rakkhat or the Warrior or the Mage or the Serpent. So your DPS matters more in boss fights and Endless Hail has 4 extra ticks that all get empowered by the vMA bow (aka more DPS).
Please don't say that the boss might move so the extra radius will have an advantage. Any tank who knows wtf he's doing will keep the boss nice and still.
So your saying you leave no room for error in your combat crafting (which is silly). Whos to say your tank loses aggro for those 2 seconds at any given time, its not an impossibility to think. also not every one has the maelstrom bow. The maelstrom bow is not a necessity to have, its just a small bonus you get from a skill everyone has access to.
There are just as many situations a larger AOE can be handy. Most groups dont even run with tanks and every trial has a different formation depending on the group leader.
If you are stuck doing the same thing over and over and expect results, that is essentially the definition of insanity..0 -
Merlight✭✭✭✭✭ThoraxtheDark wrote: »If you are stuck doing the same thing over and over and expect results, that is essentially the definition of insanity..
It's always better to quote a genius word by word. Otherwise you run the risk of getting unexpected results. Such as saying something stupid
EU ‣ Wabbajack nostalgic ‣ Blackwater Blade defender ‣ Kyne wanderer
The offspring of the root of all evil in ESO by DeanTheCat
Why ESO needs a monthly subscription
When an MMO is designed around a revenue model rather than around fun, it doesn’t have a long-term future. ― Richard A. Bartle
Their idea of transparent, at least when it comes to communication, bears a striking resemblance to a block of coal. ― lordrichter
... in the balance of power between the accountants and marketing types against the artists, developers and those who generally want to build and run a good game then that balance needs to always be in favour of the latter - because the former will drag the game into the ground for every last bean they can squeeze out of it. ― Santie Claws5 -
Moglijuana✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Well if you can tell me how to counter a black rose and viper 5 heavy stamina dk with shuffle, wings, and sword and board on my magblade I'm all ears
Fasalla's Guile0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThoraxtheDark wrote: »IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »There's a meta-assertion around Volley's morphs that always makes me chuckle. Apparently, Endless Hail > Arrow Barrage because it's higher DPS.
The truth: they both have exactly the same DPS! They differ in duration of the DoT and cost (2 seconds extra for Endless Hail, lowered cost) vs area of the DoT (almost twice the coverage for Arrow Barrage). By all means, advocate Endless Hail over Arrow Barrage, but don't tell us it's for greater DPS (they're both instant cast). That just makes you look... silly. And in need of a maths refresher.
You're the one who looks silly here. They don't have the same DPS at all. Do your maths and maybe you'll understand (also there might be a good reason why all the best stamina DPS in the best raid groups all use Endless Hail and not Arrow Barrage).
Endless Hail lasts for 10 seconds as opposed to 8. So you have 2 extra seconds to do something else than refresh the DoT. The more often you have to refresh a DoT the more DPS you lose. Why? Because instead of reapplying Arrow Barrage you could be using a skill that does more damage, for example Rapid Strikes or putting down a different DoT.
Also with the Maelstrom bow, your ticks get stronger every 0.5 seconds. Which means that in the 2 extra seconds you get 4 more ticks from Endless Hail.
The larger AoE could be better for anything other than Boss fights, but your DPS mostly matters in boss fights right? You aren't going to wipe to trash right? No you're going to wipe to Rakkhat or the Warrior or the Mage or the Serpent. So your DPS matters more in boss fights and Endless Hail has 4 extra ticks that all get empowered by the vMA bow (aka more DPS).
Please don't say that the boss might move so the extra radius will have an advantage. Any tank who knows wtf he's doing will keep the boss nice and still.
So your saying you leave no room for error in your combat crafting (which is silly). Whos to say your tank loses aggro for those 2 seconds at any given time, its not an impossibility to think. also not every one has the maelstrom bow. The maelstrom bow is not a necessity to have, its just a small bonus you get from a skill everyone has access to.
There are just as many situations a larger AOE can be handy. Most groups dont even run with tanks and every trial has a different formation depending on the group leader.
If you are stuck doing the same thing over and over and expect results, that is essentially the definition of insanity..
Longer duration of hail is what makes it BiS, no one runs the other morph and for good reason. Also this is a fact regardless of group composition.0 -
SanderBuraas✭✭✭✭✭now we have stam bow builds wrecking people with poison injections, widow maker, lethal arrow, and etc.
Why would a bow build use Widowmaker? It's a set for close range.
Ill tell you what's not the meta.
Magicka DKs
Magicka sorcs
Magicka nb
That is not true. Magicka builds deal the most dps in end-game pve, with the exception of bosses you can safely stay close to, where dual wield can shine.
Magicka Dragonknights, Sorcerers and Nightblades are also dominant in duels. You must not have fought someone good.0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThoraxtheDark wrote: »
So your saying you leave no room for error in your combat crafting (which is silly). Whos to say your tank loses aggro for those 2 seconds at any given time, its not an impossibility to think. also not every one has the maelstrom bow. The maelstrom bow is not a necessity to have, its just a small bonus you get from a skill everyone has access to.
There are just as many situations a larger AOE can be handy. Most groups dont even run with tanks and every trial has a different formation depending on the group leader.
If you are stuck doing the same thing over and over and expect results, that is essentially the definition of insanity..
Lol are you trolling?
1. If a tank loses aggro - he's either bad or fell asleep because the dps was too low. It's impossible to lose aggro on the boss in this game, since there's no threat system. All tank needs to do is keep the taunt debuff up.
2. Let's say such error is possible. It will be very rare. Are you saying that's it's better to combat craft a build around the error as opposed to ideal situation since we're talking pve and it's a controlled environment?
3. Even if the bow is not a necessity to have, you get more dps and better resource management with a longer dot. A guy above already explained it to you.
4. Just as many situations? Highly doubt it.
5. Lolwyt? Most groups don't run with tanks? Are you talking about groups who grind public dungeons or something? Or old dungeons? And what trials formations are different? As in, no tank in trials? Are you talking about normal trials?
Well in all those things it doesn't matter what you use at all. Why would you minmax/theorycraft for them (that is assuming there are situations where larger aoe is better, which I know precisely 0).
6. The original quote says expect different results doing the same thing, not just results.1 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Alright genius, let's say we buy your "there's no meta" BS. Since everyone switching to meta builds allows people to then play the counters in "rock, paper, scissors" please tell me what the "Paper" counter to the "Rock" that is 5 Blackrose 5 Viper 2 Tremor/Selene/veli2 -
SanderBuraas✭✭✭✭✭Alright genius, let's say we buy your "there's no meta" BS. Since everyone switching to meta builds allows people to then play the counters in "rock, paper, scissors" please tell me what the "Paper" counter to the "Rock" that is 5 Blackrose 5 Viper 2 Tremor/Selene/veli
Exactly. I could easily also use Black Rose, Viper and Tremorscale or Velidreth, since they are insanely strong, but I would rather not further pollute the pvp scene.1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Alright genius, let's say we buy your "there's no meta" BS. Since everyone switching to meta builds allows people to then play the counters in "rock, paper, scissors" please tell me what the "Paper" counter to the "Rock" that is 5 Blackrose 5 Viper 2 Tremor/Selene/veli
Exactly. I could easily also use Black Rose, Viper and Tremorscale or Velidreth, since they are insanely strong, but I would rather not further pollute the pvp scene.
Pre-1T, I've used a 30k physical resistance benchmark to help deal with the viper/veil combo. Granted this is as a Templar support tank, my role was never shy on using fasalles guile, giving my sorc teammates crutial heals and capitalizing on low health enemies with RD. While I did less than desired consistent damage, I was rarely killed by stealth nightblades or the combo above.
This update I pulled my physical resistance down so I end up at 25k and my traits were focused for PVE. Got hit for more dmg than I wanted. Will need to test if my original setup worked and if my new ideas will be functional.
Still too early to tell since most people are still farming sets and enjoying the pve content.
I'm curious if anyone tested grothdarr monster set in pvp yet?
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well, this thread started good with good intentions. I just had to scroll down a couple posts to see the flaming and arguing over maths. Does everything have to be a *** measuring contest with you spreadsheet warriors?1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Alright genius, let's say we buy your "there's no meta" BS. Since everyone switching to meta builds allows people to then play the counters in "rock, paper, scissors" please tell me what the "Paper" counter to the "Rock" that is 5 Blackrose 5 Viper 2 Tremor/Selene/veli
I actually found it over the last few days. I spent a month building a new character to try and figure out how to combat it, and then it dawned on me that the exact way to combat the meta is stay with my light armor Magplar, but add in the blue beam of death from the soul magic line to FANTASTIC RESULTS. My gankings have decreased easily 50% because (since it only costs me 95 ultimate) I have it ready almost always. When I get ganked ... bam ... blue beam to the face. They either insta die (rarely) or have to block. When they block they use up a ton of stamina. At that point it becomes a pretty normal fight.
Here is my set up. It's not for everyone but it's working great for me. I recently became a mostly solo player and have been turning in kill 20s with less than 5 deaths frequently.
Magplar
5 light, 2 heavy, All Infused, All magic enchant, spell power enchants on jewelry.
5 Julianos
5 VD
1 Kena
Destro - BoL, RD, Javelin, Inner Light, Structured Entropy, Shatter Soul (double explosion proc with VD)
Resto - BoL, Rapids, Mist Form, IL, SE, Ice Comet
Just adding Shatter Soul has fixed the game for me. Seriously. It never really occurred to me to use it at close range but it's basically a magic shotgun to stam builds. I'm sure Soul Assault would work great too. Enjoy!0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭These sound like the thoughts of someone who is not very experienced in PvP.
"The meta? So lots of people are run a few of the same sets and builds! I'll just counter that and be super good!"
Why do you THINK everyone is running the same sets as Stamina?... omg
You can oneshot people with instant burst damage now thanks to new sets in One Tamriel, all the while remaining a tank with powerful heals, sustain, and damage.
Check out Fengrush's newest build for Stamina. I rarely point out builds that streamers make, but the setup I'm mentioning is seriously broken OP. He is using one of the many broken OP setups this patch, but it is so strong it practically beats out anything we've had in past metas. You look as if you're using Cheat Engine almost when running the exact same setup as him. And tbh there is no blaming Fengrush when the opportunity is available.
ZOS if you see a meta forming around clearly OP gear, with sharpened swords selling between 200K-1M, you need to L2Balance that gear!Edited by Vaoh on October 12, 2016 4:13PM2 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭These sound like the thoughts of someone who is not very experienced in PvP.
"The meta? So lots of people are run a few of the same sets and builds! I'll just counter that and be super good!"
Why do you THINK everyone is running the same sets as Stamina?... omg
You can oneshot people with instant burst damage now thanks to new sets in One Tamriel, all the while remaining a tank with powerful heals, sustain, and damage.
Check out Fengrush's newest build for Stamina. I rarely point out builds that streamers make, but the setup I'm mentioning is seriously broken OP. He is using one of the many broken OP setups this patch, but it is so strong it practically beats out anything we've had in past metas. You look as if you're using Cheat Engine almost when running the exact same setup as him. And tbh there is no blaming Fengrush when the opportunity is available.
ZOS if you see a meta forming around clearly OP gear, with sharpened swords selling between 200K-1M, you need to L2Balance that gear!
I'm VERY experienced in PVP and agreed with you until 3 days ago. Look at my suggestion above. The results have been amazing. Everyone is looking so hard for a counter. It's been sitting unused at the top of the Soul Magic skill line the whole time.0 -
SanderBuraas✭✭✭✭✭Alright genius, let's say we buy your "there's no meta" BS. Since everyone switching to meta builds allows people to then play the counters in "rock, paper, scissors" please tell me what the "Paper" counter to the "Rock" that is 5 Blackrose 5 Viper 2 Tremor/Selene/veli
Exactly. I could easily also use Black Rose, Viper and Tremorscale or Velidreth, since they are insanely strong, but I would rather not further pollute the pvp scene.
Pre-1T, I've used a 30k physical resistance benchmark to help deal with the viper/veil combo. Granted this is as a Templar support tank, my role was never shy on using fasalles guile, giving my sorc teammates crutial heals and capitalizing on low health enemies with RD. While I did less than desired consistent damage, I was rarely killed by stealth nightblades or the combo above.
This update I pulled my physical resistance down so I end up at 25k and my traits were focused for PVE. Got hit for more dmg than I wanted. Will need to test if my original setup worked and if my new ideas will be functional.
Still too early to tell since most people are still farming sets and enjoying the pve content.
I'm curious if anyone tested grothdarr monster set in pvp yet?
The meta is not Viper and Velidreth on it's own. Everyone run Black Rose, meaning full heavy, full impen, yet not losing out on any damage. They have insane sustain, survivability and damage.danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »These sound like the thoughts of someone who is not very experienced in PvP.
"The meta? So lots of people are run a few of the same sets and builds! I'll just counter that and be super good!"
Why do you THINK everyone is running the same sets as Stamina?... omg
You can oneshot people with instant burst damage now thanks to new sets in One Tamriel, all the while remaining a tank with powerful heals, sustain, and damage.
Check out Fengrush's newest build for Stamina. I rarely point out builds that streamers make, but the setup I'm mentioning is seriously broken OP. He is using one of the many broken OP setups this patch, but it is so strong it practically beats out anything we've had in past metas. You look as if you're using Cheat Engine almost when running the exact same setup as him. And tbh there is no blaming Fengrush when the opportunity is available.
ZOS if you see a meta forming around clearly OP gear, with sharpened swords selling between 200K-1M, you need to L2Balance that gear!
I'm VERY experienced in PVP and agreed with you until 3 days ago. Look at my suggestion above. The results have been amazing. Everyone is looking so hard for a counter. It's been sitting unused at the top of the Soul Magic skill line the whole time.
You will not kill anyone with heavy armour using Soul Strike, it can very easily be outhealed. If you believe a light armour build using Soul Strike is the counter to current meta, I doubt you are experienced with pvp.2 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Balancing meta Does Not revolve around 1v1s -- that said I've seen plenty heavy armor, s&b, black rose and viper users falling to magdks, sorcs and nbs. So I'll say, skill triumphs over meta builds. Or in those other popular words, l2p.When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Alright genius, let's say we buy your "there's no meta" BS. Since everyone switching to meta builds allows people to then play the counters in "rock, paper, scissors" please tell me what the "Paper" counter to the "Rock" that is 5 Blackrose 5 Viper 2 Tremor/Selene/veli
Exactly. I could easily also use Black Rose, Viper and Tremorscale or Velidreth, since they are insanely strong, but I would rather not further pollute the pvp scene.
Pre-1T, I've used a 30k physical resistance benchmark to help deal with the viper/veil combo. Granted this is as a Templar support tank, my role was never shy on using fasalles guile, giving my sorc teammates crutial heals and capitalizing on low health enemies with RD. While I did less than desired consistent damage, I was rarely killed by stealth nightblades or the combo above.
This update I pulled my physical resistance down so I end up at 25k and my traits were focused for PVE. Got hit for more dmg than I wanted. Will need to test if my original setup worked and if my new ideas will be functional.
Still too early to tell since most people are still farming sets and enjoying the pve content.
I'm curious if anyone tested grothdarr monster set in pvp yet?
The meta is not Viper and Velidreth on it's own. Everyone run Black Rose, meaning full heavy, full impen, yet not losing out on any damage. They have insane sustain, survivability and damage.danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »These sound like the thoughts of someone who is not very experienced in PvP.
"The meta? So lots of people are run a few of the same sets and builds! I'll just counter that and be super good!"
Why do you THINK everyone is running the same sets as Stamina?... omg
You can oneshot people with instant burst damage now thanks to new sets in One Tamriel, all the while remaining a tank with powerful heals, sustain, and damage.
Check out Fengrush's newest build for Stamina. I rarely point out builds that streamers make, but the setup I'm mentioning is seriously broken OP. He is using one of the many broken OP setups this patch, but it is so strong it practically beats out anything we've had in past metas. You look as if you're using Cheat Engine almost when running the exact same setup as him. And tbh there is no blaming Fengrush when the opportunity is available.
ZOS if you see a meta forming around clearly OP gear, with sharpened swords selling between 200K-1M, you need to L2Balance that gear!
I'm VERY experienced in PVP and agreed with you until 3 days ago. Look at my suggestion above. The results have been amazing. Everyone is looking so hard for a counter. It's been sitting unused at the top of the Soul Magic skill line the whole time.
You will not kill anyone with heavy armour using Soul Strike, it can very easily be outhealed. If you believe a light armour build using Soul Strike is the counter to current meta, I doubt you are experienced with pvp.
The strategy is not to target HA but that annoying viper/veli stam player that's squishy. With his gear, he aims to proc VD and Shatter soul (15k each to all enemies in the range) and the claim isn't wrong.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
xblackroxe✭✭✭✭✭Moglijuana wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Well if you can tell me how to counter a black rose and viper 5 heavy stamina dk with shuffle, wings, and sword and board on my magblade I'm all ears
Fasalla's Guile
LoL
Thats the answer vs every build out there.
Member of HODOR
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Alright genius, let's say we buy your "there's no meta" BS. Since everyone switching to meta builds allows people to then play the counters in "rock, paper, scissors" please tell me what the "Paper" counter to the "Rock" that is 5 Blackrose 5 Viper 2 Tremor/Selene/veli
Exactly. I could easily also use Black Rose, Viper and Tremorscale or Velidreth, since they are insanely strong, but I would rather not further pollute the pvp scene.
Pre-1T, I've used a 30k physical resistance benchmark to help deal with the viper/veil combo. Granted this is as a Templar support tank, my role was never shy on using fasalles guile, giving my sorc teammates crutial heals and capitalizing on low health enemies with RD. While I did less than desired consistent damage, I was rarely killed by stealth nightblades or the combo above.
This update I pulled my physical resistance down so I end up at 25k and my traits were focused for PVE. Got hit for more dmg than I wanted. Will need to test if my original setup worked and if my new ideas will be functional.
Still too early to tell since most people are still farming sets and enjoying the pve content.
I'm curious if anyone tested grothdarr monster set in pvp yet?
The meta is not Viper and Velidreth on it's own. Everyone run Black Rose, meaning full heavy, full impen, yet not losing out on any damage. They have insane sustain, survivability and damage.danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »These sound like the thoughts of someone who is not very experienced in PvP.
"The meta? So lots of people are run a few of the same sets and builds! I'll just counter that and be super good!"
Why do you THINK everyone is running the same sets as Stamina?... omg
You can oneshot people with instant burst damage now thanks to new sets in One Tamriel, all the while remaining a tank with powerful heals, sustain, and damage.
Check out Fengrush's newest build for Stamina. I rarely point out builds that streamers make, but the setup I'm mentioning is seriously broken OP. He is using one of the many broken OP setups this patch, but it is so strong it practically beats out anything we've had in past metas. You look as if you're using Cheat Engine almost when running the exact same setup as him. And tbh there is no blaming Fengrush when the opportunity is available.
ZOS if you see a meta forming around clearly OP gear, with sharpened swords selling between 200K-1M, you need to L2Balance that gear!
I'm VERY experienced in PVP and agreed with you until 3 days ago. Look at my suggestion above. The results have been amazing. Everyone is looking so hard for a counter. It's been sitting unused at the top of the Soul Magic skill line the whole time.
You will not kill anyone with heavy armour using Soul Strike, it can very easily be outhealed. If you believe a light armour build using Soul Strike is the counter to current meta, I doubt you are experienced with pvp.
The strategy is not to target HA but that annoying viper/veli stam player that's squishy. With his gear, he aims to proc VD and Shatter soul (15k each to all enemies in the range) and the claim isn't wrong. But it looks more like a build to combat zergs more than solo play.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
SanderBuraas✭✭✭✭✭Balancing meta Does Not revolve around 1v1s -- that said I've seen plenty heavy armor, s&b, black rose and viper users falling to magdks, sorcs and nbs. So I'll say, skill triumphs over meta builds. Or in those other popular words, l2p.
Yes, it does. It is the most fair pvp in the game. You can't judge fairly when other factors are involved, such as sneak and other players.
If two players of equal skill were to fight, the player with the stronger build would win. You can't say skill triumphs when there are builds involved.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, this thread started good with good intentions. I just had to scroll down a couple posts to see the flaming and arguing over maths. Does everything have to be a *** measuring contest with you spreadsheet warriors?
@Kodrac
The game is built on math. It's a mere fact that the inputs into the formula determin the output. Gearing is a big part of determining how hard a skill will hit.
Seriously, gear as you want but do not come down on those that point out errors on the OPs premise because you want to ay differently that most effective possibility.
I do believe everyone should play as they want. It's why we have many, many guilds on each server.2 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Balancing meta Does Not revolve around 1v1s -- that said I've seen plenty heavy armor, s&b, black rose and viper users falling to magdks, sorcs and nbs. So I'll say, skill triumphs over meta builds. Or in those other popular words, l2p.
Yes, it does. It is the most fair pvp in the game. You can't judge fairly when other factors are involved, such as sneak and other players.
If two players of equal skill were to fight, the player with the stronger build would win. You can't say skill triumphs when there are builds involved.
Dueling is the most broke pvp in the game.
There is no skill in duels anymore it's about builds and proc sets.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
ThoraxtheDark wrote: »Does anyone else notice that Players seem to deduce all the sets into the game into a few. (That are worth using). Okay this is an obvious one, and this stems from the specific Races, Classes and passives etc that can be selected that are the optimal choice for doing DPS etc (whatever you are trying to do).
The "meta" gets out there and is used by all who want to make their character the "strongest". But in reality there is no strongest build and i will give you examples why -
Enemy has 11k physcial resist, you have spriggans thorns , using your regular debuffs on the enemy, lets say you debuff to 18k. you are wasting 7k pen on air.
using hundings rage for consistent dps ( your fighting is not always consistent , sometimes burst is better rather than over all time. )
Usually the builds intertwine with specific skills , leaving no room for different options when a certain skill has everything you need. You need endless hail with maelstrom bow , doesnt mean you cant have endless hail without the bow. If you are going down that route than yes thats the best option, but it isnt the best option for DPS, just for that situation with those skills and set pieces.
As soon as someone discovers a new "meta" , a build countering it can be created. There is no Meta, rather a elaborate and slow process of rock paper scissors is ensuing. I see so many people limiting themselves to 1 particular play style and i see them lose in pvp or pve and than they wonder why they die.
Situational is the name of the game. Watch the updates and new sets and do not be afraid to try out a set you find interesting, if you have an idea for utilizing a set mechanic its usually worth going for. Those mechanics aren't always the easiest to see.
seems you dont know what meta is. pvp wise, the cycles of people discovering/using particular builds other people countering the popular builds IS META lol
its not about whats best, its about what is popular, which obviously consists of what is very strong. but the fact of its popularity can make something not usually good into something spectacular. like armor pen set, sure in light armor meta its terrible but right now everyone is in heavy so its going to give value on 95% of targets. if they buff light and the meta shifts that way you adjust to fight light builds better. thats what meta consists of. what you said is completely nonsense.
if you want to be competitive you need to consider meta, you dont have to copy the most popular build, often its better to counter it, but either way you have to consider what the majority is doing maximise your build.1 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Balancing meta Does Not revolve around 1v1s -- that said I've seen plenty heavy armor, s&b, black rose and viper users falling to magdks, sorcs and nbs. So I'll say, skill triumphs over meta builds. Or in those other popular words, l2p.
Yes, it does. It is the most fair pvp in the game. You can't judge fairly when other factors are involved, such as sneak and other players.
If two players of equal skill were to fight, the player with the stronger build would win. You can't say skill triumphs when there are builds involved.
There is no such thing as two players of equal skill. There is only which player outplayed the other one on this particular fight, wich can be done, for the most part, regardless of particular builds.
If you look close at 1v1s you'll see that heavy armor stams aren't as dominant as it seems to be.When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.2 -
SanderBuraas✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Balancing meta Does Not revolve around 1v1s -- that said I've seen plenty heavy armor, s&b, black rose and viper users falling to magdks, sorcs and nbs. So I'll say, skill triumphs over meta builds. Or in those other popular words, l2p.
Yes, it does. It is the most fair pvp in the game. You can't judge fairly when other factors are involved, such as sneak and other players.
If two players of equal skill were to fight, the player with the stronger build would win. You can't say skill triumphs when there are builds involved.
Dueling is the most broke pvp in the game.
There is no skill in duels anymore it's about builds and proc sets.
The current heavy armour meta is broken, not the duels.Balancing meta Does Not revolve around 1v1s -- that said I've seen plenty heavy armor, s&b, black rose and viper users falling to magdks, sorcs and nbs. So I'll say, skill triumphs over meta builds. Or in those other popular words, l2p.
Yes, it does. It is the most fair pvp in the game. You can't judge fairly when other factors are involved, such as sneak and other players.
If two players of equal skill were to fight, the player with the stronger build would win. You can't say skill triumphs when there are builds involved.
There is no such thing as two players of equal skill. There is only which player outplayed the other one on this particular fight, wich can be done, for the most part, regardless of particular builds.
If you look close at 1v1s you'll see that heavy armor stams aren't as dominant as it seems to be.
Do you even pvp, let alone duel?Edited by SanderBuraas on October 12, 2016 7:18PM0 -
Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Well, this thread started good with good intentions. I just had to scroll down a couple posts to see the flaming and arguing over maths. Does everything have to be a *** measuring contest with you spreadsheet warriors?
@Kodrac
The game is built on math. It's a mere fact that the inputs into the formula determin the output. Gearing is a big part of determining how hard a skill will hit.
Seriously, gear as you want but do not come down on those that point out errors on the OPs premise because you want to ay differently that most effective possibility.
I do believe everyone should play as they want. It's why we have many, many guilds on each server.
That's nice and all, but you missed the point of my question... Does everything have to be an e-peen measuring contest? The hostility and mockery is ridiculous. It's just a game, man.1 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Balancing meta Does Not revolve around 1v1s -- that said I've seen plenty heavy armor, s&b, black rose and viper users falling to magdks, sorcs and nbs. So I'll say, skill triumphs over meta builds. Or in those other popular words, l2p.
Yes, it does. It is the most fair pvp in the game. You can't judge fairly when other factors are involved, such as sneak and other players.
If two players of equal skill were to fight, the player with the stronger build would win. You can't say skill triumphs when there are builds involved.Balancing meta Does Not revolve around 1v1s -- that said I've seen plenty heavy armor, s&b, black rose and viper users falling to magdks, sorcs and nbs. So I'll say, skill triumphs over meta builds. Or in those other popular words, l2p.
Yes, it does. It is the most fair pvp in the game. You can't judge fairly when other factors are involved, such as sneak and other players.
If two players of equal skill were to fight, the player with the stronger build would win. You can't say skill triumphs when there are builds involved.
There is no such thing as two players of equal skill. There is only which player outplayed the other one on this particular fight, wich can be done, for the most part, regardless of particular builds.
If you look close at 1v1s you'll see that heavy armor stams aren't as dominant as it seems to be.
Do you even pvp, let alone duel?
Oh do you? If anything most dominant spec for 1v1s are magdks, so cut this bs of heavy meta so op cj off already. Yes they are strong, but not oppresive strong. l2p
And before you ask I play solely magsorcs
Edited by SanTii.92 on October 12, 2016 7:48PMWhen the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Well, this thread started good with good intentions. I just had to scroll down a couple posts to see the flaming and arguing over maths. Does everything have to be a *** measuring contest with you spreadsheet warriors?
@Kodrac
The game is built on math. It's a mere fact that the inputs into the formula determin the output. Gearing is a big part of determining how hard a skill will hit.
Seriously, gear as you want but do not come down on those that point out errors on the OPs premise because you want to ay differently that most effective possibility.
I do believe everyone should play as they want. It's why we have many, many guilds on each server.
That's nice and all, but you missed the point of my question... Does everything have to be an e-peen measuring contest? The hostility and mockery is ridiculous. It's just a game, man.
When a thread is created it is done to start a conversation. When that thread is based on a false premise and people rush expressing warm fuzzy feelings as though it's logic supporting he original false premise the conversation is bound to get somewhat testy when theorycrafters comment on their methods in response to comments that are directed towards the crafters methods.
It's life. It's what happens when those warm fuzzy feelings get involved.
If the thread was focused on trying to start a discussion about unique builds players had fun with but understood it was less than optimal things may have been different. Maybe.
Again, hey, okay as you want. Enjoy your game. Constantly seek to learn more. It's all good.2 -
ThoraxtheDark✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Well, this thread started good with good intentions. I just had to scroll down a couple posts to see the flaming and arguing over maths. Does everything have to be a *** measuring contest with you spreadsheet warriors?
@Kodrac
The game is built on math. It's a mere fact that the inputs into the formula determin the output. Gearing is a big part of determining how hard a skill will hit.
Seriously, gear as you want but do not come down on those that point out errors on the OPs premise because you want to ay differently that most effective possibility.
I do believe everyone should play as they want. It's why we have many, many guilds on each server.
That's nice and all, but you missed the point of my question... Does everything have to be an e-peen measuring contest? The hostility and mockery is ridiculous. It's just a game, man.
When a thread is created it is done to start a conversation. When that thread is based on a false premise and people rush expressing warm fuzzy feelings as though it's logic supporting he original false premise the conversation is bound to get somewhat testy when theorycrafters comment on their methods in response to comments that are directed towards the crafters methods.
It's life. It's what happens when those warm fuzzy feelings get involved.
If the thread was focused on trying to start a discussion about unique builds players had fun with but understood it was less than optimal things may have been different. Maybe.
Again, hey, okay as you want. Enjoy your game. Constantly seek to learn more. It's all good.
You and the mathletes are the only ones assuming its predicated on a false premise. That fact only is relative.
And in regards to theory crafters , i feel like they are just failed game designers lol, all this time and effort into a video game should only be rewarded with money , not warm and fuzzy feelings. That is what having a girlfriend / boyfriend is for lol.
The previous guy was correct, theres no reason to be hard on people and the fact of the matter is, this game is a diverse and ever changing pile of numbers and you can literally "Theory craft" all day, in makes no difference.0 -
sadownik✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThoraxtheDark wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Well, this thread started good with good intentions. I just had to scroll down a couple posts to see the flaming and arguing over maths. Does everything have to be a *** measuring contest with you spreadsheet warriors?
@Kodrac
The game is built on math. It's a mere fact that the inputs into the formula determin the output. Gearing is a big part of determining how hard a skill will hit.
Seriously, gear as you want but do not come down on those that point out errors on the OPs premise because you want to ay differently that most effective possibility.
I do believe everyone should play as they want. It's why we have many, many guilds on each server.
That's nice and all, but you missed the point of my question... Does everything have to be an e-peen measuring contest? The hostility and mockery is ridiculous. It's just a game, man.
When a thread is created it is done to start a conversation. When that thread is based on a false premise and people rush expressing warm fuzzy feelings as though it's logic supporting he original false premise the conversation is bound to get somewhat testy when theorycrafters comment on their methods in response to comments that are directed towards the crafters methods.
It's life. It's what happens when those warm fuzzy feelings get involved.
If the thread was focused on trying to start a discussion about unique builds players had fun with but understood it was less than optimal things may have been different. Maybe.
Again, hey, okay as you want. Enjoy your game. Constantly seek to learn more. It's all good.
You and the mathletes are the only ones assuming its predicated on a false premise. That fact only is relative.
And in regards to theory crafters , i feel like they are just failed game designers lol, all this time and effort into a video game should only be rewarded with money , not warm and fuzzy feelings. That is what having a girlfriend / boyfriend is for lol.
The previous guy was correct, theres no reason to be hard on people and the fact of the matter is, this game is a diverse and ever changing pile of numbers and you can literally "Theory craft" all day, in makes no difference.
Im sorry mate but you are false. The meta is real and you will feel it wraith soon when more adn more people will start using it since Fengrush showd how strong his build is. But good luck...0