Too Many 531's without a clue.

Amica · October 2016

Please lord of darkness ... Smite the pve players.

karldavy149b16_ESO · October 2016

Zakor wrote: »

Before 1T: PUG success chance by ~60%, depending on dungeon
Now: PUG Success chance by ~10%. Seriously, I joined 6 different groups just yesterday, had to clean up 2 screwed runs (which didn't help me since I missed a pledge boss by that) and had success with just one group. I'm not sure if the vet Content is so much harder (enemies have hell more LP but that's it...) or people with damn low DPS queue more... On the other hand I think the scaling alone is too bad for dungeons. If I see that cp60 chars do less DPS than my heal/buff DK with only talons as "damage" skill on bar...well.
Imho there should be something like a test before you are allowed to enter a dungeon in a specific role. There should be difficulty tiers to allow you queuing normal, queuing vet and queuing vetdlc (or smth similar). Additionally, if you want to run the vet dungeon, you HAVE to run the normal dungeon first to learn it's mechanics. Easy as that I think.
DPS check isn't that hard to implement, first level maybe a non moving enemy to just check damage, second level with movement and third level is movement, care for adds, cleanse that and so on. Similar for healing and tanking (I hate DPS that queue as tank... 19k LP, oneshotet by every tankmechanic, no shield an no taunt but surely a tank... )
From lore perspective it could be implemented as "undaunted training" where some of the undaunted train you in combat. Sounds awesome for me.

ive had a 100% succes rate with my pugs and thats all i do .... take volenvol yesterday .. 3 different runs i had the dps say we need to burn healer i was like ok yeah lets do it your way ... usually the dps sucked cus i (tank was kiting like a mofo that 31k hit hurts on a 29k health tank ) and they had no real uptime on the boss so after a few wipes my response should be to quit right .... HELL NO

it was hey lets do it this way healer kite red tank kite green/dps burn blue ....

sure as hell we downed them all on first time attempt sometimes players gotta see the good and the bad to make a choice ... i did have one dps quit cus he called me an overbearing tank that new nothing lol .

generally alot of good players out there if a dps refuses to change build namely bow users that do nothing but light attacks well vote to kick gets initiated .... the only issue i have is that eso need to change how pledges work to back filled players ...

i will leave a pledge group if its in progress cus i get no credit ... the pledge if im back filled should update to the groups current situation ... im 100% sure if eso rolled this out alot more pugging will happen

as for dps checks 90% of all dungeons have no dps check just mechanics checks pure and simple gimme a 10k dps who never dies over a 30k dps thats spends 50% of his time dead on the ground

MarkusLiberty · October 2016

By the time I was done with my Alliance questline, the gold and silver questline and all the story driven DLCs I was at CP 290. casually doing daily quests and playing alts will get you to CP 531 in no time at all. This is what most casual players do.

I don't think CP should be a measurement of experience for any kind of end game content, there are plenty of max CP players who have hardly done any pledges at all.

I don't think that's any reason to mock them however, part of playing MMOs is being open to teach other people how to play various parts of the game. If you dont want to run the risk of playing with "noobs" you're probably better off joining a guild.

jrgray93 · October 2016

From the moment people started listing their CP in chat to find groups, I thought, "this is stupid."

It turned out to be true. I've encountered plenty of CP-capped people who are absolutely awful at the game.

Juhasow · October 2016

Cp is nothing skill is everything.

Garrick · October 2016

I guess my question is, how did you people who know what to do learn it in the first place? I would really like to be more effective in dungeons, but I only get better by learning through mistakes. I join PUGs and I am usually not the worst but I am by no means close to the best. It seems like the more experienced people have a choice to make:

1. All join a guild of experienced people. Ignore everyone else. Wait for game to die.
2. Help people get up to speed. At least, the ones like me who would actually like to do better.

I think most players want to do better. The problem is, there is just as much - if not more - bad advice as there is good advice. I don't watch YouTube stuff because (a) I don't trust it and (b) I don't have time. I thought maybe I had to make time, but some people here state that learning like that is bad because you do not have a "feel" for the skills.

Anyway. L2P. But how? Other than by bad PUG experiences.

Woeler · October 2016

but but but play the way you want... !!!1!!!!!!11!!

OrphanHelgen · October 2016

Its too common in this game, to talk negative about elitists. Its like a bad thing here.
Yes I enjoy to pug as well, and talk to some new players and chill.
But I experience the exact same thing as you, I even wrote a post about it myself. I can mention again what I saw in a veteran banished cell from group tool:

Tank didnt taunt. I had aggro more then him. Healer didnt heal, spammed rapid regen only. And last DD', light attacked with a 1H and shield. Last thing looks like im joking, but Im not.

I had aggro on the fire dude boss in vet banished, he did not stood in trap or endless hail because he was moving around. I had to self heal and block, and got no dmg buffs at all. I am still suprised with my result, where I ended up with 34 dps or something. Then I look at group dps in combat metrics, and see that group dps is 38k. This is just awkward to look at.

My post written in half rage about this, was more about the knowledge about veteran dungeons, where people have no clue what they queue for or why. They want to complete hardest content, but they dont want to read their own skills.

I am fully ok with people role playing and dont want to pull dps and still complete dungeons, but pls dont do this in veteran dungeons!

Pangnirtung · October 2016

What's with all the hate?

Everyone plays the game for different reasons.

Everyone has different abilities and disabilities in real life.

Don't like the way that I play? Tamriel is a huge place. Rather than focus on what bothers you because someone doesn't play the way you want them to, move on.

It is wrong to assume that when you join a group that everyone is like you. Vive le difference.

AzraelKrieg · October 2016

Juhasow wrote: »

Cp is nothing skill is everything.

Pretty much. You can find a lot of high CP players but because they got there by grinding, they don't know how to play their role.

Juhasow · October 2016

Woeler wrote: »

but but but play the way you want... !!!1!!!!!!11!!

For some people it's ,,Suck the way You want"

leepalmer95 · October 2016

This is in pvp as well.

I've seen some good cp 300/400 players and then i've seen some 561 players who are actually like mid 20's pvp rank but are absolutely horrid. Like shockingly bad to the point i'd expect it on a no cp new player.

They don't heal, block, break free, ani cancel, usually just spam 1 things, they don't have impen etc...

This is the result of making the game so easy and letting people basically pug easy mode it with zerging, they pvp for months and don't get any better because they kill when they out number someone only.

Junipus · October 2016

Garrick wrote: »

I guess my question is, how did you people who know what to do learn it in the first place? I would really like to be more effective in dungeons, but I only get better by learning through mistakes. I join PUGs and I am usually not the worst but I am by no means close to the best. It seems like the more experienced people have a choice to make:

1. All join a guild of experienced people. Ignore everyone else. Wait for game to die.
2. Help people get up to speed. At least, the ones like me who would actually like to do better.

I think most players want to do better. The problem is, there is just as much - if not more - bad advice as there is good advice. I don't watch YouTube stuff because (a) I don't trust it and (b) I don't have time. I thought maybe I had to make time, but some people here state that learning like that is bad because you do not have a "feel" for the skills.

Anyway. L2P. But how? Other than by bad PUG experiences.

Practice. Every dungeon has mechanics that you get to learn and experience running them multiple times and to devise tactics to avoid them or skip them. Some groups won't take someone new because they simply want to get through the dungeons asap, others will have people who will explain the mechanics to you and help you to survive and do the best you can.

Lots of problems occur because of people who don't want to improve or don't think they need to, then complain when they're called out as lacking in skill/awareness. People who want to improve or learn the mechanics are generally seen more positively, even if they're actively below the average.

Dracane · October 2016

I'm playing a light armor tank build with lightning staff and sword and shield and I am very successfull with it and receive many compliments for my efficience

There are many crazy builds that are very effective. #DontLiveTheMeta

Asardes · October 2016

I've actually seen many players with CP400+ with major issues, both in terms of gameplay and attitude. Players that use ineffective skills and/or skill rotation, or even have no rotation whatsoever, that ignore mechanics, even when explained in detail before fight - I actually ask people if they ran the dungeon before if I see them making blatant mistakes and explain the fight in detail. But some take issue with that or don't even bother to respond on chat, and from their subsequent actions it's pretty clear they don't actually care about what I explain them. I simply leave such groups because I don't have the time to waste with morons.

I've seen plenty of CP400+ Templar "healers" spamming BoL, never slotting HoTs - ritual and combat prayer are no brainers - never throwing shards or doing repentance while running with 2 stamina DD and a stamina tank despite numerous requests to do so. I've seen high CP count DK tanks using no CCs (talons, chains, cinder storm/caltrops), using no group buffs, and obviously running out resources while taunting just the biggest mob and then perma-blocking. I've seen high CP DDs hitting like a wet noodle. And all of the above just standing in AoE and getting burned.

A concrete example: I had a healer for a VWGT pledge. Throughout the dungeon I was telling him to change his skills to more HoTs, to throw shards and repent. He didn't listen, didn't even bother to say something on the chat. He was dead for most of the Inhibitor fight because somehow he stood in the geysers, and even while he was alive he didn't use the proper skills; we were just skilled enough and had self heals to barely get us trough that. At Kena though he died again and again at the lightning wave because he didn't block. When I saw him getting hit in the face by the lightning waves the 6th or 7th time and wiping the group because he didn't even attempt to block that despite the fact I told him to specifically, I simply left. Some people simply don't develop survival instincts in this game, and on top of that they utter jerks for not properly doing the support role despite being told specifically which skills to use by the other group members. Healer should be called support in this game.

This is due to the fact that many people grinded their CP solo/duo, then grinded their chars to level 50 using the same simple skill combo, or even just the AoE button, against weak enemies that had no mechanics. And then they come to dungeons, do the easier ones because probably they can still pull enough AoE to steamroll the mobs and the bosses on easy mode. But then they go into DLC dungeons and get rekt hard. They are getting rekt even in older dungeons that had vet and hard mode added in One Tamriel because bosses have more health and some of them have one-shot attack now. And then you see a part of that brain-dead crowd come on the forum and whine that content X and Y be nerfed because their cognitive functions have atrophied to such an extent from all that grinding that they can't handle it.

I can play both as a tank and a DD on my main, as I have a full stamina build and adequate gear for both. My rotation as DD is not that complex, and yes, it includes wrecking blow for the empower. But for maximum damage and sustain should be alternated with heavy attack to activate the follow up passive and build ultimate. Dawnbreaker initial damage gets empowered, so that should be activated right after a wrecking blow. At less than 30% executioner with heavy attack is a good combo. For bow light attacks should be part of the rotation, for the hawk eye passive, and ultimate buildup. So if the DD did a few light attacks, then poison arrow and endless hail (AoE) or focused aim (single target), and then switched to melee bar that's actually a valid rotation. I use those all the time and still get decent enough DPS to finish hard mode on all dungeons, including VWGT and VICP as DD.

Draxys · October 2016

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

It would be safe to assume that those 531s got there by grinding just to be able to do endgame content so never developed a proper rotation

Proper rotation can't save some of the people I've seen.

I did a pledge one time with a tank who didn't taunt, a level 22 healer who basically just used mutagen, and another dps who did nothing but resto heavy attacks and hard casting crystal frag. I might as well have done it solo.

It's actually perplexing to me how people can play a game like this and have no idea what it means to be even somewhat effective, let alone "good".

Prof_Bawbag · October 2016

Garrick wrote: »

I guess my question is, how did you people who know what to do learn it in the first place? I would really like to be more effective in dungeons, but I only get better by learning through mistakes. I join PUGs and I am usually not the worst but I am by no means close to the best. It seems like the more experienced people have a choice to make:

1. All join a guild of experienced people. Ignore everyone else. Wait for game to die.
2. Help people get up to speed. At least, the ones like me who would actually like to do better.

I think most players want to do better. The problem is, there is just as much - if not more - bad advice as there is good advice. I don't watch YouTube stuff because (a) I don't trust it and (b) I don't have time. I thought maybe I had to make time, but some people here state that learning like that is bad because you do not have a "feel" for the skills.

Anyway. L2P. But how? Other than by bad PUG experiences.

Because some of those players can't see the forest for the trees. They forget that they themselves were once taught and were once the 'noob' fodder in the group. Those people who tend to have bad experiences with those players who like to dictate how good others should be, will more than likely become the very thing they currently despise too. It happens in every game because the more we play a game, the more likely we are to forget our own learning curve and some of the nastiness we encountered along the way.

CirithValaria · October 2016

Threads like this always remind me of one Dragonknight Bow DD (pve) who had more or less full heavy armor (Nord ofc) and blood spawn head/shoulder.
Skills&rotation were pretty much just light attack and poison arrow spam from max range while keeping spiked armor buff up. So my conclusion was and still is: that player sure hated dying.

kylewwefan · October 2016

The game seriously needs to have some metrics put in here to indicate what kind of DPS your pulling on console. In PvE there's so many people spamming wrecking blow and soul assault because of the big tool tip numbers. People not using executes. Or at the right time anyways.

We have no idea how much damage we're doing. I hear people getting all excited and proud of their 20k wrecking blow spam. I know it feels good and looks cool, but doesn't add up to much when that's all you do. I can do 3 surprise attacks in that time doing 40k+ and that's still not really good DPS either.

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Garrick wrote: »

I guess my question is, how did you people who know what to do learn it in the first place? I would really like to be more effective in dungeons, but I only get better by learning through mistakes. I join PUGs and I am usually not the worst but I am by no means close to the best. It seems like the more experienced people have a choice to make:

1. All join a guild of experienced people. Ignore everyone else. Wait for game to die.
2. Help people get up to speed. At least, the ones like me who would actually like to do better.

I think most players want to do better. The problem is, there is just as much - if not more - bad advice as there is good advice. I don't watch YouTube stuff because (a) I don't trust it and (b) I don't have time. I thought maybe I had to make time, but some people here state that learning like that is bad because you do not have a "feel" for the skills.

Anyway. L2P. But how? Other than by bad PUG experiences.

Because some of those players can't see the forest for the trees. They forget that they themselves were once taught and were once the 'noob' fodder in the group. Those people who tend to have bad experiences with those players who like to dictate how good others should be, will more than likely become the very thing they currently despise too. It happens in every game because the more we play a game, the more likely we are to forget our own learning curve and some of the nastiness we encountered along the way.

Oh man. I'm turning into one of them filthy elites. Even though I'm still pretty bad myself. Lol!

Asardes · October 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

This is in pvp as well.

I've seen some good cp 300/400 players and then i've seen some 561 players who are actually like mid 20's pvp rank but are absolutely horrid. Like shockingly bad to the point i'd expect it on a no cp new player.

They don't heal, block, break free, ani cancel, usually just spam 1 things, they don't have impen etc...

This is the result of making the game so easy and letting people basically pug easy mode it with zerging, they pvp for months and don't get any better because they kill when they out number someone only.

Or just farmed AP on buff campaigns destroying the same resource tower with opposing alliance alts then rebuilt with their main. Some have even become emperors like that

svartorn · October 2016

Most players are pretty bad in this game.

Asardes · October 2016

svartorn wrote: »

Most players are pretty bad in this game.

Depends on the sample. I run almost exclusively with randoms. Though lately I haven't queued in tool alone due to the fact that running all 3 with the same group is quicker and one of them is always a DLC dungeon. But in Deshaan zone chat I have no problem finding high CP, decent, and sometimes extremely skilled players (I had Flawless Conquerors and even Dro-M'Athra Destroyer DDs multiple times) that I can finish all dungeons on veteran mode, though not SotH ones on hard mode yet - I had to skip VRoM on Friday because nobody wanted to run it - I still need a divine Amber Plasm hat for my healer. But I agree, the ones from tool are very weak ones. There's very little chance finishing dungeons on veteran mode with such people. Probably because most people who play don't do so regularly, and getting good at the game actually But being good at this game actually requires that you play a lot, and most people probably don't have that time. They are just casual players that can't improve much. But people who have hundreds of CP are clearly not casuals, and have no excuse for wasting their time and learning almost nothing.

Florial · October 2016

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

It would be safe to assume that those 531s got there by grinding just to be able to do endgame content so never developed a proper rotation

You actually would be wrong about that. I'm a 544 CP player who is just learning the dungeons after a long hiatus of not dungeon running for a long time (like since launch). I've never been one for grinding. I've accumulated those CP points by questing and completed Caldwell's silver/gold on three characters. I'm a completionist and tried to do every quest available on one of my characters for the Tamriel Hero title. It was fun and those CP points slowly built up.

I've worked up the courage again to get into groups and try my best to heal them with my Templar. I know my own limitations though and have only completed two vet dungeons. I've tried a few others and our group has wiped again and again at some final bosses. Yes, my lack of healing experience may have contributed but I saw both inexperienced players and some vet players making mistakes as well. I have read up on some proper builds and would like to think that I have a working rotation. But I am inexperienced and do make mistakes. Sometimes seeing a fight for the first time is better than dozens of YouTube videos.

All I can suggest to experienced players is this. If you see a group struggling on the first trash pull, gracefully exit the group if you know that you will get frustrated. Some of us are learning and nothing more discouraging than to be belittled and yelled at. Or join groups with only experienced folks. I see many advertisements for groups looking for certain CP points and "know the fights."

Happy gaming. Just some perspective from someone who loves the game but is learning the ropes in dungeons.

BlackEar · October 2016

It is very optimistic to do a vet trial with a pug, imo.

Lava_Croft · October 2016

Here you see the effect of ZOS design. The game has mostly been made shamefully easy and teaches the player almost nothing, not even in the form of those wildly creative text pop-ups ZOS has so much love for. This leaves you with players that reach their maximum level without really knowing how the game works, since randomly mashing buttons works fine to complete almost all single playet content.

RazorCaltrops · October 2016

There are also too many flawless conquerors and Bloodspawn test heroes wihout a single clue, and horror stories about them are much worse.

Long story short: Never judge a book by it's cover.

Kalebron · October 2016

kylewwefan wrote: »

First off, I PUG a lot. I see many terribad players at max level. Not just to boost my own self....I did fungal grotto vet with a player who's rotation was light attack bow, caltrops...over and over again. Or the wrecking blow spam...or stand at a distance bow light attacking never use a single ability. Full heavy armor DD's , light armor staff tanks?!?

Are everyone buying max level accounts and playing how they want? How do you get there and have no clue? I can't deal with the PUG life anymore. I tried 2 Vet HelRa PUG trials over the weekend....I'll never do that again. Not even hard mode. Just Vet. Having awesome Healers and tank still aren't getting low DPS group through.

Everyone loves to hate on the "elite" players. There's too many players out there pulling less than 10k. I just don't get it. It's so much better when I'm the only bad player in a group. My weekend of elite trials and daily's would have made a hilarious episode of "the differently geared".

I have seen the question brought up about the game being too easy. I tell you no way. Normal mode almost needs to be easier. Vet dungeons...hmmm and Hard Mode....casuals and terribads are gonna struggle and likely give up. A few really good players can carry the team, but most won't make it that far. When you see it takes 5 minutes to burn the first trash mob, just leave.

I power level many of my characters, but I do not do any dungeon play unless with friends, until I have more skill points accessible and learn the moves. Personally I do not care if someone else has no clue how to play in a pug group because I can just carry them usually unless everyone is bad. Anyway, if they have no friends, maybe they are testing the build on you. Kudo' s to them for trying out a new build. LOL.

EvilCroc · October 2016

CP means nothing. I've made vWGT with 168cp Tank, 213cp DD and 439cp Healer. We wiped only once on Inhibitor, and once on Kena (somebidy tried to read book). I've gotten my first divines Kena (finally).
Next day I've tried to pass Inhibitor with 4 different PUG groups (it was pledge). No way. I had even group of 2 561's, me 534 and 490 tank. We did not pass dat atronach. Wiped 7 or 8 times, then tank rageqiuted, healer went offline and i've started from beginning with another pugs. At the end i've just made it in normal.
I still don't know what was wrong with that pugs. Some people just bad players.
(Or, maybe, the problem was in myself and the person who does't know how to play is me. Maybe)

Paraflex · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

This translates into PvP as well, not just PvE. A max CP magplar with 0 impen or shields came at me just spamming random abilities in no coherent order.

These same people play for a while get beat down and begin to voice opinions on balance, when they have no idea how to even play the game.

ESO lost a majority of its original player-base on PC, and it's pretty clear that it's hard for the new generation to "catch up" midway.

This is 100% true. The new crop of players suck really bad on PS4.

PS4_ZeColmeia · October 2016

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

Taylor_MB wrote: »

It's amazing seeing how bad some max level characters are.

I've breezed through vWGT and vICP with pug groups 200-300cp (561 myself), then I''ve been group with max level players who don't have a clue. It makes people suggesting adding a "CP Filter" to dungeon finder totally ridiculous.

I think it's a mistake to call them bad.. They might just not care as much about BiS, perfect skills and rotations as you do

Why is it everyone's goal not to offend? You queue for a DPS role, if you can't DPS, you fail and therefore they are bad. BiS and perfect skills I can agree with your point, but rotation and just using your available skills to the max is pretty much a real requirement.