Do races need skills? Or buff on the passives?
Virosh
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Hey guys,
Something that bugged me the other day while watching Enderal videos. I hopped on to my Skyrim, played couple of days. Then I logged on ESO, played a bit. Now I seek the thoughts of the community and developers, long post incoming so please bear with me:
Look at a character from the older TES games. It matters whether you are a dunmer, altmer or breton warrior when fighting against mages, for example, as in case 1 you are almost immune to fire magic and need worry only for the other types of spell casters, case 2 you can out-heal most of the initial damage (Skyrim's altmer buff to mag regen once a day), and in case 3 you laugh at them and their pathetic attempts to harm you with magic.
Now, compare this with ESO - the said dunmer has 3-4% fire resist (? unsure of exact number), altmer's 10% max magicka and 9% mag recovery are nothing on stamina based character /I have one of those, yes, just because it looks good with a two-hander, I vouch the passives are rubbish on any stam build/, and bretons mitigate only 6-7% from incoming magic damage. Not to mention that my Nord's DK cold resist is so puny, that my Skyrim nord would laugh at him and call him offensive names.
So I think the racial passives need re-work. They are just small % bonuses that you choose based on what you'll be building for, and give what, 10-13% performance difference at max?
What would be the purpose of creating Altmer stamina warrior, any class, in ESO? No real reason to, apart from roleplay/aesthetics. On the other hand, there is a reason to do that in older TES games, because of their unique powers and passives diversity. This in turn gives build diversity. Which leads to longer life for the game.
My suggestions:
1. Introduce racial skills. Copy-paste them from Skyrim if you have no ideas. Give them magicka/stamina morphs, or make them scale with your highest stat, or just check on the forums, there are plenty good ideas there. Bosmer to summon animal companions / and make that Necropotence set useful for not only Sorcs/NB's/Infernal Maw users/. Give Bretons shield that absorbs magicka and mitigates some damage. Let Altmer warriors rapidly regen magicka at the expense of stamina or health for example. Orcs need Berserk /20% weapon and spell damage for 6 secs at heavy mag/stam cost? And it's other morph can give you the same amount of mitigation to make you more defensive? yummy!/. I can go on and on, basic idea is for every race to have a magicka and stamina option.
2. Change racial passives and make them more impactful. The only ones that truly matter atm are +max stat ones and +damage/crit ones. Resists are too low, regeneration is meh, except in the case of redguards. Also, why every race must have the exact number of passives? Give uneven number of passives, or only 1-2 passives per race, but make them strong - where is my 25-35-50% cold resist on the nords?
3. Try to bring back hybrid builds. Magblade with bow, to counter any bretons against him for example.
4. Change the % bonuses to a flat number bonus. That way it would make more sense to create Stamina DK Altmer, or Magicka Sorc Redguard.
5. And please do something with those "experience gain with X" passives. Rather change them to "additional damage with X" or "additional effect wearing 5 pieces of Y".
Now, there is an issue with the current state of dueling /whoever watched the tournament match between Blobs and Shalidor would know/. People try to stack for maximum survivability and sustain, so if any changes are to be made, they should take into account damage done/healing as well.
I don't have perfect answer to that, mind you. However, playing last several days Skyrim and ESO back to back, I can say that races are lacking in my eyes. I do believe they are working as intended, and are fairly balanced, but they lack power and identity in comparison to older TES games. You never run into something that is highly Fire resistant for example and needs to be tackled with different type of magic or physical weapon. You just work to stack maximum of X, work on rotation and weaving a bit, learn to avoid the red circles, and that's it.
I feel like playing Diablo 3 all over again. And that's not a praise.
So, those were my two cents. What are your thoughts?
Something that bugged me the other day while watching Enderal videos. I hopped on to my Skyrim, played couple of days. Then I logged on ESO, played a bit. Now I seek the thoughts of the community and developers, long post incoming so please bear with me:
Look at a character from the older TES games. It matters whether you are a dunmer, altmer or breton warrior when fighting against mages, for example, as in case 1 you are almost immune to fire magic and need worry only for the other types of spell casters, case 2 you can out-heal most of the initial damage (Skyrim's altmer buff to mag regen once a day), and in case 3 you laugh at them and their pathetic attempts to harm you with magic.
Now, compare this with ESO - the said dunmer has 3-4% fire resist (? unsure of exact number), altmer's 10% max magicka and 9% mag recovery are nothing on stamina based character /I have one of those, yes, just because it looks good with a two-hander, I vouch the passives are rubbish on any stam build/, and bretons mitigate only 6-7% from incoming magic damage. Not to mention that my Nord's DK cold resist is so puny, that my Skyrim nord would laugh at him and call him offensive names.
So I think the racial passives need re-work. They are just small % bonuses that you choose based on what you'll be building for, and give what, 10-13% performance difference at max?
What would be the purpose of creating Altmer stamina warrior, any class, in ESO? No real reason to, apart from roleplay/aesthetics. On the other hand, there is a reason to do that in older TES games, because of their unique powers and passives diversity. This in turn gives build diversity. Which leads to longer life for the game.
My suggestions:
1. Introduce racial skills. Copy-paste them from Skyrim if you have no ideas. Give them magicka/stamina morphs, or make them scale with your highest stat, or just check on the forums, there are plenty good ideas there. Bosmer to summon animal companions / and make that Necropotence set useful for not only Sorcs/NB's/Infernal Maw users/. Give Bretons shield that absorbs magicka and mitigates some damage. Let Altmer warriors rapidly regen magicka at the expense of stamina or health for example. Orcs need Berserk /20% weapon and spell damage for 6 secs at heavy mag/stam cost? And it's other morph can give you the same amount of mitigation to make you more defensive? yummy!/. I can go on and on, basic idea is for every race to have a magicka and stamina option.
2. Change racial passives and make them more impactful. The only ones that truly matter atm are +max stat ones and +damage/crit ones. Resists are too low, regeneration is meh, except in the case of redguards. Also, why every race must have the exact number of passives? Give uneven number of passives, or only 1-2 passives per race, but make them strong - where is my 25-35-50% cold resist on the nords?
3. Try to bring back hybrid builds. Magblade with bow, to counter any bretons against him for example.
4. Change the % bonuses to a flat number bonus. That way it would make more sense to create Stamina DK Altmer, or Magicka Sorc Redguard.
5. And please do something with those "experience gain with X" passives. Rather change them to "additional damage with X" or "additional effect wearing 5 pieces of Y".
Now, there is an issue with the current state of dueling /whoever watched the tournament match between Blobs and Shalidor would know/. People try to stack for maximum survivability and sustain, so if any changes are to be made, they should take into account damage done/healing as well.
I don't have perfect answer to that, mind you. However, playing last several days Skyrim and ESO back to back, I can say that races are lacking in my eyes. I do believe they are working as intended, and are fairly balanced, but they lack power and identity in comparison to older TES games. You never run into something that is highly Fire resistant for example and needs to be tackled with different type of magic or physical weapon. You just work to stack maximum of X, work on rotation and weaving a bit, learn to avoid the red circles, and that's it.
I feel like playing Diablo 3 all over again. And that's not a praise.
So, those were my two cents. What are your thoughts?
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psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭This ain't skyrim, if people as you say could do any of the following:
- As a Dunmer be almost completely immune to Fire magic, they would be OP because a Magicka DK pretty much only deals fire damage, and it's the most common element in the game...
- laugh at the with their pathetic attempts to harm you with magic? Now that's ridiculous..
Remember this game has PvP so one race cannot be stronger than another, what you're asking for will never happen.0 -
Ghettokid✭✭✭✭✭
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Well then they just need to buff weaker races. I dont mind if balance between races isn't perfect, i just want race i pick to matter more.psychotic13 wrote: »
Remember this game has PvP so one race cannot be stronger than another, what you're asking for will never happen.
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psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
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Well then they just need to buff weaker races. I dont mind if balance between races isn't perfect, i just want race i pick to matter more.psychotic13 wrote: »
Remember this game has PvP so one race cannot be stronger than another, what you're asking for will never happen.
The weaker races did reciece a buff, and I believe all races are a viable choice, there isn't one that's terrible compared to the rest. I guess the only one lacking maybe Breton.
And race choice does matter, if you don't believe it's making a difference for you then you're not doing endgame content yet.0 -
Illurian✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can't compare single player games to an MMO. In single player games it's totally fine when you are OP and godlike so that you feel like a strong special snowflake, but in an MMO, you're no different from anyone else.
I think the races are fine as they are. In favor of diversity, while the racial affinities should have some sort of impact to certain builds/gameplay, it should not be a huge one. Pigeon-holing people into only playing certain races for certain builds is a horrid direction for an MMO to go in, due to the lack of diversity.Kiss the chaos.0 -
Virosh✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »
Well then they just need to buff weaker races. I dont mind if balance between races isn't perfect, i just want race i pick to matter more.psychotic13 wrote: »
Remember this game has PvP so one race cannot be stronger than another, what you're asking for will never happen.
The weaker races did reciece a buff, and I believe all races are a viable choice, there isn't one that's terrible compared to the rest. I guess the only one lacking maybe Breton.
And race choice does matter, if you don't believe it's making a difference for you then you're not doing endgame content yet.
They did. And as I said they are fairly balanced atm. This still doesn't mean I like them that way. And that is why I put down several suggestions and started this discussion.
Also, I have done enough Vet trials and Vet arenas, leveled 20+ chars on 2 different accounts, and participated in enough pvp to be bored with the game and go on the forums, haven't I? I don't think there's some other end game content that I'm missing.You can't compare single player games to an MMO. In single player games it's totally fine when you are OP and godlike so that you feel like a strong special snowflake, but in an MMO, you're no different from anyone else.
I think the races are fine as they are. In favor of diversity, while the racial affinities should have some sort of impact to certain builds/gameplay, it should not be a huge one. Pigeon-holing people into only playing certain races for certain builds is a horrid direction for an MMO to go in, due to the lack of diversity.
Meaning like Khajiits are kings in stam dps? Or Redguards kings in sustain? Or Dunmer and Altmer for Destro users?
When I was still new to the game, I started as tank. One of the first tips I got was "get yourself a good DPS race for your tank. You can tank just fine with anything, and once you get bored you can switch to dps".
The only reason we're not pigeon-holed is because we like the visuals of the different races and some people are willing to sacrifice performance.
Being OP is bad, agreed. Then just don't make resistances that high. Or, bring back hybrid build options. But, again, would you, in your right mind, make a stamina based character with any of the hardcore magic races? And why should you when Khajiits and Redguards are so obviously a better choice?!
Now, imagine instead if the Altmer race had racial skill, similar to Dark Exchange and it's morphs. You could actually consider grabbing an Altmer for stamina character. Or if their passives were flat amounts: +3000 magicka and +300 mag regen. That might benefit a stamblade - this is 1 extra cast of a magicka ability of yours.
Is it hard to balance the game? Sure. Would it be worth it? I believe so!
Also, what's so bad about games that make you feel like special snowflake, even if they are MMO
Ain't that the purpose of any game outside of ESL? 1 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭No I wouldn't make a stamina character with a magicka race, cause why would I want to gimp myself?
Every race in this game can be a viable and optimal choice, but that's dependent on what role you wish to play. PvE, PvP, Tank ect. It's actually balanced because one race isn't the best at everything.
Hybrids are also an option, people just done explore into them so much because you're told by everyone they don't work, now that's partly true, a Hyrbid in PvE won't work unless you're a tank, but can be effective in PvP with the right set up, Im currently using a hybrid myself and having a lot of fun with the build.0
