DPS Dragon Knight Questions

gamer559 · October 2016

New to the game & as you could tell with some of my previous posts, I have questions about it.
1. How viable are DK dps in pve?
2. Which is better, magika based or stam based?
3. Dual wield or a 2h weapon?
4. Finally are they actually FUN to play?

altemriel · October 2016

1. ....
2. stamina
3. 2H
4. yes

d8rmir · October 2016

1. Very viable.
2. Stamina dk is currently the top dps in the game. Magicka dk is probably the top Magicka dps, plus provides utilities (chains and inhale) which are necessary in some end game situations, plus some buffs have been promised with next year first update.
3. Stamina goes with dual wield + bow, Magicka with double destro staff.
4. Well, that's subjective. Personally, I turned my magicka dk into a tank after two playing days, but on the other hand I am currently using a lot my stamina dk.

Asardes · October 2016

With enough skill points and proper gear any stamina build can tank, and every magicka build can both tank and heal, so "turned him into a tank" is just a temporary assignment. I actually had pretty good runs with DK healers, including one on VCoS about 2 weeks ago, even if the DDs were stamina as well, but had good sustain and didn't need the shards anyway. Stamina DD builds are actually pretty similar, most of the rotation is weapon skills, which are common.

DK actually lacks a class execute and has to run 2H to access one. With 2H/2W/Bow single target sustained damage is very good, due to the fact that heavy attacks with molten armaments buff active are part of the rotation though you have to rely on either potions of another DK in the group running the other morph for the major brutality buff, if you don't run 2H to get that one from your own rally. Main bar should either be 2H or 2W, depending on context, and the back bar bow for DoT/AoE.

Destruent · October 2016

Asardes wrote: »

With enough skill points and proper gear any stamina build can tank, and every magicka build can both tank and heal, so "turned him into a tank" is just a temporary assignment. I actually had pretty good runs with DK healers, including one on VCoS about 2 weeks ago, even if the DDs were stamina as well, but had good sustain and didn't need the shards anyway. Stamina DD builds are actually pretty similar, most of the rotation is weapon skills, which are common.

DK actually lacks a class execute and has to run 2H to access one. With 2H/2W/Bow single target sustained damage is very good, due to the fact that heavy attacks with molten armaments buff active are part of the rotation though you have to rely on either potions of another DK in the group running the other morph for the major brutality buff, if you don't run 2H to get that one from your own rally. Main bar should either be 2H or 2W, depending on context, and the back bar bow for DoT/AoE.

DKs don't lack an execute. Their Stam-DPS is top and their magicka-DPS inline with other classes. I don't see a reason to complain about a missing execute in pve.

strikeback1247 · October 2016

Usually for a stam dk in PvP: 2H + bow and in PvE: DW +bow

Armitas · October 2016

gamer559 wrote: »

New to the game & as you could tell with some of my previous posts, I have questions about it.
1. How viable are DK dps in pve?
2. Which is better, magika based or stam based?
3. Dual wield or a 2h weapon?
4. Finally are they actually FUN to play?

1. I think the highest stam dk parse is 58k dps or something like that.
2. Stam is the correct answer for any "which is better" question right now.
3. I believe it's dual wield due to maelstrom weapons. Those are getting nerfs some though.
4. I don't think so. Our dps rotation is painful. Magicka is managing 5 dots timers, possibly trap beast along whip weaving. Stamina is just as bad.

Savos_Saren · October 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With enough skill points and proper gear any stamina build can tank, and every magicka build can both tank and heal, so "turned him into a tank" is just a temporary assignment. I actually had pretty good runs with DK healers, including one on VCoS about 2 weeks ago, even if the DDs were stamina as well, but had good sustain and didn't need the shards anyway. Stamina DD builds are actually pretty similar, most of the rotation is weapon skills, which are common.

DK actually lacks a class execute and has to run 2H to access one. With 2H/2W/Bow single target sustained damage is very good, due to the fact that heavy attacks with molten armaments buff active are part of the rotation though you have to rely on either potions of another DK in the group running the other morph for the major brutality buff, if you don't run 2H to get that one from your own rally. Main bar should either be 2H or 2W, depending on context, and the back bar bow for DoT/AoE.

DKs don't lack an execute. Their Stam-DPS is top and their magicka-DPS inline with other classes. I don't see a reason to complain about a missing execute in pve.

Actually, @Asardes is correct. DKs lack a class execute. They only have access to weapon executes for stamina-based weapons... and there's really not an "execute" for magic-based weapons.

Destruent · October 2016

jaburns wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

With enough skill points and proper gear any stamina build can tank, and every magicka build can both tank and heal, so "turned him into a tank" is just a temporary assignment. I actually had pretty good runs with DK healers, including one on VCoS about 2 weeks ago, even if the DDs were stamina as well, but had good sustain and didn't need the shards anyway. Stamina DD builds are actually pretty similar, most of the rotation is weapon skills, which are common.

DK actually lacks a class execute and has to run 2H to access one. With 2H/2W/Bow single target sustained damage is very good, due to the fact that heavy attacks with molten armaments buff active are part of the rotation though you have to rely on either potions of another DK in the group running the other morph for the major brutality buff, if you don't run 2H to get that one from your own rally. Main bar should either be 2H or 2W, depending on context, and the back bar bow for DoT/AoE.

DKs don't lack an execute. Their Stam-DPS is top and their magicka-DPS inline with other classes. I don't see a reason to complain about a missing execute in pve.

Actually, @Asardes is correct. DKs lack a class execute. They only have access to weapon executes for stamina-based weapons... and there's really not an "execute" for magic-based weapons.

But they [SNIP] don't need an execute in pve!

[Edited for Profanity]

Malkorga · October 2016

gamer559 wrote: »

New to the game & as you could tell with some of my previous posts, I have questions about it.
1. How viable are DK dps in pve?
2. Which is better, magika based or stam based?
3. Dual wield or a 2h weapon?
4. Finally are they actually FUN to play?

1. What does viable mean to you?
2. Although everyone leans towards stamina, i have been magicka since release.
3. As others have said, 2h for stamina; Duel destro for magicka
4. I always have fun with my DK, i have done a few trials and mostly quest and explore.

Regards,

gamer559 · October 2016

Malkorga wrote: »

gamer559 wrote: »

New to the game & as you could tell with some of my previous posts, I have questions about it.
1. How viable are DK dps in pve?
2. Which is better, magika based or stam based?
3. Dual wield or a 2h weapon?
4. Finally are they actually FUN to play?

1. What does viable mean to you?
2. Although everyone leans towards stamina, i have been magicka since release.
3. As others have said, 2h for stamina; Duel destro for magicka
4. I always have fun with my DK, i have done a few trials and mostly quest and explore.

Regards,

Viable to me means that I can carry my own weight in a group or even perform well.

Asardes · October 2016

gamer559 wrote: »

Malkorga wrote: »

gamer559 wrote: »

New to the game & as you could tell with some of my previous posts, I have questions about it.
1. How viable are DK dps in pve?
2. Which is better, magika based or stam based?
3. Dual wield or a 2h weapon?
4. Finally are they actually FUN to play?

1. What does viable mean to you?
2. Although everyone leans towards stamina, i have been magicka since release.
3. As others have said, 2h for stamina; Duel destro for magicka
4. I always have fun with my DK, i have done a few trials and mostly quest and explore.

Regards,

Viable to me means that I can carry my own weight in a group or even perform well.

Depends on the content.

For easy content like normal dungeons, vanilla game veteran dungeons, normal trials you can perform reasonably well even with low end gear and simple rotations. DLC veteran dungeons and veteran trials are hard though.

Destruent · October 2016

gamer559 wrote: »

Malkorga wrote: »

gamer559 wrote: »

New to the game & as you could tell with some of my previous posts, I have questions about it.
1. How viable are DK dps in pve?
2. Which is better, magika based or stam based?
3. Dual wield or a 2h weapon?
4. Finally are they actually FUN to play?

1. What does viable mean to you?
2. Although everyone leans towards stamina, i have been magicka since release.
3. As others have said, 2h for stamina; Duel destro for magicka
4. I always have fun with my DK, i have done a few trials and mostly quest and explore.

Regards,

Viable to me means that I can carry my own weight in a group or even perform well.

Yep, that is possible on all classes with stamina and magicka. It all depends on the player. Noone will kick you because of class X if you can play it properly.

Asmael · October 2016

Absolute best single target DPS comes down to stamina with DW / Bow.

Maximum utility, flexibility and AoE power comes down to magicka (destro / destro).

As for fun... Only you knows

UrbanMonk · October 2016

TESO-OT

STAM SORC INC. TOP DPS CLASS.

GazettE · October 2016

Which race do you guys suggest for DK?

Destruent · October 2016

GazettE wrote: »

Which race do you guys suggest for DK?

Darkelf for magicka, Khajiit (tiny bit more dps) or redguard (more sustain and great for pvp) for stamina.

GazettE · October 2016

Destruent wrote: »

GazettE wrote: »

Which race do you guys suggest for DK?

Darkelf for magicka, Khajiit (tiny bit more dps) or redguard (more sustain and great for pvp) for stamina.

do you think darkelf viable for stambuild as well?

Destruent · October 2016

GazettE wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

GazettE wrote: »

Which race do you guys suggest for DK?

Darkelf for magicka, Khajiit (tiny bit more dps) or redguard (more sustain and great for pvp) for stamina.

do you think darkelf viable for stambuild as well?

You can do it, but it won't be the best. You can choose every race for all builds and play the game, it only matters if you want to win every duel, be the best in pvp or do highscores in pve.
Darkelf will give you 3% more stam and some extra damage for your banner, but doesn't help you otherwise. Khajiit and redguard would be a lot better. But as i said, if you want to play darkelf...do it.

RazielSR · October 2016

Hey for stam dps what do you use for the bosses in dungeons? Dots and rapid strikes and some poison injection when boss below 50%?

Does rapid procs kragh I guess?

Asmael · October 2016

RazielSR wrote: »

Hey for stam dps what do you use for the bosses in dungeons? Dots and rapid strikes and some poison injection when boss below 50%?

Does rapid procs kragh I guess?

Supposing you don't have Maelstrom weapons, it's pretty much "drop a bunch of dots, spam flurry", yup.

My "budget" (no crafted pots) setup is as follows:

DW
Venomous Claw / <flex DoT> / Expert Hunter / Rapid Strikes / Rearming Trap // Flawless Dawnbreaker

Bow
Igneous weapons / Echoing Vigor / Expert Hunter / Poison Injection / Endless Hail // Standard of might

The flexible DoT is either Noxious breath or Rending Slashes depending on how many adds I'm facing. Nothing complicated, keep Major brutality up with igneous weapons, then go thru the following rotation (supposing no maelstrom weapons):

Endless Hail > Poison Injection (swap) > Venomous Claw > Noxious OR Rending > Rearming trap > Rapid Strikes x5

You do only 4 rapid Strikes if you used Standard or Igneous weapons during a rotation, and only 3 if you used both.

Rotation with Maelstrom weapons is pretty much the same, just Flurry used at different moments, and being limited to 1 utility/ultimate/other ability per rotation to minimize DPS loss.

And yup, Kra'gh procs from any damage done.

RazielSR · October 2016

MANY THANKS mate. is more or less what I expected.

Asardes · October 2016

Any advantage in using Echoing Vigor vs. Resolving Vigor in PvE content? I suppose that noxious breath is for solo play (VMA) because in group content the tank will usually apply that debuff and the DoT part is not very impressive DPS - I use piecer armor on bosses and bigger mobs and noxious breath for trash packs (it also slows them a bit).

Asmael · October 2016

Asardes wrote: »

Any advantage in using Echoing Vigor vs. Resolving Vigor in PvE content? I suppose that noxious breath is for solo play (VMA) because in group content the tank will usually apply that debuff and the DoT part is not very impressive DPS - I use piecer armor on bosses and bigger mobs and noxious breath for trash packs (it also slows them a bit).

I've been using Resolving Vigor for quite a bit, but for those moments when I wanted to heal someone (healer down, tank getting burnt quite a bit, hard to reposition...) I find Echoing Vigor to be much more flexible than Resolving. The moment Echoing affects an extra target that Resolving couldn't have due to range limit, Echoing is the clear winner.

For Noxious breath, it's definitely a very potent tool for vMA, and for group play, I limit its use to fights where I can reliably hit at least 3 mobs. Since the tanks I see usually don't have Noxious breath, I run it to make sure to debuff as many mobs as possible.

But yup, I would consider slotting Claw instead if the tank was using Noxious Breath.

Stannum · October 2016

gamer559 wrote: »

New to the game & as you could tell with some of my previous posts, I have questions about it.
1. How viable are DK dps in pve?
2. Which is better, magika based or stam based?
3. Dual wield or a 2h weapon?
4. Finally are they actually FUN to play?

1. They're good DPS
2. Stam, but dunmer's are also great as maguka DK DPS.
3. DW looks somewhat better for DPS (mostly for CP, as DK should focus on DoTs and flurry, blood craze and cloak are DoTs so you recieve CP-buffs from 2 constellations) and nado is still great AoE. The only problem - you have no powerfull execute (but all DW skills are somewhat executive via passive) and have no good charge skill (class skill is magika and usually you'll keep slot for another skill). So DW\DW good build and you'll also need bow for content that is easier to do with ranged (eg i usually do vWGT content with DW\DW until inhibitor and DW/bow after). There's no really need in 2H unlike any other stamina classes.
4. They are.

MaxwellC · October 2016

@gamer559
1. How viable are DK dps in pve? They're pretty awesome in PvE content as we have a lot of DoTs to utilize in-between rotations (if you have maelstrom weapons).
2. Which is better, magika based or stam based? Stamina is better in my opinion as Magicka can't really compete as it was smacked into the ground a long time ago then given a cloak n dagger treatment before noticing it still is bad.
3. Dual wield or a 2h weapon? 2H is good but some use 2H + DW or 2h+ bow; I use the later (2H+bow), unless it's PvE then I use DW + bow
4. Finally are they actually FUN to play? I guess I mean it gets boring sometimes mainly because you know some skills like the back of your hand. PvE wise i'd say I'm not as bored but PvP wise I'm terribly bored since all our DoT skills suck.

Asardes · October 2016

Asmael wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Any advantage in using Echoing Vigor vs. Resolving Vigor in PvE content? I suppose that noxious breath is for solo play (VMA) because in group content the tank will usually apply that debuff and the DoT part is not very impressive DPS - I use piecer armor on bosses and bigger mobs and noxious breath for trash packs (it also slows them a bit).

I've been using Resolving Vigor for quite a bit, but for those moments when I wanted to heal someone (healer down, tank getting burnt quite a bit, hard to reposition...) I find Echoing Vigor to be much more flexible than Resolving. The moment Echoing affects an extra target that Resolving couldn't have due to range limit, Echoing is the clear winner.

For Noxious breath, it's definitely a very potent tool for vMA, and for group play, I limit its use to fights where I can reliably hit at least 3 mobs. Since the tanks I see usually don't have Noxious breath, I run it to make sure to debuff as many mobs as possible.

But yup, I would consider slotting Claw instead if the tank was using Noxious Breath.

That's a thorough explanation indeed, but you said earlier that you slot venomous claw on your DW bar and noxious breath was flexible DoT. So you're already slotting it. I'm inquiring because I want to introduce more flexibility in my stamina DK build. It's full stamina build and I mostly tank, but I can swap my gear and skills and still do passable damage. I have many skill points, and will get more DLC soon, so I will have to sink them somewhere. I will also free up my research points in a couple of months. DW seems to be the right choice for investing for even more DPS. Most DK stamina DD builds I've seen were using
DW: Venom Claw | Rending Slashes | Rapid Strikes | Steel Tornado | Molten Armaments |
Bow: Poison Injection | Endless Hail | Razor Caltrops | utility 1 | utility 2 |
Doing heavy attacks with the DW abilities, and reapplying the DoTs. My question is that single target beats the 2H rotation with wrecking blow, executioner with heavy attack in terms of sustained DPS.

RazielSR · October 2016

I have questions regarding single target too. The build is realy cool but I see low the single damage.

I mean,dots and spamming rapid strikes gives me really low dps.

Maybe is me but I get more damage with the stamplar spamming jabs with pow of the light and rearming trap.

With the stamdk redguard I wear hundings and 2 kragh. Avout 4500 weap damage buffed(5k sometimes). 39k stam.

I make really low dps with rapid...about 13-14k. With some bosses 27-30 but not sustained.

Isn that really the stamdk rotation for bosses? poisom injection,endless,reaming trap,venom claw, rending and spam rapid?

RazielSR · October 2016

Well now is working better for me. I guess I was not used to it.

ZoM_Head · October 2016

Magicka or Stamina the DK is designed to be a DOT build for PvE.

Stamina rotation for ALL classes share the same skills such as rapid strikes, rendering slashes, endless hail, poison injection, rearming trap and flawless dawnbreaker. A few skills here and there make other stamina classes differ but they all share that rotation.

Magicka brings more to the group for PvE than Stamina. Chains, deep breath, engulfing flames and a harder hitting standard of might (does flame damage on both builds) favors magicka.

Stamina will out DPS magicka, this has been the case since Thieves Guild DLC.

No execute was never an issue, magicka DKs still reach higher numbers compared to all other magicka classes IF you get good group support (SPC, Horn rotation, combat prayer etc) and a tight rotation (rotation for a magicka/stamina DK is really tight).

PvP is a different story, Stamina DK get more healing, damage and mobility than magicka DK, for now at least. But if you play a magicka DK for PvP you need to know you pretty much have to remorph molten whip to flame lash, so changing from PvE to PvP can be prices (1.8K gold for morph respec and 3K for CP repsec).

Been a magicka DK since closed beta, still am, suffering in PvP yes but it is due to Zenimax not taking care of the mDK for almost 1.5 years now, we shall see next update.

Asardes · October 2016

Regarding Magicka DK, can a build that relies on heavy attacks for burst between DoTs be effective, when using the molten armaments buff (+40%) and the Queen's Elegance set (+10%)?