Autolycus wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Well...I'll be honest. I've commented in this thread without watching the video. My bad. And I must apologize. Apologize for not blowing my top on what a really dumb video it was!

Omg! Are you serious? You claim two Templars in your post, but you are actually in a group of at least four for the majority of the time. Barely any enemy are focusing on you as they are trying to kill the Npcs and flip the flags. And there are oils dropping down on them, too. But eventually when flags are nearly flipped and they've secured everything, you get focused and drop.

There's really nothing to see here that any group of skilled players couldn't do. So that is a bit of a compliment. But my goodness! The number of times you were able to get off Darkflare without getting interrupted says less about you and more about the players you were fighting against. And in the end, you didn't save the keep or really accomplish anything except being tanks for a while. Sorry. Troll vid is troll vid. You got me.

Neither of us are tanks tho', I'm more offence (3000+ spell power) and my friend is in light armour. Neither of us are wearing anything cheese, it's two average Templars in purple gear absorbing a **** ton on damage. If we were tanks, Malutard/Reactive, we wouldn't have died.

If I'd posted a video of us in Malutard/Reactive then people would have said it's the sets, they only magnify how broken the healing is on Templar.

Templar, only viable healer for PvE, only viable magicka class for PvP (unless you're really good). The reason stamina is so far ahead is because Magicka Templar is right there up there with them. If ZOS try to buff mag Sorc, NB and DK it's gonna cause a whole world of imbalances.

I've made a thread to highlight Templar's imbalances, the fact they more or less have it all but there are other threads and it's the general opinion that Stamina is leaps and bounds ahead. This sounds easier:

So bring physical damage down and nerf Templar healing, reduce range of RD and nerf proc sets. Oh god that sounds like perfect balance to me. It would just be perfect.

If they nerfed physical damage and left Templar, then Templar would just be god mode.

Why do you keep saying there are only 2 of you when there are 5 people lit in your group indicating proximity?

I get it, you're just like everyone else who thinks templars are easymode. But you don't have to be disingenuous and say it's 2 vs 20 when it isn't. The fact that you feel the need to make such exaggerations just goes to show how shaky you claims are. you can't just let the facts speak for themselves.

What you and every other templar-hating formite fail too see beyond your hatred of RD and BoL is that templars are far and away the best magicka class is because of how ZoS has changed the game, more than anything they have done to templars. If ZoS made available the templar class from just before the IC patch, I would take that in a second and not think twice about it. My breath of life healed another person and goes through LoS, my purify insta-cleansed all projectiles, my heals were modified by an extra 5%, my jabs stunned, my charge was much faster, my RD ticked 7 times and did more damage, I did not have a cooldown on burning light, eclipse was actually a functional spell, RD did more damage and could not be LoSed. The class was WAY better, the only thing I'b be losing is some extra range on javelin (I dont even slot that spell) and a 12% damage on dark flare (which I dont use for damage). Templars were actually stronger back then, but nobody thought they were OP. ZoS didn;t buff them, ZoS changed other parts of the game to make them the only magicka choice worth playing.

Heavy armor and sword and shield are way way way better than light armor and staffs and that means Templars are going to benefit most. It would also mean DK if that class was any good. The tools that work best for mag NBs and mag Sorcs are not competitive. Neither class has a native heal which limits the options available for them to build around. Healing Ward is actually more efficient than breath of life, but trying to survive the stam burst onslaught with a resto staff that offers nothing else and actually detracts from your stats isn't going to work because the power creep has gotten out of control. How is a mag NB going to kill anything without a proxy bomb-VD explosion? Funnel health spam is easily outhealled by every spec out there and these light armor NBs want to get into melee range. The spec would be much stronger in an meta that was more about attrition than burst.

Your solution won't fix a thing. You're going to nerf templar healing but do nothing with Rally and Vigor? Are you joking? You do realize breath of life had been nerfed multiple times now and you templar-haters still are not satified. Why don't you pay attention to how efficient and strong those stamina based HoTs are. Nerfing physical damage will in now way lessen their stam surviability. In fact it, will make the stam plague even harder to kill, especially since you're also nerfing the only magica based attack they fear. mDK will still suck. NBs and Sorcs still will struggle because heavy armor and sword and shield are going to be way better than staffs - more so than they are now because of the super lame ultimates.

Templar-haters love to bash Wrobel and dub people who point out the overly simplistic nature of their nerf cries as "biased formplars," but things are not so simple as just "nerf templar!" and at least Wrobel actually considers more than one perspective.

Would just like to point out that, while much of this is true and insightful, it's all incredibly biased too. Hypocrisy all around; so much for letting facts speak for themselves. Classism goes both ways, and you're here calling for nerfs to other classes (or even outright stating they are no good) and justifying it with people who say similar things about your class. News flash: Classism is unproductive and counter-intuitive.

Take note that my criticisms here do not stem from your comments pertaining specifically to skills and not classes. I'm not criticizing this because it's relevant; comparing heals to heals, for example. Comments about disparities in armor choices are also relevant, at least until you start using class bias to draw the comparison for you.

There are a lot of people on this thread who know exactly what they're looking at in that video. Most of the experienced players (names which I know fairly well by this point) are in agreement that what's present in this video is not exactly what is claimed in the OP; most of us recognize it as player skill imbalance, not class imbalance. We recognize the necessity for heavy armor (or a combination) to take advantage of passives that many feel are imbalanced for various reasons. It's easy to look at a video and determine whether or not someone is performing in an active damage role, or a quazi-tank role, or whatever.

What I don't get is why this merits more pointless classism? My opinion of classism is that it is reserved for the untrained and unexperienced. For almost three years now (some of us at least, many others substantially less) we've seen the changes to each class, along with the changes to weapon/armor skills, etc. and have seen the rise and fall of every class at one point or another. Is this not the textbook definition of an MMO, where rebalancing is an ongoing challenge, rather than a one-time-and-done fix?

White wabbit wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

I think it's time we fired up #NoNerfNovember again

Sorry but I'm going to town on this until stamina and magplar aren't so OP compared to the rest. They just need nerfing, that is all.[/quote

So you admit that stamina is Op yet are here trying to get the one magicka class that can compete with Stamima when they use certian builds , instead of the 4 stamina that you imply are also op , well can't see the logic in that unless your logic is to ruin a class for others

Templar is the only reason why stamina hasn't been nerfed yet.

Firerock2 wrote: »

What's that UI addon that pops up in the middle of your screen and tells you about reverberating bash and dawnbreaker, etc

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

I'm not sure I see an issue in this video. What I see is 2 experienced PVPers fighting against 4-6 very inexperienced players for most of the fight. When they were fighting 10-20 at the end they died very quickly. If their opponents were CCing both of them every 7 seconds and actually concentrating their DPS on one of them at a time I think the fight would have not lasted long.

I'm not a very active PVP player. I might have gained 600k AP over the last few years. But even I've managed to win some 1v2 and 1v3 fights against inexperienced players. I'd imagine if I was actually good at PVP I could manage more like what I've seen people do in Cyrodiil.

We died to Radiant Destruction.

Alucardo wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

So instead of a instant skill you want to add what is effectly a channel skill don't Templars have enough of them
Unfortually the Pve players will be the ones that end up suffering due to a few PvP players whining

1. A HoT is not a channel. A channel does not allow you to do anything else while it's active.
2. I mentioned it should affect battle spirit TWICE so it doesn't hurt PVE healers. Please read or don't bother commenting.

Alucardo wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

So instead of a instant skill you want to add what is effectly a channel skill don't Templars have enough of them
Unfortually the Pve players will be the ones that end up suffering due to a few PvP players whining

1. A HoT is not a channel. A channel does not allow you to do anything else while it's active.
2. I mentioned it should affect battle spirit TWICE so it doesn't hurt PVE healers. Please read or don't bother commenting.

1. Still not a instant skill though so you want to completely change a class skill
2. 2. Did read you post so I know what you posted so I WILL comment , but we all know that Zos can't seem to seperate the two
3. No one is making you read my posts as you obviously feel that I have nothing to contribute

A HoT is still an instant skill, unless it has a cast time. The BoL HoT should still be powerful, even more so than Vigor, so it's not like you'd be gimped as a Templar. With major mending at the ready and a strong HoT, you'll be healing in no time. The Templar HoT should tick every 0.5 seconds also.
I read everyone's posts, even if I disagree with what they might have to say. I believe the best way to find common ground and balance is by debating, but you have to actually understand where the opposing person is at least coming from, which you don't seem to grasp. Hopefully you will, though.

kuro-dono wrote: »

nothing sucks more than watching my donkeys hitting one healer block casting breath of life next 1 min before he dies.

same as an shield stackeckers, or tanks. who can do it until end of the world. none should be able to handle multiple beaters without being torn apart when all they do is passively focus stay alive.

lol, for that very purpose i made my lord negator with ulti reduction and getting it fast up, so i can smart snare + negate. Nobody last that very long

but thats hard counter. There should be natural ways to avoid these perma heal bots or perma shield stackers or perma blockers