Macros - What's the Bottom Line?

Berenhir · October 2016

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Automated via third-party and macros are not the same thing. The TOS says no automation. Macros are still a keystroke, which mean you are at the keys and doing the work. It's not the same thing. I see nothing in the TOS about macros at all. Automation is botting. There is a big difference. I've read the TOS before coming here, in section 2 D about Game Mods, there is no mention of macros, nor any mention to macros on the entire TOS. Hence this thread.

As for your response, @raasdal, it's both. In order to fire off the 5 attacks before the animation hits, he's using the macro to do it. I'm well aware of the animation cancelling of light attack, ability, and bash. This isn't directly like that. It's one light attack and 4 abilities.

Macros cannot ignore global cooldown.
Macros cannot ignore global cooldown.
Macros cannot ignore global cooldown.
Macros cannot ignore global cooldown.
Macros cannot ignore global cooldown.
Macros cannot ignore global cooldown.
Macros cannot ignore global cooldown.
Macros cannot ignore global cooldown.

What you experience is probably just a normal lag or the so called macroslicing, which has nothing to do with macros but with errors in ESO's source code design.

It's a light attack, 2 poison injections that are animation cancelled, a heavy attack and snipe/lethal, it's done within a second. They can reproduce it pretty often, so whatever that is.

It usually is lag. Sometimes you get no response from the server for up to 3 seconds, meaning that all the enemy does happens for you within a sec.
Another possibility is the macroslicing bug that happens every day in cyrodiil, mainly with gap closers involved but have seen it without as well.

It's like an attack traffic jam that dissolves within a second, firing up to 20 attacks at once. You often won't see the enemy on screen before you drop dead and he teabags you. For him it often just looks as if you were super slow with your reactions or not fighting back at all.

RajinPVP · October 2016

Someone might really be macroing ... but im pretty sure it will not work in pvp (or maybe it will) but on PC NA in TF prime time hours.. its too laggy and macroing in that situations is not a good idea... also macroing will not bypass any global cooldows so i dont see the point of macroing. Now.. there is this thing called "macro slice" but its not really a macro its a stupid bug in the game where you get stuck in a certain animation and you can still do any attack/abilities but wont see animations... try watching fengrush vids for that.

ThePonzzz · October 2016

Haderus just isn't as laggy as TF or AS. I don't miss the old AS lag at all.

This thread brought to light some jarring things about the policy and TOS though. My reasoning for arguing the terminology is because I do this for a living, and I review a lot of policies and terms of services. It's not uncommon that this sort of thing happens. But when specifics aren't mentioned it's because it's typically a grey area. In games, it's because each scenario will be weighed differently and they want to leave discretion to the GameMasters.

I'll perform my due diligence and just report it when I see it. I'll leave it to ZOS to uphold and enforce their policies.

Zeuq · October 2016

The only thing macroes are slightly useful at all for in this game is for ganking and apart from that they are useless. If you get killed in PvP it is most likely because they are better than you.

Waffennacht · October 2016

Simple, tha part that's most important:

Is it ZoS approved? If not, then it's no good.

Essentially anything, if not approved, is a no go. That could even be a color change (or something equally simple.)

Second Macros will not out perform a perfect human. What I mean is, a human can hit the ICD - meaning a Macro would not be faster (though more consistent)

Lag, health desync, AC, perfect rotation etc all will or can appear as one single attack/moment

W0lf_z13 · October 2016

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/comment/2103001#Comment_2103001
Look at comment #4

FearlessOne_2014 · October 2016

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

It has been spelled out by ZOS here on the forums that Macro's, software that automates the pressing of a sequence of keys, is against the TOS and not allowed. If you want to do a search on the forums, I'm sure you will find the official ZOS response somewhere.

Although I've been tempted on using Macro's in the past because so many others are using them, I've resisted the temptation so far. Mainly because if I kill a fellow player in PVP, or monster in PVE, it's because I'm getting gud, not because I know how to program a stupid macro.

I have searched the forums. I've never seen a ZOS name say anything. I've seen a lot of players say it though. It would be nice if a ZOS mod or dev could lock it down though.

And that's the thing, when I first started my journey in PvP, it was all "get gud" or "l2play" when you get ganked. And so I did. And 2 years later, I am good, and I solo just about all the time now. But the macro'ing on Haderus has been getting a lot more noticeable.

Could anyone here who knows a thread where ZOS chimed in and spelled it out be willing to paste it here? Spending the last 5 minutes searching, I've found no official stance. And prior to me making this thread, I found nothing on the forums or TOS.

I'm curious how ESO detects macro usage though, since you can mash keys to get the same results in some cases (like light, ability, bash). Easier to macro, but definitely able to do that in one fluent keystroke motion.

ZOS says it right in their Terms Of Service (TOS) that everyone accepts to play the game.

You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities, or influence or advantage Your use of the Services. Third party tools, the use of ‘bots’, “speed hacks”, “deep-link”, “page-scrape”, “robot”, “spider”, algorithm or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums).

Again, they chose not to use the term macros in their list of examples. None of their examples are macros.

I'm not being difficult here, I'm looking for a clear and concise answer from ZOS.

They don't have to list every example. A Macro is software or hardware that influences your abilities. Its standard TOS verbiage.

So a Razer Naga or any MMO mouse user can just be banned because of the verbiage here. (You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities) I think he's just looking for a clear answer to unmuddy the waters.

CapuchinSeven · October 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You can freely use macros, there is no reliable way for ZOS to confirm that you are macros.

You can most certainly detect macro use.
ZOS just doesn't.

Lava_Croft · October 2016

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

You can freely use macros, there is no reliable way for ZOS to confirm that you are macros.

You can most certainly detect macro use.
ZOS just doesn't.

Isn't that what I said?

Ampnode · October 2016

Why're we complaining about macro usage when macros themselves do nothing more than what a normal player can do? You cannot simply setup a macro and have it ignore ESO's built-in global cooldown for skills.

They're gankers, it's what they do. There's nothing fancy about it. But if you want to "join" them by setting up pointless macros, and be disappointed with your results afterwards, go ahead.

Mauz · October 2016

ThePonzzz wrote: »

It's a light attack, 2 poison injections that are animation cancelled, a heavy attack and snipe/lethal, it's done within a second. They can reproduce it pretty often, so whatever that is.

Even an average player should be able to do this without macro.

Click lethal arrow -> cancel with heavy attack -> when lethal arrow goes of click poison injection and release heavy attack. All three attacks arrive at the same time. One sec later the first poison injection dot appears which can be pretty high if your are in execution range and will kill you. On your death screen you see 1x lethal arrow, 1x heavy attack, 2x poison injection. Add a light attack after poison injection if you like...

Needs about 1 sec in total.

Macros in lagESO are pretty unreliable btw. Doing it manually is much better in any situation I can imagine.

incite · October 2016

When I read some of these posts here, its like some of "them" are amongst us :-)

out51d3r · October 2016

There should probably be a sticky post collecting up all of these rules somewhere. We shouldn't have to be combing through years worth of random forum posts to find official rulings. Nor should we have to trust the word of other players that the devs said something.

ThePonzzz · October 2016

out51d3r wrote: »

There should probably be a sticky post collecting up all of these rules somewhere. We shouldn't have to be combing through years worth of random forum posts to find official rulings. Nor should we have to trust the word of other players that the devs said something.

Yes. Especially when necro'ing an old thread is against forum rules (and can get you in trouble).

I looked through a number of threads before posting here. And then after people told me it's been said, I looked again. It would be nice if the search function allowed an argument where you can check for ZOS posts within a thread. It's a bit daunting to go through a thread to try to find something, especially if you read that thread and you're placed at the most recent posts from the last time you were in there.

LuminaLilly · October 2016

Simply put, macro slicing is an exploit and needs to be fixed. I'll get a lot of stam salt for this.

kadar · October 2016

ThePonzzz wrote: »

Haderus just isn't as laggy as TF or AS. I don't miss the old AS lag at all.

I'll perform my due diligence and just report it when I see it. I'll leave it to ZOS to uphold and enforce their policies.

That's great that you're reporting cheating. But you can't report someone for using a macro unless they tell you they are using one.. I mean, you cannot know if someone is using a macro. It's not possible. Anything ppl do with a macro, players who have been around awhile also do without one. ZOS knows this as well.

As for the experiences you described before with an archer on Haddy PC NA, like someone else pointed out, I'll confirm that's not the work of a macro.

AlphaNicole wrote: »

Simply put, macro slicing is an exploit and needs to be fixed. I'll get a lot of stam salt for this.

If by stam salt you mean rational statements to combat paranoia then yes...
It's not possible to intentionally "macroslice."

spectre303 · October 2016

A lot of you guys worried about macros should just try making/playing with a macro. This game doesn't play well with them because of the animation and cast time. Basically if you try to macro, your controls get laggy and you're worse off then before. That said, you can easily pull of combos WITHOUT macros that would be just as quick as anything you could program. just because someone who bothered to l2p lands a quick flurry of skills on you doesn't mean macro, it usually just means they know how to string their attacks together.

Example: NB's can preload their heavy attacks in stealth, cast ambush as the hvy attack finishes and then concealed weapon when they reach the target all in what seems like an instant to the target and it just takes 3 well time button presses. and thats just the opener... most classes have similar combos that can be strung together easily, w/o macros, and that lead to big instant burst damage on the target. Many new players are stunned by the quickness of the damage and start blaming macros because they don't understand what just happened to them.

Dont believe me? Go try macroing a light attack + skill and see how long it takes you to lag your controls out and start cursing. Most macros are worthless for pvp combat and i've very rarely encountered them. This is why theres not a big anti-macro effort from Zeni... its not really a big problem. The only viable macros i know of would be like quickslot buttons or one button gear swaps for example. im sure there some exceptions but generally macros are just going to make you worse in this game.

Xael · October 2016

ThePonzzz wrote: »

After an evening of getting ganked pretty hard in Cyrodiil (Haderus), I was curious if there is an official stance on using macros. I know they are frowned upon by the community at large, but are they against the rules in any way? Getting killed before any animations happens gets pretty old pretty quickly. But since I use a G910 Orion Spark and a G502 Proteus Core...can't beat 'em, join 'em! I'm sure each alliances has someone on every campaign doing this stuff, but there is an AD archer on Haderus that just abuses the hell out of it.

You are not being killed by macros.
This is not world of warcraft.
You clearly do not understand the combo system and/or animation cancelling.

Mojmir · October 2016

cop didn't see it,you didn't do it sounds about right.