Daggers or Swords?

Shad0wfire99 · September 2016

This one is for the "mathletes" out there. I've been running 2 precise daggers on my Khajiit Stam-Sorc, but recently decided to give 2 sharpened swords a shot. Both pairs are Nightmother's, as I've had zero luck in Maelstrom and Dragonstar. However, when I switched to the swords, my crit percentage dropped from 72 with the daggers to 59 with the swords. My question is, will the sharpened swords give me enough dps to make up for the loss of crit from the daggers?

Unsent.Soul · September 2016

Typically magicka users use 2x swords.

Beardimus · September 2016

Traits wise Precise gives you Crit, Sharpened gives you penetration. Current meta is that sharpened is beating precise for actual damage.

You do need your crit chance to a certain tipping point (most say 55-60). but beyond that is questionable.

If you have the last dual wield passive daggers boost wep Crit, swords boost damage (not spell / wep but 'damage done' hence sorcs like them)

So potentially you lost the % from precise and the % from.the dual dagger passive, but gained Sharpened and damage done.

Bottom line is, attack some stuff. Check the figures. I find (Mag Sorc) I'm hitting way harder with sharp. And as long as you are getting enough Crits, Sharp is boosting their damage too.

Another option if you are missing the crits is get Sharpened Daggers or Precise Swords - so meet in the middle. BUT I would run sharp swords if I we're you (but I dont know stam builds)

Lastly. magika based but gives you an ideal, the work @ Asayre did on CP spread across DOT, Crit, Penetration etc.

Shad0wfire99 · September 2016

Yeah, I'm aware of the dual wield passives, as well as the current meta, but when I switched, I honestly didn't expect THAT steep a drop off in crit chance.

CasNation · September 2016

Use either 2 sharpened daggers or a shape Ned axe and dagger. The pros and cons of the different DW combos has already been extensively mathematically broken down in one of Asayre's threads. You can find in depth info there.

Bobby_V_Rockit · September 2016

I just switched to a precise sword and precise dagger from a precise and sharpened sword tonight. Will need to oay attention now I suppose, at 75% crit chance which seems like a happy number to sit on... everyone tells you something different, its irritating but does highlight the hope for a play how you want style

Smasherx74 · September 2016

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Yeah, I'm aware of the dual wield passives, as well as the current meta, but when I switched, I honestly didn't expect THAT steep a drop off in crit chance.

the meta is

mag dual wield swords with percise

stam dual wield daggers with penetration

BiS for dual wield abilities would be vma daggers.

Waffennacht · September 2016

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Yeah, I'm aware of the dual wield passives, as well as the current meta, but when I switched, I honestly didn't expect THAT steep a drop off in crit chance.

the meta is

mag dual wield swords with percise

stam dual wield daggers with penetration

BiS for dual wield abilities would be vma daggers.

Mag DW using precise? Wouldn't the 8% damage from sharpened do more damage than the 7% crit chance or roughly 3.5% damage from precise?

You would need to have like 110% crit damage for precise (or a lot of penetration else where) to deal more damage.

bantad87 · September 2016

Precise axes! Crit bleed healing for life.

Waffennacht · September 2016

bantad87 wrote: »

Precise axes! Crit bleed healing for life.

Sshhhh.... esp on stam sorcs... using skoria... after the buff too...

Oh ok...

(You should use at least one axe...)

DRXHarbinger · September 2016

Dual sharpened maces.

Smasherx74 · September 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Yeah, I'm aware of the dual wield passives, as well as the current meta, but when I switched, I honestly didn't expect THAT steep a drop off in crit chance.

the meta is

mag dual wield swords with percise

stam dual wield daggers with penetration

BiS for dual wield abilities would be vma daggers.

Mag DW using precise? Wouldn't the 8% damage from sharpened do more damage than the 7% crit chance or roughly 3.5% damage from precise?

You would need to have like 110% crit damage for precise (or a lot of penetration else where) to deal more damage.

Telling you what the meta is bro.

Magicka users typically need extra critical and the dual swords gives them the damage.

On the flip side Stam users benefit from the crit on daggers and the penetration helps make up for that smal drop in weapon damage by a lot.

Smasherx74 · September 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Yeah, I'm aware of the dual wield passives, as well as the current meta, but when I switched, I honestly didn't expect THAT steep a drop off in crit chance.

the meta is

mag dual wield swords with percise

stam dual wield daggers with penetration

BiS for dual wield abilities would be vma daggers.

Mag DW using precise? Wouldn't the 8% damage from sharpened do more damage than the 7% crit chance or roughly 3.5% damage from precise?

You would need to have like 110% crit damage for precise (or a lot of penetration else where) to deal more damage.

Also mag users already get a lot of penetration, I'm specifically referring to healers when I say mag dual wield swords with precise but it also applies to some tank hybrids and dps builds.

Waffennacht · September 2016

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Yeah, I'm aware of the dual wield passives, as well as the current meta, but when I switched, I honestly didn't expect THAT steep a drop off in crit chance.

the meta is

mag dual wield swords with percise

stam dual wield daggers with penetration

BiS for dual wield abilities would be vma daggers.

Mag DW using precise? Wouldn't the 8% damage from sharpened do more damage than the 7% crit chance or roughly 3.5% damage from precise?

You would need to have like 110% crit damage for precise (or a lot of penetration else where) to deal more damage.

Also mag users already get a lot of penetration, I'm specifically referring to healers when I say mag dual wield swords with precise but it also applies to some tank hybrids and dps builds.

Ok that makes a lot more sense. I can also see using swords when having 10k penetration from somewhere else (say the new sets plus a debuff)

In the new meta where sets provide now a lot more flexibility I can see a lot more viable weapon choices (though mauls seem to have less of a use in 1T)

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · October 2016

Relevant @Asayre threads-

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/262295/nirnhoned-precise-and-sharpened/p1

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/232480/optimal-weapon-and-trait-combination-for-2h-and-dw#latest

Sharpened for dps all the time. for stam, it depends but mostly dagger and ax for vMA weapons.

KingYogi415 · October 2016

Bis is sharpened Axe and precise dagger

Bobby_V_Rockit · October 2016

Wasnt BiS two precise daggers a week ago? Axeswere said to be bottom of pile? I cant keep up with the meta! Everytime I make anything legendary while trying to gear up for trials the meta changes its dang mind!

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · October 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Bis is sharpened Axe and precise dagger

Evidence? Everything I have read the only time that beats out a sharpened dagger is with full raid buffs like 70% of the time.

Bobby_V_Rockit · January 2017

One precise dagger and one sharpened sword...

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · January 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

One precise dagger and one sharpened sword...

No, both sharpened. Sharpened all the time. Unless you are in a trial with all possible debuffs up and with a warhorn uptime of like 70+%. There is no contest between sharpened and precise otherwise.

Bobby_V_Rockit · January 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

One precise dagger and one sharpened sword...

No, both sharpened. Sharpened all the time. Unless you are in a trial with all possible debuffs up and with a warhorn uptime of like 70+%. There is no contest between sharpened and precise otherwise.

Wouldnt two sharpened daggers be pretty much the same as one precise dagger and one sharp sword?

Stannum · January 2017

traits = sharpened in all cases (with current putch version)

magika DPS = 2 swords
stam DPS for crit based build (lot of buffs CP/skills/mundus on crit damage increase) = 2 daggers
non crit based build or PvP = 2 maces
DoT build (lots of CP in taumaturg usually stam DK) = 2 axes or axe + dagger (if base crit is too low) or axe + mace (in the case of lack of penetration debuffs - no major/minor breache, no crushing enchants, set or CP penetration bonuses).

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · January 2017

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

One precise dagger and one sharpened sword...

No, both sharpened. Sharpened all the time. Unless you are in a trial with all possible debuffs up and with a warhorn uptime of like 70+%. There is no contest between sharpened and precise otherwise.

Wouldnt two sharpened daggers be pretty much the same as one precise dagger and one sharp sword?

No, sharpened gives around 5% increase per dual wield weapon, as opposed to 2.5% per sword.