Another try at a discussion about.. Animation canceling!

WalksonGraves · September 2016

As a vampire I find it a bit ridiculous that I can use a 3 second channeled stun and still get the full 3 seconds after ACing immediately and doing something else. That has more to do with initial hit applying a 3 second stun not tied to the channel than the ac mechanics.

PS4_ZeColmeia · September 2016

Malitias wrote: »

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

Malitias wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Stop dreaming man. Animation cancelling will never be removed. It becamed part of gameplay that many people stand on and love it. PvE meta is all about animation cancelling. If it breaks Your immersion just dont do it. About lag I think there are bigger issues that causing it then AC. No hate here, just my opinion.

More importantly, it should not be removed. Any player csn learn to get this technique down. It just takes practice.

If a player is experiencing lag it's usually fixable. I know players from AUS on the NA server that handle doing animation canceling. Hard to get more lag than they have unless playing the game on a potatoe which is more of a personal issue and not a Zos problem.

I AM NOT SAYING IT SHOULD BE REMOVED FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!

Why do you want to remove it? It's part of the game..

Because my muffin said I have to, otherwise my cigarette won't stop stripping.

With names like muffin and cigarette I think they were stripping way before you got there

Trust me

Malitias · September 2016

WalksonGraves wrote: »

As a vampire I find it a bit ridiculous that I can use a 3 second channeled stun and still get the full 3 seconds after ACing immediately and doing something else. That has more to do with initial hit applying a 3 second stun not tied to the channel than the ac mechanics.

It is still kind of related to ACing. ACing allows you to.. (I'll get even more hate for using this word, but screw it) it allows you to exploit the way the skill is coded, yes.

waterfairy · September 2016

Animation canceling is almost like cheating imo, you can't tell what the other person is using until you see the laundry list of instant abilities used in the death recap...it's one of the main reasons I dislike PvP.

I equate this "skill" as you call it to quick-scoping in CoD

idk · September 2016

Malitias wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Tgeh the thread is absolutly not needed. Zos has already modified the animations.

And they obviously did it wrong.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Additionally, the only part of the animation that can be cancelled is the extra, not part of the actual damage because if it is canceled to early the skill didn't fire. So we are done. Glad we had this discussion and I could help bring resolution to this issue.

Dunno what to say except that it's plain wrong. You can cancel alot of animations before you hit something visually (in the animation). Maybe you're not doing it "right"?

I think the correct reply is maybe your not doing it right if your finding it so challenging.

Malitias · September 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Malitias wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Tgeh the thread is absolutly not needed. Zos has already modified the animations.

And they obviously did it wrong.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Additionally, the only part of the animation that can be cancelled is the extra, not part of the actual damage because if it is canceled to early the skill didn't fire. So we are done. Glad we had this discussion and I could help bring resolution to this issue.

Dunno what to say except that it's plain wrong. You can cancel alot of animations before you hit something visually (in the animation). Maybe you're not doing it "right"?

I think the correct reply is maybe your not doing it right if your finding it so challenging.

Remind me of where I said that it's challenging to me.

I_killed_Vivec · September 2016

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

Malitias wrote: »

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

Malitias wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Stop dreaming man. Animation cancelling will never be removed. It becamed part of gameplay that many people stand on and love it. PvE meta is all about animation cancelling. If it breaks Your immersion just dont do it. About lag I think there are bigger issues that causing it then AC. No hate here, just my opinion.

More importantly, it should not be removed. Any player csn learn to get this technique down. It just takes practice.

If a player is experiencing lag it's usually fixable. I know players from AUS on the NA server that handle doing animation canceling. Hard to get more lag than they have unless playing the game on a potatoe which is more of a personal issue and not a Zos problem.

I AM NOT SAYING IT SHOULD BE REMOVED FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!

Why do you want to remove it? It's part of the game..

Because my muffin said I have to, otherwise my cigarette won't stop stripping.

With names like muffin and cigarette I think they were stripping way before you got there

Trust me

But they only carry on stripping because they are so bored with all this nonsense about "improving" (not removing!) animation cancelling.

Smasherx74 · September 2016

Malitias wrote: »

As the previous discussion was closed, because a moderator felt like the discussions was getting too aggressive, let's try it again and be more constructive.

There's alot of people having a problem with the way AC works, there's no denying that. It's not a "I can't l2p" issue, it's an issue with the way it feels and looks.
There's alot of people fearing that the removal of AC would make the gameplay too easy, from what I've gathered.

To me AC is a problem because, as I've stated before, it causes problems with client and server communication. Sometimes the client won't actually register the completion of the skill, while the server does, resulting in showing enemies having maybe 50% of their life even though they are actually dead. It also breaks immersion for me, because I want the actual "hit" of my skill to be visible in the animation. Some skills don't do that when using AC.

Now what I'd like to see is a change to those animations. Animations in which the complete attack with it's actual hit is visible and can't be canceled, whilst the part which can be ACed is a sort of downtime after an animation.

The goal should be to have only the part of the animation canceled which is not part of the actual attack so ACing won't break immersion and giving the player a more visible part of the animation which can be canceled. Making battles more immersive and believable, but retaining the benefit of being able to weave and making it more obvious and aesthetically pleasing, especially for new players.

Also ZOS NEEDS to mention AC in their game if they want it to be a part of it, which they seem to do. Otherwise the discussion and debates about ACing will persist for as long as the game will exist.

I think there's a solution with which everyone can be happy.

L2P issue, animation canceling is a fundamental technique in the game. They stated they would not remove it.

/thread

Mady · September 2016

If they ever remove AC, I don't think I will have fun in combat. Not because I can't kill something/someone without it, but because combat would be too sloooooooooooow.

Well good for PvP 'tanks'.... Kappa

Malitias · September 2016

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

Malitias wrote: »

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

Malitias wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Stop dreaming man. Animation cancelling will never be removed. It becamed part of gameplay that many people stand on and love it. PvE meta is all about animation cancelling. If it breaks Your immersion just dont do it. About lag I think there are bigger issues that causing it then AC. No hate here, just my opinion.

More importantly, it should not be removed. Any player csn learn to get this technique down. It just takes practice.

If a player is experiencing lag it's usually fixable. I know players from AUS on the NA server that handle doing animation canceling. Hard to get more lag than they have unless playing the game on a potatoe which is more of a personal issue and not a Zos problem.

I AM NOT SAYING IT SHOULD BE REMOVED FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!

Why do you want to remove it? It's part of the game..

Because my muffin said I have to, otherwise my cigarette won't stop stripping.

With names like muffin and cigarette I think they were stripping way before you got there

Trust me

But they only carry on stripping because they are so bored with all this nonsense about "improving" (not removing!) animation cancelling.

At this stage I am actually glad to see there are people who have read the post.
Doesn't even matter if you call it nonesense. I'm relieved to see there are people out there who don't comment based on what they think someone wrote, but on what he has actually written. Have my

Brrrofski · September 2016

Combat would be horrible and boring without it.

They'll always deny it, but I'm convinced the people who hate it so much are people who can't do it. They'll deny that and I'll refuse to believe them.

Doing skils without moving your sword properly is stupid and unrealistic yet wearing a helmet that spawns 3 green balls is immersion and absolutely fine!

Sallington · September 2016

Please stop asking ZOS to fix what isn't broken. They do that enough on their own without people requesting it.

Rohamad_Ali · September 2016

I don't see ZOS changing this beyond animation priority they've given to a few abilities .

Alcast · September 2016

Combat already feels clunky because they "nerfed/changed" animation canceling. Now it is actually worse in terms of QUALITY than it was before.

inf.toniceb17_ESO · September 2016

geezerrwb17_ESO wrote: »

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

Well i actually kinda like the idea of light attack weaving. LA gotta have some use after all right? What i dont like is animation skipping. This is simply a bad design when skills that were cancelled still do what they were supposed to do. Especially for PvP. And yeah AC in theory can cause lag 'cause it's an extra data for server to handle but there's not much they can do about it. You gotta be able to cancel skill in an emergency. But the fact that you can say use endless hail w/o your character even raising hands to actually shoot bow if you time block properly and if your latency allows it is simply wrong.

Like you say if your ping is awesome then cancelling works better. What about the other 80% of players that are not based in the US?

Lets keep things fair and not abuse flaws in the animation design.

I don't even play PvP but its obviously an issue that has been overlooked/discarded for far too long.

Better animations are well overdue anyway.

Just to make things clear, i live in Russia and my avg ping during prime time is 400, 170-190 during the day and late at night. Well if 170 pings allows you to more or less AC properly then with 400 you can't AC for ****. So i totally understand what you are talking about and i agree that this is a problem. I still like the general idea of weaving. Not the implementation however. It's downright horrible.

the_man_of_steal · September 2016

I read OP's post and my thoughts are I do believe many animations (most in fact)... One example is try casting shuffle then switching bars, your bars will switch when you cancel but the animation continues without being canceled. Even with Vigor these days the animation goes on if you weapon swap but not if you dodge roll. Maybe I read the post wrong, but it does seem like ZOS has changed animation canceling to how the OP wants it. I do not thing the animation canceling hurts the immersion of the player... in this ESO environment skilled warriors can send out attacks in a flash! Nothing wrong with that! Makes the game more interesting and gives it a nice subtle level of gamesmanship that really no other game has right now. I absolutely love it.

I want to disclose that I am a very poor animation canceler myself and there have been many a time where I have gotten obliterated in one half of one second due to a nice combo by an enemy. This doesn't make me irate as much as encourages me to continue to hone my skills and build so I may also kill at that lightening quick speed.

One Edit: On the issue of health being de-synced... This sounds more like lag than anything else. Zos needs to address the lag issues. Two weekends ago Cyrodiil was literally unplayable I must have been at 1 FPS on PS4. It was very frustrating. Once ZOS proves they can consistently limit the lag spikes... then we can talk about health not syncing but until then Lag is the #1 suspect.

Cheers!

DHale · September 2016

If you can't animation cancel then fallout 4 is your cup of tea. Learn it or don't but don't waste forum space talking about it it is not going anywhere. Attempts to change it and improve it made it worse. Stop while you are behind.

Malitias · September 2016

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

I read OP's post and my thoughts are I do believe many animations (most in fact)... One example is try casting shuffle then switching bars, your bars will switch when you cancel but the animation continues without being canceled. Even with Vigor these days the animation goes on if you weapon swap but not if you dodge roll. Maybe I read the post wrong, but it does seem like ZOS has changed animation canceling to how the OP wants it. I do not thing the animation canceling hurts the immersion of the player... in this ESO environment skilled warriors can send out attacks in a flash! Nothing wrong with that! Makes the game more interesting and gives it a nice subtle level of gamesmanship that really no other game has right now. I absolutely love it.

I want to disclose that I am a very poor animation canceler myself and there have been many a time where I have gotten obliterated in one half of one second due to a nice combo by an enemy. This doesn't make me irate as much as encourages me to continue to hone my skills and build so I may also kill at that lightening quick speed.

One Edit: On the issue of health being de-synced... This sounds more like lag than anything else. Zos needs to address the lag issues. Two weekends ago Cyrodiil was literally unplayable I must have been at 1 FPS on PS4. It was very frustrating. Once ZOS proves they can consistently limit the lag spikes... then we can talk about health not syncing but until then Lag is the #1 suspect.

Cheers!

Try it out yourself. Use Crystal Shards and simply hold on to that left mouse button. Some skills are just not working properly with AC.

Animation are interruptable/able to be canceled either before you actually hit the enemy or during the exact frame you touch the enemy. You then snap into the other animation without properly finishing the last one.

To the rest of you
I don't really have any further intentions of talking about the matter much. Hell we haven't talked at all about it at all, really, because almost everyone simply ignored the posts content.
People are defending something that is, as a matter of fact, having issues. It's not difficult to do, that's not the problem, it's freakin easy. But some skills are bugging out, because of it. Sorry if I want it to work properly, look good and be mentioned in the game itself. Obviously you don't want that.

Mods? You can close the thread. This topic seems to just bring out the worst in people and I'm not gonna try to discuss this topic with this community again.

*FF7 win theme"
Congratulations ESO Community

MrJKurayami · October 2016

I hate animation canceling. It is in many games. This is because the game is built on a world of war craft skill bar combat system. When it should have been made to play like the other Elder Scroll's games before it. Something more akin to Chivalry, but with life bars. That was their first mistake. To fix this game and all the balance issues, that it , and every single mmo who has the same combat style, is to get rid of it and use a better one. The reason ZOS always has a huge PVP balancing issue, whether for MAG, or STAM, or whatever. Is because this combat style is outdated and garbage, and doesn't really require any actual skill. It's so easy. But it really breaks my immersion, and lays the contrast between how PVE and PVP is handled to be quite stark.

When the game was released, I thought PVP looked disgusting, just particle diarrhea everywhere. (I didn't realize every single person in the game was a mage at that time) But now it looks even worse.

Zuuman · October 2016

I don't have issue with animations canceling in itfelf, but i hate being killed in 1/2 a sec from 6 attack i couldn't counter in any way, i admit most of this is probably just a l2p issue from me tho as pro player probably can counter those damage burst..