Don't get me wrong, magicka dk isn't great but....

Bandit1215 · September 2016

Have you ever considered that maybe Magicka dk is meant to be played in groups as it is EXCEPTIONAL at it? Why should every class be able to 1vX like a god, after all I'm pretty sure the devs are against 1vX. Maybe they don't feel magicka dk needs a buff because of how useful it is in small and large group play.

Luigi_Vampa · September 2016

What exactly is it that mDKs do better in groups than anyone else?

Autolycus · September 2016

Typhoios wrote: »

What exactly is it that mDKs do better in groups than anyone else?

Without taking an official side on the actual topic, I'd say shields, CC and certain group buffs. The topic is obviously more robust than this one opinion, and debatable. But these are my two septims, for what its worth (probably roughly two septims).

W0lf_z13 · September 2016

talons, Igneous Weapons, Igneous Shield... HUGE group helping skills...OH... and Magma Shell... can't forget that one

Brutusmax1mus · September 2016

Mdk can stack so much aoe and soft cc to control area. If the player is good, in group vs group they are normally the reason fights are grossly 1 sided.

W0lf_z13 · September 2016

perfect example would be..... group 1 from faction x has 2 templars, 2 sorcs and 2 nightblades but no dk..... group 2 from faction y has 2 templars, 2 sorcs, 1 nightblade and 1 dk.... group 1 from faction x drops a negate and everyone roll dodges out of the negate ... a few get stuck in because of encase but can easily get out.... group 2 on another instance drops negate with the dk being in the middle of the negate and spams talons while everyone else attacks .... the dk can keep multiple targets locked down as long as they have magicka left to do so

Bandit1215 · September 2016

IMO Magicka DK isn't dead, it's just that people aren't playing it how it's meant to be played, at least the people who complain aren't. People should be playing to its class strengths, just like everyone else does in the game. You don't see Magicka Sorcs not using sheild and streak because it's "how they want to play" because those are two strong points of a magicka sorc. Well, Magicka DK strength is having a lot of group utility and control on the battlefield, so maybe people have to just play how it is meant to be played.

Luigi_Vampa · September 2016

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

perfect example would be..... group 1 from faction x has 2 templars, 2 sorcs and 2 nightblades but no dk..... group 2 from faction y has 2 templars, 2 sorcs, 1 nightblade and 1 dk.... group 1 from faction x drops a negate and everyone roll dodges out of the negate ... a few get stuck in because of encase but can easily get out.... group 2 on another instance drops negate with the dk being in the middle of the negate and spams talons while everyone else attacks .... the dk can keep multiple targets locked down as long as they have magicka left to do so

You can roll dodge easily out of Talons. The range is very small now. And shields? Really people? Igneous shield gets destroyed by a light attack or two, or one skill. We only use igneous for major mending, not for the shield. Igneous Weapons? Awesome, we can give people a buff that they already get from potions. Magma Shell.? Sure if the whole group is stacked on us and activates the synergy. Or you know, anyone else could just run barrier.

I'm not saying mDKs are terrible in group content, but people try to justify all of our nerfs and current limitations by saying we are some kind of gods in group play and it just isn't true anymore.

Edit: In your negate example, you would be better offf having the sorc that dropped negate streak through the enemy group and turn around and cast encase. Now the enemy has to break free from the streak hard cc and dodge roll out of the soft cc. This gives your group a little more time to bomb them and drains the enemy of more stamina. This is more effective than having a mDK stand in the negate spamming Talons. One dodge roll and the enemy is out of range of Talons.

AverageJo3Gam3r · September 2016

With buffs to negate I feel like sorcs are better than mDKs in group play. Now we underperform even in group play!

Swainburg · September 2016

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

talons, Igneous Weapons, Igneous Shield... HUGE group helping skills...OH... and Magma Shell... can't forget that one

So what you're saying is we should invent, or further attempt magika dk healer? Thats what it sounds like.

Moglijuana · September 2016

Group play is obviously a better spot for MDK at the moment when comparing it to solo open world. And yes, in the hands of a good player a MDK can change the tides of a fight. However, almost every other class/build offers more utility to their group than a MagDK when in Cyrodiil. I like to think of Mag DK as a "Jack of all trades, and a master of none". This is what I have learned from the past year of extensive solo/small scale open world PvP on my DK. Some few tweaks on abilities and maybe a few number changes and they could be in a much better spot.

Xvorg · September 2016

Bandit1215 wrote: »

Have you ever considered that maybe Magicka dk is meant to be played in groups as it is EXCEPTIONAL at it? Why should every class be able to 1vX like a god, after all I'm pretty sure the devs are against 1vX. Maybe they don't feel magicka dk needs a buff because of how useful it is in small and large group play.

NBs are great in groups too... they heal, fear enemies and can take the siege weapons without being noticed... and the good ones can take an entire group in 1vX

Xvorg · September 2016

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

perfect example would be..... group 1 from faction x has 2 templars, 2 sorcs and 2 nightblades but no dk..... group 2 from faction y has 2 templars, 2 sorcs, 1 nightblade and 1 dk.... group 1 from faction x drops a negate and everyone roll dodges out of the negate ... a few get stuck in because of encase but can easily get out.... group 2 on another instance drops negate with the dk being in the middle of the negate and spams talons while everyone else attacks .... the dk can keep multiple targets locked down as long as they have magicka left to do so

The NBs from group 1 are doing anything? Because they can tele strike the dodge rollers and spam fear to get the group under control. You just need to kill 1 or 2 at that moment to turn the fight on your side.

STEVIL · September 2016

I tend to see my MDK as better off against numbers due to so mane aoe or aoe dot etc.
Add in the variety of group buffs.
Lather rinse and it does seem more in sync with group play than solo.

That said, i am not DK fan.

Stridig · September 2016

MagDK is by far my favorite class to play. Very difficult at times but also very rewarding. Every kill I get is well earned.

Joy_Division · September 2016

Bandit1215 wrote: »

Have you ever considered that maybe Magicka dk is meant to be played in groups as it is EXCEPTIONAL at it? Why should every class be able to 1vX like a god, after all I'm pretty sure the devs are against 1vX. Maybe they don't feel magicka dk needs a buff because of how useful it is in small and large group play.

Nope.

Because I have never heard any dev - ever - say anything that would remotely support that. In fact, I have heard the opposite. Ever since Beta, the devs have consistently intimated and sometimes flat out said the game was intended to "play as you want." The (unwise) change in the templar class to give it ridiculous damage dealing abilities was a reflection of that desire and Eric Wrobel flat out used that logic in his explaination to the change of the lastest heavy armor passives. The devs want to encourage every class being able to fulfill every role while not being pigeon holed into using certain armor or weapons.

As to whether or not DKs are "EXCEPTIONAL" compared to the other classes in group play to warrant using CAPS, let alone an intentional dev decision to make them non competitive solo, I disagree wholeheatedly. Every class brings valuable abilities and potential synergies to group play and there is not anyway to quantify, let alone prove, DKs are so far and above them.

thankyourat · September 2016

Xvorg wrote: »

Bandit1215 wrote: »

Have you ever considered that maybe Magicka dk is meant to be played in groups as it is EXCEPTIONAL at it? Why should every class be able to 1vX like a god, after all I'm pretty sure the devs are against 1vX. Maybe they don't feel magicka dk needs a buff because of how useful it is in small and large group play.

NBs are great in groups too... they heal, fear enemies and can take the siege weapons without being noticed... and the good ones can take an entire group in 1vX

Magblade is great in groups but pretty bad for solo play I think that's the direction ZoS is going for all magicka classes. Be good in group and stamina is suppose to be the rouge type specs. Because if you look at it most magicka classes have a lot of group utility but lack alot of the core combat mechanics to make them viable for 1vX type gameplay. Mag dk I feel is 2nd in terms of group play with magicka Templar being number 1 of course.

KingYogi415 · September 2016

Being able to permaroot other healers in a negate is OP

Kyye · September 2016

Sorc is best group play. Mag or stam. It didn't take the buff for this to come about. But since the buff sorcs have recieved a lot of attention, therefore bringing a lot of new ideas that have already exsisted. The hurricane is a slap in the face to DKs, DoT minor expedition (only source of this that I know of) still with the major buffs.