Update 13 Balance/Combat Infos

Mady · September 2016

Thought we could gather some information/quotes about u13 balance/combat changes. Some of them are somehow not in the Dev Tracker or 'hidden' in reddit. So they are quite easy to miss.

If you have some more info you can add them.

Eric Wrobel wrote:

We always take feedback seriously. One Tamriel was so huge we had to focus on the balance and new item sets. With the next major update we will be focusing on class balance and abilities. We have a pretty cool new version of Dragon Blood planned that will help magicka DKs while maintaining it's power level for high health characters.

Eric Wrobel wrote:

Yup, we definitely have planned a good list of buffs for magicka DK and also balance in general for magicka vs stamina DPS.

Eric Wrobel wrote:

Our goal is to make it more valuable to spend points in health instead of just going all magicka or stamina. The reason this is so powerful is you're getting to deal more damage and heal yourself for more by maxing offensive stats. The current design is still in progress, so l don't have concrete details for you right now.

Eric Wrobel wrote:

[....] for update 13 since there are a lot of class changes coming with that one.

Eric Wrobel wrote:

We definitely have plans to improve the traits that aren't as popular though.

Eric Wrobel wrote:

We want to make DK's have a unique playstyle that does not include an execute ability. Instead we want them to focus on pressuing enemy's health bars with DoT effects. We've got some sweet changes for magicka DKs planned for update 13!

Eric Wrobel wrote:

We're already got a pretty significant list of buffs for magicka DKs coming with update 13 and we have been reading your feedback.

New class ETA?

Matt Firor wrote:

[....] this is something we are thinking about - as we have since launch - but no plans for the immediate future.

Matt Firor wrote:

[....] this is our #1 PvP priority right now, we've identified a problem that leads to really bad performance involving our physics engine. Expect to see more info on it soon, but we have to be very careful with any changes to such a foundational part of the game.

Whoops, ten years old :>

Emma_Overload · September 2016

That's great that they're doing something for magicka DKs, but what about Sorcerers?

OutLaw_Nynx · September 2016

Emma_Overload wrote: »

That's great that they're doing something for magicka DKs, but what about Sorcerers?

Right now magdk's are in desperate need of help. I highly doubt they'll ever change their shields (sorcs or any other shields).

MaxwellC · September 2016

Lol wrobels reasoning is still funny. Sorry wrobel but anyone can cast a shield or purify indefinitely the DoTs away. In PvP the only good DoT to use really as a dk (stam) is poison injection. Noxious breath is unreliable asf since sometimes it won't even hit the person who's right in front and venomous claw doesn't really apply enough pressure until the late game imo.

Magicka DK wise there's nothing good to use in PvP but holding the enemy down and draining their stamina in order to smack them. They need to bring back cinder storm with major evasion n on top of that they need to improve the damage that flame whip provides. I look at vMSA for example if I get hit with a flame whip in there ohh shii I better run or Imma get smacked again n die. DoT wise in Mag DK it's useless you pretty much need fiery breath in order for DoTs to hit hard but then like I said before you can heal through them, shield stack them, and purify them. I won't even go into detail how CP double nerfs the damage lmao.

Minalan · September 2016

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

show previous quotes

Emma_Overload wrote: »

That's great that they're doing something for magicka DKs, but what about Sorcerers?

Right now magdk's are in desperate need of help. I highly doubt they'll ever change their shields (sorcs or any other shields).

Light armor sort of needs something for shields, because armor pen makes it as if you're wearing nothing at all.

Sorc needs help to get rid of the toggles, revamp some of the passives, and we can use an 8-10 second Hardened ward.

They have time to do more than one class. Don't worry.

Mashille · September 2016

@Emma_Overload

Sorcerers aren't bad at the moment though.Yes Magicka is generally worse than Stamina at the moment, but Magicka Sorcerers themselves, compared to other Magicka classes are fine. People have adapted to the shield nerf and they are performing well in both PvP and PvE.

olsborg · September 2016

Magicka dks and basicly every build focusing on dots is useless vs templars and builds focusing on cleansing, its just too easy to cleanse debuffs like dots, specially if you are a templar and can cleanse 5 debuffs with one cast. They need to adress that first thing if they buff magicka dks by giving them more dots. Or it will be ridiculous.

altemriel · September 2016

Mady wrote: »

Thought we could gather some information/quotes about u13 balance/combat changes. Some of them are somehow not in the Dev Tracker or 'hidden' in reddit. So they are quite easy to miss.

If you have some more info you can add them.

show previous quotes

Eric Wrobel wrote:

We always take feedback seriously. One Tamriel was so huge we had to focus on the balance and new item sets. With the next major update we will be focusing on class balance and abilities. We have a pretty cool new version of Dragon Blood planned that will help magicka DKs while maintaining it's power level for high health characters.

show previous quotes

Eric Wrobel wrote:

Yup, we definitely have planned a good list of buffs for magicka DK and also balance in general for magicka vs stamina DPS.

show previous quotes

Eric Wrobel wrote:

Our goal is to make it more valuable to spend points in health instead of just going all magicka or stamina. The reason this is so powerful is you're getting to deal more damage and heal yourself for more by maxing offensive stats. The current design is still in progress, so l don't have concrete details for you right now.

show previous quotes

Eric Wrobel wrote:

[....] for update 13 since there are a lot of class changes coming with that one.

show previous quotes

Eric Wrobel wrote:

We definitely have plans to improve the traits that aren't as popular though.

show previous quotes

Eric Wrobel wrote:

We want to make DK's have a unique playstyle that does not include an execute ability. Instead we want them to focus on pressuing enemy's health bars with DoT effects. We've got some sweet changes for magicka DKs planned for update 13!

show previous quotes

Eric Wrobel wrote:

We're already got a pretty significant list of buffs for magicka DKs coming with update 13 and we have been reading your feedback.

New class ETA?
show previous quotes

Matt Firor wrote:

[....] this is something we are thinking about - as we have since launch - but no plans for the immediate future.

show previous quotes

Matt Firor wrote:

[....] this is our #1 PvP priority right now, we've identified a problem that leads to really bad performance involving our physics engine. Expect to see more info on it soon, but we have to be very careful with any changes to such a foundational part of the game.

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

I hope that this what Wrobel said "Yup, we definitely have planned a good list of buffs for magicka DK and also balance in general for magicka vs stamina DPS."

will not mean nerfing stamina classes!!! or nerfing some magicka skills!! Please listen to our feedback very carefully when you will be doing this!!!

I have faith in you that you will do it right!!!

alexkdd99 · September 2016

Mashille wrote: »

@Emma_Overload

Sorcerers aren't bad at the moment though.Yes Magicka is generally worse than Stamina at the moment, but Magicka Sorcerers themselves, compared to other Magicka classes are fine. People have adapted to the shield nerf and they are performing well in both PvP and PvE.

Just because people have adapted does not mean they are just fine. I will say mag dks are in worse shape but as someone else pointed out they can work on more than one class.
Same could be argued that some have adapted to mag dks and are doing well. That does not mean that everything is just fine with them.

A buff to shield duration to 10 seconds would still be 50% of what they use to be, hopefully they will make pets better and shield duration will be a must if so.

ClockworkArc · September 2016

Thanks for compiling this info @Mady. You grabbed the wrong Matt Firor quote in relation to classes though. The quote from Matt in there is from when Orsinium came out.

Matt basically shut Wrobel down on that topic, which doesn't mean they aren't drafting ideas, but does mean they aren't ready to even consider teasing anything.

Mady · September 2016

ClockworkArc wrote: »

Thanks for compiling this info @Mady. You grabbed the wrong Matt Firor quote in relation to classes though. The quote from Matt in there is from when Orsinium came out.

Matt basically shut Wrobel down on that topic, which doesn't mean they aren't drafting ideas, but does mean they aren't ready to even consider teasing anything.

Wait, I just saw that this quote is *** old:

Matt Firor wrote:

[....] this is our #1 PvP priority right now, we've identified a problem that leads to really bad performance involving our physics engine. Expect to see more info on it soon, but we have to be very careful with any changes to such a foundational part of the game.

Whooops

But that one is new:

Matt Firor wrote:

[....] this is something we are thinking about - as we have since launch - but no plans for the immediate future.

right @ClockworkArc ?

vyndral13preub18_ESO · September 2016

olsborg wrote: »

Magicka dks and basicly every build focusing on dots is useless vs templars and builds focusing on cleansing, its just too easy to cleanse debuffs like dots, specially if you are a templar and can cleanse 5 debuffs with one cast. They need to adress that first thing if they buff magicka dks by giving them more dots. Or it will be ridiculous.

Nah just give dks a shortish low powered dot that if cleansed either does a very real amount of damage to the cleanser, or if cleansed Consumes all the remaining dot damage currently on the target and deals it as direct damage to the cleanser in 1 single hit.

It would be sort of funny to see cleanse spammers killing themselves in big fights. Of course I guess if everyone is afraid to cleanse everyone will move like a snail even more... ok maybe this idea needs some work.

Cryptical · September 2016

Eric Wrobel wrote:

We want to make DK's have a unique playstyle that does not include an execute ability. Instead we want them to focus on pressuing enemy's health bars with DoT effects. We've got some sweet changes for magicka DKs planned for update 13!

This sounds like how a tiger makes a big kill - grab the throat and strangle.

The gank-blades can be the hyenas, stronger jaws and forelegs than anything else on the savannah even the lions, but weak hindquarters so they use burst-damage. There's plenty of room in this animal kingdom for the dk's to be tigers, who do not eviscerate their prey with a huge damaging single execute attack, but latch on with vice like jaws to drag their meal into an inevitable death.

ClockworkArc · September 2016

With Black Rose Jewelry confirmed, I wanna try out Pelinal's + Black Rose + maelstrom 2h + lekis SnB.

Run SnB Vamp Dot Bar and a Stam 2h Nuke bar. Don't know if it'll work but it sounds fun haha.

ClockworkArc · September 2016

Mady wrote: »

show previous quotes

ClockworkArc wrote: »

Thanks for compiling this info @Mady. You grabbed the wrong Matt Firor quote in relation to classes though. The quote from Matt in there is from when Orsinium came out.

Matt basically shut Wrobel down on that topic, which doesn't mean they aren't drafting ideas, but does mean they aren't ready to even consider teasing anything.

Wait, I just saw that this quote is *** old:
show previous quotes

Matt Firor wrote:

[....] this is our #1 PvP priority right now, we've identified a problem that leads to really bad performance involving our physics engine. Expect to see more info on it soon, but we have to be very careful with any changes to such a foundational part of the game.

Whooops

But that one is new:
show previous quotes

Matt Firor wrote:

[....] this is something we are thinking about - as we have since launch - but no plans for the immediate future.

right @ClockworkArc ?

Yeah you're right I also didn't read the quotes right haha. @Mady

ParaNostram · September 2016

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

show previous quotes

Emma_Overload wrote: »

That's great that they're doing something for magicka DKs, but what about Sorcerers?

Right now magdk's are in desperate need of help. I highly doubt they'll ever change their shields (sorcs or any other shields).

My response was to play my MagDk like it's a sorc, and surprisingly enough, it outperformed my sorc.

brandonv516 · September 2016

I will wait until i hear more from testers before I cast judgment on magicka dk changes. In the meantime my magicka dk is waiting patiently for her turn to shine.

Edit: Also excited for my magicka nb as he already does really well in pvp.

Rykmaar · September 2016

The only way that keeping a DoT focus for DKs will be successful in PvP is if you make them immune to purges and let them affect shields more.

Anything less than that won't help.

sly007 · September 2016

Magicka dk should not get any damage buff whatsoever. I agree with a change to dragon blood or anything new dot mechanic that keeps the pressure but please for the love of balance, do not increase whip damage or dot damage. Magick dk already do a lot of damage with a pure damage build.

Others have said it multiple times. It's the issue of survivability while speccing into damage that cripples the Magick dk. This forces them to sacrifice damage in order to survive. Other than that, Magick dk are fine as it. There are lots of video out there with Magick dk going toe to toe in 1v1 and 1vx situations. Increasing their damage will make them too good.

https://youtu.be/tosAcuSnQyY

This is my magic dk doing fine in Cyrodiil.

RebornV3x · September 2016

Emma_Overload wrote: »

That's great that they're doing something for magicka DKs, but what about Sorcerers?

pretty much this so nothing for mag sorcs lol thats pretty funny zos thinks there just fine o well

Khaos_Bane · October 2016

ParaNostram wrote: »

show previous quotes

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

That's great that they're doing something for magicka DKs, but what about Sorcerers?

Right now magdk's are in desperate need of help. I highly doubt they'll ever change their shields (sorcs or any other shields).

My response was to play my MagDk like it's a sorc, and surprisingly enough, it outperformed my sorc.

Yes. I can get more DPS with my MAG DK in PVE than I can my sorc. Both of them have a few issues and don't even come close to my STA DK or STA Sorc.

Smasherx74 · October 2016

magick users are just trolls. Buff stamina and make the game great again.

Dracane · October 2016

ParaNostram wrote: »

show previous quotes

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

That's great that they're doing something for magicka DKs, but what about Sorcerers?

Right now magdk's are in desperate need of help. I highly doubt they'll ever change their shields (sorcs or any other shields).

My response was to play my MagDk like it's a sorc, and surprisingly enough, it outperformed my sorc.

I did the same, also did it with Nightblade.
And I can agree.

Khaos_Bane · October 2016

PvP videos with Metal music just make me laugh. Like people think they are badass playing a vid game haha.

dodgehopper_ESO · October 2016

olsborg wrote: »

Magicka dks and basicly every build focusing on dots is useless vs templars and builds focusing on cleansing, its just too easy to cleanse debuffs like dots, specially if you are a templar and can cleanse 5 debuffs with one cast. They need to adress that first thing if they buff magicka dks by giving them more dots. Or it will be ridiculous.

I'd understand that, if it weren't clear from the start that some classes were meant to have a leg up over others. In this instance, it has always been pretty clear that Templar was meant to be the Anti-DK. Other classes have advantages in this manner as well. It isn't as though the DK has no defenses against Templar tricks however, the DK can permanently root a Templar which is a pretty solid counter to a lot of what Templar does. There is a reason that a battle between a tough DK and a tough Templar takes forever, and I've got no problem with that.

itscompton · October 2016

The only way molten whip should be buffed is if they add immunity for roots or greatly increase the cost of rooting people. Fighting a magic DK on my Templar mostly consists of throwing spear shards as they circle around behind me so I can't hit them with puncturing sweeps and whipping me while I'm constantly rooted. Being rooted again the second I dodge roll or clear a root with a Purify drains both Stam and Magic very quickly. This combined with the fact that whip already hits hard enough to require a heal after about every third one next Magica Dk a pain in the butt to fight already. If they increase the damage of the whip while leaving the cheap perma root ability in place magic DK's are going to destroy everybody.

BlackMadara · October 2016

itscompton wrote: »

The only way molten whip should be buffed is if they add immunity for roots or greatly increase the cost of rooting people. Fighting a magic DK on my Templar mostly consists of throwing spear shards as they circle around behind me so I can't hit them with puncturing sweeps and whipping me while I'm constantly rooted. Being rooted again the second I dodge roll or clear a root with a Purify drains both Stam and Magic very quickly. This combined with the fact that whip already hits hard enough to require a heal after about every third one next Magica Dk a pain in the butt to fight already. If they increase the damage of the whip while leaving the cheap perma root ability in place magic DK's are going to destroy everybody.

Talons is a very high cost skill. It costs more than templar purify.

Brrrofski · October 2016

Magica Dk needs the most love.

Magica NB needs something too. They're just a bad sorc at the moment. I find sorc in an OK spot... Still lacks behind stamina though.

Magcia templar is fine abs hangs with stam builds without issue.

kadar · October 2016

alexkdd99 wrote: »

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Mashille wrote: »

@Emma_Overload

Sorcerers aren't bad at the moment though.Yes Magicka is generally worse than Stamina at the moment, but Magicka Sorcerers themselves, compared to other Magicka classes are fine. People have adapted to the shield nerf and they are performing well in both PvP and PvE.

Just because people have adapted does not mean they are just fine. I will say mag dks are in worse shape but as someone else pointed out they can work on more than one class.
Same could be argued that some have adapted to mag dks and are doing well. That does not mean that everything is just fine with them.

A buff to shield duration to 10 seconds would still be 50% of what they use to be, hopefully they will make pets better and shield duration will be a must if so.

Not to derail this discussion...But wouldn't simply increasing the duration of shields simply make Sorcs stronger by making them easier to play? I mean, currently Sorcs are forced to be strategic about their shield use, and when doing so can still achieve the same shield values they had before-- only now, a Sorc must actually play defensively to maintain their shields. Upping the duration would simply return us to the problem we had before-- the ability to apply tremendous pressure, with no threat of taking damage. I'm fine with tweaking mSorcs, but let's do it in a way that makes them more fun and not just easier-mode.

ghofmann · October 2016

Emma_Overload wrote: »

That's great that they're doing something for magicka DKs, but what about Sorcerers?

"there are a lot of class changes coming with [Update 13]." I'm sure it's on their radar.

ghofmann · October 2016

RebornV3x wrote: »

show previous quotes

Emma_Overload wrote: »

That's great that they're doing something for magicka DKs, but what about Sorcerers?

pretty much this so nothing for mag sorcs lol thats pretty funny zos thinks there just fine o well

They haven't even been talking about Update 13 at all yet, these are just a few mentions. They said there are lots of class changes coming, so don't get your panties all up in a bunch.