Aghhh shuffle

Syiccal · September 2016

Why won't zos admit shuffle is broken.
The dodge chance is far higher than 20%
When ever I try to attack somebody using shuffle from stealth the first hit is ALWAYS a miss which complete destroys my stealth attack burst .
I don't like using shuffle I prefer double take but feel like I'm nerfing myself by not using it

thankyourat · September 2016

Someone is over exaggerating.

Syiccal · September 2016

@thankyourat your right..shhhhhhhh we don't want zos to know!
I use it myself and I'm being honest with the fact it's broken.

Waffennacht · September 2016

Mine is broken then, I only dodge 20%

Hutch679 · September 2016

thankyourat wrote: »

Someone is over exaggerating.

Agreed. Maybe people are forgetting what 20% is. It's the same as 1/5. So if some uses 5 attacks, 1 will most likely miss.

If you understand probability, then you understand that each attack has a 1/5 chance to miss. Think of it like critical attacks. If you have a 20% crit chance, it is still possible to crit multiple times in a row just like it is possible to dodge multiple times in a row. It's not a hard concept lol. Shuffle is working as intended. The OP isn't a victim of improper game mechanics, he's a victim of probability.

Clearly a learn to math issue.

Syiccal · September 2016

Then every body I run into using shuffle has probability on there side especially when attacked from stealth.first hit misses nearly every time.

Hutch679 · September 2016

Syiccal wrote: »

Then every body I run into using shuffle has probability on there side especially when attacked from stealth.first hit misses nearly every time.

I don't think you quite understand probability still lol.

There is a 20% chance PER attack to dodge that attack. It is possible to dodge 10 attacks in a row and the probability still be 20%.

I'm not trying to be rude for real im trying to help explain. Have you taken college statistics?

thankyourat · September 2016

Syiccal wrote: »

@thankyourat your right..shhhhhhhh we don't want zos to know!
I use it myself and I'm being honest with the fact it's broken.

I use it also on my stam characters and I use double take on my magblade (my main). I don't think it's broken it's doing what it's suppose to do. It's a little too powerful I think especially against destro builds, but it is working as intended

Syiccal · September 2016

I understand I'm just saying when it's constantly happening it definatly feels like more than probability.

Hutch679 · September 2016

Syiccal wrote: »

I understand I'm just saying when it's constantly happening it definatly feels like more than probability.

The best way to show an example of probability is to flip a coin 10 times and record the results. If its a 50/50 chance to be either heads or tails then the results should be 5 heads and 5 tails right? Wrong. This is a common mistake made in probability. I guarantee you that coin doesn't land on 5 heads and 5 tails. Try it, record your results then report back.

Probability can be difficult to understand until you put it into practice my friend.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO · September 2016

Hutch679 wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Then every body I run into using shuffle has probability on there side especially when attacked from stealth.first hit misses nearly every time.

I don't think you quite understand probability still lol.

There is a 20% chance PER attack to dodge that attack. It is possible to dodge 10 attacks in a row and the probability still be 20%.

I'm not trying to be rude for real im trying to help explain. Have you taken college statistics?

you could use the exact same argument if it only gave 1% dodge chance, and be right. but if it was getting results like it is now, even though technically its possible, it would almost certainly be bugged. so shut up about the technical math it needs to be checked. it seems to dodges 5+ attacks in a row , more often then i would land 5 in a row

Solariken · September 2016

It's not broken mechanically, but 20% chance to passively avoid 100% damage is really stupidly broken design. No competent game designer would do that

SleepyTroll · September 2016

Syiccal wrote: »

Why won't zos admit shuffle is broken.
The dodge chance is far higher than 20%
When ever I try to attack somebody using shuffle from stealth the first hit is ALWAYS a miss which complete destroys my stealth attack burst .
I don't like using shuffle I prefer double take but feel like I'm nerfing myself by not using it

It's not higher then 20%. It's just that everytime it procs you can dodge and infinite amount of attacks in a small window. So you have a 20% chance to dodge 100% of incoming damage for like 1 sec(or how ever long the animation is) on ever proc.

Combine that with dodge roll, a tree and vigor and that glass cannon just achieved survivability greater then a tank.
Until of course the "insanely over powered just completely crazy" Jesus beam comes in or the new soul assault and curse.

Koolio · September 2016

I've noticed that I have been dodging a lot of attacks on my magic sorc. Nothing I have increases dodge chance. Do you think they increased the base dodge chance all characters? Happens on my magic Templar as well.

Mr_Nobody · September 2016

Any % chance should not exist. Make it either 100% for 2 seconds or dont make anything at all.

You can dodge 20 times in a row with 20% chance.

Juhasow · September 2016

Solariken wrote: »

It's not broken mechanically, but 20% chance to passively avoid 100% damage is really stupidly broken design. No competent game designer would do that

Excatly. You have roll dodge that gives You 100% chance to avoid atack You want and shuffle that alows to avoid 20% of others attacks. That's lot of avoiding . Compared to magicka users who rely their defense on shields or heals it's OP. Shields will absorb dmg but if dmg is higher then shield strenght You'll get remaining dmg also shields does not save You from applying multiple negative effects on You like cc's debuffs etc when dodge does.

Juhasow · September 2016

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Any % chance should not exist. Make it either 100% for 2 seconds or dont make anything at all.

You can dodge 20 times in a row with 20% chance.

100% chance in 2 seconds? Then I'll make 3,5k stam regen build and I'll spam shuffle each 2 seconds just to troll zergs and my regen will be equal to shuffle cost so I'll never go out of stamina. Percentage chances are fine when correctly designed..

jhharvest · September 2016

It should be a pseudo-rng where once you evade an attack with shuffle, your chance to evade the next instance of damage is 0% but climbs up with every subsequent instance of damage taken. This way you can't shuffle through a whole combo's worth of damage, but your chance to evade is still 20% on average.

In fact I think all of the RNG in the game should be replaced with some form of pseudo-rng...

Strider_Roshin · September 2016

Syiccal wrote: »

Why won't zos admit shuffle is broken.
The dodge chance is far higher than 20%
When ever I try to attack somebody using shuffle from stealth the first hit is ALWAYS a miss which complete destroys my stealth attack burst .
I don't like using shuffle I prefer double take but feel like I'm nerfing myself by not using it

Why don't you stop being lazy and test the move yourself, and realize it's not broken, and it is just 20%?

bowmanz607 · September 2016

so b/c your gank attempt is countered it must be broken???

Syiccal · September 2016

I use shuffle my self it's way stronger than double take that's how I know it's broken

Strider_Roshin · September 2016

Syiccal wrote: »

I use shuffle my self it's way stronger than double take that's how I know it's broken

No it's not. I've tested both of them.

bowmanz607 · September 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

I use shuffle my self it's way stronger than double take that's how I know it's broken

No it's not. I've tested both of them.

i agree.

it is a common misconception because people will confuse a roll dodge as a dodge from the buff makin it seemlike it is overperforming.

AfkNinja · September 2016

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

you could use the exact same argument if it only gave 1% dodge chance, and be right. but if it was getting results like it is now, even though technically its possible, it would almost certainly be bugged. so shut up about the technical math it needs to be checked. it seems to dodges 5+ attacks in a row , more often then i would land 5 in a row

This whole game is math, you can't take math out of the game, you're argument is a bad one. The skill has been checked multiple times by both the community and ZOS.

Furthermore don't tell people to shut up, it just makes your argument look bad. Refute their points with a well reasoned argument and math otherwise you'll just get ignored.

Komma · September 2016

Notice the people who have the high dodge. You will notice it is a certain group of people or normally the same people constantly. It is not the skill that is broke it is the cheat detection system that is broke.

Bashev · September 2016

When it procs it doesnt dodge only the attack that proced it, it cast a dodge animation and all attacks in this interval are dodged too. If you animation cancel light attack, skill and bash and if it procs on the light attack, then the next 2 will be dodged too.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · September 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

so b/c your gank attempt is countered it must be broken???

This is a REALLY common idea, unfortunately.

The first time I took my Nightblade into Cyrodiil, I decided to do a few of the PvE quests just for kicks. While in Bruma, I had a 531 CP NB open up on me. I managed to get my head together, reset the fight, and beat him.

Within a few seconds, I'm being rage-whispered about being reported because I was obviously abusing the Shuffle exploit to give myself a 75%+ dodge chance.

Here's the thing: I don't even have Evasion unlocked on my NB. I keep Mirage up on my back bar, but I only refresh it when it drops off, which is every 26 seconds.

So I'm guessing the default position for some gankers is "if-I-lose-it's-definitely-cheating".

Syiccal · September 2016

I'm not saying I loose I still have enough dmg to finish even if shuffle takes away stealth burst.
Plus I use shuffle myself as I personally feel rightly or wrongly it's stronger than double take in terms of dodge chance from using both and seing the performance difference

thankyourat · September 2016

Syiccal wrote: »

I'm not saying I loose I still have enough dmg to finish even if shuffle takes away stealth burst.
Plus I use shuffle myself as I personally feel rightly or wrongly it's stronger than double take in terms of dodge chance from using both and seing the performance difference

I don't notice a difference in dodge chance between the two abilities the only reason i don't use double take on my stamblade is because I need to save my magicka for fear. It's the same reason I don't use cloak. Now my magblade doesn't dodge as much using double take but that's because I don't dodge roll

Syiccal · September 2016

What do you use instead of cloak out of interest

FearlessOne_2014 · September 2016

Syiccal wrote: »

Why won't zos admit shuffle is broken.
The dodge chance is far higher than 20%
When ever I try to attack somebody using shuffle from stealth the first hit is ALWAYS a miss which complete destroys my stealth attack burst .
I don't like using shuffle I prefer double take but feel like I'm nerfing myself by not using it

The dodge chance on this ability needs to be reduced to %5 percent %10 max and no more.