When is it worth reporting a player? - What to tolerate? - Is it my business?

carljokl · September 2016

I looked at all the categories but didn't see one that was obvious to put this under.

I was in Daggerfall last night in the forge completing some writs.
Voice chat was on the general area chat.

I was minding my own business just crafting items to complete the writ.

I could hear an exchange going on between a couple of players. I could hear one player who's voice sounded like an adult man. It is hard to tell from voice alone.

There were insults being traded. I noted one person making a lot of homophobic insults against the other and using derogatory homophobic terms. I would not say I was hugely offended and it just seemed like schoolyard level maturity insult trading. The insults were not directed at me. I don't believe the person being insulted was LGBT either. I just think the guy wanted to insult the other and chose homophobic slurs as his insults of choice.

It doesn't help that Daggerfall was heaving with people and when crowded and lots of people are talking at once it can be difficult to figure out which is the player player who is saying certain things. Lack of fully spatialised area voice chat makes it difficult to use relative position to figure out which avatar represents the player talking.

But I digress.

Even though I was not personally upset or offended, I did think as a matter of principle a player should not be using homophobic abuse to insult another player. Arguably making continued slurs of any kind against another player is not community friendly. I thought about reporting him for it.

In the end I considered:

* He is not attacking me personally, is it any of my business getting involved?
* Am I overreacting? It is just a game, guy is angry and insulting someone else. Is this behaviour to be expected and I should just ignore it or leave the area if it is bothering me.
* Do I have any proof? Things are said in voice chat, short of recording the conversation it could be just my word against his if I claim he is using homophobic slurs.
* Will it accomplish anything? What would ZSO do? If this person thinks this is acceptable behaviour to begin with do I think any intervention from ZSO would change his mind? Will he just blame the people reporting him as being unfair on him?
* Not having been in the conversation from the beginning, am I sure the other person hasn't provoked him to make him mad and start making these insults?
In the end I just finished my Writs and left to deliver them leaving it to the other players to report him if they chose.

In hindsight it still seems like a fair response. I don't know there rules and guidelines on dealing with anti-social behaviour in the game.

Did I do the right thing? How should I handle situations like this?

Lightninvash · September 2016

I generally don't report anyone unless they are exploiting or doing something with malicious intent. Because if its words... well they are just words.... It is all about how you handle what people say. I mean the internet is huge and to me getting offended by what someone says on it is pointless. To me all it would do is make me upset and for what, I know I wouldn't want to be upset so why let it bother me lol. So I will just ignore people being stupid unless again they are doing something malicious or some sort of cheat.

MornaBaine · September 2016

If I have to hear that kind of garbage, it doesn't matter if it's directed at me or not, I report it. It is, in fact, a violation of the TOS everyone signs. So it's perfectly legit to report it.

Sheezabeast · September 2016

Well pat yourself on the back, you did the real life equivalent of sitting still while someone bullies someone else without trying to help the person being bullied.

Asardes · September 2016

When someone is virulently homophobic he may have something to hide

http://www.ranker.com/list/top-10-anti-gay-activists-caught-being-gay/joanne

Suter1972 · September 2016

seems every night at the minute in text chat

"is she over 16?"

"great im gonna b*** her doors in then"

and it continues from there.

or typical stuff insulting someones mother and how they have had 'relations' with their mother bla bla.

All playground stuff but not particularly nice to read

moonio · September 2016

You can ask people in 'zone' or 'say' to be mindful of ZOS & PSN code of conduct for text chat..
Then its up to them to behave better.

carljokl · September 2016

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Well pat yourself on the back, you did the real life equivalent of sitting still while someone bullies someone else without trying to help the person being bullied.

The situation wasn't clear cut one sided. Insults were being traded back and forth. I wasn't around from the start to be sure who started insulting whom. It is clear when one person is just insulting the other. It is harder when insults are being traded back and forth. It isn't always easy to read a situation.

The other person didn't sound upset or in distress.

Malfalas · September 2016

* He is not attacking me personally, is it any of my business getting involved?
Yes, it is, as Morna said, no matter to whom it was directed, it is still a violation of the TOS. Report any further cases - as the community we can help ZOS by letting them know.

* Am I overreacting? It is just a game, guy is angry and insulting someone else. Is this behaviour to be expected and I should just ignore it or leave the area if it is bothering me.
As was said, it is still a violation of the TOS. No matter how angry someone is, it will never be an excuse for using homophobic language and slurs.

* Do I have any proof? Things are said in voice chat, short of recording the conversation it could be just my word against his if I claim he is using homophobic slurs.
If it's been a while since it happened, there's not much you can do currently. Recording the conversation would be a good idea for any future instances.

* Will it accomplish anything? What would ZSO do? If this person thinks this is acceptable behaviour to begin with do I think any intervention from ZSO would change his mind? Will he just blame the people reporting him as being unfair on him?
It most definitely will. If intervention from ZOS doesn't change his mind, they have the right to hand out appropriate punishments for his behaviour.

* Not having been in the conversation from the beginning, am I sure the other person hasn't provoked him to make him mad and start making these insults?
The other person is of course another story, but as I said, being angry or offended doesn't mean you are allowed to use homophobic language, or anything that is connected to bigotry.

Runs · September 2016

I think it would take a bit for me to report someone in game over offensive/abusive words. They would have to keep going for a long time to bring me to that point. But I'm on PC and that would be in text chat so fairly easy to prove.

I can't recall where or when I heard it, but thought ZOS doesn't have the ability to check what was said in voice(unless a GM was present when it was said). I don't think it's logged like text chat is ,so not too sure what they actually would do. I mean if they enforce anything without knowing it actually happened then reporting could easily be abused by groups going after individuals who did nothing wrong.

But if it in anyway offended you, or you feel the need to report... Do so not only to ZOS but also Microsoft/Sony as that kind of talk also violates their rules. If insults were being exchanged both where breaking ToS...

carljokl · September 2016

Suter1972 wrote: »

seems every night at the minute in text chat

"is she over 16?"

"great im gonna b*** her doors in then"

and it continues from there.

or typical stuff insulting someones mother and how they have had 'relations' with their mother bla bla.

All playground stuff but not particularly nice to read

@Suter1972

I don't know if you are like me at all when that happens. Feeling out of place like one of the mature adults playing amongst lots of childish youth. Making me feel old vs the average demographic. I don't mind young people in and of themselves as long as they behave with respect and are curious. It is sad seeing how rude some can be and how they see no problem with this.

I have moments of thinking "I am not that old in the scheme of things yet I feel too old to want to still be dealing with this schoolyard behaviour".

I do wonder to the degree games let people behave in a way that they wouldn't in real life. In a single player game the characters don't really exist to be hurt by bad behaviour. MMO Players are not NPC's to be treated however their whims dictate.

altemriel · September 2016

carljokl wrote: »

I looked at all the categories but didn't see one that was obvious to put this under.

I was in Daggerfall last night in the forge completing some writs.
Voice chat was on the general area chat.

I was minding my own business just crafting items to complete the writ.

I could hear an exchange going on between a couple of players. I could hear one player who's voice sounded like an adult man. It is hard to tell from voice alone.

There were insults being traded. I noted one person making a lot of homophobic insults against the other and using derogatory homophobic terms. I would not say I was hugely offended and it just seemed like schoolyard level maturity insult trading. The insults were not directed at me. I don't believe the person being insulted was LGBT either. I just think the guy wanted to insult the other and chose homophobic slurs as his insults of choice.

It doesn't help that Daggerfall was heaving with people and when crowded and lots of people are talking at once it can be difficult to figure out which is the player player who is saying certain things. Lack of fully spatialised area voice chat makes it difficult to use relative position to figure out which avatar represents the player talking.

But I digress.

Even though I was not personally upset or offended, I did think as a matter of principle a player should not be using homophobic abuse to insult another player. Arguably making continued slurs of any kind against another player is not community friendly. I thought about reporting him for it.

In the end I considered:

* He is not attacking me personally, is it any of my business getting involved?
* Am I overreacting? It is just a game, guy is angry and insulting someone else. Is this behaviour to be expected and I should just ignore it or leave the area if it is bothering me.
* Do I have any proof? Things are said in voice chat, short of recording the conversation it could be just my word against his if I claim he is using homophobic slurs.
* Will it accomplish anything? What would ZSO do? If this person thinks this is acceptable behaviour to begin with do I think any intervention from ZSO would change his mind? Will he just blame the people reporting him as being unfair on him?
* Not having been in the conversation from the beginning, am I sure the other person hasn't provoked him to make him mad and start making these insults?
In the end I just finished my Writs and left to deliver them leaving it to the other players to report him if they chose.

In hindsight it still seems like a fair response. I don't know there rules and guidelines on dealing with anti-social behaviour in the game.

Did I do the right thing? How should I handle situations like this?

any insults should be reported! it brings saltiness and bad vibes to the community and is bad for the community in general (and it does not matter if the victim gets insulted or not), this kind of behaviour should not be tolerated!!

Abeille · September 2016

You are not dropping the ban hammer on them by reporting, you are just informing ZOS, and they will investigate. When in doubt, report, and let ZOS look into it.

carljokl · September 2016

Perhaps a slight deviation from the original point but am I the only one who really doesn't enjoy the atmosphere in the cities when they get busy? It might help if I just turned the voice chat off at those times.

I have it on because I hope to pick up on what is going on and sometimes people want to start interacting with me that way.

It is very common to be greeted to a deluge of vulgar language from the players. I tell myself maybe if I just choose not to be bothered by it. The other players are being emotive and not trying to cause offence. It isn't pleasant for me to be around.

Then there is my favourite. When cities are busy there is ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS someone with their music playing really loud over the voice chat making it hard to hear people talking or at the very least drastically altering the environment and the immersion. It is like the MMO equivalent of the person who deliberately plays their music out loud on public transport. They want to enjoy their music and could not care less if the others want to hear it. I suppose again I can report them. If I do I probably would have to raise a report every time I am in a busy city because there is always one. The worsted was someone in Daggerfall playing some kind of abrasive screaming / screeching noise as loud as they could over voice chat over and over and over. Still there were other players commenting on it and blocking / reporting him. He didn't stop though in all the time I was there. I got a break from it going inside buildings.

DYSEQTA · September 2016

Sorry to be the guy that hits the reality check button but here goes.

Someone was being mean to someone else and they were being mean back. Welcome to life motherf.... oh yeah I can't say that can I...

KaleidoscopeEyz · September 2016

Report if you enjoy wasting your time.

Helgi_Skotina · September 2016

Maybe only a nuclear war will save the world. Its all i want to say about this conversation.

Suter1972 · September 2016

DYSEQTA wrote: »

Sorry to be the guy that hits the reality check button but here goes.

Someone was being mean to someone else and they were being mean back. Welcome to life motherf.... oh yeah I can't say that can I...

Thats true and im on a losing battle here but I for one don’t walk around in the street, calling other random people I don’t know a mother f…. or that ive boned their mothers. I cant imagine most players would either. (theres bound to be one pyscho that does!)

Don’t see why you should act any different online, unless you have an inferiority complex and feel ‘protected’ behind the keyboard. Just remember, anyone can find out virtually anything about anyone online, including where they live…….

Just treat others how you want to be treated yourself.... simple

OrphanHelgen · September 2016

would take you less time to report him compared to writing this post

rotaugen454 · September 2016

If it was in voice chat, I don't see how they can do anything about it. They can't just take someone's word at it, as that could create a slew of "you killed me in PvP so I am going to report you for abusive behavior". Text chat they can actually dig up. It would be nice if people could be mature, but a random internet crowd will have a fair number of horrible people.

Autolycus · September 2016

Reporting accomplishes nothing. Block them and move on. Nobody at ZOS reads those reports, and none of them care.

Asardes · September 2016

There were people spamming the zone chat with scam prices for different crap items. I simply posted the MM statistics for the respective in the same chat to warn newbie players, they cursed me in private for revealing their scam and I promptly blocked them as a result.

Abeille · September 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Reporting accomplishes nothing. Block them and move on. Nobody at ZOS reads those reports, and none of them care.

This isn't true. If there is something ZOS bans people for, even permanently sometimes, is for harassing people and using slurs that denote prejudice. I saw many people complaining about being banned for that on the internet, and it is always the same excuse: "People are too easily offended, I was just joking". Good riddance, I say.

Nestor · September 2016

This is why you should transition to Text Chat, use Voice only for Grouping. Rarely do I see much in the way of insulting chat coming across the Zone Text Channels, and for a good reason. It's real easy to report someone, and they can check the logs to verify. So, people tend to keep their trash talk in check.

Tandor · September 2016

Thanks for the reminder as to why I have zero interest in ever using voice chat in any game.

Asardes · September 2016

Never knew there was a voice chat in this game until I saw this topic. The people in guilds use TS for trials and such so I really find no use of zone voice chat.

Waffennacht · September 2016

Take my ore, take my seige, bother me consistently and you'll hear all sorts of expletives.

Autolycus · September 2016

Abeille wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Reporting accomplishes nothing. Block them and move on. Nobody at ZOS reads those reports, and none of them care.

This isn't true. If there is something ZOS bans people for, even permanently sometimes, is for harassing people and using slurs that denote prejudice. I saw many people complaining about being banned for that on the internet, and it is always the same excuse: "People are too easily offended, I was just joking". Good riddance, I say.

Must have been an outlier. I stand by what I said for the overwhelming majority of cases. I've reported players with video evidence of cheating. Do you know what the response was?

The dwellers of Tamriel thank you for taking time from your adventures to report this offense. Maintaining the integrity of the land is a priority. We will investigate this matter and take appropriate action.

Said individual is still playing, and is still cheating. I just saw them in Wayrest on Sunday. I was also not the only person to submit video evidence of this player, and the other person I know who submitted it received an identical, automated response.

Please also be aware that you can add players whose behavior you find objectionable to the ignore list. To do this, open your contacts list (default: O) and click on the "No Entry" icon in the upper right corner. Now you have the option to add players. You can also do this by right-clicking on a player's name and choosing "Ignore". Once this is done, messages from the player in question will no longer be able to reach you.

This is a generic automated response. It's the same lazy, apathetic garbage we get every time we submit any kind of ticket, whether it's for reporting a player or a bug. It's been this way for about a year now. Last I checked, putting a player on ignore doesn't stop them from cheating. A real employee at ZOS has to do that.

If someone actually did report a player for something they did or said, and that person got banned for it, then they probably deserved it. It sounds like in this case there actually was a real person looking at the report. ZOS bans don't last very long anyway, so I doubt they were out of the game for very long if all they did was get reported for a mean comment or something.

Nestor · September 2016

Asardes wrote: »

Never knew there was a voice chat in this game until I saw this topic. The people in guilds use TS for trials and such so I really find no use of zone voice chat.

@Asardes

Console Platforms were released with Voice Chat Only, it was only recently that the consoles got Text Chat added. However, PC still does not have Voice Chat.

carljokl · September 2016

I didn't realise PC didn't have voice chat. That may be a blessing in some ways. It must make for quite a contrast on the crowded city experience.

Elsonso · September 2016

I thought that voice chat complaints were handled by the console (Microsoft/Sony) rather than ZOS.

The Elder Scrolls Online

When is it worth reporting a player? - What to tolerate? - Is it my business?

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