Can we get rid of poisons now?

dsalter · September 2016

attackjet wrote: »

What? They have a 10% proc. xD

20%*

even then multiple poisons stack, i'v been hit with both stamina and magicka poisons as well as some of the weak ass ones like damage health and stuff, those resource poisons stopped me completely casting when i was defending, whenever i popped my head back up after they wore out they'd hit me with them again.

the other crap i could shrug off, but resource poisons completely shut me down.

resource poisons overperform, every other damage type of poison underperforms.

Kelces · September 2016

Rykmaar wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

Just like other things happening since beta days: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/262756/poison-making-cant-go-live-the-way-they-work-now/p1

You can read in the same post the usual "fans"that are mayne not even playing nowadays defending zos and saying we overreacted.

I remember people complaining about poisons on the PTS when they were 30%. ZOS replied with "Don't worry guys, that's just a bug. It'll be 60% on live "

Yeah I agree.

I mean the very design of this system was to give people a choice between poisons and enchantments -- with the premise being that they would be on par.

Right now, they are they are anything but on par. Poisons have such a drastic impact on PvP that the only real counter to poison spam is more poison spam.

Adding a mechanic that can only be countered by itself is not adding choice, its adding something that players will have to do. Enchantments just can't compete in PvP.

I love the idea, ZoS, but the current iteration of it is far too much.

Poisons can't be "spammed"...

It is still a chance, not a guarantee (as it is with enchantments) to be applied to attacks. Yes, maybe that number needs to be adjusted, but it is not as bad as described.

When creating poisons, each additional type of effect reduces the time of it. So it's kind of a gamble actually.

Luigi_Vampa · September 2016

dsalter wrote: »

attackjet wrote: »

What? They have a 10% proc. xD

20%*

even then multiple poisons stack, i'v been hit with both stamina and magicka poisons as well as some of the weak ass ones like damage health and stuff, those resource poisons stopped me completely casting when i was defending, whenever i popped my head back up after they wore out they'd hit me with them again.

the other crap i could shrug off, but resource poisons completely shut me down.

resource poisons overperform, every other damage type of poison underperforms.

Exactly. Proc rate doesn't really matter when the poisons stack and you have multiple people hitting you. I forget though, a large portion of this community thinks you should never win a fight when you are outnumbered. Besides just numbers, zergs are given every single advantage in this game.

Kelces · September 2016

Typhoios wrote: »

Proc rate doesn't really matter when the poisons stack and you have multiple people hitting you. I forget though, a large portion of this community thinks you should never win a fight when you are outnumbered. Besides just numbers, zergs are given every single advantage in this game.

Always the same about multiple people attacking...

Wouldn't there be poisons, there would probably be another "nerf/remoe ability XYZ", just because someone stated something about multiple players attacking them with whatever it was they complain about. It is most certainly not the problem here, it is just the many attackers and it's hard to avoid death there, simple as that. Please don't use this as an excuse to get something removed, you don't approve of.

Milvan · September 2016

Am I the only one here that think poisons are a great asset for the PVP? It gives us much more offensive and defensive options. They are easily countered since you can cleanse from most of their effects.

Just because you can't master the use of it you don't actually needs to ask people to remove it from the game.

rotaugen454 · September 2016

Wait, so when you get hit by multiple people , you might die?

Luigi_Vampa · September 2016

Kelces wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Proc rate doesn't really matter when the poisons stack and you have multiple people hitting you. I forget though, a large portion of this community thinks you should never win a fight when you are outnumbered. Besides just numbers, zergs are given every single advantage in this game.

Always the same about multiple people attacking...

Wouldn't there be poisons, there would probably be another "nerf/remoe ability XYZ", just because someone stated something about multiple players attacking them with whatever it was they complain about. It is most certainly not the problem here, it is just the many attackers, simple as that. Please don't use this as an excuse to get something removed, you don't approve of.

I'm just saying that arguing the low proc rate isn't relevant when facing multiple attackers. It doesn't matter if it only procs 20% of the time. When multiple attackers use it, you will be poisoned nearly the entire fight.

STEVIL · September 2016

Typhoios wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Proc rate doesn't really matter when the poisons stack and you have multiple people hitting you. I forget though, a large portion of this community thinks you should never win a fight when you are outnumbered. Besides just numbers, zergs are given every single advantage in this game.

Always the same about multiple people attacking...

Wouldn't there be poisons, there would probably be another "nerf/remoe ability XYZ", just because someone stated something about multiple players attacking them with whatever it was they complain about. It is most certainly not the problem here, it is just the many attackers, simple as that. Please don't use this as an excuse to get something removed, you don't approve of.

I'm just saying that arguing the low proc rate isn't relevant when facing multiple attackers. It doesn't matter if it only procs 20% of the time. When multiple attackers use it, you will be poisoned nearly the entire fight.

If multiple attackers radiant beamed you then... what?

If three poison attacks hit you you have about 50% of getting proc and poisoned for the next 6-10sec.
If three radiant beam hit you, what are the odds you survive the duration?

phairdon · September 2016

Poisons are fantastic. Everyone can use poisons, so why get rid of them? All us playing in Cyrodiil are vulnerable to their effect.

ArchMikem · September 2016

I sincerely agree with you. I remember my first encounter with a Poison user, when my resource pool went from full to empty in 0.3 seconds and I was suddenly useless and helpless. I also remember Cyrodiil being hard enough as it was...

Luigi_Vampa · September 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Proc rate doesn't really matter when the poisons stack and you have multiple people hitting you. I forget though, a large portion of this community thinks you should never win a fight when you are outnumbered. Besides just numbers, zergs are given every single advantage in this game.

Always the same about multiple people attacking...

Wouldn't there be poisons, there would probably be another "nerf/remoe ability XYZ", just because someone stated something about multiple players attacking them with whatever it was they complain about. It is most certainly not the problem here, it is just the many attackers, simple as that. Please don't use this as an excuse to get something removed, you don't approve of.

I'm just saying that arguing the low proc rate isn't relevant when facing multiple attackers. It doesn't matter if it only procs 20% of the time. When multiple attackers use it, you will be poisoned nearly the entire fight.

If multiple attackers radiant beamed you then... what?

If three poison attacks hit you you have about 50% of getting proc and poisoned for the next 6-10sec.
If three radiant beam hit you, what are the odds you survive the duration?

Los them if I can. I don't really like zerging beamplars either. The main reason I don't like poisons is they have a huge effect on the outcome of a fight, but require you to do absolutly nothing. No skill. Just put it on a weapon and drain enemy resources at a crazy rate. It is the same as these high damage proc sets people talk about. They require no skill, just put it on and benefit from proc chance. It is lazy game design.

Pangnirtung · September 2016

Again a PVP concern that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with PVE.

Does anyone have real numbers of PVP vs. PVE players.

It seems like a small vocal PVP minority is having an impact on overall game play for those of us who never PVP.

Enough with the nerfs.

UrQuan · September 2016

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Again a PVP concern that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with PVE.

Does anyone have real numbers of PVP vs. PVE players.

It seems like a small vocal PVP minority is having an impact on overall game play for those of us who never PVP.

Enough with the nerfs.

To be fair though, the poisons that OP is complaining about are really only useful at all in PVP. A nerf to them wouldn't affect PVE at all.

STEVIL · September 2016

Typhoios wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Typhoios wrote: »

Proc rate doesn't really matter when the poisons stack and you have multiple people hitting you. I forget though, a large portion of this community thinks you should never win a fight when you are outnumbered. Besides just numbers, zergs are given every single advantage in this game.

Always the same about multiple people attacking...

Wouldn't there be poisons, there would probably be another "nerf/remoe ability XYZ", just because someone stated something about multiple players attacking them with whatever it was they complain about. It is most certainly not the problem here, it is just the many attackers, simple as that. Please don't use this as an excuse to get something removed, you don't approve of.

I'm just saying that arguing the low proc rate isn't relevant when facing multiple attackers. It doesn't matter if it only procs 20% of the time. When multiple attackers use it, you will be poisoned nearly the entire fight.

If multiple attackers radiant beamed you then... what?

If three poison attacks hit you you have about 50% of getting proc and poisoned for the next 6-10sec.
If three radiant beam hit you, what are the odds you survive the duration?

Los them if I can. I don't really like zerging beamplars either. The main reason I don't like poisons is they have a huge effect on the outcome of a fight, but require you to do absolutly nothing. No skill. Just put it on a weapon and drain enemy resources at a crazy rate. It is the same as these high damage proc sets people talk about. They require no skill, just put it on and benefit from proc chance. It is lazy game design.

So iy seems to me there are a lot of things you dont like othrr folks doing because you dont think they are skillish enough.

Hmm.. ok.

Got it.

leepalmer95 · September 2016

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Again a PVP concern that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with PVE.

Does anyone have real numbers of PVP vs. PVE players.

It seems like a small vocal PVP minority is having an impact on overall game play for those of us who never PVP.

Enough with the nerfs.

Who even uses poisons in pve?

leepalmer95 · September 2016

Zos won't listen they seem to be very firm on poisons destroying pvp even more.

Remeber when they were 30% on the pts when they were first released? Most people were saying they were a bit too strong and reducing them to 15%-20% would be fine, Zos of course ignored feedback and doubled it.

They introduced a poll about aoe caps, 80% say remove them, zos again ignored it.

UrQuan · September 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Again a PVP concern that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with PVE.

Does anyone have real numbers of PVP vs. PVE players.

It seems like a small vocal PVP minority is having an impact on overall game play for those of us who never PVP.

Enough with the nerfs.

Who even uses poisons in pve?

I use them when I'm doing sacraments... And that's pretty much it. I could see some of them being useful in boss fights though, if one person in the group has that poison equipped. Like I could see resolve-draining being useful for a tank, or protection-reversing being useful for just about anyone. Seems like that one could significantly increase group DPS against a boss.

Daraugh · September 2016

Poisons are a bane in pvp right now. I swear I had zero stam all evening on my stamblade. At least on my healer, stam poisoners ignore me. Even halved in pvp, the same way damage and heals are reduced for pvp, would be an improvement. It doesn't help the ttk, it just makes for a boring fight.

UrQuan · September 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Again a PVP concern that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with PVE.

Does anyone have real numbers of PVP vs. PVE players.

It seems like a small vocal PVP minority is having an impact on overall game play for those of us who never PVP.

Enough with the nerfs.

Who even uses poisons in pve?

I use them when I'm doing sacraments... And that's pretty much it. I could see some of them being useful in boss fights though, if one person in the group has that poison equipped. Like I could see resolve-draining being useful for a tank, or protection-reversing being useful for just about anyone. Seems like that one could significantly increase group DPS against a boss.

I hate to quote myself, but now that I think about it I'm totally going to start equipping this poison when I'm tanking:

Resolve-Draining
(steals physical resist)
-and-
Protection-Reversing
(8% more damage taken by victim, 8% less damage taken by wielder) Beetle Scuttle Mudcrab Chitin

Copied from this excellent resource here: http://www.sunshine-daydream.us/ESO/alchemy.html#Apoisons

AzraelKrieg · September 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Again a PVP concern that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with PVE.

Does anyone have real numbers of PVP vs. PVE players.

It seems like a small vocal PVP minority is having an impact on overall game play for those of us who never PVP.

Enough with the nerfs.

Who even uses poisons in pve?

I use them when I'm doing sacraments... And that's pretty much it. I could see some of them being useful in boss fights though, if one person in the group has that poison equipped. Like I could see resolve-draining being useful for a tank, or protection-reversing being useful for just about anyone. Seems like that one could significantly increase group DPS against a boss.

I hate to quote myself, but now that I think about it I'm totally going to start equipping this poison when I'm tanking:

Resolve-Draining
(steals physical resist)
-and-
Protection-Reversing
(8% more damage taken by victim, 8% less damage taken by wielder) Beetle Scuttle Mudcrab Chitin

Copied from this excellent resource here: http://www.sunshine-daydream.us/ESO/alchemy.html#Apoisons

Thanks for the link UrQuan. I shall refer to it when my Nightblade gets geared up

UrQuan · September 2016

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Again a PVP concern that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with PVE.

Does anyone have real numbers of PVP vs. PVE players.

It seems like a small vocal PVP minority is having an impact on overall game play for those of us who never PVP.

Enough with the nerfs.

Who even uses poisons in pve?

I use them when I'm doing sacraments... And that's pretty much it. I could see some of them being useful in boss fights though, if one person in the group has that poison equipped. Like I could see resolve-draining being useful for a tank, or protection-reversing being useful for just about anyone. Seems like that one could significantly increase group DPS against a boss.

I hate to quote myself, but now that I think about it I'm totally going to start equipping this poison when I'm tanking:

Resolve-Draining
(steals physical resist)
-and-
Protection-Reversing
(8% more damage taken by victim, 8% less damage taken by wielder) Beetle Scuttle Mudcrab Chitin

Copied from this excellent resource here: http://www.sunshine-daydream.us/ESO/alchemy.html#Apoisons

Thanks for the link UrQuan. I shall refer to it when my Nightblade gets geared up

I can't take any credit for that resource - I found it from a thread here on the forums (and I'm pretty sure people from the guild responsible for it are on the forums, but I can't remember who). It's really good though.

susmitds · September 2016

What skill is involved in running in a Blazing Shield build?

Alucardo · September 2016

susmitds wrote: »

What skill is involved in running in a Blazing Shield build?

Yeah, it's really not as easy as running into a group and spamming a single button

leepalmer95 · September 2016

susmitds wrote: »

What skill is involved in running in a Blazing Shield build?

Likely more than requiring poisons to kill 1 person in a 4v1.

susmitds · September 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

What skill is involved in running in a Blazing Shield build?

Yeah, it's really not as easy as running into a group and spamming a single button

I run one myself, so I know how it works perfectly. It is basically a PUG magnet that killed them off. All you need are buff skills, guard, someway to catch their attention and spam Blazing Shield.

leepalmer95 · September 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

What skill is involved in running in a Blazing Shield build?

Yeah, it's really not as easy as running into a group and spamming a single button

I run one myself, so I know how it works perfectly. It is basically a PUG magnet that killed them off. All you need are buff skills, guard, someway to catch their attention and spam Blazing Shield.

And whats wrong with that, it's not going to kill anyone with a bit of skill and knows what their doing in pvp.

This actually adds to point of this thread of poisons helping the pugs and the zergs.

Instead of those pugs learning oh, we can just root him or range him, he can't spam it forever. They'll just slot poisons and go easy mode, they won't improve, they won't get better at the game, they'll remain pugs because zos keeps buffing people who aren't good at pvp.

Alucardo · September 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

What skill is involved in running in a Blazing Shield build?

Yeah, it's really not as easy as running into a group and spamming a single button

I run one myself, so I know how it works perfectly. It is basically a PUG magnet that killed them off. All you need are buff skills, guard, someway to catch their attention and spam Blazing Shield.

You also need to cleanse sometimes. It comes with an added aoe snare which helps keeps people from running away from you in a hurry, pop a shield then sweep the group to recover some health if it's getting low, bats. If you do run yourself then you know that resource management is important also. Spamming blazing shield over and over is extremely costly, and so is blocking. If you can't manage your resources, you'll die fairly quickly. You get hit by a poison and it's almost a certain game over.

Alucardo · September 2016

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Again a PVP concern that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with PVE.

Does anyone have real numbers of PVP vs. PVE players.

It seems like a small vocal PVP minority is having an impact on overall game play for those of us who never PVP.

Enough with the nerfs.

Chill bro. I'm not one for taking things away from PVE, which is why I said they should still work there (ie: "works on NPC enemies" in my OP). It was the first thing I said..

Hamfast · September 2016

I find it funny, personally, I do not like PvP, I am not good at it and I don't care to learn, but if I came here and said how I wanted PvP changed so I could have a chance against all you experts I would return to read page after page of L2P, something that at this time I agree with because I know I don't know how best to fight other players... And here we have a post that says "I keep getting killed in PvP, change the game so I can kill and not die"...

This is what I call "Irony"...

Alucardo · September 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

What skill is involved in running in a Blazing Shield build?

Yeah, it's really not as easy as running into a group and spamming a single button

I run one myself, so I know how it works perfectly. It is basically a PUG magnet that killed them off. All you need are buff skills, guard, someway to catch their attention and spam Blazing Shield.

And whats wrong with that, it's not going to kill anyone with a bit of skill and knows what their doing in pvp.

This actually adds to point of this thread of poisons helping the pugs and the zergs.

Instead of those pugs learning oh, we can just root him or range him, he can't spam it forever. They'll just slot poisons and go easy mode, they won't improve, they won't get better at the game, they'll remain pugs because zos keeps buffing people who aren't good at pvp.

That's pretty much the gist of it. Instead of dealing with that tank, let's just slot a poison and take him out first. It's really that simple, and I've been in groups myself where people talk that way. Most tanks are essentially hybrids in a sense, so you take out a resource pool and it's hard for them to recover from that.