Mana/Stamina DK tanks

grom1024 · September 2016

I have recently done nWGT with my DD and there was some stamina DK tank was quite strange experience. The tank had >160cp AFAIR.

After multiple runs with my mana DK tank, I would have have expect the following from DK tank as group services, and many DK tanks really do some of it or all of it:

Taunts for hard mobs and bosses
Talons for CC-ing mob packs in compact group
Chains or ranged taunts to take off mobs of healers and ranged dps and group mobs for further burning by AoE by DPS.
Ingenious Weapons all the time (for high DPS parties I sometimes had no time provide anything more)
Ingenious Shields if party have survival problems (like 15K stamblade fighting engine guardian or end boss in vCoA)
Not walking bosses and hard mobs around unless there is real need to do so and dying rarely (so self heals, armor buff, etc)

This all requires mana to sustain, but not that much mana as I understand. Ingenious Weapons and Ingenious Shields are even useful for converting mana to stamina.

The only thing I have see were taunts, and armor buff. Tank walked constantly pulling big mobs around. No other services to party were provided. Even to chase portals, the tank was using charge ability rather then chains. That tank declared that she is stamina DK tank that she does not even have Ingenious Shields, and said "mana DK tanks are horrible" or something like it.

So I'm interested, if there are real mana sustain issues for stamina DK to provide all these services to the party (so possibly I'm expecting too much). In that case, I'm interested what services could be provided by stamina DK tank, that could not be provided mana DK tank to balance that. The survival of that stamina DK tank was very low (daedroths kill her almost on half of encounters), as no self-heals were used possibly except for bottles (both vigour and dragon blood have visible animation), so survival is not the likely service.

Lefthy · September 2016

I run a StamDKtank cp320 and have zero sustain issues. (I have run all Vets and DSA, not Trials)

I talon, chain, taunt and maintain my stamina with igneous shield so i can maintain my block up every time i need it, i dont run igneous weapons but i get my warhorn up almost all the time.

The secret its to have a nice magika regen to balance the lack of stam regen while blocking.

This guys you are talking about probably didnt figure his build yet or probably didnt care (Its a normal run afther all).

samytheslayer · September 2016

I run a stam dk tank as my only toon and the only mag abilities I run r green db, chocking talons, and igneous shield. You have to remember that us stam tanks don't have a huge mag pool or mag recov so we have to pick and choose when we use our mag. Personally I would never expect a stam tank to run chains because it would burn through their magic so quick. Igneous weapons, talons, GDB, and igneous shield r more reasonable but it could be difficult to balance using all of them at the same time.

samytheslayer · September 2016

I have 15.5k magic by the way which is more than what most stam tanks have

lolo_01b16_ESO · September 2016

A good stam dk tank can do everything you listed (with just trifood + tristat glyphs + cp you get ~18k magicka by default), but if you do normal dungeons with a random group, it's usually a bad idea to expect that your group members are experienced top geared players.
I mean sure, it's nice to have a group where the tank can handle boss + all adds, keep them stationary and self sustain so the healer can buff you and do some dps resulting in the boss dying very fast. But for random groups I'd be happy if the tank doesn't loose boss aggro and the healer can heal enough to keep everyone alife (as long as people don't stand in stupid^^).

And for the dying to deadroths: What was your healer doing at that point? It shouldn't be a problem to outheal that damage without the tank using self heals.

Lefthy · September 2016

samytheslayer wrote: »

I run a stam dk tank as my only toon and the only mag abilities I run r green db, chocking talons, and igneous shield. You have to remember that us stam tanks don't have a huge mag pool or mag recov so we have to pick and choose when we use our mag. Personally I would never expect a stam tank to run chains because it would burn through their magic so quick. Igneous weapons, talons, GDB, and igneous shield r more reasonable but it could be difficult to balance using all of them at the same time.

samytheslayer wrote: »

I have 15.5k magic by the way which is more than what most stam tanks have

Well, i run chains as one of my principal skils on my back bar.....

I use talon and shield too, plus cinder storm almost all the time and have zero issues with the magika as a StamDK.

You have to realize that with 1.2k of mag reg and 15k of magika pool you are pretty fine. Every trash pull i make start with CS, then i chain a couple of ranges and taunt the bad boys, 2 secs later i can make more chains or drop CS again and still have mana to cast Igneous shield to recover stamina.

Every tank should have one resource regen up, if not you are gonna have more work. for me Mag Reg its the key, i dont need stam regen since i you cant recover stam while blocking but you can cast igneous shield and get stam back.

If you do PVP then stamina reg its pretty important.

grom1024 · September 2016

samytheslayer wrote: »

I run a stam dk tank as my only toon and the only mag abilities I run r green db, chocking talons, and igneous shield. You have to remember that us stam tanks don't have a huge mag pool or mag recov so we have to pick and choose when we use our mag. Personally I would never expect a stam tank to run chains because it would burn through their magic so quick. Igneous weapons, talons, GDB, and igneous shield r more reasonable but it could be difficult to balance using all of them at the same time.

Extended Chains are basically free if they could not move the mob and they are fast. Medium weave on on bosses: half-charged heavy + chains, help to restore stamina actually with no mana cost. Extended Chains possibly the best way to close portals for DK in WGT since range is good and they do not cost anything since portals could not be moved.

samytheslayer · September 2016

Yeah I have 1.8k Stam reg instead bc of pvp

Brrrofski · September 2016

Well even though it's a stam tank, magica is important.

I run chains, talons, igneous shield and volatile armor as far as magica skills go. I have 18k magica and 32k stam, but 1.6k magcia recovery and like 600 stam regen. Also have cp into reduced cost.

I don't run igneous weapons, simply because I don't have room on my bar. But I do get warhorn up every 40 or so seconds.

As for WGT, just time it so tank doesn't get portals. Pretty easy to do. Unless it's a saptank (which portal closing is no problem on) it's way easier to do it like that.

caperon · September 2016

As everyone says, a good stamina tank can still chain and talon, just not so often. They use to run with atronarch mundus so having a low magicka (15-18k) is not that a big of issue and their igneous shell restores a big amount of stamina.

I prefer magicka tank for 4 man content, specially vDSA, you can spam talons, chains and igenous to protect the group, but for trials stam tank with tava and shufle has much more horn uptime, so its better than magicka. Echoing vigor is strong too in trials if you want to support the group with heals. Its not like magicka tank can't do the job (I tanked vSO hard mode with my 18k stamina no problem) but the things for it really shines (chains and talons) are not that important on trials.

About molten weapons, for 4 man content is fine if you provide the group with it, but any decent dps should have his way to get the major buf, its too important to rely on someone else in trials or even vDSA (here tank is super busy chaining, taunting and interrupting).

grom1024 · September 2016

caperon wrote: »

About molten weapons, for 4 man content is fine if you provide the group with it, but any decent dps should have his way to get the major buf, its too important to rely on someone else in trials or even vDSA (here tank is super busy chaining, taunting and interrupting).

Some classes have not convenient way of getting this buff. DK version could be cast before encounter. If we skip potions, NB version is available with drain power hitting someone that requires getting close to enemy. So if stamblade wants to open with caltrops or endless hail from distance, the powers will be go unbuffed, unless stamblade get close to mobs first and cast drain power. This is usually some waste of DPS. For templars, I do not remember about possible source of such buff, there were discussion that such source is missing not long time ago. My templar is still at level 27, so I do not know this class well yet.

caperon · September 2016

grom1024 wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

About molten weapons, for 4 man content is fine if you provide the group with it, but any decent dps should have his way to get the major buf, its too important to rely on someone else in trials or even vDSA (here tank is super busy chaining, taunting and interrupting).

Some classes have not convenient way of getting this buff. DK version could be cast before encounter. If we skip potions, NB version is available with drain power hitting someone that requires getting close to enemy. So if stamblade wants to open with caltrops or endless hail from distance, the powers will be go unbuffed, unless stamblade get close to mobs first and cast drain power. This is usually some waste of DPS. For templars, I do not remember about possible source of such buff, there were discussion that such source is missing not long time ago. My templar is still at level 27, so I do not know this class well yet.

Well, you are right, some specs can not get major butality (precombat buf), but really, use pots, buf last longer, you dont depend on anyone and you dont use global cooldowns (yours or of your tank). In dungeons, no problem use whatever, even in DSA ok (but i run pots there), in trials everyone should be using pots anyway.

AverageJo3Gam3r · September 2016

Any serious DPS in serious content should be running weapon/spell power pots. It's a net DPS loss to get major brutality/sorcery any other way. With that said, the only content where this is required is vMA and vet trials.

o0Velius · September 2016

I run a stam DK Tank, with no issues, helping my team with trash mobs. However I won't run both talons and Chains, at the same time, given the dungeon. Some require both but others require one or the other. It also depends on your team. I keep igneous shield up, my dragonsblood, and vigor at all times.. there has been. Plenty of times when I am last alive, spamming all three to go from no health to full health to get a revive off.

It depends on the player, their build and what it is built for.

My tank is made for end game content.. I switch my bars constantly depending on the situation at hand.. and as a Stam builds I still have dragons blood, incase I am low on stamina, and need a quick heal.. it reallyrics depends on the group. Most content depends on the group.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2016

On my stam dk, I consider igneous weapons a must. It is simply part of my buff rotation. Shuffle} draconic armor } igneous weapons is the my main buff cycle. Not everyone uses a way to get that buff, especially healers. And in pug dungeons, it is simply the easiest way to make sure they do. I even run it in vDSA.

@MrsVelius why bother with dragons blood? Vigor is a much better heal and costs next to nothing, like 2k stam. And effects the group. You get the important passives from draconic armor. Like extra healing and such.

@Brrrofski how do you have 18k magic and 32k stam? How much health do you have and what sets do you run?

o0Velius · September 2016

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO 9 × out of 10 I am last alive, and get down to a sliver of health. Pop dragons blood, in witch I use Coagulated Blood, witch gives me more healing recived and increase my health recovery.

So I pop, Dragons blood. Igneous sheild, then spam viggor tell I'm at full health.. revive.. and, theno my teams back.. what I get for playing with randoms. If I didn't play with pugs so often and didn't need the 2nd heal on my bar I'd switch it out. .

But I run 13k mag, and have no issues with it.. even when I have to pop, my dragons blood.

DemonDruaga · September 2016

Spellsymmetrie from mages guild works wonders if your healer knows how to keep up his hots.
I did vdsa yesterday with my stam dk as a tank and i wasn't build around magicka sustain due to pvp reasons.
But with symmetrie i didn't had a single mana issue even with spamming all your mentioned skills.
It is a somewhat underrated skill. And can even trigger bloodspawn between the runs to fill up ultimates

Brrrofski · September 2016

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

On my stam dk, I consider igneous weapons a must. It is simply part of my buff rotation. Shuffle} draconic armor } igneous weapons is the my main buff cycle. Not everyone uses a way to get that buff, especially healers. And in pug dungeons, it is simply the easiest way to make sure they do. I even run it in vDSA.

@MrsVelius why bother with dragons blood? Vigor is a much better heal and costs next to nothing, like 2k stam. And effects the group. You get the important passives from draconic armor. Like extra healing and such.

@Brrrofski how do you have 18k magic and 32k stam? How much health do you have and what sets do you run?

28.5k health.

I run Tava's, bloodspawn, 2 agility and 3 mazzatun. Undaunted passives, tri stat food, haijekos on everything.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2016

@MrsVelius now I understand why you think that is good. I see myself in that situation just hitting igneous shields again and then vigor. It is your job as a tank to be the last one alive, so I am not surprised that you are 9/10 times, as I am as well.

@Brrrofski I see. You use a different secondary set then I do, i use tavas and dragonguard. I do not have any tristat enchants either, so I only have 15k mana 28k health and 29k stam.

Nysara · September 2016

I also run MagDK. He is alot better than StamDK tank. I;'ve tried both and in my opinion and soloely my playstyle and experience. MagDK is easy to run because all emergency skills uses Magicka. Ingenous Shield, Talons etc.

I've been both heal and tank in same time because i equipped Resto staff on offbar and often casting Rapid Regeneration and Quick Siphon every 20-30 sec to help with heals and barriers. For sustain.that is not a problem. I'm not using any stamina skill. All my stamina goes to block and dodge. I use Immovability Potions to keep me sustained and CC immunity.

I suggest Argonian DK for Tank playstyle because of potion bonuses and heal received/done. For general, Dunmer is obviously nice choice with option to going Vampire for Regen and Damage Reduction at low heal.

Hist Bark + Engine Guardian Set is SUPER awesome to run. Even Armor Master does the trick too. Blood Spawn is also another nice option for more Resistances and most importanly, Ultimate Regen. So you can spam Banner all the time lol.