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Who makes the "META"? And who makes it known ?
WeylandLabs
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Just a random question that i was resently thinking of. So with new/revised gear comming out its pretty hard to see what going to be OP. I Guess people have different opinions on what is OP, exploits or broken. Or who makes/creates causes the meta to be known. If anybody has an idea of the creation of this or making it known. Really appreciate the different opinions and ideas on this.
Thanks
Thanks
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DKsUnite✭✭✭✭✭
✭The meta is simply what the majority of players wear. No one person sets the meta, it just happensVyr Cor | Magicka Dragonknight | DC
Vir Cor | Stamina Dragonknight | DC
Latest Videos:
Magicka Dragonknight: Vyr Cor | "A Dragon's Fury" | Magicka Dragonknight PvP
Stamina Dragonknight: Vir Cor | "Heathen" | Stamina Dragonknight PvP
Youtube: CorGaming4 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS creates OP sets/set combos/skills and then people use it because it is overperforming. That's the meta.
Black Rose is a great example atm.
Next patch you will see freakishly OP builds using 2x Tremorscale, 5x Knight's Errant, and a Master Sword. None of the other gear pieces matter much since this'll be so strong, though it'll likely get mixed with Clever Alchemist.
Welcome to the meta of One Tamriel, where Stamina is even stronger than before.
In the end, thank ZOS.
Edited by Vaoh on September 18, 2016 4:01AM3 -
WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭Let me ask ?
If somebody wanted to play this game for 1st time and not look really bad or like a noob. How would he/she know what to do ? Where would they go ? What would they read or what would they listen too ?0 -
InFernalEntity✭✭✭Most likely theory crafting and cookie cutter build guides/sharing. One person overperforms with x abilities/gear/class and shares it. A large number of people find that it works and it snowballs as they pass it on or make appropriate changes and improvements.Edited by InFernalEntity on September 18, 2016 4:24AMXBOX GT: InFernal Entity
Zoarava the Dark Reaper - Level 50 Khajiit Stamblade
Valyria Uviryoni - Level 50 Dunmer mDK Vampire
Pale Shade - Level 50 Argonian NB crafter1 -
InFernalEntity✭✭✭Rohamad_Ali wrote: »YouTube
^This. Also many YouTubers have websites with build setups. And a quick google search of builds can give you an idea of what the average players are using too.
You could also do a bit of theorycrafting yourself and just try to find something that works for you. If it's good you might even find the next "meta".XBOX GT: InFernal Entity
Zoarava the Dark Reaper - Level 50 Khajiit Stamblade
Valyria Uviryoni - Level 50 Dunmer mDK Vampire
Pale Shade - Level 50 Argonian NB crafter1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The meta is whatever other people have that kills you. When you become the meta that killed you, you instantly become "skilled". When you still die as the meta despite being "skilled" whatever killed you is OP.6 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shokasegambit1 wrote: »
Some people are just particularly talented at finding the most optimal way of doing something. They discover stuff that wouldn't even occur to the rest of us. Then they tell someone and word gets around. Other metas are more obvious and people are more likely to gravitate towards them cos it just makes sense.PC | EU0 -
InFernalEntity✭✭✭FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Shokasegambit1 wrote: »
Some people are just particularly talented at finding the most optimal way of doing something. They discover stuff that wouldn't even occur to the rest of us. Then they tell someone and word gets around. Other metas are more obvious and people are more likely to gravitate towards them cos it just makes sense.
Hundings/Julianos when they were meta because Crit + damage.
Impen trait when everyone started stacking crit bonuses to counter.
Currently it seems to be clever alchemist + Black rose. At least for stam builds.XBOX GT: InFernal Entity
Zoarava the Dark Reaper - Level 50 Khajiit Stamblade
Valyria Uviryoni - Level 50 Dunmer mDK Vampire
Pale Shade - Level 50 Argonian NB crafter0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Shokasegambit1 wrote: »
Some people are just particularly talented at finding the most optimal way of doing something. They discover stuff that wouldn't even occur to the rest of us. Then they tell someone and word gets around. Other metas are more obvious and people are more likely to gravitate towards them cos it just makes sense.
I've been playing the super high damage radiant destruction Templar build since the game came out. It's been fun seeing it go from, "that will never work ... bro" to "you're just using the meta ... bro".
The best advice I can use is formulate a plan and stick with it. If you can make your build work have at it. I run all infused, all magic enchants. I've had hundreds of people tell me how it's impossible to PVP without impen but what I do works great for me.3 -
WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭@FriedEggSandwich
So metas are created bye players with build talents, that show weaker builds/players what to put on ?
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THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Shokasegambit1 wrote: »@FriedEggSandwich
So metas are created bye players with build talents, that show weaker builds/players what to put on ?
Pretty much. It's just another way of saying what's popular. The problem is that some people get way too serious about it. For example:
- The "you must use Malubeth in PVP" people.
- The "you can only PVE with Mealstrom weapons" people.
- The "you can only PVP as a stam build" people.
- The "you must use Impen in PVP" people.
As I type it out its occurred to me that the meta in PVE is much more about your best weapons, while in PVP it's about your entire build. I'm sure it swings both ways, but this is what I've noticed.2 -
InFernalEntity✭✭✭@Shokasegambit1 simply put, yes. Though there are people who can make it work without the meta like @danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO said, if you take a plan for a build and stick with it you'll find it can work pretty well or where you can improve it. And Like I said you might just find the next meta.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Sets
If you need some basic guide to start theory crafting this lists all sets + their bonuses in the game.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Races
This will give you all the racial passives.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Class+Skills
This will give you the class abilities and passives.
It's more fun trying to work outside the meta to find something that works for you than simply building another cookie cutter class setup. However, if you want a few top meta builds I'd look up Alcast or Deltias on YouTube, or visit their websites.XBOX GT: InFernal Entity
Zoarava the Dark Reaper - Level 50 Khajiit Stamblade
Valyria Uviryoni - Level 50 Dunmer mDK Vampire
Pale Shade - Level 50 Argonian NB crafter0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Also, chasing the meta is very expensive. It changes every 3 months. Last winter Templars were the worst class by far. Now many believe they are the best. Stamina is very strong currently but you could spend 1,000,000 gold upgrading your CP160 gear only to take a nerf hammer to the face somewhere down the line. This is why it's important just to build for a style that suits you best.3 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Meta is usually constructed from Minmaxers who figure out what is best at the time, then spreads from word of mouth.
But the Meta is far from infallable. (AKA, the number of twits currently on NA PC who keep running sub 20 K health because 16 K health is the optimal apparently, even though they keep geting oneshotted.) And needs to be taken with a grain of salt. It's a guide, another tool in the endless arsenal to be managed.
Think for yourself. You'll have alot more fun and have alot better understanding of the mechanics.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on September 18, 2016 5:00AM1 -
InFernalEntity✭✭✭danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »Also, chasing the meta is very expensive. It changes every 3 months. Last winter Templars were the worst class by far. Now many believe they are the best. Stamina is very strong currently but you could spend 1,000,000 gold upgrading your CP160 gear only to take a nerf hammer to the face somewhere down the line. This is why it's important just to build for a style that suits you best.
^100% true. Meta will most likely change quite a bit next month with the One Tamriel update because they're adding 40+ gear sets to the game. That's not to mention weapon ultimates being added + general buffing/nerfing of abilities.
It will also continue to change with every major update because again gear, buffs, nerfs etc.XBOX GT: InFernal Entity
Zoarava the Dark Reaper - Level 50 Khajiit Stamblade
Valyria Uviryoni - Level 50 Dunmer mDK Vampire
Pale Shade - Level 50 Argonian NB crafter0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just for giggles here is my current PVP build.
1 Kena
5 Vicious Death
5 Julianos
And for PVE ...
1 Kena
5 Julianos
3 Willpower
2 Magus
I'm sure there is something out there that would help me outpulse 0.004% more DPS but these work for me. All of it is infused. My PVE set up has 44.4K magicka and 3.4K spell power while I'm fighting. PVP is about 42.5 and 3.4 but VD hits for 19k.0 -
WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭Fantastic comments guys much appreciated, as i dont need to follow any builds on youtube or websites.
This was to find out the state of mind of people on the forums vs the people i play with. I have to say i wish i was playing with all of you. Its alot different on console unfortunately. I have been running BR since Nov of 2015 on my stam sorc. So i know the pain that @danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO is talking about. I have saw this mutation of meta slowly, yet its really bad now and forcing me to change my build with the awesome update ZOS is providing us.
I can most definitely relate with everybodys views and comments. @InFernalEntity Thank you for all of the great input.
If i had to ask 1 more question, it would be where does skill play into this ? How do we know who is good and who isnt ? I would like to fight the best players instead of the meta builds. Or is skill sadly over since 1.6 ? Or is it making a huge come back with 2.6.0 ?0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Re: Skill
Everyone judges it differently. I'm primarily a PVPer so I base it on can I kill my target in the most efficient way possible to move onto the next target. Meanwhile some people will criticize my "skill" as "only hitting 1 button" (which isn't accurate but a common complaint).
Some people view it as who can duel the best. Other "best" PVPers are great at getting AP or running a group.
It's all really subjective. The best PVPers just have "it" whatever that is. You'll know it when you see it.
Adding : I also believe skill is being prepared for every situation that comes up. Preparation is a skill. Having the right potions is a skill. Taking time away from your favorite activities to farm materials that make you better down the road is a skill. There are a lot of hardcore players that have been caught up to skill wise by the less hardcore because while the former were PVPing the later were hoarding materials (thinking ahead) to give themselves advantages a year or two down the line.Edited by THEDKEXPERIENCE on September 18, 2016 5:24AM1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Simply put.
You'll know a good DPS by not having to worry about them. They do good DPS, barely take damage, and you dont need to actively think about them.
The tank is anyone who can hold damage and not have any danger of him dying.
A good healer is the kind of heals where you can just focus on doing your job because their heals are so good.
...And presumibly the best PVPers are the guys who wreck your face and soul. I wouldn't know, I dont PVP.2 -
InFernalEntity✭✭✭I also play console and must say 1 of my builds is suffering but the other is thriving.
As far as skills vs stats/build goes in PVP...
Solo players/small groups will need more skill. Solo players can easily take on 2/3 players who fit the meta if they know exactly how their build plays rather than just trying to fit the meta build. Familiarity, comfort and practice with your build trumps players just trying to keep up with what's popular in a 1 on 1.
Large zergs are 100% stat based because you don't need skill for 20 players to take down a group of 2 or 3...just to generate the numbers. So if you're running in large groups meta beats skill.
In trials or dungeons? Skill or at least practice/knowledge of mechanics can make up for less than optimal build but build still plays a major role in the more difficult PVE content.
Edit: With 1v1 dueling coming in One Tamriel it should be easy to see who's good with the meta and who's just running it to stay relevant. Also will be interesting to see if there becomes a seperate meta for 1v1 dueling.Edited by InFernalEntity on September 18, 2016 5:20AMXBOX GT: InFernal Entity
Zoarava the Dark Reaper - Level 50 Khajiit Stamblade
Valyria Uviryoni - Level 50 Dunmer mDK Vampire
Pale Shade - Level 50 Argonian NB crafter1 -
OneKhajiitCrimeWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭Khajiit always prefers (pre-furs) to be ahead of the curve, and not riding the wave.
To this end humble Khajiit reads the natch potes, views and reviews the new sets and the sets being made to max level. Then this one makes the builds for characters based on this. Sometimes it matches the 'meta,' sometimes it does not, but they are always the build that this one has created or chosen.Dark Flare is the Beginning, Radiant is the End. Hail the Light Bringers!1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭PVP is mostly about aggression. If you can keep the pressure on your opponent you'll win more than you lose. Do it enough and the game slows down for you.
Have you ever seen the steamroller scene from Austin Powers? Bad PVPers are the guy who instead of moving, panics and does almost nothing. Good PVPers are the steamroller.2 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »FriedEggSandwich wrote: »Shokasegambit1 wrote: »
Some people are just particularly talented at finding the most optimal way of doing something. They discover stuff that wouldn't even occur to the rest of us. Then they tell someone and word gets around. Other metas are more obvious and people are more likely to gravitate towards them cos it just makes sense.
I've been playing the super high damage radiant destruction Templar build since the game came out. It's been fun seeing it go from, "that will never work ... bro" to "you're just using the meta ... bro".
The best advice I can use is formulate a plan and stick with it. If you can make your build work have at it. I run all infused, all magic enchants. I've had hundreds of people tell me how it's impossible to PVP without impen but what I do works great for me.
Yeah I've played almost nothing but sorc since launch on pc and it's been interesting to see it rise and fall in favour. The rotation I have now is not that far off the original pvp rotation I came up with over 2 years ago, but even then it wasn't really mine; I took inspiration from one of the only eso streamers back then who happened to play sorc (snackbeard). He plays smite these days but I think he still has some eso clips on his channel.
What I wear has changed a lot though. Originally it was stuff I had theorycrafted; twilight's embrace, seducer, cyrodiil's light etc. I think warlock was the first time I looked for a set because I was told it was BiS, then martial knowledge, and I didn't work out for myself that willpower was BiS, or kagrenacs. Recently though I've gone back to seducer and that was mostly my own idea through necessity. I was running out of resources after TG or DB patch and heard people were switching to lich which was unattainable for me. I knew they were similar sets so I tried out seducer and liked it a lot. It was also my idea to use 1 kena, 1 bloodspawn and 1 maelstrom staff for the remaining 3 slots, but I know other people have also come to the same conclusion independently, and I didn't discover the usefulness of those individual items; I heard about kena and bs from other players. So I'm not sure if anyone can take full credit for their build, the most anyone ever does is put their own twist on it.
I like to think my style of play in pvp is unique; I've never used force pulse in pvp as a sorc and instead use mage's wrath as a "dps filler", but I've come across other players who do the same, and they came across that play style independently of me. With many minds working towards the same cause it's inevitable someone else will come to the same conclusion as you in some respect, and it's inevitable you'll take inspiration from others in other respects.PC | EU1 -
InFernalEntity✭✭✭danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »PVP is mostly about aggression. If you can keep the pressure on your opponent you'll win more than you lose. Do it enough and the game slows down for you.
Have you ever seen the steamroller scene from Austin Powers? Bad PVPers are the guy who instead of moving, panics and does almost nothing. Good PVPers are the steamroller.
Momentum is key. Especially with the assault passives + bonuses for capturing keeeps + scrolls. The faster and harder your group works in PVP the more bonuses you'll get and so the easier it gets because of the advantages over the other players.XBOX GT: InFernal Entity
Zoarava the Dark Reaper - Level 50 Khajiit Stamblade
Valyria Uviryoni - Level 50 Dunmer mDK Vampire
Pale Shade - Level 50 Argonian NB crafter1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭InFernalEntity wrote: »danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »PVP is mostly about aggression. If you can keep the pressure on your opponent you'll win more than you lose. Do it enough and the game slows down for you.
Have you ever seen the steamroller scene from Austin Powers? Bad PVPers are the guy who instead of moving, panics and does almost nothing. Good PVPers are the steamroller.
Momentum is key. Especially with the assault passives + bonuses for capturing keeeps + scrolls. The faster and harder your group works in PVP the more bonuses you'll get and so the easier it gets because of the advantages over the other players.
Yet another "skill" that gets lost on many. Knowing how the game rewards you is a skill. Well stated.1 -
FriedEggSandwich✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shokasegambit1 wrote: »@FriedEggSandwich
So metas are created bye players with build talents, that show weaker builds/players what to put on ?
Some yes, like the multiple mundus meta, and the overload toggle meta. Ok so they were exploits but they were also meta for a while and although I never used them I admire people who can discover stuff like that.PC | EU1 -
WeylandLabs✭✭✭✭✭@FriedEggSandwich
I am convinced that some very smart intellectual person finds bugs in some builds. And being good at heart reported it and put it in the exploit/bug section. Then some kids get home to find it on the forums, make it and start exploiting thus telling his friends etc, etc.0
