One last try...

sirinsidiator · September 2016

... before I'll do something that I will probably regret later.

Dear ZOS,

Please change how the guild trader bid system works. The current form is impacting your players live and health in a negative way. I am officer in one of the oldest trading guilds on the EU server and since almost exactly one year ago I wake up at 4 am on a Tuesday every week to help make sure that our guild has a trader. Since a few weeks it is has started to impact my health and work as it messes up my sleep schedule (I wonder how I was able to endure for that long) and I also read about more and more players in the same situation. My personality does not allow me to just not be there at that time as I would feel like I let my guild down, so the only way I see is to make you change this part of the game.

I have been playing since beta and log in almost every day. I really love Tamriel and the community, but I am getting to a point where I will turn from a supportive fan to and angry fan. Before that happens, I would like to see a change to when the switchover happens (a reasonable time like Sunday evening would be good) or a complete replacement with some other system that does not require players to be around when the change happens in order to secure a trader. If you still think there is no need for action, I will post here again and again and put more effort behind it every time until there is some change.

One possible solution for a system that does not require player intervention is to simply allow guilds to buy a spot for some amount of gold and adjust the required amount the following week depending on how many guilds were there. For example it costs 100k initially and 5 guilds place themselve on a certain trader. The next week it costs 500k to get a spot there. Because of that only 1 guild can afford to reserve a spot and the week after the amount required goes down again to half of what it was + 100k for one guild. That way the whole system becomes a lot more predictable as you always get the spot you payed for and it also gives small guilds a chance to go to a main trading hub like Craglorn for a week.

Yours sincerly,
sirinsidiator

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert

Lava_Croft · September 2016

It's better to just step back and watch from a distance, Siri. Better for your health, better for your mood and there's a ton of other games that are managed by people who do know what they're doing and actually care for their customers even if they aren't Crown Store raiders.

Ch4mpTW · September 2016

Lol... Wait... Wait what? A decision that you made to wake-up early for activities based around a game is effecting your health, and ZOS is held responsible? What bruh? What exactly did I just read?

Edit: WTF? Did I read a threat in that!? Lmao!

Lava_Croft · September 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lol... Wait... Wait what? A decision that you made to wake-up early for activities based around a game is effecting your health, and ZOS is held responsible? What bruh? What exactly did I just read?

If people want to run a large trading guild on the EU server, that means they need a trader in a good location. Having a trader in a good location means getting up in the middle of the night.

The success of getting a guild trader in a good location should not depend on who has the ability to get out of bed in the middle of the night just to bid on the trader.

andreasv · September 2016

You had me at the second paragraph where you threatened ZOS. Nothing's more entertaining than a good old "You don't like me when I'm mad" thread on a video game forum.

redspecter23 · September 2016

Your point is as valid as it has been for over a year. The changeover time is horrible for both NA and EU and so far ZoS just doesn't seem to care. Maybe one of these days after enough player support they will make some changes to ease the stress on trade guild GM's

alpehans · September 2016

It's EU , you really think ZOS cares ?

Yuls · September 2016

This must be the most un-Sid-ish post I have ever read.
Whilst I certainly can understand your frustration - and the times are indeed horrible for both NA and EU, as many others have pointed out in other threads too - you nevertheless might want to edit one or 2 sentences, because they'll get you nowhere, or make them just ignore your valid points at criticizing the current awful bidding system and times.

sirinsidiator · September 2016

Yuls wrote: »

This must be the most un-Sid-ish post I have ever read.
Whilst I certainly can understand your frustration - and the times are indeed horrible for both NA and EU, as many others have pointed out in other threads too - you nevertheless might want to edit one or 2 sentences, because they'll get you nowhere, or make them just ignore your valid points at criticizing the current awful bidding system and times.

You are right. I lost myself for a moment there. Guess I'll change it.

sirinsidiator · September 2016

Lava_Croft wrote: »

It's better to just step back and watch from a distance, Siri. Better for your health, better for your mood and there's a ton of other games that are managed by people who do know what they're doing and actually care for their customers even if they aren't Crown Store raiders.

I am already as far away as I can go without leaving the game completely. This is the only point that drives me mad as I don't see any way around it.

RAGUNAnoOne · September 2016

Can't you get a VP ot someone to bid on your behalf and just take a few days off? But yeah the time is a bit odd why 4 and why tuesday?

iAmLife · September 2016

Hello, I came here to meet new people

SantieClaws · September 2016

If this guy speaks then ZoS they should be listening.

Sid makes many of the very best addons for ESO. If he left then it would be a massive loss for the whole community.

Yours with concerned paws
Santie Claws

silvereyes · September 2016

/signed

GreenhaloX · September 2016

Yes.. blind bidding have to go! It is unfair and makes no beeping sense!! You don't know how much you really have to put down and when you do, how much gold have you wasted or how much did you win by. I have no problem putting down gold and if someone else outbids me, as long as I know by how much and if that guild is willing to put more gold than me into that trader's bid, I'd be ok with it, because I would know by how much more. I would go ecstatic in a bad way, (well, probably not cause it's still just a game and this is more of a ranting; although, if in real life, something is run like this, yeah, all bets are off then), if I learned that I have been wasting 500k or million more gold than I had to, from this blind bidding, which could well be the case. Urrrrggggghhhhhh!!!

CapnPhoton · September 2016

sirinsidiator wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

It's better to just step back and watch from a distance, Siri. Better for your health, better for your mood and there's a ton of other games that are managed by people who do know what they're doing and actually care for their customers even if they aren't Crown Store raiders.

I am already as far away as I can go without leaving the game completely. This is the only point that drives me mad as I don't see any way around it.

Delegate. Perhaps you can find a person who is trustworthy enough to at least alternate weeks with you after you show them what to do.

SantieClaws · September 2016

The difficulty we have is that we are an EU guild and anyone else who would be available to do the bidding in the place of Sid would also need to get up before the sun wakes.

Most of our human alts have jobs - not to mention families and very busy lives away from Tamriel.

The answer is not to put another in place of Sid in a poorly timed system. The answer is to fix the system.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

silvereyes · September 2016

The bidding system problems are bigger than "just" making EU guild officers wake up early, although that's certainly enough of a reason to reschedule in any case.

PC / NA has a similar problem. Our flip time is at 8 AM, but on the same day as maintenance, which often runs overtop the bid flip time, so it's even worse here in the sense that bids have to be entered not once, but twice. Here's a schedule of how this works for NA guilds bidding:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3281349/#Comment_3281349

Also, keep in mind that bid spies are a real thing. Only the most trusted officers are even candidates for trading off with, and as SantieClaws mentioned, most people can't or won't do it. That leaves the onus on the GM.

ElfFromSpace · September 2016

sirinsidiator wrote: »

You are right. I lost myself for a moment there. Guess I'll change it.

Whatever you said and later edited... it's ok. A lot of us just haven't been our normal selves. It's one thing to have stress in life that is caused by nature and things that nobody can control. Having stress increased by decisions that cannot help but appear deliberate just rubs salt in the wound. A lot of us have acted recently in ways that are outside of our norm because we've been driven to it.

Running a good guild is so much work, it would be nice to be able to focus on the fun, community building aspects rather than the roadblocks.

I feel for you, so much. I, too, have had to step away for the same reasons and it's HARD. I've spent over 2 YEARS building up a guild, devoting enough hours to it to be a second job every week, and I care about the members who counted on me and who supported me. Passing off that heap of stress to someone else is not a solution, it's only a matter of time before others also burn out. I feel bad for my replacements, and it's hard not to still worry about it because not caring at all would require I cut off the ties that keep me in the game. Those who say things like "It's just a game" are obviously not the sort of people who put their hearts into building the community. You can't walk away from that without someone to take your place, and few are willing to make the sacrifices required.

SantieClaws · September 2016

Khajiit would like to add that even if someone at ZOS doesn't feel able to comment publically on any future guild changes it would at least be nice to drop Sid a message and acknowledge you have heard him and that take on board what it is he has said.

There are so many who are committed to building and maintaining the community of Tamriel through guilds but they cannot be expected to sacrifice health, jobs or family for this.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

ArchMikem · September 2016

sirinsidiator wrote: »

... before I'll do something that I will probably regret later.

Dear ZOS,

Please change how the guild trader bid system works. The current form is impacting your players live and health in a negative way. I am officer in one of the oldest trading guilds on the EU server and since almost exactly one year ago I wake up at 4 am on a Tuesday every week to help make sure that our guild has a trader. Since a few weeks it is has started to impact my health and work as it messes up my sleep schedule

If you've allowed yourself to get to a point where a video game is directly affecting your physical health, the problem lies with you, not the game. Step back. Let go a little. If you care about getting a trader so badly there has to be SOMEONE else who is on a more flexible schedule that can take care of it for you. There are plenty of Night Owls in the world and I'm sure there's one or two in your guild.

P3ZZL3 · September 2016

Not sure how often this has been raised since initial beta and launch

Everyone hates the trader times.

However, you're also questioning the structure of the actual bidding system as well. This is where, as you know as a developer, benefit over time invested is the core equation. To be honest, with all the threads over the years on what should change to traders, none of it has ever happened - it's been cited many times that the core structure of guild traders and bidding is not changing.

I'd push and emphasize on getting the time changed. It is crazy tbh. Stick with one key point where, in real terms from the entire game mechanics, is the simplest to change, there might be a chance it could happen.

Just my 2 cents *shrugs*

Bonzodog01 · September 2016

Hrm....You know, on the XBox, the EU bids close at 1PM BST/12PM GMT. Is it really closing at 4AM BST currently?

See, US people are not put down for consideration on the EU servers, thus the bidding should be closing at midday EU time.

P3ZZL3 · September 2016

No, 12 midday would make no sense as a large proportion of people do actually work (normally day shifts).

So doing it say midnight, Sunday, would more than likely be best for most would be my very large assumption.
The problem then, is that you're assuming 12.00 midnight BST. This would mean 1.00am for those in Mainland Western Europe and later as you move into Central.

Then you have those crazy Aussies. Are they on EU or US or a combination of the 2?

If you wanted to be totally safe, on a time that would cover 99% of people, then a closing time of 12.00noon (Mid Day) on a Sunday would in essence be best for everyone

SantieClaws · September 2016

Khajiit agrees. A time at the weekend when most people can be home and be awake - or if they cannot then there is more chance of getting cover from other guildies - seems just far more sane all round.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Rosveen · September 2016

ArchMikem wrote: »

sirinsidiator wrote: »

... before I'll do something that I will probably regret later.

Dear ZOS,

Please change how the guild trader bid system works. The current form is impacting your players live and health in a negative way. I am officer in one of the oldest trading guilds on the EU server and since almost exactly one year ago I wake up at 4 am on a Tuesday every week to help make sure that our guild has a trader. Since a few weeks it is has started to impact my health and work as it messes up my sleep schedule

If you've allowed yourself to get to a point where a video game is directly affecting your physical health, the problem lies with you, not the game. Step back. Let go a little. If you care about getting a trader so badly there has to be SOMEONE else who is on a more flexible schedule that can take care of it for you. There are plenty of Night Owls in the world and I'm sure there's one or two in your guild.

There are, our GM has been logging in too and we're discussing other options on our forum right now. But it doesn't solve the real problem: someone always has to lose a night's sleep because of poor trader design. It's exhausting and unviable in the long term for anyone with a standard day job. I couldn't think of a worse switchover time if I tried.

nagarjunna · September 2016

Oceanic Guilds are 8 - 12 hours behind EST and a day ahead. So Sunday 9pm for EST time is Monday 1pm - 5pm for Oceanic guilds.

What that means in practice is that if the Guild trader bid was moved to Sunday nite USA time it would be Monday for the Oceanic Guilds - not a good result.

Saturday nite tho' would be a good result all round.

Malmai · September 2016

sirinsidiator wrote: »

... before I'll do something that I will probably regret later.

Dear ZOS,

Please change how the guild trader bid system works. The current form is impacting your players live and health in a negative way. I am officer in one of the oldest trading guilds on the EU server and since almost exactly one year ago I wake up at 4 am on a Tuesday every week to help make sure that our guild has a trader. Since a few weeks it is has started to impact my health and work as it messes up my sleep schedule (I wonder how I was able to endure for that long) and I also read about more and more players in the same situation. My personality does not allow me to just not be there at that time as I would feel like I let my guild down, so the only way I see is to make you change this part of the game.

I have been playing since beta and log in almost every day. I really love Tamriel and the community, but I am getting to a point where I will turn from a supportive fan to and angry fan. Before that happens, I would like to see a change to when the switchover happens (a reasonable time like Sunday evening would be good) or a complete replacement with some other system that does not require players to be around when the change happens in order to secure a trader. If you still think there is no need for action, I will post here again and again and put more effort behind it every time until there is some change.

One possible solution for a system that does not require player intervention is to simply allow guilds to buy a spot for some amount of gold and adjust the required amount the following week depending on how many guilds were there. For example it costs 100k initially and 5 guilds place themselve on a certain trader. The next week it costs 500k to get a spot there. Because of that only 1 guild can afford to reserve a spot and the week after the amount required goes down again to half of what it was + 100k for one guild. That way the whole system becomes a lot more predictable as you always get the spot you payed for and it also gives small guilds a chance to go to a main trading hub like Craglorn for a week.

Yours sincerly,
sirinsidiator

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert

Trading system is ROFL.