So i sub for a month, I lose a week of it in maintenance!!

tat2mano · September 2016

Nemoth wrote: »

tat2mano wrote: »

We* paid for that entitlement didnt we?
I decide when i want to play and lately it happens to many times that exactly that time when i want to play ZoS suddenly
(imo getting an announcement for upcoming downtime within 1-2 days is considered suddenly since i expect to get an anouncement of downtimes to be at least 3 days in front of the downtime since thats what the vast majority of MMO's are succeeding in atm) anounced a downtime.

And i dont care for that ToS or EULA crap,
its my money and i decide what to do with it,
if ZoS keeps this up then i dont spend one more cent on them.
And i truelly hope more will follow me so that ZoS maybe gets an oppifany and gets things straighten out,
otherwise i dont see a very bright future for this game,
and that would be a shame imo.

No, we paid for what we agreed to in ToS. You can throw your arms around and ignore that document like it has no value, but that doesn't suddenly make it irrelevant.

And I agree, it is your money. You would have made a 1000x better statement if you actually stopped paying ZOS any money than by spamming the forums. But the reality is, this is just all talk. In a weeks time, you won't even remember you couldn't play for few hours a couple of days in a row.

I know they own my account according to the ToS like it is with every other MMO,
and yes i know that in the end they can do all they want,
but that knife cuts both ways,
we as players can do also as we want.

I already paid for the 30 days so i cant stop "paying" them in this active sub,
but you can be assured that i will not get a new sub if i dont see any drastic changes in maintenance times and making decent anouncements about them in a convenient timeframe ahead.
And allthough its not the norm to do a weekly maintenance in MMO land i am willing to let that pass if they keep it under 16 hours total over 4 mondays,and there also can be 1 maybe 2 unscheduled downtimes of no longer then 2 hours in that same period of 4 mondays,
if they can do that then maybe i will sub again,
untill that time i just use the new account i am going to get as bank instead of paying every 30 days just for the use of a bag for my materials.

And rest assured,
i will personally remind you about this in a month or so

UrQuan · September 2016

OK, so the "week" (which is 168 hours) from your thread title becomes this:

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Thats 1/4 the total time i paid, already 4 days of maintenances a month and an extra 2-3 unexpected maintenances!!

and yes every one takes from half to a full day.

Which, assuming you're telling the truth about the number of maintenances and the amount of time they take (averaging them) would actually be 117 hours, which already isn't a full week, but isn't super far off. It is farther off from the "1/4 of the total time you paid" as you claim, as the time you paid is 30 days (720 hours), and 1/4 of that would be 180 hours.

And then of course that becomes:

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Its takes 6-12 hours of prime EU time, sorry for not waking up to play at 3 am just so I can the game while servers are still up!!

Which, again assuming you're telling the truth (although the truth that you're telling has changed from the truth we assumed you were telling before), actually adds up to 58.5 hours. Which of course is only about 1/12 of the time that you paid.

But again, evidently you still weren't being entirely honest, because based on what other posters have said, the maintenance was mostly done during the hours when the majority of people in Europe would be at work or school, which means that it wasn't done during EU prime time as you claimed.

So at this point I don't believe a word you say, and here's the important part: neither will ZOS CS.

When you have a complaint about something don't lie about what happened to make it seem like a bigger deal than it is. All that accomplishes is to get people to dismiss you as someone who makes things up. Instead what you need to do is stick to the actual facts (no exaggerating!) and explain how that has affected you, why you're upset, and what you see as a fair solution. That's by far the most effective way to get CS people to actually help you.

Source: Me - I spent nearly 10 years as a CS supervisor/manager.

Brrrofski · September 2016

Liptrot wrote: »

Nemoth wrote: »

Liptrot wrote: »

Yeah because everyone in Europe works a 9-5 job don't they

Look up the word majority in the dictionary.

So aslong as majority is alright doesn't matter about the rest?
I honestly get what your saying but what's prime time for some isn't prime time for others. People can't have a go at others who get upset when they can't play just because they don't have a 9-5 job

Prime time literally means when you can capture the biggest audience. Usually 5-10pm on weekdays on said time zone.

You don't have a personal prime time lol.

Jobs that aren't 9-5 are considered anti-social hours for that reason. If you have a job those hours, you're in the minority and usually won't be catered for.

Liptrot · September 2016

And what exactly do you expect? Them changing their maintenance window to start at 6pm and last till midnight, which is when probably like 90% of the playerbase actually plays, to appease to the few people who work shifts?

You can't please everyone, so logically the minority gets shafted. That just how it is, and not just in gaming industry, but everywhere.[/quote]

No I expect them to start it at midnight and have it during the night for Eu or at least early morning like NA have it, or is that to unreasonable too? If they started it at 5.00 like NA it would be finished for the majority of the day and all evening for prime time. It's annoying when you pay for something you can't use.

Graydon · September 2016

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

I think some of these posters are mmorpg newbies. They just don't understand.

I think these whining posters have an out of control addiction to ESO.

Funny and sad to see that their life revolves around the game. Should be the other way around.

Not just talking the OP, but the screaming and threats regarding downtime.

Brrrofski · September 2016

No I expect them to start it at midnight and have it during the night for Eu or at least early morning like NA have it, or is that to unreasonable too? If they started it at 5.00 like NA it would be finished for the majority of the day and all evening for prime time. It's annoying when you pay for something you can't use.

Problem is, sometimes they take us and eu down together. 5am gmt is like 9pm in the West coast of the US.

There is always going to be someone out of luck. It's the aussies I feel bad for - they always get screwed.

LordBlackrobe · September 2016

Nemoth wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Nemoth wrote: »

tat2mano wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Thats 1/4 the total time i paid, already 4 days of maintenances a month and an extra 2-3 unexpected maintenances!!

and yes every one takes from half to a full day.

Some kind of compensation is a must, otherwise im not paying another penny on this game

I totally agree,thats why i made this poll a while back,
i suggest you go and put a vote down there.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/285046/24-hours-of-eso-refund-when-downtimes-exceed-24-hours-in-30-days#latest

I understand you need to promote your failure of a poll in every thread, but could you dial it down a bit? It's getting annoying and the poll clearly shows that most people don't agree with you.

Also, I don't see the maintenances taking 12-24 hours, so I don't know what this "half to full day" nonsense is supposed to mean. If you don't like that there are server downtimes and unexpected maintenances I'd suggest you to calm down, read the ToS and EULA that you agreed to when you started playing this game and then go do something else. I understand that unless you get your 8h+ a day of ESO everyday your life is in shambles, but try to diversify your hobbies a little bit.

Its takes 6-12 hours of prime EU time, sorry for not waking up to play at 3 am just so I can the game while servers are still up!!

Seriously I cant beleive the people defending ZOS, you will litrally defend anything they do and thats why you will always keep getting *** service cause you encourage them to remain as bad as they are

Since when is morning and early afternoon prime time for EU? Do you even live in EU? Yesterday's downtime was from 8 am to like 2-3 pm afaik. Hardly a prime time when majority of the people are at work anyway. Today was from 7 am to 1 pm. Nowhere near prime time either.

Prime time doesn't mean "whenever I want to play", prime time is when most people actually play. I'll bet you anything you want that morning and early afternoon are absolutely not a prime time in any sense of the word.

maintanance is always like 11am to 8pm EU time, Prime time should start around 3pm when people come from school?

So they indeed are in maintanace during prime time

tat2mano · September 2016

Graydon wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

I think some of these posters are mmorpg newbies. They just don't understand.

I think these whining posters have an out of control addiction to ESO.

Funny and sad to see that their life revolves around the game. Should be the other way around.

Not just talking the OP, but the screaming and threats regarding downtime.

screaming?threads?

I mostly see people that are letting ZoS know that most of them are done paying for sub if these downtimes continue.

Nemoth · September 2016

tat2mano wrote: »

screaming?threads?

I mostly see people that are letting ZoS know that most of them are done paying for sub if these downtimes continue.

Really? Because to me, most of the threads are filled with people demanding compensation for couple of hours of server downtime while also being extremely aggressive when someone disagrees with them.

There is a difference between saying "*** you ZOS, give me compensation because I couldn't spend my day playing ESO or I'll unsub" and saying "I'm not happy with the amount of downtime and if it doesn't improve I'll unsub".

Maybe, just maybe, if people were civil about it, these threads would actually gain some traction. Instead, they are full of people trying to coerce free stuff from ZOS because they life has been forever altered by the unavailability of the servers.

cjthibs · September 2016

My only question here is this:

What do you think they're actually doing during these unscheduled maintenances, just sitting around laughing about how they're really sticking it to the subscribers?

The total of time lost is less than 24 hours if I had to guess (Out of between 720 and 744 on normal months), which at most would be about 3.2% time lost.

A subscription costs around $15.
3.2% of $15 is $0.48. (Or 42 Euro cents.)

48 CENTS. Just think about that for a moment. What they would actually owe you for a full 24 hours of downtime would only be about $0.48. That's right, not even Two Quarters.

Are you really going to throw such a fit for the loss of less than 50 cents worth of service?

NeillMcAttack · September 2016

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

"ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify a Service at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services".

"ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or all geographic locations, at any given time, or that ZeniMax will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time".

"You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, UGC, Game Mods and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion."

Taken from the Terms of Service(ToS), which you are supposed(!!) to read before you download/buy a game. I agree that it's not a very customer-friendly way but legally, ZoS is doing nothing wrong. It sucks, yes. Yes, we can whine. But in the end; We did agree to it.

Could you imagine if ZOS lost some players entire character data and couldn't get it back??? I bet everyone would say, "oh well, you agreed to the terms of service didn't you.......!?"

Chew_Magna · September 2016

This is like buying a car and then demanding to have your money back for the time it's in the shop for an oil change or a tire rotation.

Graydon · September 2016

tat2mano wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

I think some of these posters are mmorpg newbies. They just don't understand.

I think these whining posters have an out of control addiction to ESO.

Funny and sad to see that their life revolves around the game. Should be the other way around.

Not just talking the OP, but the screaming and threats regarding downtime.

screaming?threads?

I mostly see people that are letting ZoS know that most of them are done paying for sub if these downtimes continue.

It's clear you haven't been on the forums lately or have reading comprehension issues.

If the server downtime is so tragic and catrasophic to their well being.
If the demands for the 48 cent compensation are ignored, just cancel your subscription.
If this creates the great mass exodus of subscription myth that you threaten, ZOS will know why.

The tantrums though entertaining are counter productive and immature.

Orlacc · September 2016

Wow this is original! Where is INTERNET LAWYER MAN?

tat2mano · September 2016

Chew_Magna wrote: »

This is like buying a car and then demanding to have your money back for the time it's in the shop for an oil change or a tire rotation.

Depends on how long it would take,if it would vastly exceed the average normal time needed for such a "car maintenance" then imo some sort of compensation would be well in place,
at least if the company likes customers to come back and tell them friends and family what a good service this company provides.

edit:(p.s. i have seen exactly this comment used several times before,even by a support employee in a ticket,makes me start some of these forum accounts are........)

idk · September 2016

azura_star wrote: »

If they don't do maintenance, you won't be playing the game at all. And then your subscription really will be a waste of money.

Every online game does maintenance; it's a fact of gaming. Add to the fact that ESO has a large player base and is churning out new content at a very rapid rate, and I don't understand why anyone is surprised still by how much maintenance there is.

This is correct. Maintenance is required for MMOs and Zos does what needs to be done. Sometimes it takes longer than desired. In the end it takes as long as it takes.

To complain about this aspect doesn't seem logical.

tat2mano · September 2016

Graydon wrote: »

tat2mano wrote: »

Graydon wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

I think some of these posters are mmorpg newbies. They just don't understand.

I think these whining posters have an out of control addiction to ESO.

Funny and sad to see that their life revolves around the game. Should be the other way around.

Not just talking the OP, but the screaming and threats regarding downtime.

screaming?threads?

I mostly see people that are letting ZoS know that most of them are done paying for sub if these downtimes continue.

It's clear you haven't been on the forums lately or have reading comprehension issues.

If the server downtime is so tragic and catrasophic to their well being.
If the demands for the 48 cent compensation are ignored, just cancel your subscription.
If this creates the great mass exodus of subscription myth that you threaten, ZOS will know why.

The tantrums though entertaining are counter productive and immature.

In fact i have been regular on the forum lately,and then i mean last 3 months aprox,
but thats irrelevent because the discussion in that comment is about behaviour or comments from people in this post,
not other posts.

And about compensation,i see those 40 cents arguments all the time out here,
i can only speak for myself now,but i dont want money back as compensation,
i want eso+ time back when downtimes exceed the norm.

As can be seen in a poll i made a while back :

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/285046/24-hours-of-eso-refund-when-downtimes-exceed-24-hours-in-30-days#latest

tat2mano · September 2016

Orlacc wrote: »

Wow this is original! Where is INTERNET LAWYER MAN?

Ironic

tat2mano · September 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

azura_star wrote: »

If they don't do maintenance, you won't be playing the game at all. And then your subscription really will be a waste of money.

Every online game does maintenance; it's a fact of gaming. Add to the fact that ESO has a large player base and is churning out new content at a very rapid rate, and I don't understand why anyone is surprised still by how much maintenance there is.

This is correct. Maintenance is required for MMOs and Zos does what needs to be done. Sometimes it takes longer than desired. In the end it takes as long as it takes.

To complain about this aspect doesn't seem logical.

The places where these people spend theyr money must be really happy to have these "easy to please" people as customers.

Chew_Magna · September 2016

tat2mano wrote: »

edit:(p.s. i have seen exactly this comment used several times before,even by a support employee in a ticket,makes me start some of these forum accounts are........)

You sir, just made my day

I've been called a lot of things but never a part of a game development team!

Good god I wish I was though... I'd give them a piece of my mind on the bugs in the game...

Drakoleon · September 2016

tat2mano wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

azura_star wrote: »

If they don't do maintenance, you won't be playing the game at all. And then your subscription really will be a waste of money.

Every online game does maintenance; it's a fact of gaming. Add to the fact that ESO has a large player base and is churning out new content at a very rapid rate, and I don't understand why anyone is surprised still by how much maintenance there is.

This is correct. Maintenance is required for MMOs and Zos does what needs to be done. Sometimes it takes longer than desired. In the end it takes as long as it takes.

To complain about this aspect doesn't seem logical.

The places where these people spend theyr money must be really happy to have these "easy to please" people as customers.

Well.... don't even bother replying to fanboys cause are just....kids. They have no respect for the money spend cause they've never worked to earn them. Gaming industry flourishing just because of them!
I see comments like "I pay eso+ to support the game" or " i pay a mount 4k crowns to support....etc etc. Zeni claims 7+Mil game sales! plus eso+, crown store sales etc etc.....Do simple maths fanboys and keep paying.... crap for real money!

Zeni should at least, had the decency to compensate eso+ customers due to excessive maintenance hours. All MMOs do that when maintenance/patch exceeds their standard timetables usually 2-4h and NEVER midday hours.

Daemons_Bane · September 2016

Drakoleon wrote: »

tat2mano wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

azura_star wrote: »

If they don't do maintenance, you won't be playing the game at all. And then your subscription really will be a waste of money.

Every online game does maintenance; it's a fact of gaming. Add to the fact that ESO has a large player base and is churning out new content at a very rapid rate, and I don't understand why anyone is surprised still by how much maintenance there is.

This is correct. Maintenance is required for MMOs and Zos does what needs to be done. Sometimes it takes longer than desired. In the end it takes as long as it takes.

To complain about this aspect doesn't seem logical.

The places where these people spend theyr money must be really happy to have these "easy to please" people as customers.

Well.... don't even bother replying to fanboys cause are just....kids. They have no respect for the money spend cause they've never worked to earn them. Gaming industry flourishing just because of them!
I see comments like "I pay eso+ to support the game" or " i pay a mount 4k crowns to support....etc etc. Zeni claims 7+Mil game sales! plus eso+, crown store sales etc etc.....Do simple maths fanboys and keep paying.... crap for real money!

Zeni should at least, had the decency to compensate eso+ customers due to excessive maintenance hours. All MMOs do that when maintenance/patch exceeds their standard timetables usually 2-4h and NEVER midday hours.

Way to assume stuff about other people.. I'm one of the people you call "fan boi" since that is apparently as far as you can go in your creativity.. I spend 8-10 hours a day in a garage fixing trucks to pay for my game and the stuff that I want to get in it.. Just because some of us know how to step back and be calm and take a different approach, and have actually read/accepted the EULA, does not make us bad people

bowmanz607 · September 2016

you should be aware of this before subbing. I believe it is even in the terms. You are paying the ability to play the game over a 30 day period. You are not paying to play the game for a full 30 days. that is just your window of time to play when the server is up.

tat2mano · September 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

you should be aware of this before subbing. I believe it is even in the terms. You are paying the ability to play the game over a 30 day period. You are not paying to play the game for a full 30 days. that is just your window of time to play when the server is up.

As ZoS should be aware that even tho it is in the ToS that people cant really "complain" since they agreed with it,
people can take the conclusion that this is the game in MMO land that vastly is #1 when it comes to downtimes and that its not worth to sub untill things change drasticly.

ThePaleItalian · September 2016

Wonder how much of this would be nonexistent if it was a sub based game?

Unsent.Soul · September 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

OK, so the "week" (which is 168 hours) from your thread title becomes this:

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Thats 1/4 the total time i paid, already 4 days of maintenances a month and an extra 2-3 unexpected maintenances!!

and yes every one takes from half to a full day.

Which, assuming you're telling the truth about the number of maintenances and the amount of time they take (averaging them) would actually be 117 hours, which already isn't a full week, but isn't super far off. It is farther off from the "1/4 of the total time you paid" as you claim, as the time you paid is 30 days (720 hours), and 1/4 of that would be 180 hours.

And then of course that becomes:

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Its takes 6-12 hours of prime EU time, sorry for not waking up to play at 3 am just so I can the game while servers are still up!!

Which, again assuming you're telling the truth (although the truth that you're telling has changed from the truth we assumed you were telling before), actually adds up to 58.5 hours. Which of course is only about 1/12 of the time that you paid.

But again, evidently you still weren't being entirely honest, because based on what other posters have said, the maintenance was mostly done during the hours when the majority of people in Europe would be at work or school, which means that it wasn't done during EU prime time as you claimed.

So at this point I don't believe a word you say, and here's the important part: neither will ZOS CS.

When you have a complaint about something don't lie about what happened to make it seem like a bigger deal than it is. All that accomplishes is to get people to dismiss you as someone who makes things up. Instead what you need to do is stick to the actual facts (no exaggerating!) and explain how that has affected you, why you're upset, and what you see as a fair solution. That's by far the most effective way to get CS people to actually help you.

Source: Me - I spent nearly 10 years as a CS supervisor/manager.

Rekt!

danno8 · September 2016

And if they did refund you your $2.00, would that put an end to these threads? Would that ease your frustration or make you happy that you can not play?

No.

QuebraRegra · September 2016

it's a fair question...

They should xtend the sub time for the full outage duration

Flak · September 2016

And you lose another week crying on the forums.
Now, I totally agree that maintenance sucks but weeks like this one have been an exception and don't really see why people make such a drama about it. We have other problems.

QuebraRegra · September 2016

Flak wrote: »

We have other problems.

NONE of which are being dealt with.