Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
So i sub for a month, I lose a week of it in maintenance!!
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tat2mano✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »Thats 1/4 the total time i paid, already 4 days of maintenances a month and an extra 2-3 unexpected maintenances!!
and yes every one takes from half to a full day.
Some kind of compensation is a must, otherwise im not paying another penny on this game
I totally agree,thats why i made this poll a while back,
i suggest you go and put a vote down there.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/285046/24-hours-of-eso-refund-when-downtimes-exceed-24-hours-in-30-days#latest
I understand you need to promote your failure of a poll in every thread, but could you dial it down a bit? It's getting annoying and the poll clearly shows that most people don't agree with you.
Also, I don't see the maintenances taking 12-24 hours, so I don't know what this "half to full day" nonsense is supposed to mean. If you don't like that there are server downtimes and unexpected maintenances I'd suggest you to calm down, read the ToS and EULA that you agreed to when you started playing this game and then go do something else. I understand that unless you get your 8h+ a day of ESO everyday your life is in shambles, but try to diversify your hobbies a little bit.
Its takes 6-12 hours of prime EU time, sorry for not waking up to play at 3 am just so I can the game while servers are still up!!
Seriously I cant beleive the people defending ZOS, you will litrally defend anything they do and thats why you will always keep getting *** service cause you encourage them to remain as bad as they are
Since when is morning and early afternoon prime time for EU? Do you even live in EU? Yesterday's downtime was from 8 am to like 2-3 pm afaik. Hardly a prime time when majority of the people are at work anyway. Today was from 7 am to 1 pm. Nowhere near prime time either.
Prime time doesn't mean "whenever I want to play", prime time is when most people actually play. I'll bet you anything you want that morning and early afternoon are absolutely not a prime time in any sense of the word.
Maybe it wasnt "primetime" today but it would v been much more convenient if it would been done in the middle of the night,
after all it was only the EU server and not the NA and EU like when there is the normal scheduled maintenance,
imo that shows even more how low theyr respect is for gamers outside of that Great Murika...1 -
tat2mano✭✭✭✭mitchtheelder wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »Thats 1/4 the total time i paid, already 4 days of maintenances a month and an extra 2-3 unexpected maintenances!!
and yes every one takes from half to a full day.
Some kind of compensation is a must, otherwise im not paying another penny on this game
Speak like this and tou will lose the rest lol they will perma ban you lol
Permaban from forum not from game.0 -
Sigma957✭✭✭✭✭I sub and have been since the beginning and maybe play 4 hours a day if i am lucky should i get compensated for the other 20 hours i don't play **rollseyes** besides we all agreed to the terms and conditions so no there will not be any compensation for maintenance.2 -
tat2mano✭✭✭✭I sub and have been since the beginning and maybe play 4 hours a day if i am lucky should i get compensated for the other 20 hours i don't play **rollseyes** besides we all agreed to the terms and conditions so no there will not be any compensation for maintenance.
Thats why we cant have nice things............1 -
Humatiel✭✭✭✭Raging and bluster aside a lot of your point is just hyped up. ZoS for instance could very easily justify working under the assumption of the national average internet speed (6 Mbps). As an outlier that isn't there fault. Similarly the planned updates are virtually always done by the time I am home from work, just leave your launcher open and it will update automatically as soon as the patch hits.VMA | vHRC-HM | vAA-HM | vSO-HM | vMOL-HM
700+ CP
GM of Luxury Raids0 -
clayandaudrey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭It sucks but here is what you agreed to in the terms of service...
ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or all geographic locations, at any given time, or that ZeniMax will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content and Game Mods, for any reason.
ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify a Service at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services. ZeniMax makes no guarantees about the persistence or availability of any user names or other personas at any time and assumes no liability for lost or deleted Account data. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, UGC, Game Mods and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion.
Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax may restrict, suspend, or terminate Your access to some or any Services at any time.Edited by clayandaudrey_ESO on September 8, 2016 12:35PM1 -
tat2mano✭✭✭✭Raging and bluster aside a lot of your point is just hyped up. ZoS for instance could very easily justify working under the assumption of the national average internet speed (6 Mbps). As an outlier that isn't there fault. Similarly the planned updates are virtually always done by the time I am home from work, just leave your launcher open and it will update automatically as soon as the patch hits.clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »It sucks but here is what you agreed to in the terms of service...
ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or all geographic locations, at any given time, or that ZeniMax will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content and Game Mods, for any reason.
ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify a Service at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services. ZeniMax makes no guarantees about the persistence or availability of any user names or other personas at any time and assumes no liability for lost or deleted Account data. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, UGC, Game Mods and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion.
Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax may restrict, suspend, or terminate Your access to some or any Services at any time.
And again i say "Thats why we cant have nice things"0 -
clayandaudrey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Raging and bluster aside a lot of your point is just hyped up. ZoS for instance could very easily justify working under the assumption of the national average internet speed (6 Mbps). As an outlier that isn't there fault. Similarly the planned updates are virtually always done by the time I am home from work, just leave your launcher open and it will update automatically as soon as the patch hits.clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »It sucks but here is what you agreed to in the terms of service...
ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or all geographic locations, at any given time, or that ZeniMax will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content and Game Mods, for any reason.
ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify a Service at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services. ZeniMax makes no guarantees about the persistence or availability of any user names or other personas at any time and assumes no liability for lost or deleted Account data. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, UGC, Game Mods and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion.
Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax may restrict, suspend, or terminate Your access to some or any Services at any time.
And again i say "Thats why we cant have nice things"
Of course it is why. The deck is always stacked against the players.0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Solution....you and everyone else stop subbing.
ZOS might change but if you only post in the forums and create tickets.....nothing changes.
This game literally should not have a sub on any platform after Tamriel Unlimited.
They should offer season passes, seperate DLC and DLC packs or bundles.
See, the model is proving unsustainable and they still bull-headed trying to make this subscription work.
There are better ways to fund a game and a subscription is definately not the best as any monthly payment for ongoing services will result in frustration when there are required outage periods that typically are outside of the companies controlls which occur frequently.
It's why so many ppl swap ISP's, phone, TV, etc services.
But yeah I know and see all those saying I don't know what I'm talking about......check out the reality tho.
Every week there's a few posts like thisEdited by NewBlacksmurf on September 8, 2016 12:56PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5011 -
tat2mano✭✭✭✭clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »Raging and bluster aside a lot of your point is just hyped up. ZoS for instance could very easily justify working under the assumption of the national average internet speed (6 Mbps). As an outlier that isn't there fault. Similarly the planned updates are virtually always done by the time I am home from work, just leave your launcher open and it will update automatically as soon as the patch hits.clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »It sucks but here is what you agreed to in the terms of service...
ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or all geographic locations, at any given time, or that ZeniMax will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax reserves the right to change and update Content without notice to You. ZeniMax also reserves the right to refuse Your request(s) to acquire Content, and to limit or block any request to acquire Content, including, but not limited to, Downloadable Content and Game Mods, for any reason.
ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify a Service at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services. ZeniMax makes no guarantees about the persistence or availability of any user names or other personas at any time and assumes no liability for lost or deleted Account data. Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, UGC, Game Mods and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion.
Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax may restrict, suspend, or terminate Your access to some or any Services at any time.
And again i say "Thats why we cant have nice things"
Of course it is why. The deck is always stacked against the players.
And without players that wouldnt be a server to begin with.0 -
Nemoth✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »Thats 1/4 the total time i paid, already 4 days of maintenances a month and an extra 2-3 unexpected maintenances!!
and yes every one takes from half to a full day.
Some kind of compensation is a must, otherwise im not paying another penny on this game
I totally agree,thats why i made this poll a while back,
i suggest you go and put a vote down there.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/285046/24-hours-of-eso-refund-when-downtimes-exceed-24-hours-in-30-days#latest
I understand you need to promote your failure of a poll in every thread, but could you dial it down a bit? It's getting annoying and the poll clearly shows that most people don't agree with you.
Also, I don't see the maintenances taking 12-24 hours, so I don't know what this "half to full day" nonsense is supposed to mean. If you don't like that there are server downtimes and unexpected maintenances I'd suggest you to calm down, read the ToS and EULA that you agreed to when you started playing this game and then go do something else. I understand that unless you get your 8h+ a day of ESO everyday your life is in shambles, but try to diversify your hobbies a little bit.
There comes the common throw to the EULA again..."its getting annoying"...
My poll a faillure?wasnt aware that its a "contest"..
In fact the votes that agreed with my statement have only risen after the first hour,
you are aware there are many white knight fanboys active on the forum,
more then the average eso player so the result is of that poll isn that a big of surprise...
And why should i dial it down as long as i dont break any forum rules,i dont post it in "every thread" i just post it when i see it can be relevant to some comment or post.
And my life being in shambles just because i cant "feed my horse" and do my daily writs and mostly try silver/gold on main char,cause thats mostly all i do lately,
if my life would in shambles cause of that i really would have some issues,
luckily that isnt the case i can inform you
And allthough "half to full day" isnt my statement i have to say the norm is getting very close to that.
I have plenty of other stuff to do and i also practice them well then enough,
but thats not relevant,what is relevant is that i pay for a product and that that product is lacking in its productivity imo,
and enogh to stop subbing untill ZoS shows me they can keep the server running with downtimes below 16 hours during a 30 day period.
Yes my personal demands for keeping me as sub got up lately since the downtimes only got worse instead of less.
So, let me get this straight. You only log in to do your silver/gold on 1 character and do writs. So you barely even play the game. Yet you DEMAND compensation for all the hours you can't play the game, because for some reason you expect the game to be available 24/7.
If this doesn't scream entitlement, than I don't know what does.7 -
elvenmad✭✭✭✭✭Lieblingsjunge wrote: »
Taken from the Terms of Service(ToS), which you are supposed(!!) to read before you download/buy a game. I agree that it's not a very customer-friendly way but legally, ZoS is doing nothing wrong. It sucks, yes. Yes, we can whine. But in the end; We did agree to it.
Actually the Terms of service mean nothing, as Sony entertainment found out a number of years ago when they mentioned their games ToS in a lawsuit in the states, the court laughed and threw them out, The ToS are only basically a 'verbal' agreement between yourself and the company, nothing else, there is nothing legal or involving any laws in them.
The ONLY thing in this game and in every other MMO that is legally covered by any laws is any monetary transactions, THAT is all. thats just basic consumer rights.
With online games we enter a 'grey' area (same as the gambling laws concerning RNG cash shop chests) you are actually paying for a service and enter into a contract with ZoS for such service and you should receive this service, if they don't provide the service as agreed and without valid explanation they are at fault.
< PC - EU >5 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lieblingsjunge wrote: »"ZeniMax may patch, update, or modify a Service at any time with or without notice to You. Notwithstanding the foregoing, ZeniMax has no obligation to make available any patches, updates or modifications or correct any errors or defects in the Services".
"ZeniMax does not guarantee that any Services will be available at all times, in all countries and/or all geographic locations, at any given time, or that ZeniMax will continue to offer any particular Services for any particular length of time".
"You agree that ZeniMax will not be liable for any interruption of the Services, delay or failure to perform, any loss of Content (including, but not limited to, UGC, Game Mods and Downloadable Content), and/or Account data (including, but not limited to, Character data) resulting from any causes whatsoever. ZeniMax reserves the right to offer new Services, change and/or discontinue certain Services at any time in its sole discretion."
Taken from the Terms of Service(ToS), which you are supposed(!!) to read before you download/buy a game. I agree that it's not a very customer-friendly way but legally, ZoS is doing nothing wrong. It sucks, yes. Yes, we can whine. But in the end; We did agree to it.
According to that they could just switch off the servers forever and keep our money - would you be as sanguine then?
No-one is saying they are legally liable but business graveyard is full of firms that may not have been legally liable for their abysmal service and still went under as their customers left.
On the other hand successful business often realises that it must go slightly beyond the minimum to stay in business and make money - in the gaming world EA's releasing the updated/improved DLC for ME3's angry player base is a good example of a company that had no legal obligation to do anything but realised that have several milli0on players unwilling to buy another iteration of one of their biggest games was not sensible.
Planned weekly maintenance is fair and expected but lately there have been more and more unplanned maintenance windows and logon downtimes that have extended for many hours with little or no communication.
ZOS have no legal obligation to do anything but they could sure build back some that lost good will by doing something for the subscribers to acknowledge the less than stable nature of the game right now.4 -
tat2mano✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »Thats 1/4 the total time i paid, already 4 days of maintenances a month and an extra 2-3 unexpected maintenances!!
and yes every one takes from half to a full day.
Some kind of compensation is a must, otherwise im not paying another penny on this game
I totally agree,thats why i made this poll a while back,
i suggest you go and put a vote down there.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/285046/24-hours-of-eso-refund-when-downtimes-exceed-24-hours-in-30-days#latest
I understand you need to promote your failure of a poll in every thread, but could you dial it down a bit? It's getting annoying and the poll clearly shows that most people don't agree with you.
Also, I don't see the maintenances taking 12-24 hours, so I don't know what this "half to full day" nonsense is supposed to mean. If you don't like that there are server downtimes and unexpected maintenances I'd suggest you to calm down, read the ToS and EULA that you agreed to when you started playing this game and then go do something else. I understand that unless you get your 8h+ a day of ESO everyday your life is in shambles, but try to diversify your hobbies a little bit.
There comes the common throw to the EULA again..."its getting annoying"...
My poll a faillure?wasnt aware that its a "contest"..
In fact the votes that agreed with my statement have only risen after the first hour,
you are aware there are many white knight fanboys active on the forum,
more then the average eso player so the result is of that poll isn that a big of surprise...
And why should i dial it down as long as i dont break any forum rules,i dont post it in "every thread" i just post it when i see it can be relevant to some comment or post.
And my life being in shambles just because i cant "feed my horse" and do my daily writs and mostly try silver/gold on main char,cause thats mostly all i do lately,
if my life would in shambles cause of that i really would have some issues,
luckily that isnt the case i can inform you
And allthough "half to full day" isnt my statement i have to say the norm is getting very close to that.
I have plenty of other stuff to do and i also practice them well then enough,
but thats not relevant,what is relevant is that i pay for a product and that that product is lacking in its productivity imo,
and enogh to stop subbing untill ZoS shows me they can keep the server running with downtimes below 16 hours during a 30 day period.
Yes my personal demands for keeping me as sub got up lately since the downtimes only got worse instead of less.
So, let me get this straight. You only log in to do your silver/gold on 1 character and do writs. So you barely even play the game. Yet you DEMAND compensation for all the hours you can't play the game, because for some reason you expect the game to be available 24/7.
If this doesn't scream entitlement, than I don't know what does.
We* paid for that entitlement didnt we?
I decide when i want to play and lately it happens to many times that exactly that time when i want to play ZoS suddenly
(imo getting an announcement for upcoming downtime within 1-2 days is considered suddenly since i expect to get an anouncement of downtimes to be at least 3 days in front of the downtime since thats what the vast majority of MMO's are succeeding in atm) anounced a downtime.
And i dont care for that ToS or EULA crap,
its my money and i decide what to do with it,
if ZoS keeps this up then i dont spend one more cent on them.
And i truelly hope more will follow me so that ZoS maybe gets an oppifany and gets things straighten out,
otherwise i dont see a very bright future for this game,
and that would be a shame imo.0 -
Nemoth✭✭Lieblingsjunge wrote: »
Taken from the Terms of Service(ToS), which you are supposed(!!) to read before you download/buy a game. I agree that it's not a very customer-friendly way but legally, ZoS is doing nothing wrong. It sucks, yes. Yes, we can whine. But in the end; We did agree to it.
Actually the Terms of service mean nothing, as Sony entertainment found out a number of years ago when they mentioned their games ToS in a lawsuit in the states, the court laughed and threw them out, The ToS are only basically a 'verbal' agreement between yourself and the company, nothing else, there is nothing legal or involving any laws in them.
The ONLY thing in this game and in every other MMO that is legally covered by any laws is any monetary transactions, THAT is all. thats just basic consumer rights.
With online games we enter a 'grey' area (same as the gambling laws concerning RNG cash shop chests) you are actually paying for a service and enter into a contract with ZoS for such service and you should receive this service, if they don't provide the service as agreed and without valid explanation they are at fault.
ToS means nothing only if it breaks some law. Just like a regular contract means nothing if it breaks any law. If the ToS contains parts that are illegal then yes, it will get thrown out. But here we are talking about a private services and their availability, to which you agreed to.
Tell me, how often do you see game companies get sued for taking their servers offline after they stop supporting the game? How often do you see law suits over servers being offline for extended period of time?
You just show that you have no idea what you're talking about.
EDIT: Just to point another thing, verbal agreements are legally binding as well, as long as they are not breaking any laws. Maybe next time do some research before posting such nonsense.Edited by Nemoth on September 8, 2016 3:28PM5 -
elvenmad✭✭✭✭✭Lieblingsjunge wrote: »
Taken from the Terms of Service(ToS), which you are supposed(!!) to read before you download/buy a game. I agree that it's not a very customer-friendly way but legally, ZoS is doing nothing wrong. It sucks, yes. Yes, we can whine. But in the end; We did agree to it.
Actually the Terms of service mean nothing, as Sony entertainment found out a number of years ago when they mentioned their games ToS in a lawsuit in the states, the court laughed and threw them out, The ToS are only basically a 'verbal' agreement between yourself and the company, nothing else, there is nothing legal or involving any laws in them.
The ONLY thing in this game and in every other MMO that is legally covered by any laws is any monetary transactions, THAT is all. thats just basic consumer rights.
With online games we enter a 'grey' area (same as the gambling laws concerning RNG cash shop chests) you are actually paying for a service and enter into a contract with ZoS for such service and you should receive this service, if they don't provide the service as agreed and without valid explanation they are at fault.
ToS means nothing only if it breaks some law. Just like a regular contract means nothing if it breaks any law. If the ToS contains parts that are illegal then yes, it will get thrown out. But here we are talking about a private services and their availability, to which you agreed to.
Tell me, how often do you see game companies get suit for taking their servers offline after they stop supporting the game? How often do you see law suits over servers being offline for extended period of time?
You just show that you have no idea what you're talking about.
EDIT: Just to point another thing, verbal agreements are legally binding as well, as long as they are not breaking any laws. Maybe next time do some research before posting such nonsense.
What you have got to remember and what alot of players dont even realise, in every MMO, B2P, PTW, FTP all of them you are paying for NOTHING, you NEVER own anything, nothing is ever 'yours', you could spend millions in the cash shop and have multiple accounts but NEVER actually own anything. So how can you even mention laws concerning something that is not even yours and never was.
ALL you pay for is access to a service, the amount of access they are legally obliged to provide is a 'grey' area, but morally it should be available most of the time unless pre warned of downtime, after all that is what you are paying for.
What most people have issues with and understandably is the complete lack of PR from ZoS.
Edited by elvenmad on September 8, 2016 1:28PM< PC - EU >2 -
Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They dont do the compensation beacuse they must, they should do the compensation to show respect for their customers.
Unsatisfied customer=no more money, whetever compensation they give, they will make up for it and more later
So in the end its in their interest if you look at it from a business precpective.Edited by Bigevilpeter on September 8, 2016 1:25PM3 -
elvenmad✭✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »They dont do the compensation beacuse they must, they should do the compensation to show respect for their customers.
Unsatisfied customer=no more money, whetever compensation they give, they will make up for it and more later
So in the end its in their interest if you look at it from a business precpective.
I agree, and the thing is whatever they could do to improve customer satisfaction would not cost them a dime, Pixels are FREE< PC - EU >0 -
Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lieblingsjunge wrote: »
Taken from the Terms of Service(ToS), which you are supposed(!!) to read before you download/buy a game. I agree that it's not a very customer-friendly way but legally, ZoS is doing nothing wrong. It sucks, yes. Yes, we can whine. But in the end; We did agree to it.
Actually the Terms of service mean nothing, as Sony entertainment found out a number of years ago when they mentioned their games ToS in a lawsuit in the states, the court laughed and threw them out, The ToS are only basically a 'verbal' agreement between yourself and the company, nothing else, there is nothing legal or involving any laws in them.
The ONLY thing in this game and in every other MMO that is legally covered by any laws is any monetary transactions, THAT is all. thats just basic consumer rights.
With online games we enter a 'grey' area (same as the gambling laws concerning RNG cash shop chests) you are actually paying for a service and enter into a contract with ZoS for such service and you should receive this service, if they don't provide the service as agreed and without valid explanation they are at fault.
ToS means nothing only if it breaks some law. Just like a regular contract means nothing if it breaks any law. If the ToS contains parts that are illegal then yes, it will get thrown out. But here we are talking about a private services and their availability, to which you agreed to.
Tell me, how often do you see game companies get suit for taking their servers offline after they stop supporting the game? How often do you see law suits over servers being offline for extended period of time?
You just show that you have no idea what you're talking about.
EDIT: Just to point another thing, verbal agreements are legally binding as well, as long as they are not breaking any laws. Maybe next time do some research before posting such nonsense.
What you have got to remember and what alot of players dont even realise, in every MMO, B2P, PTW, FTP all of them you are paying for NOTHING, you NEVER own anything, nothing is ever 'yours', you could spend millions in the cash shop and have multiple accounts but NEVER actually own anything. So how can you even mention laws concerning something that is not even yours and never was.
ALL you pay for is access to a service, the amount of access they are legally obliged to provide is a 'grey' area, but morally it should be available most of the time unless pre warned of downtime, after all that is what you are paying for.
What most people have issues with and understandably is the complete lack of PR from ZoS.
Actually there is still a lot of room for new law to be made in the area of online services and some countries are already seeing it in different ways - such as some nations where legal action has been taken around in game items and so on. Generally law lags behind technology so this stuff is going to change fast and a TOS written for a global game may not be valid under some local laws, or it may be valid today but not tomorrow if laws change.
This stuff is going to be interesting to watch and see whether companies can manage to defend the approach that they are not liable for the behaviour of their products or whether consumers will push governments to see electronic products just like any other and companies who fail to deliver will actually become liable for that failure.2 -
tat2mano✭✭✭✭Tavore1138 wrote: »Lieblingsjunge wrote: »
Taken from the Terms of Service(ToS), which you are supposed(!!) to read before you download/buy a game. I agree that it's not a very customer-friendly way but legally, ZoS is doing nothing wrong. It sucks, yes. Yes, we can whine. But in the end; We did agree to it.
Actually the Terms of service mean nothing, as Sony entertainment found out a number of years ago when they mentioned their games ToS in a lawsuit in the states, the court laughed and threw them out, The ToS are only basically a 'verbal' agreement between yourself and the company, nothing else, there is nothing legal or involving any laws in them.
The ONLY thing in this game and in every other MMO that is legally covered by any laws is any monetary transactions, THAT is all. thats just basic consumer rights.
With online games we enter a 'grey' area (same as the gambling laws concerning RNG cash shop chests) you are actually paying for a service and enter into a contract with ZoS for such service and you should receive this service, if they don't provide the service as agreed and without valid explanation they are at fault.
ToS means nothing only if it breaks some law. Just like a regular contract means nothing if it breaks any law. If the ToS contains parts that are illegal then yes, it will get thrown out. But here we are talking about a private services and their availability, to which you agreed to.
Tell me, how often do you see game companies get suit for taking their servers offline after they stop supporting the game? How often do you see law suits over servers being offline for extended period of time?
You just show that you have no idea what you're talking about.
EDIT: Just to point another thing, verbal agreements are legally binding as well, as long as they are not breaking any laws. Maybe next time do some research before posting such nonsense.
What you have got to remember and what alot of players dont even realise, in every MMO, B2P, PTW, FTP all of them you are paying for NOTHING, you NEVER own anything, nothing is ever 'yours', you could spend millions in the cash shop and have multiple accounts but NEVER actually own anything. So how can you even mention laws concerning something that is not even yours and never was.
ALL you pay for is access to a service, the amount of access they are legally obliged to provide is a 'grey' area, but morally it should be available most of the time unless pre warned of downtime, after all that is what you are paying for.
What most people have issues with and understandably is the complete lack of PR from ZoS.
Actually there is still a lot of room for new law to be made in the area of online services and some countries are already seeing it in different ways - such as some nations where legal action has been taken around in game items and so on. Generally law lags behind technology so this stuff is going to change fast and a TOS written for a global game may not be valid under some local laws, or it may be valid today but not tomorrow if laws change.
This stuff is going to be interesting to watch and see whether companies can manage to defend the approach that they are not liable for the behaviour of their products or whether consumers will push governments to see electronic products just like any other and companies who fail to deliver will actually become liable for that failure.
This could become interesting indeed.0 -
Liptrot✭✭
So aslong as majority is alright doesn't matter about the rest?
I honestly get what your saying but what's prime time for some isn't prime time for others. People can't have a go at others who get upset when they can't play just because they don't have a 9-5 job0 -
Waseem✭✭✭✭✭
✭those players who find excuses for the game's company on extremely long maintenance times -,-
wtf are you? do you get paid to post these stupid comments?
we understand 1 day a month, 2 days a month, we understand that
but freaking 4-6 days between maintenance and "unexpected" log in issues every month? no thats not understandable when its so frequent and sudden
bless those MMOs who used to put double exp and double drop rate for 6-24 hours as a compensation for service problems
thats where it felt like developers actually care about the community7 -
clayandaudrey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭those players who find excuses for the game's company on extremely long maintenance times -,-
wtf are you? do you get paid to post these stupid comments?
we understand 1 day a month, 2 days a month, we understand that
but freaking 4-6 days between maintenance and "unexpected" log in issues every month? no thats not understandable when its so frequent and sudden
bless those MMOs who used to put double exp and double drop rate for 6-24 hours as a compensation for service problems
thats where it felt like developers actually care about the community
Who's finding excuses? I said it sucks but according to the ToS they live by whether it is legal or not, shady or not, stupid or not says they are going to do it and forget you.
People need to stop paying them as I have till they fix things. If you are complaining and still paying them because you think it will be the cause of the game going away you are part of the problem.1 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭Actually some mmos have compensated subs for lost time in the event of excessive unscheduled maintenance or server downtime. It might be nice if zos made at least a gesture in that direction when they have a server essentially out of action for multiple days, even it it is only a pet or a few crowns. Oh and for the record I am not currently subbed so I don't have a vested interest atm.
To do so would be a nice way to apologise for the inconvenience and loss of paid for game time. However it would be a good customer relations gesture not a legal obligation. And who doesn't want a bright pink and lime green daedric pig right?Edited by Jar_Ek on September 8, 2016 2:55PM3 -
CapnPhoton✭✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »azura_star wrote: »If they don't do maintenance, you won't be playing the game at all. And then your subscription really will be a waste of money.
Every online game does maintenance; it's a fact of gaming. Add to the fact that ESO has a large player base and is churning out new content at a very rapid rate, and I don't understand why anyone is surprised still by how much maintenance there is.
I seriously can't beleive you are defending ZOS right now!!! wow when will you actually admit they are wrong!??
So what you want people to say is that they are wrong for maintaining their servers...Xbox One NA Aldmeri Dominion2 -
Browiseth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭oh look it's this thread againskingrad when zoscharacters:PC/NA but live in EU 150+ ping lyfe- EP - M - Strikes-with-Arcane - Argonian Stamina Sorc - lvl 50 - The Flawless Conqueror/Spirit Slayer
- EP - F - Melina Elinia - Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Sinnia Lavellan - Altmer Warden Healer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Follows-the-Arcane - Argonian Healer Sorcerer- lvl 50
- EP - F - Ashes-of-Arcane - Argonian Magicka Necromancer - lvl 50
- EP - M - Bolgrog the Sinh - Orc Stamina Dragonknight - lvl 50
- EP - F - Moonlight Maiden - Altmer Magicka Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Maxine Cauline - Breton Magicka Nightblade - lvl 50
- EP - M - Garrus Loridius - Imperial Stamina Templar - lvl 50
- EP - F - Jennifer Loridius - Imperial Necromancer tank - lvl 50
1 -
Nemoth✭✭So aslong as majority is alright doesn't matter about the rest?
I honestly get what your saying but what's prime time for some isn't prime time for others. People can't have a go at others who get upset when they can't play just because they don't have a 9-5 job
And what exactly do you expect? Them changing their maintenance window to start at 6pm and last till midnight, which is when probably like 90% of the playerbase actually plays, to appease to the few people who work shifts?
You can't please everyone, so logically the minority gets shafted. That just how it is, and not just in gaming industry, but everywhere.Edited by Nemoth on September 8, 2016 3:16PM0 -
Nemoth✭✭We* paid for that entitlement didnt we?
I decide when i want to play and lately it happens to many times that exactly that time when i want to play ZoS suddenly
(imo getting an announcement for upcoming downtime within 1-2 days is considered suddenly since i expect to get an anouncement of downtimes to be at least 3 days in front of the downtime since thats what the vast majority of MMO's are succeeding in atm) anounced a downtime.
And i dont care for that ToS or EULA crap,
its my money and i decide what to do with it,
if ZoS keeps this up then i dont spend one more cent on them.
And i truelly hope more will follow me so that ZoS maybe gets an oppifany and gets things straighten out,
otherwise i dont see a very bright future for this game,
and that would be a shame imo.
No, we paid for what we agreed to in ToS. You can throw your arms around and ignore that document like it has no value, but that doesn't suddenly make it irrelevant.
And I agree, it is your money. You would have made a 1000x better statement if you actually stopped paying ZOS any money than by spamming the forums. But the reality is, this is just all talk. In a weeks time, you won't even remember you couldn't play for few hours a couple of days in a row.Edited by Nemoth on September 8, 2016 3:26PM1
