One Tamriel and provisioning recipes

VerboseQuips · September 2016

I am wondering whether it will still be possible to find the low-level provisioning recipes once One Tamriel goes live.

Will we only find high-level ones, or will they all appear in specific zones, a bit like the way the various item sets will be tied to specific zones? Finding only rank 6 recipes becomes utterly useless once you have them all already.

As I am a bit of a collector, I would prefer, for example, to find all the Dunmer-related recipes in Deshaan and Stonefalls, all the khajiiti-themed recipes in Khenarti's Roost and Reaper's March, and so on, instead of losing access forever to the lower recipes.

Taternater · September 2016

According to the patch notes linked to at the top of the forums, 75% of the time the recipe will be tied to your provisioning skills and 25% will be for the zone. Unless I misread it?

VerboseQuips · September 2016

Taternater wrote: »

According to the patch notes linked to at the top of the forums, 75% of the time the recipe will be tied to your provisioning skills and 25% will be for the zone. Unless I misread it?

Oh, thanks.

I didn't notice the patch notes header, I am delving in this right now. I should have searched a bit before asking.

Beardimus · September 2016

If that's the case the Mats for all other crafting could / should do the same. That would cover concerns in other threads about how crafters will farm a bank of lower tier materials

STEVIL · September 2016

Beardimus wrote: »

If that's the case the Mats for all other crafting could / should do the same. That would cover concerns in other threads about how crafters will farm a bank of lower tier materials

Recipe does not equate to mat.

Recipes are not expended every time you make new food.

You only need to find a given recipe once. you need mats every time you craft.

Also you can purchase recipes from npc vendors - again for that one time purchase and forever use.

FORCING every character to get 25% useless mats so that a few crafters can still famr the way they used to without changing is bad for the game economy.

high end crafters should IMO be arguing to get the lower cap on mat use for crafting removed, not to impose useless mats on everyone else. That turns their OneT "plight" of "i only find top tier mats now, not lower ones like cotton" (boo hoo) into a pretty solid gain all around. that is a change that works with the new open world scheme not clining on to a zone mat-scheme that started dieing long ago.

of course, with everyone always being able to harvest useful mats that are applicable to their character needs, the demand for "sell me the mats oh illustrious high end crafter" will go down a bit so its really the crafter-from-on-high ability to "harvest" GOLD from other players that is at risk by making it easier for everyone else to get relevant mats.

Kemono · September 2016

Taternater wrote: »

According to the patch notes linked to at the top of the forums, 75% of the time the recipe will be tied to your provisioning skills and 25% will be for the zone. Unless I misread it?

it supposed to work like this.
but problem is: it is opoite to what they want to do with One Tamriel.
And how exactly im supposed to know what "level" zone im in right now, when all mobs will be scaled to CP160 ?

We are yet to find how this going to work in game -but reality is that there is ALLREADY a masive shortage of some tiers provisioning recipes. They are so rare, that this is not even funny.
Im talking mostly about blue&purple recipes from tiers: lev 20-25 and vet1-10

And yes, shortage is created purly by "recipe drop mechanics" and fact that its really easy to level provisioning to 50 (and then you only going to fing recipes for vet15-vet160)

You know, last 3 months i regularly visited most guild stores on my server -and i still miss one recipe, its like it dont exist anymore (purple vet 1 recipe)
Btw i really sugest Sous Chef and ESO Master Recipe List addon for all provisioning crafters, ist a Must Have

Daraugh · September 2016

Considering how short a time you're low leveled and how many recipes there are, and you become permanently level capped with plenty of time to find all those recipes, it seems like the drop rate should be reversed. I'd rather have random 75% low level drop rate, of any level and 25% of the high level. The exception being writs, which should be on level or *maybe* you get a higher chance of low level blue or purple recipes and a normal chance at any on level recipe.

Given that leveling is changing so much, what I'd really like is if all recipes were like the Wrothgar ones. Get them at any level and they scale with you. Then you could make any recipe for any level instead of eating the same thing every time.

Pomaikai · September 2016

Provisioning died the day they released the Orsinium quest recipes. We've never seen another recipe since, and since those scale, I doubt we'll ever see another. Besides, they don't require you to actually master provisioning, even if it's dog simple, to make.

Provisioning is dead.

STEVIL · September 2016

Pomaikai wrote: »

Provisioning died the day they released the Orsinium quest recipes. We've never seen another recipe since, and since those scale, I doubt we'll ever see another. Besides, they don't require you to actually master provisioning, even if it's dog simple, to make.

Provisioning is dead.

New recipes coming with october event

Also, while the wrothgar delicacies are STUPENDOUS for lvls 1-50 use they aren't as good except for sustain sets for more than that.

But provisioning still remains one of the better writ crafts (ingredients useful always, recipes most of the time), second only to alchemy (i burn natural water, and two crap ingredients for multple mats which always help and can include columbine, mout flower blessed etc without a single skill point spent on the craft ever!!!)

i think the reason crafting for provisioning is less "used" is that while it procs four per craft like alchemy, a given food lasts for an hour or more while potions say last for an encounter at best.

JKorr · September 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

If that's the case the Mats for all other crafting could / should do the same. That would cover concerns in other threads about how crafters will farm a bank of lower tier materials

Recipe does not equate to mat.

Recipes are not expended every time you make new food.

You only need to find a given recipe once. you need mats every time you craft.

Also you can purchase recipes from npc vendors - again for that one time purchase and forever use.

FORCING every character to get 25% useless mats so that a few crafters can still famr the way they used to without changing is bad for the game economy.

high end crafters should IMO be arguing to get the lower cap on mat use for crafting removed, not to impose useless mats on everyone else. That turns their OneT "plight" of "i only find top tier mats now, not lower ones like cotton" (boo hoo) into a pretty solid gain all around. that is a change that works with the new open world scheme not clining on to a zone mat-scheme that started dieing long ago.

of course, with everyone always being able to harvest useful mats that are applicable to their character needs, the demand for "sell me the mats oh illustrious high end crafter" will go down a bit so its really the crafter-from-on-high ability to "harvest" GOLD from other players that is at risk by making it easier for everyone else to get relevant mats.

When you craft gear for free, exactly how does one "harvest" gold from other players?

I, and other crafters in my guilds, don't charge for crafting. If you want nirncrux items, you supply the nirn. If you want a style that requires a rare style mat, you supply it; scute or tusk or feather or charcoal. If you want a 9 trait set like tbs, and you're level 36, and you're in my guilds, I'll make it for you for free. If you want a cp160 set, you give me the mats and I'll craft it for free.

I've gotten tips from a few people, especially the one who wanted Armor Master and I got killed several times getting to and from the crafting station in IC to make it for him, but I've never gotten paid for crafting.

BenevolentBowd · September 2016

The patch notes state:
Updated the way Provisioning recipes drop as follows:
Recipes in Cyrodiil, the Imperial City, and Dungeons now drop based on your rank in the Recipe Improvement passive.

In other zones, recipes drop based on your passive rank 75% of the time, and the rest of the time drop the same way they dropped prior to One Tamriel, by zone.

Warning: Math with fractions....

Roughly speaking, 1/3 of the recipes are found in each faction and 1/5 of those faction recipes are found in each zone. Note blue and purple recipes start at higher levels and are fewer in number.

In delves or locations where containers' contents aren't considered stolen
In theory, if you dropped your passive to match what the zone used to give, you would have approximately a 50% (75%/3 = 25% + 25% = 50%) to find the recipes that dropped in that zone before and a 50% chance to find one from the other faction zones previously at the same level.

In containers' where items contents are considered stolen
Here's where things may get interesting based on comments made recently at PAXWest. It has been stated that stolen loot in the past was also tied to the zone level. Since the levels are now gone, this created an issue. The ZOS solution to this was to change the loot level of the stolen containers to the legerdemain passives. So would mechanic apply to "stolen" recipes? e.g. would a high level legermain rank increase the chance to get blue or purple recipes from containers? @ZOS_GinaBruno

STEVIL · September 2016

JKorr wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

If that's the case the Mats for all other crafting could / should do the same. That would cover concerns in other threads about how crafters will farm a bank of lower tier materials

Recipe does not equate to mat.

Recipes are not expended every time you make new food.

You only need to find a given recipe once. you need mats every time you craft.

Also you can purchase recipes from npc vendors - again for that one time purchase and forever use.

FORCING every character to get 25% useless mats so that a few crafters can still famr the way they used to without changing is bad for the game economy.

high end crafters should IMO be arguing to get the lower cap on mat use for crafting removed, not to impose useless mats on everyone else. That turns their OneT "plight" of "i only find top tier mats now, not lower ones like cotton" (boo hoo) into a pretty solid gain all around. that is a change that works with the new open world scheme not clining on to a zone mat-scheme that started dieing long ago.

of course, with everyone always being able to harvest useful mats that are applicable to their character needs, the demand for "sell me the mats oh illustrious high end crafter" will go down a bit so its really the crafter-from-on-high ability to "harvest" GOLD from other players that is at risk by making it easier for everyone else to get relevant mats.

When you craft gear for free, exactly how does one "harvest" gold from other players?

I, and other crafters in my guilds, don't charge for crafting. If you want nirncrux items, you supply the nirn. If you want a style that requires a rare style mat, you supply it; scute or tusk or feather or charcoal. If you want a 9 trait set like tbs, and you're level 36, and you're in my guilds, I'll make it for you for free. If you want a cp160 set, you give me the mats and I'll craft it for free.

I've gotten tips from a few people, especially the one who wanted Armor Master and I got killed several times getting to and from the crafting station in IC to make it for him, but I've never gotten paid for crafting.

So if o read this strsight i talked about the effect on people making gold selling mats, you said you dont do that and then asked how to do it?

Very confusing indeed.

Short answer - typing slowly - if you dont currently sell mats to other players or charge them for crafting then you wont be impacted negatively by more of them having more mats at the levels they are. You may even be helped since any mat losses you now suffer due to your generosity will likely be reduced by more folks having more relevant mats.

But if you currently take advantage of (exploit?) the growing skew between character level and zone mats to harvest gold from other players by selling mats that are in short supply relstive to need or charging for mats when crafting then that mmethod of harvesting gold will suffer if other characters startvgetying msts they need everywhere and not justvwhen their level, quedt and zone happen to line up.

That is, unless you can get the out dated, ill fitted zone-locked-mats kept in place once open world play anywhere OneT goes live. If that happens, harvesting gold may get a windfall.

Shadowshire · September 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

....

FORCING every character to get 25% useless mats so that a few crafters can still famr the way they used to without changing is bad for the game economy.

high end crafters should IMO be arguing to get the lower cap on mat use for crafting removed, not to impose useless mats on everyone else. That turns their OneT "plight" of "i only find top tier mats now, not lower ones like cotton" (boo hoo) into a pretty solid gain all around. that is a change that works with the new open world scheme not clining on to a zone mat-scheme that started dieing long ago.

of course, with everyone always being able to harvest useful mats that are applicable to their character needs, the demand for "sell me the mats oh illustrious high end crafter" will go down a bit so its really the crafter-from-on-high ability to "harvest" GOLD from other players that is at risk by making it easier for everyone else to get relevant mats.

First of all, food materials (such as rice, barley, red meat, etc.) are not associated with any inspiration level for the Provisioning craft. The two primary passives for Provisioning affect only which Recipes the PC can use to cook food. There is no reason for the raw materials for Provisioning that are found in any zone to change for One Tamriel.

No one forces any player to search barrels, crates, sacks, etc. whether for food materials or for anything else. Currently a PC can find other "useless" things there, too, like lower-level pieces of armor or weapons for which the PC (whether any of your alts) has no use, and whether they're worth selling in a Guild Store depends upon the guild. It will be interesting to see whether the level of the gear that a PC finds in such a container will be adjusted to the PC's current level, regardless of the zone in which the container is located.

In the meantime, I suggest that you stick to discussing the topic at hand and refrain from rants against players who enjoy crafting. Clearly, you don't have anything at stake in this aspect of the game. There's nothing wrong with the way that the current system works. If it isn't broke, don't fix it.

Shadowshire · September 2016

STEVIL wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

When you craft gear for free, exactly how does one "harvest" gold from other players?

I, and other crafters in my guilds, don't charge for crafting. If you want nirncrux items, you supply the nirn. If you want a style that requires a rare style mat, you supply it; scute or tusk or feather or charcoal. If you want a 9 trait set like tbs, and you're level 36, and you're in my guilds, I'll make it for you for free. If you want a cp160 set, you give me the mats and I'll craft it for free.

I've gotten tips from a few people, especially the one who wanted Armor Master and I got killed several times getting to and from the crafting station in IC to make it for him, but I've never gotten paid for crafting.

So if o read this strsight i talked about the effect on people making gold selling mats, you said you dont do that and then asked how to do it?

Very confusing indeed.

Short answer - typing slowly - if you dont currently sell mats to other players or charge them for crafting then you wont be impacted negatively by more of them having more mats at the levels they are. You may even be helped since any mat losses you now suffer due to your generosity will likely be reduced by more folks having more relevant mats.

But if you currently take advantage of (exploit?) the growing skew between character level and zone mats to harvest gold from other players by selling mats that are in short supply relstive to need or charging for mats when crafting then that mmethod of harvesting gold will suffer if other characters startvgetying msts they need everywhere and not justvwhen their level, quedt and zone happen to line up.

That is, unless you can get the out dated, ill fitted zone-locked-mats kept in place once open world play anywhere OneT goes live. If that happens, harvesting gold may get a windfall.

@Stevil: Frankly, I think that you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Apparently you don't believe it when someone tells you that they craft gear for their guildmates for no profit. There are plenty of guilds in which crafters do that. May I suggest that your diatribe is mostly based upon the current price of Columbine?? I would bet that the majority of players who harvest Columbine at every opportunity don't harvest any other herb -- except, perhaps, Bugloss and/or Nirnroot -- to sell.

To quote https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/288585/pts-patch-notes-v2-6-0/p1?#reply-anchor

"All harvest nodes now scale to your combat level or applicable crafting passive rank."

The "weasel" in the above statement is whether a harvest node scales to a PC's combat level, or it scales instead to the rank of the corresponding crafting passive for that raw material. It is not clear as to when it scales to one or it scales to the other, and whether the one to which it scales is determined randomly.

That said, however, apparently this change for One Tamriel will affect raw materials for Blacksmithing, Clothing, and Woodworking. It will not affect the distribution of materials for Alchemy (except for its solvents), or for Enchanting or Provisioning -- all of which are currently about the same in every zone.

Of course, the only reason that a crafter would buy raw materials for Blacksmithing, Clothing, or Woodworking is to use them to produce those goods, whether they will use the gear themselves or will give or sell them to other players. Very rarely do I see any crafted weapons or armor for sale in a Guild Store via any Guild Trader. The only profit in making crafted gear is with the daily Crafting Writs. If a player does not do those Writs, there is no pressing need to constantly forage for the materials to make the gear, whether also for the consumables. So some players routinely buy the raw materials when they do want to craft armor or weapons. Or they might buy them when they haven't had enough time to forage for them instead. Sometimes I have sold surpluses, and less often I have bought materials to make gear for a specific level.

At this writing, there is very little demand for Enchanting runestones -- other than the Kuta aspect runestone for Legendary glyphs -- since ZO started adding at least one Aspect runestone to every node to make them more plentiful. The ones that determine the Character Level for the Glyph are the Potency runestones. Again, ZO changed their distribution to make them more plentiful and, if memory serves, independent of the zone where they are found. A PC can find every level of Aspect runestone in every zone, and the Essence runestones of every sub-type are distributed in every zone.

Provisioning foodstuffs usually don't sell very quickly, with the exception of the Psyjic Ambrosia dishes that increase a PC's experience level gains for ~ 30 minutes. Those recipes require Perfect Roe obtained by fileting fish, and that material is rare (the player has to catch a very large number of fish to find just one unit). Of course, as with anything else that is rare, a PC can make a lot of coin selling Perfect Roe. Some provisioners actually make large quantities of various dishes and sell them to NPC vendors for 5 GP each. If anyone is regularly buying raw materials for recipes, it would probably be them.

There is, however, a lively market for uncommon and rare recipes per se, many of them for cooking food buffs used by PCs lower than Level 50 or lower than CP150. There will be some changes to recipe "drops" in One Tamriel as described in other posts preceding this one.

Currently, Alchemy solvents are associated with pact zones in the same way as crafting materials for Blacksmithing, Clothing, and Woodworking. However, the Pure Water nodes in DLC zones currently yield the Potion solvent that is for the PC's current rank of the Solvent Proficiency passive. I don't know whether the combat level of a PC has any effect upon the Alchemy solvents that can be obtained in DLC zones (e.g., Wrothgar, Hew's Bane, Gold Coast).

Frankly, in my experience, potions are slow-selling, and no one wants to spend much for a "consumable" regardless of how beneficial it might be -- with the exception of the three-attribute potions that restore Health, Magicka, and Stamina simultaneously. Even for those, the players prefer to buy the raw herbs.

Again, in my experience, other than in the DLC zones, the available Poison solvent is also determined by the corresponding Solvent Proficiency for the pact zone in which it is obtained (by looting it from a killed animal). I discovered this after ZO bollixed charging my credit card and shut off the ESO Plus Membership, so my PCs had to do Crafting Writs for the Craglorn Quartermaster again. Tarblack was included in the payoff for the Alchemy writs, but it had never been included in the payoff for the potions previously delivered to Orsinium, in Wrothgar.

So I suppose that One Tamriel will apply this to all zones, and a Poison solvent will correspond to the PC's current Solvent Proficiency passive regardless of the zone in which the animal is killed and looted. Or it will be made available according to the PC's combat level -- the circumstances under which that will occur instead are unclear.

What this means is that my main high-level PCs with maxed crafting passives will not be able to forage for Alchemy solvents that can be used by my alternate PCs. The Alchemy solvents that the alts obtain will depend upon their own Solvent Proficiency rank or their current "combat level". It is unclear whether the player should expend Skill Points to increase the alt's Solvent Proficiency passive rank in order to most reliably obtain the higher-level solvents while foraging with the alt. Perhaps they had just as well make the potions and poisons with the alt, too.

The same quandry arises with regard to foraging for the raw materials used for Blacksmithing, Clothing, and Woodworking. The ore, fiber, or wood that the alternate PC obtains either will correspond to their current level for their Metalworking, Tailoring, and Woodworking passives, respectively, or to their current "combat level".

ZO is not doing us any favors with the lack of clarity in how this change will actually be implemented.

Last, but not least, the Columbine herb is very, very expensive because there is a very, very high demand for it -- to use in three-attribute potions -- but there is a relatively low supply. Speculators who buy at one price to resell it at a higher price do not help matters. It is not abundant in the zones with which I am acquainted (with one exception). Whether ZO will change the distribution for Columbine to make it more plentiful everywhere remains to be seen. There is some demand for reagents which make Invisibility potions, too. Most of the other less-used herbs are probably bought for fulfilling Alchemy Writs.

In conclusion, in my humble opinion, the decision to implement One Tamriel means that the ZO developers, like many ESO players, are still stuck in a solo-player frame of reference. Evidently, the Zenimax marketing parent of ZO has failed to successfully promote ESO as a genuine massively multiplayer online role playing game. The "three pacts at war" theme just doesn't appeal to most players nowadays (just ask Blizzard Entertainment about the worn-out Horde vs. Alliance paradigm).

So ZO has decided to make ESO a solo-player game like Skyrim with a PvP zone, and forming or joining groups is de-emphasized as much as possible. The lore and the quests which now bring it to life in the game will remain, but how many players will discover it?

All of the foregoing comments in this post are based on my personal experience during the past 18+ months of playing ESO, and both of my main PCs are now top-level in each of the six crafts. Your experience may differ. Compared to most players, I suppose that I spend a lot of time foraging for materials. What I don't use, I can usually sell. But I don't sell many, if any, low-level crafting materials, because I usually don't send my mains to the zones where they occur. So, virtually all of the GP I gain is from players who are buying materials for the highest crafted gear and/or consumables. Why do you feel sorry for them??

STEVIL · September 2016

@Shadowshire

just a few points i found relevant to reply to.

You imagine i don't believe claims of free crafting. While i certainly don't believe every claim I hear on most any subject, I don't think i have given evidence of not believing any such claim on this to a specific individual so... thats one healthy imagination you have there.

You imagine my position is based on the price of columbine which is frankly so far off kilter compared to what i have said to make me wonder how it reasonably could have been reached. Columbine is not a scaling ingredient. So it has nothing to do with whether or not zone mat nodes scale to the character's levels or not. You might as well as have imagined it was based off the availability of style motifs or emeralds. I personally cant recall ever buying columbine. Not ruling it out but hey, i can say it hasn't happened in the last year.

You imagine a "weasel" in the crafting nodes, as if there wasn't a PTS and people weren't running in it now for over a week and where examples of results and even some discrepancies in some areas don't show what the implenentation is as of this moment or that it seems to match what has been done for a long time now in DLC. There is no mystery, no loch-ness-weasel. In the zones in the PTS the nodes scale what seems to be roughly 50/50 between character level and character passive skill. There are currently on PTS (prior to last night's patch at least) a few places where scaling bugs on some things, like a dungeon here or there which gives gear at cp140 etc but those are being slotted for fix. So, its not some unfathomable mystery here just because you only have cited a single sentence in the patch notes.

You go back to it later, as if again we haven't seen nodes scaled to character level and skill level in play for so long now and this is a new mysterious thing or even seen the PTS now for a week.

There is no great mystery here - no disservice done by ZO.

You claim to rarely see any crafted armor or weapon in guild traders. Definitely possible, if one only rarely ever looks in guild traders for example or rarely looks at the armor and weapon lists in them - then it would be true. I for instance rarely see lockpicks in those guild stores because i never search in those tabs in my guild trader searches. However, almost every time, at least 3/4 of the time I look at armor or weapons, i see crafted gear. often its julianos or hundings but a few others as well now and again.

As for your uninformed status on alchemy solvent scaling, in current DLC they scale like the other scaled items do - to your character level or passive skill level at about 50/50 give or take. Again, no mystery here for anyone having experience with it, On the PTS server, it seems the same scaling applies everywhere barring bugs.

You are correct when you suggest that your one maxed craft character wont be able to personally harvest in OneT for your lower alts. however, the alts will. At least half the scalable mats will be at a level suitable to their current gear cap (more if their crafting skill matches their character skill.) When you imagine the alts should also do the crafting itself, thats not a conclusion i would make based on what i have seen on DLC and on PTS. Simply put even if their skill for mat levels is up to snuff to give them the100% chance of metas at their gear cap, they may not have the skills in the multipliers and other passives that make it as efficient for them to craft or the styles/traits if you are talking equipment.

of my 12 characters, no character has maxed crafting in all crafts. Some have master level in THREE crafts. Some have master in two. half have master in one or more. About half have no crafting mastery at all.I dont think any have skills in the mat type/level use except for if they have mastered it. All (I think) have skill points spent in medicinal use, hirelings or keen eye in crafts they haven't spent other skills in. All have 10 Cp spent to get the harvest doubling passive.

based on my experience there with those, its not more efficient to have the lesser crafters craft their own just because they can harvest scaled mats where they occur. I see no reason to believe that will change when they can all harvest useful relevant mats everywhere in OneT.

You wonder about how many players will discover the quests? In the new onet design the questing is still a good way to raise set drop rates, as main questlines drop their named pieces at various endpoints. So, in addition to the Xp and skills gained by those, ZOs has further incentivized their play in the Onet world with sets dropping, which they currently dont do on live in the vast majority of cases. i dont see any reason to believe the questing will be reduced in the new design but we will just have to see.

What i would suggest to you, in order to gain a better understanding of the situation and upcoming changes is to spend less time imagining whats in other player's minds and more time seeing how things work in DLC (where scaling is in place) or even on the PTS (if you have access to it.) Imagination and conjuring is fine and dandy but when it comes to constructive discussion experience is also helpful. if nothing else an hour of running on PTS thru a number of zones would give you a better feel for how scaled nodes there work.