R.I.P. BOE in Trials and Dungeons

Trublz · September 2016

Tandor wrote: »

Lylith wrote: »

as someone said earlier in another thread, it seems more and more that players are being punished for playing this game.

I see it as the opposite, it's encouraging people to play the game rather than just logging in and buying what they want from the trader.

this logic makes absolutely 0 sense... People are already playing the game.. 1 that's why they are upset things are changing. 2 you have to play the game to earn gold.. So anyone buying gear is still "playing" the game just in their own way. 3 not everyone likes ever aspect of the game. Some prefer one part of the game and despise others., we should t be forced to endure the aspects that we despise.
This implement hurts more people than helps, and most importantly hurts both sides. Both dedicated and new players.
Honestly the only people this actually helps is ZOS make a couple bucks. They're trading player enjoyment for $ in their pocket.

Peekachu99 · September 2016

kongkim wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

You have to play the content to get the gear. What's the issue? You can also trade with anyone else in your party now. Also, a lot of the miscellaneous trial gear has been moved to overworld locations or delves.

I see no issue other than the uber rich 1% who are angry they can't sell their vendor purples anymore. Good, maybe the market can stabilize now to less insane prices.

Thats fair, let me explain the problem to you from a raider perspective.

repair costs = 1k
potions/food= ~8k
gems/repair kits=1k(long runs and such)

so we're looking at a 10k cost per run, now lets say I do 4 vet trials a week. So thats 40k/w = 160k per month. That means that for me to step into trials I am paying 160k per month and getting virtually nothing out of it.

Do a raid less and go get some gold from other places. They like people to do all the content and not just focus on one. So can't see how its ok to get it all from one type of content.

You're getting the challenge. That's what minmaxxers supposedly want. I do. I run vet RoM almost daily, often with pugs, cause I like getting them through the gauntlet. Risk should cost you money. And the reward of exclusive gear still exists. If you're relying on trials as your only source of income, there are dozens of far more lucrative, less intensive ways to make money in this game. Heck, I get 10k in the first 30m of a session just from doing writs on 4 toons. Plus, the chance for tempers etc., which are the only guaranteed source of money in this game. Especially with the intended changes ahead.

Xjcon · September 2016

To me the biggest issue with everything being BOP is space. Not only will we be farming till we get the piece and trait we want but we will be forced to stash all the pieces of other sets just so we won't have to try to grind them out later. At this point in time I have a bank full of sets I want to keep simply because they are BOP. If it was possible to buy those sets to try them out I would have so much bank space.

Jaronking · September 2016

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

from The notes: "All set drops from dungeons and Trials are bind-on-pickup."

This is hands down the dumbest move I have seen ZOS make in over a year of playing this game. Effectively removing gold making opportunity in ALL of the end-game PVE content will be detrimental to this game.

What was detrimental for this game was the fact that many of the highly-desirable PvP sets were only dropping in trials that PvP players have no interest in running. That is what you were making gold on. ZOS moved those sets outside of trials. You can no longer charge 300K gold per piece for them. My PvP heart truly bleeds for you.

but the thing is there are still some PvP sets that are wanted by PvE players which can only be bought using AP (with those PvP players charging 300K gold per piece)...i wait to see your heart run out of blood

these sets should therefore be made available to buy for gold at an NPC shop

Please tell me what PVP SETS sell for that much I need to start selling them.

RazielSR · September 2016

TBH...it is QUITE PATHETIC. Yes.

DRXHarbinger · September 2016

The good thing about is. It won't give these trial sets a price. 1st person to get a ring chucks it out at 500k+ and everyone follows suit. Now if it's group trade only people can't do that. Either take the offer or leave it bound forever. Quite a good idea imo.

Silver_Strider · September 2016

The sets people would sell in the Guild Traders were overpriced anyway.
I do expect a large drop in Guild trader usage as a result of this change as now they'll only really have Alchemy reagents, food, motifs and tempers to really sell anymore.
Still too easy to make money in this game regardless of what you do so I don't really see much of a problem.

Milvan · September 2016

Am I the only one here that I don't really mind with BOP itens? Its very simple, if you want the gear you need to run the content to get it, quite simple. It doesn't matter if you are a rich guild master of a big ass trade guild, if you want something, you need to run for it!

I actually prefer this way.

Docmandu · September 2016

kongkim wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

from The notes: "All set drops from dungeons and Trials are bind-on-pickup."

This is hands down the dumbest move I have seen ZOS make in over a year of playing this game. Effectively removing gold making opportunity in ALL of the end-game PVE content will be detrimental to this game.

I thought PVE was the bread and butter of this game, this complete lack of understanding of the basics of MMO's on zenimax's part is mind-blowing.

I personally have been building my guild roster to teach new people all the normal trials. I have around 100 pieces of EBON, WORM, Elegant, and skirmisher gear saved to give to new players to help them with their progression. As of yesterday I have had to post everything as quickly and as cheaply as I can in fear of millions of gold worth of gear being bound to my account.

I'm planning on building a vet team from scratch, I have all ready set aside a million gold for Weapon/Spellpower pots which WILL COVER 1 TEAM learning vet. Now I question how willing I will be to keep training new players trials when i'm to broke to upgrade a new gear set to gold. Why does an elite player who has every set piece in gold want to run with us and help us? he gets nothing unless he wants to fleece people for BOP items.

Imagine if you made made every PVP set BOP, does that sound right???

Mix this into the picture:

"Survey Reports received from Crafting Writs may now send you to any zone throughout the world."

And we are looking at some very broke and unhappy trials players.

I hate to say it but it's seems to be paving a path to where they put gold in crown boxes, and the broke masses rejoice.

I would say cheers but, meh.

I think its ok. BOP is never cool. But as they said at PEX.
The only thing it do is adding an insane amount of gold in the top players pockets and keeping other players from ever doing the contest as they can just buy the items.
Its not that weird that they like more people to play their content and close the huge gab between the amount of gold people make.

There's other ways to achieve this.. ie token system as some people have mentioned before... then you do the content you actually enjoy, get tokens, get the gear you are after.

With BoP garbage you are forced to do 1 type of content to get the item you want. And it's not like the item is ONLY good for that type content (just look at vmsa drops)

Gokmak · September 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Effectively removing gold making opportunity in ALL of the end-game PVE content will be detrimental to this game.

People running bots have no problem making money. This game ignores bots, does NOTHING to stop them.

Docmandu · September 2016

Milvan wrote: »

Am I the only one here that I don't really mind with BOP itens? Its very simple, if you want the gear you need to run the content to get it, quite simple. It doesn't matter if you are a rich guild master of a big ass trade guild, if you want something, you need to run for it!

I actually prefer this way.

What if the content is the one you don't like at all?! Doing content to get the reward is fine, being forced into doing 1 type of content, not so much.

And if it's because they want people to try different content, then just make it so that each item has an "optimal" content to get the item, with the other types of content, still being viable but less optimal. At least then, people that hate trial, vmsa, vdsa, pvp, dungeons or world bosses, have the option to get it via another means, with a bit more effort.

Wifeaggro13 · September 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

from The notes: "All set drops from dungeons and Trials are bind-on-pickup."

This is hands down the dumbest move I have seen ZOS make in over a year of playing this game. Effectively removing gold making opportunity in ALL of the end-game PVE content will be detrimental to this game.

I thought PVE was the bread and butter of this game, this complete lack of understanding of the basics of MMO's on zenimax's part is mind-blowing.

I personally have been building my guild roster to teach new people all the normal trials. I have around 100 pieces of EBON, WORM, Elegant, and skirmisher gear saved to give to new players to help them with their progression. As of yesterday I have had to post everything as quickly and as cheaply as I can in fear of millions of gold worth of gear being bound to my account.

I'm planning on building a vet team from scratch, I have all ready set aside a million gold for Weapon/Spellpower pots which WILL COVER 1 TEAM learning vet. Now I question how willing I will be to keep training new players trials when i'm to broke to upgrade a new gear set to gold. Why does an elite player who has every set piece in gold want to run with us and help us? he gets nothing unless he wants to fleece people for BOP items.

Imagine if you made made every PVP set BOP, does that sound right???

Mix this into the picture:

"Survey Reports received from Crafting Writs may now send you to any zone throughout the world."

And we are looking at some very broke and unhappy trials players.

I hate to say it but it's seems to be paving a path to where they put gold in crown boxes, and the broke masses rejoice.

I would say cheers but, meh.

Horrible idea but Zos is too damn lazy to fix their itemization add meaningfull content that is not regurigtated solo content to the end game then reverse the group content to solo. so ya this is another weak attempt to add longevity to a game with out putting to much effort in to actual develoment. so ya yaye !!!!

Wifeaggro13 · September 2016

An easy solution to there garbage trait system and Boe problem I'd to make Boe item chr bound not account bound.

Milvan · September 2016

Docmandu wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

Am I the only one here that I don't really mind with BOP itens? Its very simple, if you want the gear you need to run the content to get it, quite simple. It doesn't matter if you are a rich guild master of a big ass trade guild, if you want something, you need to run for it!

I actually prefer this way.

What if the content is the one you don't like at all?! Doing content to get the reward is fine, being forced into doing 1 type of content, not so much.

And if it's because they want people to try different content, then just make it so that each item has an "optimal" content to get the item, with the other types of content, still being viable but less optimal. At least then, people that hate trial, vmsa, vdsa, pvp, dungeons or world bosses, have the option to get it via another means, with a bit more effort.

If there is content that I don't like it at all I would try to find other set to farm of course. With the next update, there is almost 100 sets in this game to farm or craft, why would I need to stick with the one that I don't like content where it drops?

I think that is much lame and dull to have all gear BOE and easily found on guild vendors to buy. If I'm a rich player I would easily buy anything I need and roll out. With the new BOP people will actually need to run the content it means more players to group up, more trials groups etc. Its awesome!

Wifeaggro13 · September 2016

Milvan wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

Am I the only one here that I don't really mind with BOP itens? Its very simple, if you want the gear you need to run the content to get it, quite simple. It doesn't matter if you are a rich guild master of a big ass trade guild, if you want something, you need to run for it!

I actually prefer this way.

What if the content is the one you don't like at all?! Doing content to get the reward is fine, being forced into doing 1 type of content, not so much.

And if it's because they want people to try different content, then just make it so that each item has an "optimal" content to get the item, with the other types of content, still being viable but less optimal. At least then, people that hate trial, vmsa, vdsa, pvp, dungeons or world bosses, have the option to get it via another means, with a bit more effort.

If there is content that I don't like it at all I would try to find other set to farm of course. With the next update, there is almost 100 sets in this game to farm or craft, why would I need to stick with the one that I don't like content where it drops?

I think that is much lame and dull to have all gear BOE and easily found on guild vendors to buy. If I'm a rich player I would easily buy anything I need and roll out. With the new BOP people will actually need to run the content it means more players to group up, more trials groups etc. Its awesome!

Because it dilutes the options to make money. We are not talking about all the sets being BOE. Bur having some of these sets Boe allows us dungeon farmers to make some money instead of mats , and decon. As it is the actual crafting skill is worthless.

Saucy_Jack · September 2016

With this new setup, I, as a trader who made the majority of his money flipping stuff I found for cheap on the kiosks, am now relegated to running around in circles farming mats for my gold.

But here's the thing: right now, I might have found some set piece for 30K less than MM price, and sold it for ~25K profit. Nothing crazy; I'm not marking crap up to 500K or whathaveyou.

With this new setup, if I want to make 25K, I have to farm enough ore to find three tempers. Which doesn't seem like a lot, but the refining RNG's been in the crapper.

For those of you who do dungeons, or trials, or pvp, and honestly don't care whether I can make decent money or not because you're not interested in the economic game, you now know how I feel about doing dungeons, or trials, or pvp.

Cryptical · September 2016

Docmandu wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

Am I the only one here that I don't really mind with BOP itens? Its very simple, if you want the gear you need to run the content to get it, quite simple. It doesn't matter if you are a rich guild master of a big ass trade guild, if you want something, you need to run for it!

I actually prefer this way.

What if the content is the one you don't like at all?! Doing content to get the reward is fine, being forced into doing 1 type of content, not so much.

Nobody is forcing you to do crap. You want the award, you gotta participate. You want the heisman, you gotta put on the football gear. You want the gold medal for ski jump, gotta put on skis.

Your perspective is "I want the Stanley cup but I don't like hockey, waaaaaah! It's the BiS of cups and I neeeeeed it, waaaaah! Why should I be forced to do that content just to get my cup, waaaaah!!"

Ladies and gentlemen age 38ish and up, witness the results of those "participation trophies" handed out to those kids younger than us, just for showing up. They began feeling like they earned the trophy without needing to have played the game, all it took was a coach spending money to buy the reward. And that follows forward into this mindset that people have earned the BiS gear just by logging in, without needing to have played the game, all it takes is gold to buy the reward. Mollycoddling.

Saucy_Jack · September 2016

I'm not particularly interested in getting the gear sets for myself, though I'll admit my magplar's been itching for some o' dat spell cure set, and my stamblade's been itching for some o' dat vicious ophidian set. On the surface, my beef isn't that people need to do certain content to get certain sets.

My beef is that as a consequence of this decision by ZOS, a whole sector of the economy is being wiped out. And the Good Lord knows that the economy in this game needs all the help it can get.

Wifeaggro13 · September 2016

Cryptical wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

Am I the only one here that I don't really mind with BOP itens? Its very simple, if you want the gear you need to run the content to get it, quite simple. It doesn't matter if you are a rich guild master of a big ass trade guild, if you want something, you need to run for it!

I actually prefer this way.

What if the content is the one you don't like at all?! Doing content to get the reward is fine, being forced into doing 1 type of content, not so much.

Nobody is forcing you to do crap. You want the award, you gotta participate. You want the heisman, you gotta put on the football gear. You want the gold medal for ski jump, gotta put on skis.

Your perspective is "I want the Stanley cup but I don't like hockey, waaaaaah! It's the BiS of cups and I neeeeeed it, waaaaah! Why should I be forced to do that content just to get my cup, waaaaah!!"

Ladies and gentlemen age 38ish and up, witness the results of those "participation trophies" handed out to those kids younger than us, just for showing up. They began feeling like they earned the trophy without needing to have played the game, all it took was a coach spending money to buy the reward. And that follows forward into this mindset that people have earned the BiS gear just by logging in, without needing to have played the game, all it takes is gold to buy the reward. Mollycoddling.

It's the I am a special little snowflake mommy mentality. Everyone gets a trophy and we don't keep score. This by far the easiest entry game I've ever played.minimal roles , very little teamwork required for most of the content. Minimal roles, no Tru CC or utility . All of it is secondary to a primary ability. Now this is not including v trials those are hard. But the other 99%of the game is ridiculous easy on the pve side.i am fine with BOE the player base churns so much there will always be sombody to buy my left overs. Taking it away only screws the endgame player that plays the game in longer increments

timidobserver · September 2016

Cryptical wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

Am I the only one here that I don't really mind with BOP itens? Its very simple, if you want the gear you need to run the content to get it, quite simple. It doesn't matter if you are a rich guild master of a big ass trade guild, if you want something, you need to run for it!

I actually prefer this way.

What if the content is the one you don't like at all?! Doing content to get the reward is fine, being forced into doing 1 type of content, not so much.

Nobody is forcing you to do crap. You want the award, you gotta participate. You want the heisman, you gotta put on the football gear. You want the gold medal for ski jump, gotta put on skis.

Your perspective is "I want the Stanley cup but I don't like hockey, waaaaaah! It's the BiS of cups and I neeeeeed it, waaaaah! Why should I be forced to do that content just to get my cup, waaaaah!!"

Ladies and gentlemen age 38ish and up, witness the results of those "participation trophies" handed out to those kids younger than us, just for showing up. They began feeling like they earned the trophy without needing to have played the game, all it took was a coach spending money to buy the reward. And that follows forward into this mindset that people have earned the BiS gear just by logging in, without needing to have played the game, all it takes is gold to buy the reward. Mollycoddling.

This change screws over the people that do participate more than those that don't. People that regularly do the highest level of content in the game will now get nothing out of it other than their 20th moondancer or infallible aether ring.

Reorx_Holybeard · September 2016

What I'd like to see is one set from each trial become BoE. So all the "good" trial sets are BoP but you have a chance to get a half-decent BoE set from trash/bosses in the trial for selling or whatever. Perhaps not as lucrative as everything being BoE but I think I see ZOS's point of having to do the content for the BiS gear.

Cryptical · September 2016

timidobserver wrote: »

This change screws over the people that do participate more than those that don't. People that regularly do the highest level of content in the game will now get nothing out of it other than their 20th moondancer or infallible aether ring

If the only reason they are doing it is to get paid, then they must be a terror to run with. All business, no fun.

It's a game. Have fun.

https://youtu.be/DKi-tpKSI4Y

old_mufasa · September 2016

Thing is hardly any game allows end game dungeon/raid gear to be sold in auction houses... because its becomes a monopoly of a very small portion of the player base... but.... the system does allow players that are unable through skill or time to be able to upgrade gear.. so its a double edged issue...

Roechacca · September 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

This is bad for everyone Elite players get rewarded with nothing, and new players will be left behind for being broke and not geared up. The only point in running trials will be for leader boards.

This game is finally amazing with all the updated trials to run, and they are going to ruin that!
The gap between the average player and a vet trial runner is millions of gold worth of gear and spellpower pots.
The gap is just going to get wider, and trials become more elitest.

What am I supposed to tell a guild memebers? to go pick flowers 40 hours before I can even consider them for vet?

Selling the a rare drop is what allows PVE players progress to the next level. This HUGE meta change will drive many players to other games.

Stop complaining no one is leaving because of this. Just another QQ post.

Humatiel · September 2016

Peekachu99 wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

You have to play the content to get the gear. What's the issue? You can also trade with anyone else in your party now. Also, a lot of the miscellaneous trial gear has been moved to overworld locations or delves.

I see no issue other than the uber rich 1% who are angry they can't sell their vendor purples anymore. Good, maybe the market can stabilize now to less insane prices.

Thats fair, let me explain the problem to you from a raider perspective.

repair costs = 1k
potions/food= ~8k
gems/repair kits=1k(long runs and such)

so we're looking at a 10k cost per run, now lets say I do 4 vet trials a week. So thats 40k/w = 160k per month. That means that for me to step into trials I am paying 160k per month and getting virtually nothing out of it.

Do a raid less and go get some gold from other places. They like people to do all the content and not just focus on one. So can't see how its ok to get it all from one type of content.

You're getting the challenge. That's what minmaxxers supposedly want. I do. I run vet RoM almost daily, often with pugs, cause I like getting them through the gauntlet. Risk should cost you money. And the reward of exclusive gear still exists. If you're relying on trials as your only source of income, there are dozens of far more lucrative, less intensive ways to make money in this game. Heck, I get 10k in the first 30m of a session just from doing writs on 4 toons. Plus, the chance for tempers etc., which are the only guaranteed source of money in this game. Especially with the intended changes ahead.

By that logic every death in pvp should degrade armor and end of the month rewards heh we dont need those, and every time you sell more X items in a guild store the house cut is higher, and for that matter every writ you do past your first character comes at a 50% loss of reward. Whoever said challenge shouldn't also equal reward was high as a kite and I want some of that.

I enjoy a challenge, I am absolutely one of those "welp we beat our heads against it for four hours...guess we need to come back tomorrow night" kind of players. What I do not enjoy though is doing that THEN doing something completely different to make money. I could understand if different pve content brought in cash besides trial because its still within the realm of pve, but when I have to completely change my style of play to sustain enough money to play then there is a fundamental problem.

Xjcon · September 2016

Cryptical wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

Am I the only one here that I don't really mind with BOP itens? Its very simple, if you want the gear you need to run the content to get it, quite simple. It doesn't matter if you are a rich guild master of a big ass trade guild, if you want something, you need to run for it!

I actually prefer this way.

What if the content is the one you don't like at all?! Doing content to get the reward is fine, being forced into doing 1 type of content, not so much.

Nobody is forcing you to do crap. You want the award, you gotta participate. You want the heisman, you gotta put on the football gear. You want the gold medal for ski jump, gotta put on skis.

Your perspective is "I want the Stanley cup but I don't like hockey, waaaaaah! It's the BiS of cups and I neeeeeed it, waaaaah! Why should I be forced to do that content just to get my cup, waaaaah!!"

Ladies and gentlemen age 38ish and up, witness the results of those "participation trophies" handed out to those kids younger than us, just for showing up. They began feeling like they earned the trophy without needing to have played the game, all it took was a coach spending money to buy the reward. And that follows forward into this mindset that people have earned the BiS gear just by logging in, without needing to have played the game, all it takes is gold to buy the reward. Mollycoddling.

Interesting point. The reason they give out participation trophy's is because the 38 and up whined about losing to much. See what I did there?

Not sure why anyone would want things BOP. I'm not going to miss out on gear. I'll farm it regardless. It's the majority of players who can't seem to farm things effectively who will lose out.

Right now some people profit from farming materials, some people profit from farming AP, some people profit from leveling up characters, and some people profit from selling gear they found in dungeon and trials. What's going to happen next is taking one of those away. The players who farm gear to sell it.

Let's not forget that with one tamriel there will suddenly be 100% of the players in the same zone farming. Materials will sky rocket. Enjoy.

KingYogi415 · September 2016

@Roechacca

I have been a huge supporter of all of ZOS's move's. Most of my comments are telling people to "stop crying about stam builds", and that game is better and more balanced then ever.

This economy meta change plus loot crates is enough for me to want to delete all my characters and find another hobby.

Hopefully they don't somehow completely ruin PVP in the next couple updates or this game will have nothing left for me soon.

Roechacca · September 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

@Roechacca

I have been a huge supporter of all of ZOS's move's. Most of my comments are telling people to "stop crying about stam builds", and that game is better and more balanced then ever.

This economy meta change plus loot crates is enough for me to want to delete all my characters and find another hobby.

Hopefully they don't somehow completely ruin PVP in the next couple updates or this game will have nothing left for me soon.

This change in where gear sets are available puts gear wanted by PvP players most, in easy to reach places for PvP players so they don't have to buy from dungeon farmers. Maybe you missed that somewhere.

MidknightWolf · September 2016

Bind on pickup for set gear and other legendary equipment is totally ok by me. It adds to the cost that craftable sets are worth, gives those with hard to get sets bragging rights, and adds a little challenge to PvE.

But it takes away from immersion, lore, and the realism ESO has been aimed at since it's incarnation. So if the only reason to disallow trading items is to keep the circulation low throughout the game, go ahead and leave it at bind on equip to the character, not the account. But allow us to trade everything if we choose before we go ahead and equip it.

KingYogi415 · September 2016

Roechacca wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

@Roechacca

I have been a huge supporter of all of ZOS's move's. Most of my comments are telling people to "stop crying about stam builds", and that game is better and more balanced then ever.

This economy meta change plus loot crates is enough for me to want to delete all my characters and find another hobby.

Hopefully they don't somehow completely ruin PVP in the next couple updates or this game will have nothing left for me soon.

This change in where gear sets are available puts gear wanted by PvP players most, in easy to reach places for PvP players so they don't have to buy from dungeon farmers. Maybe you missed that somewhere.

Which I'm fine with. But do you think though these pieces will be any cheaper? Look at the lich set when it first came out, cost 1 mill+ to run.

If people were less impatient they could have waited for the sun set pieces to fall into normal price range in a couple months.

The fact that not a single set is sell-able set will come from any end-game PVE is complete joke. The fact that salty pvper's can justify all PVE being crushed because one set was too expensive for them is depressing.