R.I.P. BOE in Trials and Dungeons

Docmandu · September 2016

You can probably make money by grouping people that AFK during the trial.

I really hate BoP in MMOs... it forces you to do certain content you don't like doing.. so much for "play the way you like to play".

There should be ways for everybody to earn / work for the gear they want.. I'm fine with trial gear being easier to obtain by doing the trial, but people that don't enjoy trials should have an option to obtain the gear too albeit at a slower pace. (same for other gear, like AP gear)

NoMoreChillies · September 2016

BIND ON PICKUP IS CANCER

Surak73 · September 2016

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

I think it is interesting thing that most of the sets that was in the trials were just cp 160 versions of sets that could be found in the overland just in lower levels. Now that your level depends on what gear level you get, it just make sense that you can get gear from overland at a higher level now. Since these gear sets were in most of the overland areas anyway.

Nope, it doesn't work. Or, at least, it works only with your first character, when you are building up your CP to 160. Then, when you are CP160, you are not scaled up anymore: if you go around naked, you have no bonus whatsoever, and if you wear a CP90 set, you will only have CP90 set bonuses.

IwakuraLain42 · September 2016

This is one of the stupidest thinks ZOS has done in last months (if it goes life). It's already hard enough to farm gear in the normal trials, considering the diluted loot table with useless traits like Prosperous or Training, but at least you could buy the "secondary" gear like Ebon or Hircine on the "free market" with perfect traits. In all my farming runs i've seen very few items with usable traits on this gear, and rarely any useful combination of the "primary" gear (like weapony or jewlery in useful combinations).

ZOS seems to have no idea how much time the non-elite player has at hand to actually farm the gear. Its already hard enough to organize 1-2 farm raids per gaming session, now try to imagine that to organize specific farming runs for select dungeons. All this will do is widen the gap between elite and non-elite players even more as it makes acquiring required gear even more impossible.

To give a glimpse into the future: I trying for few months now to farm one of the Orisinium BOP sets (Briarheart) (weapons & jewlery) by doing the dailies on 6 chars now. So far I've just collected one perfect piece of jewlery and one weapon.

The only way this might go well is to modify the loot table to remove useless traits like Prosperous or Training or at least double the chance for traits like Divines, Sturdy or Infused.

P3ZZL3 · September 2016

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

This is one of the stupidest thinks ZOS has done in last months (if it goes life). It's already hard enough to farm gear in the normal trials, considering the diluted loot table with useless traits like Prosperous or Training, but at least you could buy the "secondary" gear like Ebon or Hircine on the "free market" with perfect traits. In all my farming runs i've seen very few items with usable traits on this gear, and rarely any useful combination of the "primary" gear (like weapony or jewlery in useful combinations).

ZOS seems to have no idea how much time the non-elite player has at hand to actually farm the gear. Its already hard enough to organize 1-2 farm raids per gaming session, now try to imagine that to organize specific farming runs for select dungeons. All this will do is widen the gap between elite and non-elite players even more as it makes acquiring required gear even more impossible.

To give a glimpse into the future: I trying for few months now to farm one of the Orisinium BOP sets (Briarheart) (weapons & jewlery) by doing the dailies on 6 chars now. So far I've just collected one perfect piece of jewlery and one weapon.

The only way this might go well is to modify the loot table to remove useless traits like Prosperous or Training or at least double the chance for traits like Divines, Sturdy or Infused.

Weird. Night before last just opening chests around Hews Bane, I got 4 Briarheart Rings

IwakuraLain42 · September 2016

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Weird. Night before last just opening chests around Hews Bane, I got 4 Briarheart Rings

I assume you have 75 CP points into Treasure Hunter ? I'm considering creating a crap char just for opening treasure chest using that CP allocation ...
Because usually I rarely get anything useful out of these chests ...

stevepdodson_ESO888 · September 2016

Sharee wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

from The notes: "All set drops from dungeons and Trials are bind-on-pickup."

This is hands down the dumbest move I have seen ZOS make in over a year of playing this game. Effectively removing gold making opportunity in ALL of the end-game PVE content will be detrimental to this game.

What was detrimental for this game was the fact that many of the highly-desirable PvP sets were only dropping in trials that PvP players have no interest in running. That is what you were making gold on. ZOS moved those sets outside of trials. You can no longer charge 300K gold per piece for them. My PvP heart truly bleeds for you.

but the thing is there are still some PvP sets that are wanted by PvE players which can only be bought using AP (with those PvP players charging 300K gold per piece)...i wait to see your heart run out of blood

these sets should therefore be made available to buy for gold at an NPC shop

Tandor · September 2016

Lylith wrote: »

as someone said earlier in another thread, it seems more and more that players are being punished for playing this game.

I see it as the opposite, it's encouraging people to play the game rather than just logging in and buying what they want from the trader.

raidentenshu_ESO · September 2016

If I work my ass off by getting trial gear that I don't happen to want... I should be able to able to put it up for sale in the guild store to make some gold off of it so that I can afford to purchase the trial gear that I'm struggling to get from another player who does have it up for sale.

Why can't we make a living off of selling trial gear to people? What's wrong with that? Also whats wrong with donating looted trial gear to other guild members who wasn't able to attend the actual trial at the time?

BoP sucks,

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

For the love of cheese please get rid of the whole Bind on pickup system because it sucks royally.

IwakuraLain42 · September 2016

Tandor wrote: »

Lylith wrote: »

as someone said earlier in another thread, it seems more and more that players are being punished for playing this game.

I see it as the opposite, it's encouraging people to play the game rather than just logging in and buying what they want from the trader.

Have you actually tried to get together only one set with good traits ? I'm running the normal trails 1-2 per day (this is what most people can do on average) and I had buy two pieces for the Hircine set from traders because they didn't dropped in a usable trait. And don't even mention jewelry or stuff like Viscious Ophidian which is even harder to get.

If they really want to people to play the game to get stuff then they need to take a hard look at the current loot tables ...

Woeler · September 2016

I have four raid nights a week. Need pots, food repairs. How am I going to pay for that now @ZOS_Finn ?

ntheogenic · September 2016

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

To give a glimpse into the future: I trying for few months now to farm one of the Orisinium BOP sets (Briarheart) (weapons & jewlery) by doing the dailies on 6 chars now. So far I've just collected one perfect piece of jewlery and one weapon.

Not sure if this is going to make you happy (because you can now complete your set) or if it makes you angry (because farming it for month was pointless):

Briarheart as an "overland" drop will be BoE in Update 12.

IwakuraLain42 · September 2016

ntheogenic wrote: »

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

To give a glimpse into the future: I trying for few months now to farm one of the Orisinium BOP sets (Briarheart) (weapons & jewlery) by doing the dailies on 6 chars now. So far I've just collected one perfect piece of jewlery and one weapon.

Not sure if this is going to make you happy (because you can now complete your set) or if it makes you angry (because farming it for month was pointless):

Briarheart as an "overland" drop will be BoE in Update 12.

Happy of course, I still want to have that set. And please, remove that drop as "blue, CP150" nonsense ...
Haven't looked at the patch notes in detail, but I assume this drops in Orsinium ?

ntheogenic · September 2016

Woeler wrote: »

I have four raid nights a week. Need pots, food repairs. How am I going to pay for that now @ZOS_Finn ?

Those crown store gamble boxes coming with update 12... what exactly was in them again?

ntheogenic · September 2016

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

ntheogenic wrote: »

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

To give a glimpse into the future: I trying for few months now to farm one of the Orisinium BOP sets (Briarheart) (weapons & jewlery) by doing the dailies on 6 chars now. So far I've just collected one perfect piece of jewlery and one weapon.

Not sure if this is going to make you happy (because you can now complete your set) or if it makes you angry (because farming it for month was pointless):

Briarheart as an "overland" drop will be BoE in Update 12.

Happy of course, I still want to have that set. And please, remove that drop as "blue, CP150" nonsense ...
Haven't looked at the patch notes in detail, but I assume this drops in Orsinium ?

Yup:
Wrothgar: Trinimac’s Valor, Briarheart, Mark of the Pariah

Woeler · September 2016

ntheogenic wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

I have four raid nights a week. Need pots, food repairs. How am I going to pay for that now @ZOS_Finn ?

Those crown store gamble boxes coming with update 12... what exactly was in them again?

Foods with stats worse than crafted foods, not even spellpower pots or weapon power pots, just cheap worse than crafted tri-pots. Yea man, totally something someone from one of the top raiding guilds is going to use.

Asardes · September 2016

In recent weeks I've seen even normal, dungeon dropped pots increase in value. For example a few weeks ago essence of stamina was selling for 700-750 gold/stack of 100, now it's 1000-1100. Essence of magicka has seen an even bigger increase, from around 1600 gold/stack for 100 to 3000-3200. Not that I'm unhappy about it, because I pick those up and sell them. I haven't even looked at the crafted pots, like tri-pots, weapon/spell power/crit, immovability. Those were like 180-250 gold per shot even before, but I reckon that they have increased in value as well. Tempers, even base mats have increased in price as well, not to mention plants for crafting pots.

If all prices increase, there is probably a gold source not fully compensated by gold sinks. Most likely people farming gold which eventually comes in the market. I guess probably selling stolen items with full ledgermain and thieves guild passives is a likely candidate.

Guild store transactions have a built in 7% tax witch is a gold sink in itself. Most expensive items sold on guild stores are exactly the set pieces which ZOS wants to make BoP. If those are not traded anymore, gold will stop circulating in the game economy, the people who farm those sets will be able to only trade it within the group, for free or for money they had to get elsewhere beforehand. So the gold sink from that tax will get smaller without any mitigation to the gold source. In fact, if the quality of stolen items will increase based on ledgermain skill, and thus their price at which they are sold to fences, the problem will get even worse, supply side.

IMO they should make sets that are currently BoP BoE as well. Like SPC in VWGT. I've ended up deconstructing countless divines sashes, because I've already got them, but never got the epaulets. Which is probably true for many players out there, with different slots. If they make everything BoE the economy will get healthier again, instead of the rampant inflation we are seeing now. Trial teams will get their pots, plant farmers and potion brewers will get their gold, and PvP-ers will get their sets. And in the end everybody will be happy, without being starving millionaires.

Lord_Eomer · September 2016

So eventually you will get set from trial then no reason to run same trial (which seems pretty dead). As currenrly players still visit so they can sell .

Lava_Croft · September 2016

Only took ZOS nearly 2.5 years to make this change?

Too bad it's the complete opposite of what the community has been asking for.

Transairion · September 2016

From the looks of it, there was a big reason for this change:

Item Set Drop Locations
Many drop locations for Item Sets have been changed. Below are the locations for all existing and new Item Sets (generally listed in Light/Medium/Heavy order when applicable).

Trials
•Aetherian Archive: Healing Mage, Quick Serpent, Defending Warrior
•Hel Ra Citadel: Destruction Mage, Poisonous Serpent, Berserking Warrior
•Maw of Lorkhaj: Twilight Remedy, Moondancer, Roar of Alkosh, Lunar Bastion
•Sanctum Ophidia: Wise Mage, Twice-Fanged Serpent, Immortal Warrior
•Aetherian Archive / Hel Ra Citadel / Sanctum Ophidia: Infallible Mage, Vicious Serpent, Eternal Warrior

The only sets that WILL drop in Trials at all anymore are the BOP sets. Nothing else.

Necropotence, Silks of the Sun etc have all been moved to Overland drops. Highlighted below are all the Trial sets I remember that currently drop, but won't drop from Trails anymore in Update 12:

Overland
•Alik’r Desert: Robes of the Withered Hand, Sword-Singer, Order of Diagna
•Auridon: Queen’s Elegance, Twin Sisters, Armor of the Veiled Heritance
•Bangkorai: Vampire Lord, Spriggan’s Thorns, Seventh Legion Brute
•Coldharbour: Prisoner’s Rags, Stygian, Meridia’s Blessing Armor
•Craglorn: Way of Martial Knowledge, Way of Air, Way of Fire
•Deshaan: Mother’s Sorrow, Night Mother’s Embrace, Plague Doctor
•Eastmarch: Stendarr’s Embrace, Fiord’s Legacy, Akaviri Dragonguard
•Glenumbra: Bloodthorn’s Touch, Hide of the Werewolf, Wyrd Tree’s Blessing
•Gold Coast: Sithis’ Touch, Flanking Strategist, Hide of Morihaus
•Grahtwood: Shadow Dancer’s Raiment, Wilderqueen’s Arch, Beekeeper’s Gear
•Greenshade: Syrabane’s Grip, Ranger’s Gait, Green Pact
•Hew’s Bane: Bahraha’s Curse, Syvarra’s Scales
•Malabal Tor: Spinner’s Garments, Salvation, Thunderbug’s Carapace
•Reaper’s March: Skooma Smuggler, Senche’s Bite, Soulshine
•Rivenspire: Necropotence, Darkstride, Vampire Cloak
•Shadowfen: Robes of the Hist, Swamp Raider, Hatchling’s Shell
•Starter Areas (Khenarthi’s Roost / Stros M’kai, Betnikh / Bleakrock Isle, Bal Foyen): Armor of the Trainee
•Stonefalls: Silks of the Sun, Coat of the Red Mountain, Shalk Exoskeleton
•Stormhaven: Dreamer’s Mantle, Night Terror, Storm Knight’s Plate
•The Rift: Ysgramor’s Birthright, Witchman Armor, Draugr’s Heritage
•Wrothgar: Trinimac’s Valor, Briarheart, Mark of the Pariah

You can make your own judgements but it seems kind of obvious why they don't want Infalliable Mage to be BoE on every guild trader, yeah? What I wonder is how the heck to get gold Necropotence/etc jewelry...

Peekachu99 · September 2016

You have to play the content to get the gear. What's the issue? You can also trade with anyone else in your party now. Also, a lot of the miscellaneous trial gear has been moved to overworld locations or delves.

I see no issue other than the uber rich 1% who are angry they can't sell their vendor purples anymore. Good, maybe the market can stabilize now to less insane prices.

kongkim · September 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

from The notes: "All set drops from dungeons and Trials are bind-on-pickup."

This is hands down the dumbest move I have seen ZOS make in over a year of playing this game. Effectively removing gold making opportunity in ALL of the end-game PVE content will be detrimental to this game.

I thought PVE was the bread and butter of this game, this complete lack of understanding of the basics of MMO's on zenimax's part is mind-blowing.

I personally have been building my guild roster to teach new people all the normal trials. I have around 100 pieces of EBON, WORM, Elegant, and skirmisher gear saved to give to new players to help them with their progression. As of yesterday I have had to post everything as quickly and as cheaply as I can in fear of millions of gold worth of gear being bound to my account.

I'm planning on building a vet team from scratch, I have all ready set aside a million gold for Weapon/Spellpower pots which WILL COVER 1 TEAM learning vet. Now I question how willing I will be to keep training new players trials when i'm to broke to upgrade a new gear set to gold. Why does an elite player who has every set piece in gold want to run with us and help us? he gets nothing unless he wants to fleece people for BOP items.

Imagine if you made made every PVP set BOP, does that sound right???

Mix this into the picture:

"Survey Reports received from Crafting Writs may now send you to any zone throughout the world."

And we are looking at some very broke and unhappy trials players.

I hate to say it but it's seems to be paving a path to where they put gold in crown boxes, and the broke masses rejoice.

I would say cheers but, meh.

I think its ok. BOP is never cool. But as they said at PEX.
The only thing it do is adding an insane amount of gold in the top players pockets and keeping other players from ever doing the contest as they can just buy the items.
Its not that weird that they like more people to play their content and close the huge gab between the amount of gold people make.

AzuraKin · September 2016

its ok, next step zos gonna do is get rid of guild stores and put in a universal npc market where you can sell items at x price and buy those items from store at x4 price. (if you want an example of a game that does this: wizard101)

Humatiel · September 2016

Peekachu99 wrote: »

You have to play the content to get the gear. What's the issue? You can also trade with anyone else in your party now. Also, a lot of the miscellaneous trial gear has been moved to overworld locations or delves.

I see no issue other than the uber rich 1% who are angry they can't sell their vendor purples anymore. Good, maybe the market can stabilize now to less insane prices.

Thats fair, let me explain the problem to you from a raider perspective.

repair costs = 1k
potions/food= ~8k
gems/repair kits=1k(long runs and such)

so we're looking at a 10k cost per run, now lets say I do 4 vet trials a week. So thats 40k/w = 160k per month. That means that for me to step into trials I am paying 160k per month and getting virtually nothing out of it.

kongkim · September 2016

Humatiel wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

You have to play the content to get the gear. What's the issue? You can also trade with anyone else in your party now. Also, a lot of the miscellaneous trial gear has been moved to overworld locations or delves.

I see no issue other than the uber rich 1% who are angry they can't sell their vendor purples anymore. Good, maybe the market can stabilize now to less insane prices.

Thats fair, let me explain the problem to you from a raider perspective.

repair costs = 1k
potions/food= ~8k
gems/repair kits=1k(long runs and such)

so we're looking at a 10k cost per run, now lets say I do 4 vet trials a week. So thats 40k/w = 160k per month. That means that for me to step into trials I am paying 160k per month and getting virtually nothing out of it.

Do a raid less and go get some gold from other places. They like people to do all the content and not just focus on one. So can't see how its ok to get it all from one type of content.

mitchtheelder · September 2016

Columbine goes for 1k after this patch. Lol

AmberLaTerra · September 2016

Trials will quickly become dead content if this remains, and vet dungeons dead content as well not far behind them. Not only is our ability to make money from trials being removed by this joke of everything BoP, but the best farming zones for flowers to make pots are now going to be shared by all alliances.

This means the cost of ingredients in raw gold or time farming is going to go up exponentially as 3 times the number of players will be trying to farm 1/3rd of the farming zones.

End game content will reach the point where it costs 100K a run and brings in nothing at all so no one will do it at all.

Mysticman · September 2016

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Weird. Night before last just opening chests around Hews Bane, I got 4 Briarheart Rings

I assume you have 75 CP points into Treasure Hunter ? I'm considering creating a crap char just for opening treasure chest using that CP allocation ...
Because usually I rarely get anything useful out of these chests ...

NM

Bryanonymous · September 2016

While it is easy to understand why some trophies would need to remain attached to one account, they are really doing too much. I already feel like pledges are a waste of time once I get the Undaunted perks, and now I will feel that way about trials too. Sorry, but I'm not going to grind every time the meta changes. Perhaps some players are cool with that, but I find it lame and pointless. This is just a sleezy way to force more repeats with less reward and incentive. So what now? Making millions in gold will mean we can afford potions and mats only? What else will there be to buy with all that gold if everything a player finds is bound? Bad decision to bind when hardly anyone even agrees with it. There is much more incentive to earn things I can actually sell, especially because I like to craft my own gear. Some of us are not min/max meta grinders, and this move only removes incentive so a few fanatic OCD players will be forced to repeat countless times if they want to have higher stats than everyone else. Please, just stop copying what every other MMO does, and treat this game like an RPG. The TES base are attached to the lore, not the grind.

Asardes · September 2016

Well, I tend to agree with people above in the sense that in a trial where there a lot of wipes the repair and consumable costs tend to escalate. So if everything becomes BoP running veteran trials becomes even less attractive from a financial standpoint to run than now. You can just run the normal mode to farm blue armor & weapons which you can just temper to purple/gold if it drops with good traits and run the vet mode just for gold/purple jewelry, which has a low probability to drop anyway, since it's shared with all slots. If less veteran trials are run, there will be less consumables to be consumed, less armor to be repaired at vendors. So another gold sink will get smaller. Which brings us again to the problem of inflation.

You can run normal trials with no pots and cheap blue bi-stat food without any issues. I ran all 3 trials in Craglorn this Saturday with a PuG, with the average CP around 400. Some of the people had barely 200. 2 of the trials I ran for the 1st time in my life - I had run nSO twice before with some guildies and they only gave me minimal chat directions. They took ~25 minutes each, there were no wipes. In fact hardly anyone died if I remember; in any case not more than 1-2 people at the same time. And I was the tank! Overall, I rate them on the same difficulty level as current non-DLC vet dungeons. There is a huge gap between normal and veteran trials. I'm sure the group I was in would have wiped for sure at the 1st boss in any of those trials in less than 1 minute. IMO they should be closer, so people can at least train in normal for the veteran version; if you ran the normal 4 dungeons they at least prepare you for the veteran ones in some regard. Currently some normal dungeons are even harder than the easiest veteran ones (ex. Blackheart Haven is harder than Vereran Wayrest Sewers).