Make Ameri... Err, Magicka great again!

Actually_Goku · September 2016

Heavy Armor ability base duration: 15 seconds, with duration increasing based on how many pieces of heavy you're wearing, or a break free cost reduction based on the same thing.

Medium Armor ability base duration: 23 SECONDS with either the option to remove and grant immunity to snares, or have the duration increased, both on top of the "20%" dodge chance.

Light Armor: here you go guys have a 6 second shield that absorbs magic oh but wait no1 uses magic because why would they lulz. Just cast another shield! Oh but wait the last one ran out already lulz. Just use Streak to escape seeing as your shields don't work, oh but wait we stealth nerfed sustain lulz no more streak and shields for you mister sorcy lulz.

Passives:

Evocation (light Armor) - reduce the cost of spells by 1/2/3% based on how many pieces of light armor you wear.

Wind Walker: as above with stamina, but ALSO increases stam recovery by 2/4% per piece of med armor

Actually_Goku · September 2016

I'm going to let someone else post the imbalance in passives, too.

juhasman · September 2016

Actually_Goku wrote: »

Heavy Armor ability base duration: 15 seconds, with duration increasing based on how many pieces of heavy you're wearing, or a break free cost reduction based on the same thing.

Medium Armor ability base duration: 23 SECONDS with either the option to remove and grant immunity to snares, or have the duration increased, both on top of the "20%" dodge chance.

Light Armor: here you go guys have a 6 second shield that absorbs magic oh but wait no1 uses magic because why would they lulz. Just cast another shield! Oh but wait the last one ran out already lulz. Just use Streak to escape seeing as your shields don't work, oh but wait we stealth nerfed sustain lulz no more streak and shields for you mister sorcy lulz.

Light armor shield now absorbs all types of dmg not just magic. You can stack hardened ward and harness magicka/dampen magic and have 2 shields that absorb over 20k of any dmg.

the_man_of_steal · September 2016

Zos needs to help mag user's sustain it is game breakingly bad.

Actually_Goku · September 2016

juhasman wrote: »

Actually_Goku wrote: »

Heavy Armor ability base duration: 15 seconds, with duration increasing based on how many pieces of heavy you're wearing, or a break free cost reduction based on the same thing.

Medium Armor ability base duration: 23 SECONDS with either the option to remove and grant immunity to snares, or have the duration increased, both on top of the "20%" dodge chance.

Light Armor: here you go guys have a 6 second shield that absorbs magic oh but wait no1 uses magic because why would they lulz. Just cast another shield! Oh but wait the last one ran out already lulz. Just use Streak to escape seeing as your shields don't work, oh but wait we stealth nerfed sustain lulz no more streak and shields for you mister sorcy lulz.

Light armor shield now absorbs all types of dmg not just magic. You can stack hardened ward and harness magicka/dampen magic and have 2 shields that absorb over 20k of any dmg.

In the meantime, I'm fighting a wrecking blow spammer who has immunity to stuns and dodge chance, while I'm too busy recasting my shields to even attack him in the first place. Feels good man.

DRXHarbinger · September 2016

You should use dampen magic anyway, it's a far better shield, everything hits too hard for harness to be worth while, one attack takes out the whole shield and you'll still be at a lot, only time I found it useful was against the dot on round 9 vma, it's slow and weak and gives you essentially unlimited magika if timed right, other than it's been a waste. dampen will still be around a 25k shield outside of cyro.

PurifedBladez · September 2016

Actually_Goku wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Actually_Goku wrote: »

Heavy Armor ability base duration: 15 seconds, with duration increasing based on how many pieces of heavy you're wearing, or a break free cost reduction based on the same thing.

Medium Armor ability base duration: 23 SECONDS with either the option to remove and grant immunity to snares, or have the duration increased, both on top of the "20%" dodge chance.

Light Armor: here you go guys have a 6 second shield that absorbs magic oh but wait no1 uses magic because why would they lulz. Just cast another shield! Oh but wait the last one ran out already lulz. Just use Streak to escape seeing as your shields don't work, oh but wait we stealth nerfed sustain lulz no more streak and shields for you mister sorcy lulz.

Light armor shield now absorbs all types of dmg not just magic. You can stack hardened ward and harness magicka/dampen magic and have 2 shields that absorb over 20k of any dmg.

In the meantime, I'm fighting a wrecking blow spammer who has immunity to stuns and dodge chance, while I'm too busy recasting my shields to even attack him in the first place. Feels good man.

Yeah and he's probably gonna wear out on your sheilds if you play him right.

I had a 1v1 with a magsorc last night and it was very competitive harder then most stam classes.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2016

And yet, from a defense perspective, a 100% shield is still much better than a dodge chance. The dodge chance should be longer if you want balance.

Actually_Goku · September 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

And yet, from a defense perspective, a 100% shield is still much better than a dodge chance. The dodge chance should be longer if you want balance.

Can't tell if serious

Vaoh · September 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

And yet, from a defense perspective, a 100% shield is still much better than a dodge chance. The dodge chance should be longer if you want balance.

elantaura · September 2016

I want an anti stam shield, I mean if there is not one of one type but one of the other -isn't it unbalanced? You can stop magic users in there tracks but stam has nothing I can think of to stop them the same.

Browiseth · September 2016

Actually_Goku wrote: »

Light Armor: here you go guys have a 6 second shield that absorbs magic

Someone hasn't done all their research oops. Annulment absorbs all damage heads up
Thread credibility -1

I agree evasion is amazing though

Knootewoot · September 2016

Actually_Goku wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Actually_Goku wrote: »

Heavy Armor ability base duration: 15 seconds, with duration increasing based on how many pieces of heavy you're wearing, or a break free cost reduction based on the same thing.

Medium Armor ability base duration: 23 SECONDS with either the option to remove and grant immunity to snares, or have the duration increased, both on top of the "20%" dodge chance.

Light Armor: here you go guys have a 6 second shield that absorbs magic oh but wait no1 uses magic because why would they lulz. Just cast another shield! Oh but wait the last one ran out already lulz. Just use Streak to escape seeing as your shields don't work, oh but wait we stealth nerfed sustain lulz no more streak and shields for you mister sorcy lulz.

Light armor shield now absorbs all types of dmg not just magic. You can stack hardened ward and harness magicka/dampen magic and have 2 shields that absorb over 20k of any dmg.

In the meantime, I'm fighting a wrecking blow spammer who has immunity to stuns and dodge chance, while I'm too busy recasting my shields to even attack him in the first place. Feels good man.

And he can just pop vigor too, while you have to switch to resto staff just get get the healing done.

lolo_01b16_ESO · September 2016

Actually_Goku wrote: »

Heavy Armor ability base duration: 15 seconds, with duration increasing based on how many pieces of heavy you're wearing, or a break free cost reduction based on the same thing.

Medium Armor ability base duration: 23 SECONDS with either the option to remove and grant immunity to snares, or have the duration increased, both on top of the "20%" dodge chance.

Light Armor: here you go guys have a 6 second shield that absorbs magic oh but wait no1 uses magic because why would they lulz. Just cast another shield! Oh but wait the last one ran out already lulz. Just use Streak to escape seeing as your shields don't work, oh but wait we stealth nerfed sustain lulz no more streak and shields for you mister sorcy lulz.

Passives:

Evocation (light Armor) - reduce the cost of spells by 1/2/3% based on how many pieces of light armor you wear.

Wind Walker: as above with stamina, but ALSO increases stam recovery by 2/4% per piece of med armor

While I agree that magicka and stamina isn't balanced for all classes and game aspects, it's about the worst skill that you can take to compare magicka and stamina (if you want to show an advantage for stam):
- if you use shuffle on a magicka build you will get 20% dodge chance + cleanse all snares. The only advantage that stam builds have is a short snare immunity.
- if you use harness on a stam build the shield is laughable since it scales linear with max magicka
- immovable is probably one of the most useless skills for most people. Every class has a way to get these armour buffs + some extra.

Totalitarian · September 2016

You say that Annulment is weak. Just wait until you take a 35k hit and survive. A stamina dps can't do that.

In PVE, stamina builds have to run Rally to have the kind of survivability that Annulment provides. A stamina user can't take a Molag Kena lighting wall (although why you're not rolling through one is in question) on his own.

I can run all vet dungeons (including HM) and normal trials with 16k health because of that shield.

I run a high sustain Seducer set, which nets me low max magicka, sitting at 39k with food, and that lets me whomp down a 19k shield

In addition, the animation of the ability is really nice, and lets you cancel it really easily, so putting up the shield takes a whole .1 seconds.

It's a very strong ability that any magicka build except Sorcerers should take.

idk · September 2016

@Actually_Goku

You lost me, I stopped reading when you said harness magika only lasted 6 seconds and only absorbed magik attaxks.

Harness Magika absorbs all damage and also gives back some magika she. Absorbing magik attaxks up to 3 times.

Harnes Magika also scales off max magika and is therefore moch stronger than any shield a stam user has.

Heavy armor immovable base duration for the immovable buff, the main reason to use it, is 6 seconds. No one in their right mind would use this skill for the damage resist buffs as their are much better means to get that.

Additionally, 3% cost reduction is many times stronger than 4% regen (and cost reduction is even better than %regen increase since last DLC. Additionally, look at the whole picture and cost reduction and regen is comperwble.

OP, I strongly suggest you read up on the skills and please compare items appropriately.

Thank you.

SirMewser · September 2016

juhasman wrote: »

Light armor shield now absorbs all types of dmg not just magic. You can stack hardened ward and harness magicka/dampen magic and have 2 shields that absorb over 20k of any dmg.

Hitting 10K DPS is not difficult. :Þ So you mean to say recasting defense and not put pressure on target? That is how you get yourself in a loophole and lose DPS. No good player needs this sort of utility for obvious reasons, so what does it really leave players with?

PurifedBladez wrote: »

Yeah and he's probably gonna wear out on your [shields] if you play him right.

I had a 1v1 with a magsorc last night and it was very competitive harder then most stam classes.

Sustaining is possible on a magic sorc clearly, but why do it when it is much easier on other classes (besides magic DK)? Just because you had a 1v1 on a single player does not define the quality of the class/skill as "okay", that is bias. You must realize there are many variables such as; you and your enemy's character setup, you and your enemy's actual skills, environmental factors, and quality of both/all players' connections at the time.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

And yet, from a defense perspective, a 100% shield is still much better than a dodge chance. The dodge chance should be longer if you want balance.

Dodge rolling gives a 100% chance to evade 100% damage for its duration, a shield can be broken far before it expires. For a magic based character stamina is a resource that is far too precious to be used for stamina based CC immunity abilities and to be frequently negating damage. Getting stunned for a split second with a shield (while I'm not sure why anyone would ever want to get hit, it's not like we are talking about a turn based game) would be enough time to make the magic based player lose their shield entirely and not deal any damage back.

idk · September 2016

SirMewser wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Light armor shield now absorbs all types of dmg not just magic. You can stack hardened ward and harness magicka/dampen magic and have 2 shields that absorb over 20k of any dmg.

Hitting 10K DPS is not difficult. :Þ So you mean to say recasting defense and not put pressure on target? That is how you get yourself in a loophole and lose DPS. No good player needs this sort of utility for obvious reasons, so what does it really leave players with?

PurifedBladez wrote: »

Yeah and he's probably gonna wear out on your [shields] if you play him right.

I had a 1v1 with a magsorc last night and it was very competitive harder then most stam classes.

Sustaining is possible on a magic sorc clearly, but why do it when it is much easier on other classes (besides magic DK)? Just because you had a 1v1 on a single player does not define the quality of the class/skill as "okay", that is bias. You must realize there are many variables such as; you and your enemy's character setup, you and your enemy's actual skills, environmental factors, and quality of both/all players' connections at the time.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

And yet, from a defense perspective, a 100% shield is still much better than a dodge chance. The dodge chance should be longer if you want balance.

Dodge rolling gives a 100% chance to evade 100% damage for its duration, a shield can be broken far before it expires. For a magic based character stamina is a resource that is far too precious to be used for stamina based CC immunity abilities and to be frequently negating damage. Getting stunned for a split second with a shield (while I'm not sure why anyone would ever want to get hit, it's not like we are talking about a turn based game) would be enough time to make the magic based player lose their shield entirely and not deal any damage back.

@SirMewser

1. Shield stacking has been a strat for a long time. It's why they reduced the length of time for magika shields so we had to make a choice between offense and defense. Still, there are times having a shield is good. 10k dps is not easy. It's a joke. Spamikg heavy attacks us probably higher.

2. Have no idea what your really trying to say since your comments do not seem germain to what you quoted.

3. He talking about dodge chance/major evasion. Not dodge roll. His comments are related to the OP.

SirMewser · September 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@SirMewser

1. Shield stacking has been a strat for a long time. It's why they reduced the length of time for magika shields so we had to make a choice between offense and defense. Still, there are times having a shield is good. 10k dps is not easy. It's a joke. Spamikg heavy attacks us probably higher.

Reducing the duration has not done anything as people were always casting shields more often than 20 seconds in pvp. Don't neglect the fact that battle spirit has already halved the strength of wards, so maybe major evasion should be halved for its duration and magnitude along with every other skill in the game? No, halving every aspect to a skill is a lousy solution, let's face it.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

2. Have no idea what your really trying to say since your comments do not seem germain to what you quoted.

Then clearly you are not reading it, I even bolded the segment of the comment that I am specifically talking about. I am not sure how much more simple I could have made the comment as it seems like basic English, sorry.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

3. He talking about dodge chance/major evasion. Not dodge roll. His comments are related to the OP.

I am aware of that, but stamina players are more opt to dodge roll on top of the 20% major evasion, which makes any decent stamina player capable of negating all damage, whereas magic based builds tend to preserve stamina for when they need to CC break. The point was that stamina is rarely used for utility for magic based players. He wants to talk about the defensive perspective so really what is this "100% shield"? Sounds like dodge rolling.

I apologize that my view is holistic, because realistically this conversation is about "Err, Magicka great again!" as it is referring to the imbalance of stamina and magic.

Please don't compromise these comment as I am only pointing out to other aspects of the game that need to be considered and compared to as OP did for this to be a constructive topic. Do you really think devs will change anything if we don't show understanding of the whole problem? I certainly hope not, so stop.

I want this game to get better and I am getting the wrong impression from you.

Thanks sweetie.

incite · September 2016

buff light armor, it's that simple

ParaNostram · September 2016

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

And yet, from a defense perspective, a 100% shield is still much better than a dodge chance. The dodge chance should be longer if you want balance.

Translation - "I didn't oneshot that sorc that one time and I'm still mad about it."

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2016

Actually_Goku wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

And yet, from a defense perspective, a 100% shield is still much better than a dodge chance. The dodge chance should be longer if you want balance.

Can't tell if serious

Oh I am dead serious. I am not suggesting that they should increase the length of evasion longer than it currently is. What I am suggesting is the the length of a dodge chance that mitigates 20% of damage should be a longer duration than a skill that mitigates all damage up to a certain amount if your are trying to balance those two skills with one another.

End of the day, a shield is a better Oh Crap button, and Evasion is a better press and forget button. Furthermore, these skills arent the problem when it comes to balancing Stam and Magic. Harness Magic is insanely powerful if used correctly.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2016

SirMewser wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Light armor shield now absorbs all types of dmg not just magic. You can stack hardened ward and harness magicka/dampen magic and have 2 shields that absorb over 20k of any dmg.

Hitting 10K DPS is not difficult. :Þ So you mean to say recasting defense and not put pressure on target? That is how you get yourself in a loophole and lose DPS. No good player needs this sort of utility for obvious reasons, so what does it really leave players with?

PurifedBladez wrote: »

Yeah and he's probably gonna wear out on your [shields] if you play him right.

I had a 1v1 with a magsorc last night and it was very competitive harder then most stam classes.

Sustaining is possible on a magic sorc clearly, but why do it when it is much easier on other classes (besides magic DK)? Just because you had a 1v1 on a single player does not define the quality of the class/skill as "okay", that is bias. You must realize there are many variables such as; you and your enemy's character setup, you and your enemy's actual skills, environmental factors, and quality of both/all players' connections at the time.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

And yet, from a defense perspective, a 100% shield is still much better than a dodge chance. The dodge chance should be longer if you want balance.

Dodge rolling gives a 100% chance to evade 100% damage for its duration, a shield can be broken far before it expires. For a magic based character stamina is a resource that is far too precious to be used for stamina based CC immunity abilities and to be frequently negating damage. Getting stunned for a split second with a shield (while I'm not sure why anyone would ever want to get hit, it's not like we are talking about a turn based game) would be enough time to make the magic based player lose their shield entirely and not deal any damage back.

This thread was about annulment vs. evasion. Of course perma dodge rolling is an issue, but that is not what I thought we were talking about. If you are trying to balance a shield and a dodge chance, the shield should have a shorter duration.

Minno · September 2016

My personal order of priority for dmg mitigation:
Dodge> Dmg reduction >CP resistance with shields > armor >impen >

Stacking everything into one is fine and for certain builds it might excel, but these stats do different things.

If an attack is dodgeable you have a 20% chance to negate it completely. Very strong but channels negate dodge roll.

8% reduced incoming damage means that 10k incapable strike just became 9200. On its own it's pitiful, but let's keep going.

Shields are wonderful for burst dmg. Assuming we continue with our calc, the 9200 gets reduced first by CP mitigation. I can get 20% reduction easily, so 9200 becomes 7360. This hits you for non crit always with a shield so there's residual dmg or spill. If I have a 5000 shield, the dmg now becomes 2360.

Assuming 17k armor penetration hits you, but you had 30k armor, youll now have 13,000 armor raiting which equates to around 19.69% dmg mitigation. Now take 2360 incap strike dmg times 19.69% will give us 1895.

This 1895 has a chance to crit. I can't remember the calc for that but your toon always has a chance to do double dmg. Impen helps reduce the modifier on additional crit Dmg. That 1895 could become 3790 or higher.

So from 10k tooltip, we went to 3790. Unless you have a high dmg gank build or high mobility, please diversify on those mitigations!

Edit:
Here's the full equation for armor mitigation with numbers input to provide an example of 33k resistance negating penetration entirely:

Mitigation % = (35000 Spell resistance – 5280 Major Breach)*(1-0.14 Sharpened)/660 – 4984 Focus/660 – 0.12*10 Spell Erosion

Edit#2:

Base block removes dmg in half. With shield passives and as a DK you can reach 88% dmg reduction. This plus shields usually helps keep you alive. Though DOTS go through block.

Shadowshire · September 2016

juhasman wrote: »

Light armor shield now absorbs all types of dmg not just magic. You can stack hardened ward and harness magicka/dampen magic and have 2 shields that absorb over 20k of any dmg.

What's your point? You cannot cast them simultaneously, only one after the other, and each one lasts only six seconds. Since the minimum global cooldown after a spell is cast is one second, the most that a PC might get is 5 seconds of "over 20K of any dmg (sic)". I wouldn't bet that you can get that total, though.

There is no documentation as to whether damage is absorbed by the first one that is cast until accumulated damage reaches its limit (or it expires), then damage is absorbed by the second one that is cast until accumulated damage reaches its limit (or it expires). It would not surprise me at all if both shields are treated separately, and each one absorbs the same amount of damage from each and every attack until the accumulated damage reaches the limit for each respective shield (or the shield expires).

Each of these two shields should last at least 12 - 24 seconds or until all of the damage that each one can absorb has been absorbed, and they should stack so that damage is absorbed by the first one cast until its limit is reached (or the shield expires), then damage is absorbed by the next shield until its limit is reached (or it expires).

The ZO obsession for making everything sorcerer last just 6 seconds makes me wonder whether the lead designer for this class needs to get a six-pack and take his or her favorite six-partner to Motel 6.

Actually_Goku · September 2016

Shadowshire wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Light armor shield now absorbs all types of dmg not just magic. You can stack hardened ward and harness magicka/dampen magic and have 2 shields that absorb over 20k of any dmg.

What's your point? You cannot cast them simultaneously, only one after the other, and each one lasts only six seconds. Since the minimum global cooldown after a spell is cast is one second, the most that a PC might get is 5 seconds of "over 20K of any dmg (sic)". I wouldn't bet that you can get that total, though.

There is no documentation as to whether damage is absorbed by the first one that is cast until accumulated damage reaches its limit (or it expires), then damage is absorbed by the second one that is cast until accumulated damage reaches its limit (or it expires). It would not surprise me at all if both shields are treated separately, and each one absorbs the same amount of damage from each and every attack until the accumulated damage reaches the limit for each respective shield (or the shield expires).

Each of these two shields should last at least 12 - 24 seconds or until all of the damage that each one can absorb has been absorbed, and they should stack so that damage is absorbed by the first one cast until its limit is reached (or the shield expires), then damage is absorbed by the next shield until its limit is reached (or it expires).

The ZO obsession for making everything sorcerer last just 6 seconds makes me wonder whether the lead designer for this class needs to get a six-pack and take his or her favorite six-partner to Motel 6.

Best post of the thread!

jhharvest · September 2016

Shadowshire wrote: »

There is no documentation as to whether damage is absorbed by the first one that is cast until accumulated damage reaches its limit (or it expires), then damage is absorbed by the second one that is cast until accumulated damage reaches its limit (or it expires). It would not surprise me at all if both shields are treated separately, and each one absorbs the same amount of damage from each and every attack until the accumulated damage reaches the limit for each respective shield (or the shield expires).

I'm pretty sure it's first in, first out. You cast Hardened first, then Healing ward; Healing ward won't get touched until your Hardened is down.

In the same breath, I think shield stacking is a ridiculous mechanic and they should have removed it instead of nerfing shield duration.

alephthiago · September 2016

For me shield stacking should be a sorc thing only while other magicka classes should use another type of defensive ability

Alucardo · September 2016

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

Zos needs to help mag user's sustain it is game breakingly bad.

This. The main reason I never really ran light armor on my DK was because DK abilities are expensive as hell. I tried both setups, and I had way better sustain wearing 5 HA and 2 light, while still retaining 2k regen. The extra health, base mitigation, healing received and damage when I was getting hit also helped, a lot.
I'm totally fine with the armor abilities, especially since the LA one now shields against magic AND physical, but I just wish there was better sustain for magicka in general.
Having said that, I was ok playing magblade because siphoning attacks is op as balls.

FearlessOne_2014 · September 2016

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

Zos needs to help mag user's sustain it is game breakingly bad.

Every so often I log in to ESO now. I feed all 11 of my mounts first mount is maxed. Then after 20 minutes or so, personally log out in utter disgust. At what ZOS did to my play style in RPGs since vanilla Runescape. Nuke doesn't even start to describe how neutered the Ranged Caster playstyle is in ESO at moment.( It more like ZOS just glassed this playstyle at of the blue. Needlessly to say but meh, I've nearly moved on.

Mr_Nobody · September 2016

i am actually thankful to this thread since i thought that shield also still absorbs magicka only.

Come on here stamina sorcs and veli/viper abusers. come on, cya in the evening.