Forsakiin wrote: »

I have nothing against people with this attitude. I'm only CP 260 which is considered pretty low these days, and I get kicked often in group finder whenever others pair up with me. But even though I've did most of the hard content in the game many times, I can't feel frustrated at them because I have been on the other side of the coin too. Just today I used the group finder to get a group for vWGT. I was matched with a 300 CP tank and dps, then the last guy to come in was a 150 CP dps. When I saw him join I instantly thought "we won't do this", and all I wanted to do was to vote to kick him, but I just left it alone and took my chances as I desperately needed to farm SPC. Sure enough we come to the Adjudicator and he gets one shot consistently by her 3-wave ground attack. To make matters worse when he gets sent into a cell he doesn't even have any lockpicks. The rest of us got through the boss by ourselves, as well as the second boss, but after that I just left the group because coming up against Planar Inhibitor would have been a guaranteed nightmare.

I probably have better stats than a lot of CP 531+ players, but if you match up with me and want to kick me because of your assumption that I'm sub-par due to my low CP, *** go for it man. I respect the pain and frustration that comes with playing with someone that is not up to the task. Not everyone has unlimited patience and nobody owes inexperienced players anything. It's great that there are people who enjoy helping and teaching others, but don't begrudge people that don't want to do this.

Also, I'm not saying that all low CP players are trash, of course there are many exceptions. My point is that if all high CP players tolerated having lower CP players in their groups, lets just say that they would be spending A LOT more time in dungeons/trials.

Forsakiin wrote: »

I agree, however simply kicking someone or removing yourself from a group is hardly being toxic.

Forsakiin wrote: »

karldavy149b16_ESO wrote: »

Forsakiin wrote: »

I have nothing against people with this attitude. I'm only CP 260 which is considered pretty low these days, and I get kicked often in group finder whenever others pair up with me. But even though I've did most of the hard content in the game many times, I can't feel frustrated at them because I have been on the other side of the coin too. Just today I used the group finder to get a group for vWGT. I was matched with a 300 CP tank and dps, then the last guy to come in was a 150 CP dps. When I saw him join I instantly thought "we won't do this", and all I wanted to do was to vote to kick him, but I just left it alone and took my chances as I desperately needed to farm SPC. Sure enough we come to the Adjudicator and he gets one shot consistently by her 3-wave ground attack. To make matters worse when he gets sent into a cell he doesn't even have any lockpicks. The rest of us got through the boss by ourselves, as well as the second boss, but after that I just left the group because coming up against Planar Inhibitor would have been a guaranteed nightmare.

I probably have better stats than a lot of CP 531+ players, but if you match up with me and want to kick me because of your assumption that I'm sub-par due to my low CP, *** go for it man. I respect the pain and frustration that comes with playing with someone that is not up to the task. Not everyone has unlimited patience and nobody owes inexperienced players anything. It's great that there are people who enjoy helping and teaching others, but don't begrudge people that don't want to do this.

Also, I'm not saying that all low CP players are trash, of course there are many exceptions. My point is that if all high CP players tolerated having lower CP players in their groups, lets just say that they would be spending A LOT more time in dungeons/trials.

so when i first cleared vwgt on my second account @ cp 90 scalled to 160 u would have instantly assumed it was a fail group . that is what i mean ... this hole cp lvl is getting crazy especially with the planned 30 cp increase with every new expansion (insider source) eventually new players are going to be so far behind in cp that no one will want to group ... and they wont get the experience you forget we all started with 0 and at some point some one gave us all a chance to learn the hole hell his cp is to low vote to kick is a toxic enviroment that will only result in a dwindling population


altho the new planned dlc pledge should be better i feel on my second account ive been subjected to some very toxic enviroments created around the cp ... i remember getting in to a vet darkshade group the tank yelling at me i better know what the *** to do i replied well we sure as hell dont need a tank in here but sneak behind the crate ... he did and well what followed was a simple yes you do ... now i get that players can be *** and pretty small ones at that im not saying that all people experience what i have what i am saying is if a new player was subjected to some of the stuff i have on my second account they they would most likely be uninstalling ...

if a player trolls you eso say you have the right to ignore them ... but what happens if your getting trolled on the reguler because of your cp lvl surely you should have the right to hide your cp lvl

I don't like toxic people, and I don't encourage anyone to act in a toxic way. Abusing someone and using name calling towards their CP or whatever else is toxic and shouldn't be tolerated I agree, however simply kicking someone or removing yourself from a group is hardly being toxic. It would be if I kicked you and then messaged you saying something aggressive.

The problem with people on this issue is that they only look at it from their point of view. Since they are the ones being affected it becomes troublesome for them and they think that it is a must fix problem. But why don't you look at it from the other end. One inexperienced/under-levelled player is enough in certain dungeons/trials to make it drag on longer and longer, or maybe even make it undo-able. Why should high CPers who have most likely repeated these dungeons/trials many times (I say "most likely" because some 531+ players can be really bad too) have to tolerate this? Is it in the terms and conditions of ESO for every player to forcefully help others who don't know what they're doing? I said in my other post that there are definitely exceptions to this. You may be an exception, and despite your low CP you can fit in perfectly with CP 531 players and heal/tank/dps well. However, for every 1 of you there is, there are 10 more people at the same level that come after that are completely unfit for certain PVE content. This is why some people don't even bother to group with low CP players, because at the end of the day it can become really inefficient in terms of time for them.

I am not one of these big CP 531 players with maxed gear. Like I said I am only CP 260, a number which is considered low by these types of people. I get kicked as much as the next guy, the difference is that I don't get salty about it because I can understand it. Everyone starts at 0 yes, but you are acting as if it's impossible to learn and improve without the help of high CP players. You could... y'know... play with people similar to your CP?

cynaes wrote: »

Why should the low level/low CP player be punished (with a 15 minute timeout) for being randomly assigned to some group of higher levels? Nothing is more frustrating (especially for new players) than finding a group with Group finder only to be kicked immediately.

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Nope I want to know if the one im playing with has just started to learn the ropes and is gonna waste my time with a lot of wipes or is he experienced.

Most people don't have 2 accounts and their CP is an indication of their experience in the game, though post cp300 I don't judge people just by their CP.

You still don't know tho but reality is this....some play one way and some play another, some grind, some do stories.

See here's the thing.....we don't see how much dmg someone does by skill, by weapon and how much the resist or block, how much stamina or magica they have based on a morph or not. How many skill points Rhett have and if the skill is leveled or not.

Again....CP tells you nothing valuable. If you're rating and deciding upon groups using cp as a filter......you making the wrong thing important.

This is an argument for more information, not less. Obviously CP's can only tell you how much someone has played the game, it tells nothing about how well someone has played the game. As the saying goes, practice makes perfect, but only if you're practicing right.

I think we should be able to inspect other players much after the fashion of Destiny, where you have an option pop up along with the others when pressing Start on someone to inspect their gear and skills and stats, and also an option to do so through the group menu and the death recap so you can see what an enemy was killing you with more specifically in greater detail.

I understand lots of people don't like that idea, but I see no good reason why. Having more stats like Dungeons completed per dungeons attempted would help mitigate the issue of players with low stats being told they're not good enough. Just have more stats that cover what you've accomplished so that there's something you can point to and say that while your character's Magic/Stamina/damage stats aren't what the other players were looking for you're still more than capable of doing what needs to be done.

The answer to this problem is always more player statistics, not less, knowing who you're playing with saves people the trouble of wasting their time on a group that doesn't have what it takes, which is entirely a good thing. If you find yourself lacking because other people don't think your stats are up to par, form your own group of people with stats more like yours, if you suceed you prove those picky people wrong, and if you fail you see for yourself that they were right to question your preparedness.

Some people will be more picky than others, but people have a right to be picky about the people they play with, and it would also help a lot with people wanting to help less skilled players by being able to see their builds and tell them what they're doing wrong without requiring that all the relevant information be related across chat.

I think it would help the game far more than it would hurt it, and frankly this game needs better communication with it's community about what works and what doesn't, and acceptance of the fact that you can't use whatever setup you want and expect success (and that you shouldn't be butthurt that people don't want to play with you if you don't know what you're doing). Having the ability for players to inspect each other goes both ways, with newer/less skilled/informed players looking at the players that kick ass and seeing exactly how they built their characters, and potentially getting much better themselves as a result of having more information to work with.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Adding one feature like inspect does not make this automatically just every other MMO, far from it, it's just one feature that wouldn't change things all that much since people already expect other players to use certain skills in end-game content and can see for themselves when that player is using different skills, this just simplifies matters and lets people know that information going into a group instead of waiting to see the group wipe horribly to know what people aren't doing that they should be.

And frankly it's ridiculous to question why I'm playing this over other MMOs, I'm an ES fan for one and absolutely loved Morrowind, and besides that it was and is the Alliance War that made me really want this game and keeps me playing it, you can't get anything like this PvP in any other game in existence.

I honestly fail to see how inspecting other players would change anything besides saving people the trouble of wiping to know that a group doesn't have what it takes, people are already making it mandatory for their teammates to have certain stats and skills and provide Screenshots sometimes as proof, inspecting just saves everyone a lot of time and effort. And there's nothing stopping less picky players from taking newer players under their wing, or for newer/less skilled/informed players playing together and seeing for themselves that they need better stats and skills and gear to be competent.

Believe me I'd love nothing more than for every underperforming skill to be buffed so that far more builds would be viable, but until such time as that happens there just isn't enough wiggle room for people to use whatever they want and be successful.

@Lucius_Aelius

The sentence and the paragraph is exactly the issue.
If you don't see this as a major problem then I gather why you don't see it as a problem.

Other than new vet content, if groups needs to see all this there are other major issues going on.
Remeber most content isn't new and pre CP so at cp 160 which most are, you don't need any of what you want.

Again it's not needed unless you want to do what you outline which is not a good thing and not good behaviors as these types of evaluations mak sense for guilds but then you really don't need it.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Adding one feature like inspect does not make this automatically just every other MMO, far from it, it's just one feature that wouldn't change things all that much since people already expect other players to use certain skills in end-game content and can see for themselves when that player is using different skills, this just simplifies matters and lets people know that information going into a group instead of waiting to see the group wipe horribly to know what people aren't doing that they should be.

And frankly it's ridiculous to question why I'm playing this over other MMOs, I'm an ES fan for one and absolutely loved Morrowind, and besides that it was and is the Alliance War that made me really want this game and keeps me playing it, you can't get anything like this PvP in any other game in existence.

I honestly fail to see how inspecting other players would change anything besides saving people the trouble of wiping to know that a group doesn't have what it takes, people are already making it mandatory for their teammates to have certain stats and skills and provide Screenshots sometimes as proof, inspecting just saves everyone a lot of time and effort. And there's nothing stopping less picky players from taking newer players under their wing, or for newer/less skilled/informed players playing together and seeing for themselves that they need better stats and skills and gear to be competent.

Believe me I'd love nothing more than for every underperforming skill to be buffed so that far more builds would be viable, but until such time as that happens there just isn't enough wiggle room for people to use whatever they want and be successful.

@Lucius_Aelius

The sentence and the paragraph is exactly the issue.
If you don't see this as a major problem then I gather why you don't see it as a problem.

Other than new vet content, if groups needs to see all this there are other major issues going on.
Remeber most content isn't new and pre CP so at cp 160 which most are, you don't need any of what you want.

Again it's not needed unless you want to do what you outline which is not a good thing and not good behaviors as these types of evaluations mak sense for guilds but then you really don't need it.

I exclusively run Dungeons through the group finder, and I can tell you for a fact that something needs to be done to better communicate to players what works and what doesn't since most groups have at least one person who doesn't have a clue what they're doing and often doesn't like being told they're doing it wrong. Far better for players to be able to inspect others by themselves to see what they're doing that's working so well and copy it, and also for better players to inspect others and be better able to tell them specifically what they're doing wrong if they're willing to hear it.

Honestly, like I said, nothing would really change except that people would be better informed all around and it would be easier for less skilled players to get better, and I fail to see how you can call that a bad thing.

@Lucius_Aelius
Have you considered finding a group of like minded people and joining their guild.
Manually forming your guild group and que?

There are many people, more than less, who really dislike what you're trying to force to the entire game.
As you describe, there are already ways to find out the info you want built in....so why does ZOS need to do anything?

Doesn't it make a whole heck of a lot more sense for you and those who want pre-set groups to play together and allow those who are open to random activities have random activity experiences?

It's literally not suppose to place you in a group with an ideal situation based on your expectations and three seperate others who more than likely have three different expectations as well.

People will not be better informed because this was the same argument that was made to why CP should be added.
Have you played other MMOs or online games where there is an inspect, or he's levels or some opportunity to inspect?

It solves nothing other than causing people to act elite and join, kick, disband, and troll other players.

There's never been a positive outcome because you're dealing with millions of different types of people from all over.