Auctionhouse

jedtb16_ESO · August 2016

Iselin wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

ZOS has stated multiple times that they do not want to add a global auction house.

Well I'm certainly not new around here but I can't remember the rationale any longer. Why don't they want to do it again? Remind me.

Also it seems to me that ZOS' willingness to flex with regards to sub model, B2P, how the cash shop works, sub benefits, PVE alliance locks, etc., makes revisiting things we think we know not completely pointless.

possible because with a distributed system the overhead is low. concentrate it in one place and the overhead would be off the scale.

k9mouse · August 2016

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

ZOS has stated multiple times that they do not want to add a global auction house.

Well I'm certainly not new around here but I can't remember the rationale any longer. Why don't they want to do it again? Remind me.

Also it seems to me that ZOS' willingness to flex with regards to sub model, B2P, how the cash shop works, sub benefits, PVE alliance locks, etc., makes revisiting things we think we know not completely pointless.

possible because with a distributed system the overhead is low. concentrate it in one place and the overhead would be off the scale.

That is the main complete about Zergs in Cyrodiil -- to many people in one place and often time with AOES-R-US everywhere. I see the lag complains on the forums in the city where the AH is located. So many people just standing around and check the AH every few secs. By Sithis, the lag will be so bad there!

silvereyes · August 2016

There's actually some pretty good ideas starting to take form over on another thread about a blended kiosk system:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/287119/proposed-guild-trader-changes#latest
If you want to help brainstorm a third option, please come contribute your ideas.

Iselin · August 2016

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

ZOS has stated multiple times that they do not want to add a global auction house.

Well I'm certainly not new around here but I can't remember the rationale any longer. Why don't they want to do it again? Remind me.

Also it seems to me that ZOS' willingness to flex with regards to sub model, B2P, how the cash shop works, sub benefits, PVE alliance locks, etc., makes revisiting things we think we know not completely pointless.

possible because with a distributed system the overhead is low. concentrate it in one place and the overhead would be off the scale.

Are you talking about the database requirements? GW2's system is multi-server and it works fine with a comparable population.It's not an insurmountable problem.

The original design here didn't even have guild trader kiosks. You could only buy within your guild or in Cyrodiil from a guild that claimed a keep. Buying from trading guilds you didn't belong to in rented locations came several months later.

I know they expressed some design principle reasons (not technical ones) about why they did it this way. I honestly just can't remember what those were

Iselin · August 2016

k9mouse wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

ZOS has stated multiple times that they do not want to add a global auction house.

Well I'm certainly not new around here but I can't remember the rationale any longer. Why don't they want to do it again? Remind me.

Also it seems to me that ZOS' willingness to flex with regards to sub model, B2P, how the cash shop works, sub benefits, PVE alliance locks, etc., makes revisiting things we think we know not completely pointless.

possible because with a distributed system the overhead is low. concentrate it in one place and the overhead would be off the scale.

That is the main complete about Zergs in Cyrodiil -- to many people in one place and often time with AOES-R-US everywhere. I see the lag complains on the forums in the city where the AH is located. So many people just standing around and check the AH every few secs. By Sithis, the lag will be so bad there!

You mean like all those people who now stand around the guild traders near the undaunted pledge givers?

Multiple access points in all cities would take care of any player clumping problems.

jedtb16_ESO · August 2016

Iselin wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

ZOS has stated multiple times that they do not want to add a global auction house.

Well I'm certainly not new around here but I can't remember the rationale any longer. Why don't they want to do it again? Remind me.

Also it seems to me that ZOS' willingness to flex with regards to sub model, B2P, how the cash shop works, sub benefits, PVE alliance locks, etc., makes revisiting things we think we know not completely pointless.

possible because with a distributed system the overhead is low. concentrate it in one place and the overhead would be off the scale.

That is the main complete about Zergs in Cyrodiil -- to many people in one place and often time with AOES-R-US everywhere. I see the lag complains on the forums in the city where the AH is located. So many people just standing around and check the AH every few secs. By Sithis, the lag will be so bad there!

You mean like all those people who now stand around the guild traders near the undaunted pledge givers?

Multiple access points in all cities would take care of any player clumping problems.

but not the central load

Kalifas · August 2016

People say the current is fine. When an economy system is still even being talked about or questioned almost three years into launch. You know something is wrong with it.

Iselin · August 2016

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

ZOS has stated multiple times that they do not want to add a global auction house.

Well I'm certainly not new around here but I can't remember the rationale any longer. Why don't they want to do it again? Remind me.

Also it seems to me that ZOS' willingness to flex with regards to sub model, B2P, how the cash shop works, sub benefits, PVE alliance locks, etc., makes revisiting things we think we know not completely pointless.

possible because with a distributed system the overhead is low. concentrate it in one place and the overhead would be off the scale.

That is the main complete about Zergs in Cyrodiil -- to many people in one place and often time with AOES-R-US everywhere. I see the lag complains on the forums in the city where the AH is located. So many people just standing around and check the AH every few secs. By Sithis, the lag will be so bad there!

You mean like all those people who now stand around the guild traders near the undaunted pledge givers?

Multiple access points in all cities would take care of any player clumping problems.

but not the central load

Well I've never heard ZOS cite technical challenges as the reason why they decided to do it without an AH. This is something forum posters speculate about.

jedtb16_ESO · August 2016

Iselin wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

ZOS has stated multiple times that they do not want to add a global auction house.

Well I'm certainly not new around here but I can't remember the rationale any longer. Why don't they want to do it again? Remind me.

Also it seems to me that ZOS' willingness to flex with regards to sub model, B2P, how the cash shop works, sub benefits, PVE alliance locks, etc., makes revisiting things we think we know not completely pointless.

possible because with a distributed system the overhead is low. concentrate it in one place and the overhead would be off the scale.

That is the main complete about Zergs in Cyrodiil -- to many people in one place and often time with AOES-R-US everywhere. I see the lag complains on the forums in the city where the AH is located. So many people just standing around and check the AH every few secs. By Sithis, the lag will be so bad there!

You mean like all those people who now stand around the guild traders near the undaunted pledge givers?

Multiple access points in all cities would take care of any player clumping problems.

but not the central load

Well I've never heard ZOS cite technical challenges as the reason why they decided to do it without an AH. This is something forum posters speculate about.

well, it's all just speculation isn't it?

biovitalb16_ESO · August 2016

Current system is fine, all they need to do is refine the search feature and it will be great.

SHADOW2KK · August 2016

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

Current system is fine, all they need to do is refine the search feature and it will be great.

Awesome Guild Store is your friend...

Cherryblossom · August 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Auction house is bad, traders are good.

See previous threads on this subject for deeper argumentation.

If Traders are good, why do they exclude the majority of players from selling to the community!

I'm yet to have anyone counter the argument that as there is only a finite number of traders, thus only set quantity of players (approx 70k) can sell to the community. This game is a case of have's and have nots, so whilst a minority of this 70K players can make a lucrative living by selling, the majority of the community are frozen out of selling completely.

I don't expect you to reply, just like every other person who is doing ok with the current system also fail to reply. But to say Traders are Good is simply not the case, at best they were a sticky plaster over the complete mess at launch, where at best you had only 2.5k people to sell too.....

@Nestor maybe you could ask ZOS to explain this? I'm not asking for an auction house as I don't believe its possible with how they set up the game, but the guild traders are not inclusive, there have been many suggestions over time to improve the way they work so they are more inclusive, but it seems ZOS as always has buried its head or just doesn't simply read any posts.

HeroUndying · August 2016

They should do an auction house, but put a tax on anything sold/bought. Let people trade tax free between guild mates, so there's still an incentive to join a big guild that likes to trade. I used to play GW2 and Neverwinter a lot and I rather enjoyed both auction houses, so maybe I'm a little biased. I like having to outbid people for ITEMS, not traders

Also, why not have an auction house for each zone so it's beneficial to still shop around. No real need for it to be centralized.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2016

Cherryblossom wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Auction house is bad, traders are good.

See previous threads on this subject for deeper argumentation.

If Traders are good, why do they exclude the majority of players from selling to the community!

I'm yet to have anyone counter the argument that as there is only a finite number of traders, thus only set quantity of players (approx 70k) can sell to the community. This game is a case of have's and have nots, so whilst a minority of this 70K players can make a lucrative living by selling, the majority of the community are frozen out of selling completely.

I don't expect you to reply, just like every other person who is doing ok with the current system also fail to reply. But to say Traders are Good is simply not the case, at best they were a sticky plaster over the complete mess at launch, where at best you had only 2.5k people to sell too.....

I'm sorry to disappoint you and prove again your speculations wrong, but I will reply.
Yes, the number of traders is limited. Yes, the number of players able to trade via those traders is therefore also limited, and obviously significantly lower than the number of players.

BUT... every week, you see traders unbid for. Every week, major guilds who have lost their main trader can bid for 100g on another trader because those traders have remained unbid for.
All the time, outside the main trading hubs, you stumble across guild traders with literally nothing in the shop, not even one page of listings.
It means that there are enough traders for the player population who actually wants to trade actively.

TL/DR : the number of spots in guild with a guild trader is limited and lower than the global player population, but it is significantly higher than the number of players actually willing to trade. As a result, nobody is excluded from trading. Another proof of this is how extremely easy it is to join a trading guild with an established trader.

Master_Fluff · August 2016

Why do so many players insist on calling a game-wide trader that all players can buy/sell at "auction house"? Auction means placing bids on items that are for sale. Highest bidder gets the item, everyone else do not. Plesae learn the proper meaning of words, thank you.

/rollseyes /facepalm /deepsigh

Ghost-Shot · August 2016

Guild traders are a cool idea in theory but in practice they are just a pain in the ass and make finding items you want very inconvenient.

idk · August 2016

Iselin wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

ZOS has stated multiple times that they do not want to add a global auction house.

Well I'm certainly not new around here but I can't remember the rationale any longer. Why don't they want to do it again? Remind me.

Also it seems to me that ZOS' willingness to flex with regards to sub model, B2P, how the cash shop works, sub benefits, PVE alliance locks, etc., makes revisiting things we think we know not completely pointless.

possible because with a distributed system the overhead is low. concentrate it in one place and the overhead would be off the scale.

That is the main complete about Zergs in Cyrodiil -- to many people in one place and often time with AOES-R-US everywhere. I see the lag complains on the forums in the city where the AH is located. So many people just standing around and check the AH every few secs. By Sithis, the lag will be so bad there!

You mean like all those people who now stand around the guild traders near the undaunted pledge givers?

Multiple access points in all cities would take care of any player clumping problems.

but not the central load

Well I've never heard ZOS cite technical challenges as the reason why they decided to do it without an AH. This is something forum posters speculate about.

Correct. It's obviously not a technical challenge. The guild trader system is more complex to begin with.

1. They like the social aspect, social networking via guild and others and it's not a stretch thei envisioned zone trading as that's a thing in any MMO.

2. That having separate traders, a decentralized system, prices would not deflate as fast ans as far which is absolutly correct. Values decline fast with a centralized system.

SHADOW2KK · August 2016

ulrik.igerupb16_ESO wrote: »

Why do so many players insist on calling a game-wide trader that all players can buy/sell at "auction house"? Auction means placing bids on items that are for sale. Highest bidder gets the item, everyone else do not. Plesae learn the proper meaning of words, thank you.

/rollseyes /facepalm /deepsigh

Tell me about it, why people want this "auction house" is beyond me, at least with guild traders, albeit a pain not getting the items your after in your own trade guilds, and having to travel half the planet to find stuff.

Still better than this "auction house" rubbish, at least when you find the item your after, and you got the gold, and have MM etc installed and know your pricing, you actually get your item.

AntMan100673 · August 2016

Cherryblossom wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Auction house is bad, traders are good.

See previous threads on this subject for deeper argumentation.

If Traders are good, why do they exclude the majority of players from selling to the community!

I'm yet to have anyone counter the argument that as there is only a finite number of traders, thus only set quantity of players (approx 70k) can sell to the community. This game is a case of have's and have nots, so whilst a minority of this 70K players can make a lucrative living by selling, the majority of the community are frozen out of selling completely.

I don't expect you to reply, just like every other person who is doing ok with the current system also fail to reply. But to say Traders are Good is simply not the case, at best they were a sticky plaster over the complete mess at launch, where at best you had only 2.5k people to sell too.....

@Nestor maybe you could ask ZOS to explain this? I'm not asking for an auction house as I don't believe its possible with how they set up the game, but the guild traders are not inclusive, there have been many suggestions over time to improve the way they work so they are more inclusive, but it seems ZOS as always has buried its head or just doesn't simply read any posts.

With the dlc's I believe the number of guild traders is around about the 200 mark, with a max of 500 in a guild this gives approx 100k spaces. As people can be in up to 5 guilds all with traders this could reduce the number of people able to list on guild traders down as low as 20k. While I agree with you this limiting factor could in theory exclude people as there are more players than available spaces, in practice most guilds with traders aren't full so the limiting factor is actually people not joining guilds with traders, for whatever reason. Eg. I'm on xbox EU and 4/5 of my guilds have traders, 1 is a trade guild with a mournehold trader and is full, the other 3 are at best half full (as they're not full I doubt there's been much housekeeping to remove no longer active players so they're probably even less full than the numbers on the roster show)

An auction house would be a terrible idea and would create far greater gaps between the haves and have nots imo.

Iselin · August 2016

ulrik.igerupb16_ESO wrote: »

Why do so many players insist on calling a game-wide trader that all players can buy/sell at "auction house"? Auction means placing bids on items that are for sale. Highest bidder gets the item, everyone else do not. Plesae learn the proper meaning of words, thank you.

/rollseyes /facepalm /deepsigh

Is this your first MMO? Players call it an Auction House because that is what WOW and other MMOs call it. Some of them even have NPCs simulating real world auction houses with a gavel in their hands etc. So the name stuck despite the technically incorrect mechanics.

Besides, WOW and others also do have an auction like functionality: you can either buy something immediately for the buy-out price if the poster decides to have one, or bid on it during a set time period and the highest bidder gets the item. But whether those mechanics exist or not, MMO players refer to those global marketplaces as Auction Houses regardless.

So emote away but you're just showing a lack of historical context.

Qbiken · August 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

It seems like you're fairly new around here so I'll try and be gentle: someone makes a thread like this every week. It tends to spawn sprawling discussions about every aspect of MMO economies, what works and what doesn't. Soon someone makes a poll or five and they all show that a slim majority of the forum community likes it as it is now.

ZOS has stated multiple times that they do not want to add a global auction house. Check out the guild recruitment forums and try to join a trading guild, it's really not all that difficult.

Alright everyone, have at it.

How to end a thread in a polite way

Wifeaggro13 · August 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

It seems like you're fairly new around here so I'll try and be gentle: someone makes a thread like this every week. It tends to spawn sprawling discussions about every aspect of MMO economies, what works and what doesn't. Soon someone makes a poll or five and they all show that a slim majority of the forum community likes it as it is now.

ZOS has stated multiple times that they do not want to add a global auction house. Check out the guild recruitment forums and try to join a trading guild, it's really not all that difficult.

Alright everyone, have at it.

Still does not take away the fact that purchasing anything or selling anything is a convoluted mess. 5 guilds really did not do anything to build strong communties. It does give you plenty of room to poach players for pick trials and 4 mans. And guild traders does provide hubs, but only in certain areas. The dungeon finder being so broken right now I have to have most guild slots full with PvE guilds to field dungeons and trials

Iselin · August 2016

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

It seems like you're fairly new around here so I'll try and be gentle: someone makes a thread like this every week. It tends to spawn sprawling discussions about every aspect of MMO economies, what works and what doesn't. Soon someone makes a poll or five and they all show that a slim majority of the forum community likes it as it is now.

ZOS has stated multiple times that they do not want to add a global auction house. Check out the guild recruitment forums and try to join a trading guild, it's really not all that difficult.

Alright everyone, have at it.

Still does not take away the fact that purchasing anything or selling anything is a convoluted mess. 5 guilds really did not do anything to build strong communties. It does give you plenty of room to poach players for pick trials and 4 mans. And guild traders does provide hubs, but only in certain areas. The dungeon finder being so broken right now I have to have most guild slots full with PvE guilds to field dungeons and trials

I agree. My only guilds that actually feel like a community are my PVP and PVE guilds. All 3 of my trading guilds are used just for weekly lotteries and MM price checks lol. But I suppose they do come in handy for porting to people in places I want to go.

clayandaudrey_ESO · August 2016

Qbiken wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

It seems like you're fairly new around here so I'll try and be gentle: someone makes a thread like this every week. It tends to spawn sprawling discussions about every aspect of MMO economies, what works and what doesn't. Soon someone makes a poll or five and they all show that a slim majority of the forum community likes it as it is now.

ZOS has stated multiple times that they do not want to add a global auction house. Check out the guild recruitment forums and try to join a trading guild, it's really not all that difficult.

Alright everyone, have at it.

How to end a thread in a polite way

If only it were that simple.

CromulentForumID · August 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

TL/DR : the number of spots in guild with a guild trader is limited and lower than the global player population, but it is significantly higher than the number of players actually willing to trade. As a result, nobody is excluded from trading. Another proof of this is how extremely easy it is to join a trading guild with an established trader.

This isn't proof of anything. This is a bad argument, and you should feel bad.

The are, I am sure, many dozens or hundreds of individuals who are very willing to trade. You actually feel like there are that many players out there who wouldn't want to sell their excess stuff for more than vendor price? Please.

The most you can say that they are not willing to do is jump through the hoops for:
1. Finding a guild to join
2. Finding a guild to join that they can afford
3. Finding a guild to join that regularly wins a trader stall
4. Finding a guild that they can meet the requirements for

You really can't handwave all of that with "It's EASY!" It's a good way to dismiss people who don't agree with you, but the above points are a barrier for players. Do you feel like reading the forums for guild openings is a reasonable barrier to being able to participate in the game economy in a meaningful way? How many build guild invites does one accept for guilds who do not get stalls before you can become legitimately discouraged with the system? Is it unwillingness or an unreasonable expectation to think you should be able to participate in the game's economy by just playing the game?

Again, the number of players willing to trade is a lot higher than the number of guild trader spots available. The number of players willing or able to deal with the current system is smaller than that number. That does not mean these players are not "actually willing to trade."

Empty trader spots are only proof that a number of those players out there have not managed to band together into a guild, found someone willing to lead that guild and deal with the "fun" of bidding, staying up for the changeover, and hopefully locating that one open spot after maintenance. Are you really stating that these players are "unwilling to actually trade" because they are not stepping up to form their own guilds to claim these empty stalls?

This is also very platform-specific. I have not seen any empty traders at all on PS4 NA. Bids for out of the way places are 500K a week. You honestly are going to try to say that anyone who can't find a good guild, that can consistently get a trader, in a good location - that's all just effort and laziness if you can't get it?

Please. It can be a reason. But you're absolutely, completely wrong if you feel like it's the only reason.

I have left three trade guilds that were really well-run, but just could not muster up enough donations per week to win bids. They tried a small fee per week, no one paid. They tried free and different locations, and also ended up losing week after week. Were all 1000 of those people unwilling to trade? Were those people unwilling one week, then willing the next? Are we going to say the guild leaders were lazy because they couldn't sit and wait out the maintenance times to try to find one of those out of the way places?

I know we won't get a centralized AH. I actually would fear for our items in the game if ZOS tried to implement one. We're stuck with the system we have. I just wish there were not so many garbage arguments defending the current system. They aren't all garbage, but the one I quoted certainly is one.

alexkdd99 · August 2016

Kalifas wrote: »

People say the current is fine. When an economy system is still even being talked about or questioned almost three years into launch. You know something is wrong with it.

Just because a few people don't agree or like something does not mean there is anything wrong with it. What you are saying only means people are to stubborn to realize they have no inclination to change the current system. If a large group of people did not like them and stopped using them it would probably get changed.

This conversation always goes around in circles saying the same thing every time. Like others that give support to an auction house in those threads I always give my support for the current system.

There are more ways to sell thing in this game than just guild traders. The traders add a whole new aspect to this game for people to enjoy. I like pretty much every part of this game. Some days I will go around to the less traveled traders looking for that perfect deal.

QuebraRegra · August 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

It seems like you're fairly new around here so I'll try and be gentle: someone makes a thread like this every week. It tends to spawn sprawling discussions about every aspect of MMO economies, what works and what doesn't. Soon someone makes a poll or five and they all show that a slim majority of the forum community likes it as it is now.

ZOS has stated multiple times that they do not want to add a global auction house. Check out the guild recruitment forums and try to join a trading guild, it's really not all that difficult.

Alright everyone, have at it.

well then ZOS is dumb... I know, it's a shocker. Ok ZOS, proceed with ignoring the overwhelming majority of the player base.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2016

CromulentForumID wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

TL/DR : the number of spots in guild with a guild trader is limited and lower than the global player population, but it is significantly higher than the number of players actually willing to trade. As a result, nobody is excluded from trading. Another proof of this is how extremely easy it is to join a trading guild with an established trader.

This isn't proof of anything. This is a bad argument, and you should feel bad.

.../...

They aren't all garbage, but the one I quoted certainly is one.

If you can't argue without insulting people and saying their argument is bad and garbage and they should feel bad... you should learn to be polite and comfort your arguments with valid explanations. Can't help you with that.
Everything you're mentioning relates to laziness from people and ultimately their lack of will to trade actively. They don't want to trade, they want to get rid of their excess stuff... that's entirely different.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2016

QuebraRegra wrote: »

well then ZOS is dumb... I know, it's a shocker. Ok ZOS, proceed with ignoring the overwhelming majority of the player base.

There's nothing like an overwhelming majority for or against the trader system or a global system. All polls and threads have shown a roughly 51/49 split in favor of the current system. Get your facts together (or show proof of your assertions).

Iselin · August 2016

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

QuebraRegra wrote: »

well then ZOS is dumb... I know, it's a shocker. Ok ZOS, proceed with ignoring the overwhelming majority of the player base.

There's nothing like an overwhelming majority for or against the trader system or a global system. All polls and threads have shown a roughly 51/49 split in favor of the current system. Get your facts together (or show proof of your assertions).

Oh goodie. I guess the cash-shop loot boxes are not going to be implemented after all since 2/3 are against it in that poll. Good to know this is the way things work.