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Black Rose:
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Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭SleepyTroll wrote: »OR
Leave black rose as it is and make a new magicka heavy armour set? Stop making me re-gold gear over and over again please please. Call it white rose or something and make it the magicka equivalent of this. Kinda like why julianos came out as a mirror for hundings....
BR is still way overtuned for stamina.
?? Why? Most of the time BR users are running fasallas as well and play tanks. Or some of them combo it with agility or endurance and make really tanky brawler builds... I find this faaar prefarable and fun to fight as compared to your typical 6k weapon power gankinator-blades or stam sorcs with ridiculous damage...... BR builds to me are so much more balanced than the broken max resoruce/max weapon/spell power stacking builds.....
But BR in a max resource/damage build does just as much damage as those "gankinator" builds. And stam sorcs with BR do more damage and sustain better than stam sorcs in medium armor sets...so I fail to see your point. The tradeoff of BR is less dodge rolling and no snare immunity from shuffle, NOT damage.
But they're also way tankier and sustain just as well, if not better.
Me no gets it... 5 medium = 20% more weapon damage. 5 BR you lose that up front. 5 medium = more crit than 5 BR. 5 set mediums normally come with set bonuses better geared for damage ranging from hundings, vicecannon, viper etc.... Like my NB running 5 medium is rocking 6k weapon damage with 2.8k stam recovery while my DK tank with BR at best can get to 3k weapon damage and 1.2k stam recovery. The BR in no way puts his sustain anywhere near 2.8k stam recovery while in 5pc medium... It does however help with resource management cos you dont need to dodge roll often due to heavy armour being a lot tankier. Yeah my DK is tanky, but he takes a good while to kill anything whereas my NB pops stuff in 1-2 hit wombo combos esp with stealth burst...
So how exactly do stam sorcs with BR do more damage than stam sorcs running 5 pc medium. Me is confused? The words BR and max damage cant even go in the same sentence cos BR does not come in accessories or weapons meaning you are off the bat losing at least 20% weapon power + substantial crit (altho crit isnt as important in PvP but id still want it if im running max damage build as you say) from wearing 5 medium......
EDIT:
Also BR is a tank set that actually allows block to be viable in PvP... If you guys think stamina has too much damage go nerf stam DPS builds please. Fix the stacking of weapon power. Fix the insane stealth bursts. Stop messing with my tank sets..... We tanks are already a rare sight to see.... Like true CC/support tanks. Not the nonsense DPS perma-blockers who are plaguing cyrodill. Do something that nerfs them. Try to avoid collateral damage to us tanks.... We already got slapped by the 0 stam rec while blocking cos of the perma-block dress wearers.... No more pls....
I'm not saying your wrong, buy in all your reasons why medium is better there's one problem, you are forgetting wrath when bring up the medium weapon passive. Actually, a couple other notes. First, 5 medium gives crit yes, but due to heavy armor plus the 5 piece bonus BR users can run thief instead of serpent. Second, yes you may sacrifice some damage for switching to heavy, but it is surely not as much as you are trying to lead people to believe. As for you NB in medium having 6k weapon damage and 2.8k regen, that is *** ridiculous and we need soft caps back, unless your fudging the numbers to push your point.
1. Run theif in PvP? o.O No comments....
2. Wrath is like 120 weapon power after like 10 seconds of being spanked I think..... Erm hardly useful...
3. uhm as for NB stats.... That's pretty tame for a gankblade build... Far better stats running around... Ive got a friend running close to 3.5k stam recovery.. care to take a guess what his weapon power is? Its not far from 6k.....Edited by Vangy on August 25, 2016 8:26AM(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz0 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SleepyTroll wrote: »OR
Leave black rose as it is and make a new magicka heavy armour set? Stop making me re-gold gear over and over again please please. Call it white rose or something and make it the magicka equivalent of this. Kinda like why julianos came out as a mirror for hundings....
BR is still way overtuned for stamina.
?? Why? Most of the time BR users are running fasallas as well and play tanks. Or some of them combo it with agility or endurance and make really tanky brawler builds... I find this faaar prefarable and fun to fight as compared to your typical 6k weapon power gankinator-blades or stam sorcs with ridiculous damage...... BR builds to me are so much more balanced than the broken max resoruce/max weapon/spell power stacking builds.....
But BR in a max resource/damage build does just as much damage as those "gankinator" builds. And stam sorcs with BR do more damage and sustain better than stam sorcs in medium armor sets...so I fail to see your point. The tradeoff of BR is less dodge rolling and no snare immunity from shuffle, NOT damage.
But they're also way tankier and sustain just as well, if not better.
Me no gets it... 5 medium = 20% more weapon damage. 5 BR you lose that up front. 5 medium = more crit than 5 BR. 5 set mediums normally come with set bonuses better geared for damage ranging from hundings, vicecannon, viper etc.... Like my NB running 5 medium is rocking 6k weapon damage with 2.8k stam recovery while my DK tank with BR at best can get to 3k weapon damage and 1.2k stam recovery. The BR in no way puts his sustain anywhere near 2.8k stam recovery while in 5pc medium... It does however help with resource management cos you dont need to dodge roll often due to heavy armour being a lot tankier. Yeah my DK is tanky, but he takes a good while to kill anything whereas my NB pops stuff in 1-2 hit wombo combos esp with stealth burst...
So how exactly do stam sorcs with BR do more damage than stam sorcs running 5 pc medium. Me is confused? The words BR and max damage cant even go in the same sentence cos BR does not come in accessories or weapons meaning you are off the bat losing at least 20% weapon power + substantial crit (altho crit isnt as important in PvP but id still want it if im running max damage build as you say) from wearing 5 medium......
EDIT:
Also BR is a tank set that actually allows block to be viable in PvP... If you guys think stamina has too much damage go nerf stam DPS builds please. Fix the stacking of weapon power. Fix the insane stealth bursts. Stop messing with my tank sets..... We tanks are already a rare sight to see.... Like true CC/support tanks. Not the nonsense DPS perma-blockers who are plaguing cyrodill. Do something that nerfs them. Try to avoid collateral damage to us tanks.... We already got slapped by the 0 stam rec while blocking cos of the perma-block dress wearers.... No more pls....
I'm not saying your wrong, buy in all your reasons why medium is better there's one problem, you are forgetting wrath when bring up the medium weapon passive. Actually, a couple other notes. First, 5 medium gives crit yes, but due to heavy armor plus the 5 piece bonus BR users can run thief instead of serpent. Second, yes you may sacrifice some damage for switching to heavy, but it is surely not as much as you are trying to lead people to believe. As for you NB in medium having 6k weapon damage and 2.8k regen, that is *** ridiculous and we need soft caps back, unless your fudging the numbers to push your point.
1. Run theif in PvP? o.O No comments....
2. Wrath is like 120 weapon power after like 10 seconds of being spanked I think..... Erm hardly useful...
3. uhm as for NB stats.... That's pretty tame for a gankblade build... Far better stats running around... Ive got a friend running close to 3.5k stam recovery.. care to take a guess what his weapon power is? Its not far from 6k.....
BR dudes are running Thief a lot. Heavy armor passives do not amplify regen and give non-regen sustain. You don't need serpent at all to sustain fine.
Wrath is 200 base damage.
Stamblade *** measuring contest is irrelevant when they can just run viper and velidreth with their BR and not give two ***s about weapon damage and one shot you anyway...while still getting over like 4k.
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glavius✭✭✭✭✭If I could redesign BR Ithe would be as follows.
2 pc = Max Health
3 pc = Max Stamina
4 pc = Max Magicka
5 pc = Increases Constitution passive by 20% down from 40% and now grants Immunity from knock back and disabling effects.
This seems more in line with what I think Heavy Armor should grant, rather than spell/weapon damage.
Haha perma cc immunity. Thats a huge buff even with the other changes you suggested...3 -
Abob✭✭✭
Not really, what happens is that people are not used to heavy armor being viable, so now that it actually is an option as valid as medium armor for pvp, most ''pro pvp'ers'' start crying about how OP it is (similar to magicka sorc).
Now both options are valid for stam, it just depends on your playstyle. So it is GREAT to see that heavy armor is finally as good as medium for pvp
Next thing that needs to be addressed is shuffle, cause it is too good in comparison to the other armor skills, especially the heavy armor one.
And regarding armor skills, wearing 5 pieces of the armor type should be a requirement for using them; I don't think a heavy armored guy can dodge as easily as a guy in medium armor.4 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Not really, what happens is that people are not used to heavy armor being viable, so now that it actually is an option as valid as medium armor for pvp, most ''pro pvp'ers'' start crying about how OP it is (similar to magicka sorc).
Now both options are valid for stam, it just depends on your playstyle. So it is GREAT to see that heavy armor is finally as good as medium for pvp
Next thing that needs to be addressed is shuffle, cause it is too good in comparison to the other armor skills, especially the heavy armor one.
And regarding armor skills, wearing 5 pieces of the armor type should be a requirement for using them; I don't think a heavy armored guy can dodge as easily as a guy in medium armor.
Black Rose performing better than medium armor is ok because it's heavy and heavy has historically been weak.
But nerf Shuffle because it performs better than the heavy armor skill.
Careful buddy, your bias is showing.Edited by KenaPKK on August 25, 2016 12:17PM0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Not really, what happens is that people are not used to heavy armor being viable, so now that it actually is an option as valid as medium armor for pvp, most ''pro pvp'ers'' start crying about how OP it is (similar to magicka sorc).
Now both options are valid for stam, it just depends on your playstyle. So it is GREAT to see that heavy armor is finally as good as medium for pvp
Next thing that needs to be addressed is shuffle, cause it is too good in comparison to the other armor skills, especially the heavy armor one.
And regarding armor skills, wearing 5 pieces of the armor type should be a requirement for using them; I don't think a heavy armored guy can dodge as easily as a guy in medium armor.
Black Rose performing better than medium armor is ok because it's heavy and heavy has historically been weak.
But nerf Shuffle because it performs better than the heavy armor skill.
Careful buddy, your bias is showing.
Locking the armor skills will punish Magicka/tank builds if they want to use evasion.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Not really, what happens is that people are not used to heavy armor being viable, so now that it actually is an option as valid as medium armor for pvp, most ''pro pvp'ers'' start crying about how OP it is (similar to magicka sorc).
Now both options are valid for stam, it just depends on your playstyle. So it is GREAT to see that heavy armor is finally as good as medium for pvp
Next thing that needs to be addressed is shuffle, cause it is too good in comparison to the other armor skills, especially the heavy armor one.
And regarding armor skills, wearing 5 pieces of the armor type should be a requirement for using them; I don't think a heavy armored guy can dodge as easily as a guy in medium armor.
Black Rose performing better than medium armor is ok because it's heavy and heavy has historically been weak.
But nerf Shuffle because it performs better than the heavy armor skill.
Careful buddy, your bias is showing.
Locking the armor skills will punish Magicka/tank builds if they want to use evasion.
I was pointing out what the guy I quoted said. I'm not in favor of locking those skills.0 -
RadioheadSh0t✭✭✭✭✭This set is out of control.
I feel like ZOS overcompensates rather than balances.
First light armor was the first meta, then it was the medium meta, now it's the heavy meta. I'm still waiting for the "balanced" meta.Aldonius Direnni - Vet Altmer Sorc (AD)
Tyrus Telvanni - Vet Dunmer DK (AD)
Al Donius Bundy - Vet Imperial NB (AD)
Aldonius Brutus - Vet Orc DK (DC)0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Not really, what happens is that people are not used to heavy armor being viable, so now that it actually is an option as valid as medium armor for pvp, most ''pro pvp'ers'' start crying about how OP it is (similar to magicka sorc).
Now both options are valid for stam, it just depends on your playstyle. So it is GREAT to see that heavy armor is finally as good as medium for pvp
Next thing that needs to be addressed is shuffle, cause it is too good in comparison to the other armor skills, especially the heavy armor one.
And regarding armor skills, wearing 5 pieces of the armor type should be a requirement for using them; I don't think a heavy armored guy can dodge as easily as a guy in medium armor.
Black Rose performing better than medium armor is ok because it's heavy and heavy has historically been weak.
But nerf Shuffle because it performs better than the heavy armor skill.
Careful buddy, your bias is showing.
Locking the armor skills will punish Magicka/tank builds if they want to use evasion.
I was pointing out what the guy I quoted said. I'm not in favor of locking those skills.
I know, I was continuing the thoughts lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Abob✭✭✭
Not really, what happens is that people are not used to heavy armor being viable, so now that it actually is an option as valid as medium armor for pvp, most ''pro pvp'ers'' start crying about how OP it is (similar to magicka sorc).
Now both options are valid for stam, it just depends on your playstyle. So it is GREAT to see that heavy armor is finally as good as medium for pvp
Next thing that needs to be addressed is shuffle, cause it is too good in comparison to the other armor skills, especially the heavy armor one.
And regarding armor skills, wearing 5 pieces of the armor type should be a requirement for using them; I don't think a heavy armored guy can dodge as easily as a guy in medium armor.
Black Rose performing better than medium armor is ok because it's heavy and heavy has historically been weak.
But nerf Shuffle because it performs better than the heavy armor skill.
Careful buddy, your bias is showing.
Heavy armor is not performing better than medium, they are both viable options now, instead of only medium being viable.
Black rose is a powerful set, but there are medium armor sets that are also powerful, they just fit different playstyles.
Shuffle, on the other hand is too powerful in comparison to the other armor skills, both light and heavy, that's why EVERYBODY uses shuffle. Putting a requirement of 5 medium armor pieces needed to use shuffle would actually hurt heavy armor stam builds, because dodging is what keeps most builds alive, that 20% dodge chance is what makes all the builds seem tanky as ***. So a change to the heavy armor skill, like for example, reducing block cost by a %, would be useful and would "balance" things.
Want to use shuffle? Use 5 medium.
Want to use immovable? Use 5 heavy.
Etc.
And I talk about immovable cause I've always used heavy armor, and I used to spam immovable to always have the cc immunity, but shuffle is a million times more useful. It's a PASSIVE (no timing required, just pure luck) 20% dodge chance that negates all damage and dodging has no cost on resources.
I've always played tanky builds. When IC went live I made an armor master heavy armor set and had almost 40k both physical and spell resistance, but I didn't use shuffle. Once I started using it I just switched my armor set and ended with like 20k resistances, but became a lot more "tankier".
Try wearing heavy armor without shuffle against a medium armor user with shuffle, let's see who is more "tanky", and how OP heavy armor really is.
YOU CAN DODGE ATTACKS EVEN WHEN CC'ED! LOLEdited by Abob on August 25, 2016 2:21PM0 -
SleepyTroll✭✭✭✭✭
✭SleepyTroll wrote: »OR
Leave black rose as it is and make a new magicka heavy armour set? Stop making me re-gold gear over and over again please please. Call it white rose or something and make it the magicka equivalent of this. Kinda like why julianos came out as a mirror for hundings....
BR is still way overtuned for stamina.
?? Why? Most of the time BR users are running fasallas as well and play tanks. Or some of them combo it with agility or endurance and make really tanky brawler builds... I find this faaar prefarable and fun to fight as compared to your typical 6k weapon power gankinator-blades or stam sorcs with ridiculous damage...... BR builds to me are so much more balanced than the broken max resoruce/max weapon/spell power stacking builds.....
But BR in a max resource/damage build does just as much damage as those "gankinator" builds. And stam sorcs with BR do more damage and sustain better than stam sorcs in medium armor sets...so I fail to see your point. The tradeoff of BR is less dodge rolling and no snare immunity from shuffle, NOT damage.
But they're also way tankier and sustain just as well, if not better.
Me no gets it... 5 medium = 20% more weapon damage. 5 BR you lose that up front. 5 medium = more crit than 5 BR. 5 set mediums normally come with set bonuses better geared for damage ranging from hundings, vicecannon, viper etc.... Like my NB running 5 medium is rocking 6k weapon damage with 2.8k stam recovery while my DK tank with BR at best can get to 3k weapon damage and 1.2k stam recovery. The BR in no way puts his sustain anywhere near 2.8k stam recovery while in 5pc medium... It does however help with resource management cos you dont need to dodge roll often due to heavy armour being a lot tankier. Yeah my DK is tanky, but he takes a good while to kill anything whereas my NB pops stuff in 1-2 hit wombo combos esp with stealth burst...
So how exactly do stam sorcs with BR do more damage than stam sorcs running 5 pc medium. Me is confused? The words BR and max damage cant even go in the same sentence cos BR does not come in accessories or weapons meaning you are off the bat losing at least 20% weapon power + substantial crit (altho crit isnt as important in PvP but id still want it if im running max damage build as you say) from wearing 5 medium......
EDIT:
Also BR is a tank set that actually allows block to be viable in PvP... If you guys think stamina has too much damage go nerf stam DPS builds please. Fix the stacking of weapon power. Fix the insane stealth bursts. Stop messing with my tank sets..... We tanks are already a rare sight to see.... Like true CC/support tanks. Not the nonsense DPS perma-blockers who are plaguing cyrodill. Do something that nerfs them. Try to avoid collateral damage to us tanks.... We already got slapped by the 0 stam rec while blocking cos of the perma-block dress wearers.... No more pls....
I'm not saying your wrong, buy in all your reasons why medium is better there's one problem, you are forgetting wrath when bring up the medium weapon passive. Actually, a couple other notes. First, 5 medium gives crit yes, but due to heavy armor plus the 5 piece bonus BR users can run thief instead of serpent. Second, yes you may sacrifice some damage for switching to heavy, but it is surely not as much as you are trying to lead people to believe. As for you NB in medium having 6k weapon damage and 2.8k regen, that is *** ridiculous and we need soft caps back, unless your fudging the numbers to push your point.
1. Run theif in PvP? o.O No comments....
2. Wrath is like 120 weapon power after like 10 seconds of being spanked I think..... Erm hardly useful...
3. uhm as for NB stats.... That's pretty tame for a gankblade build... Far better stats running around... Ive got a friend running close to 3.5k stam recovery.. care to take a guess what his weapon power is? Its not far from 6k.....
1. Shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Remember thief is not just good for damage but also vigor and rally.
2. That's not how the passive works at all, I suggest reading the tool tip. Like Kena said it gives 200.
3. Oh, you are a gank blade...Edited by SleepyTroll on August 25, 2016 4:12PM1 -
cschwingeb14_ESO✭✭✭✭its funny that i have better sustain management in Heavy armor than in medium armor. /logic
I love that heavy armor gives us two ways to gain resources on top of using regen. Though I think they need to look at how medium and light armor provide resources and give a unique way to give them to a player. Maybe add resources back based on dmg?
Medium and light provide enhanced regen, it seems like that would be enough. Although perhaps they should grant a flat amount of regen per piece, like constitution does, rather than a % increase in regen. That would make other % regen increases more meaningful (racial and class passives mostly)Edited by cschwingeb14_ESO on August 25, 2016 5:58PM0 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭Why the f would they make this a hybrid set noone will use?
Heavy armor is hard countered by poison, even BR. If your complaining about a block build or utility build get real.0 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Not really, what happens is that people are not used to heavy armor being viable, so now that it actually is an option as valid as medium armor for pvp, most ''pro pvp'ers'' start crying about how OP it is (similar to magicka sorc).
Now both options are valid for stam, it just depends on your playstyle. So it is GREAT to see that heavy armor is finally as good as medium for pvp
Next thing that needs to be addressed is shuffle, cause it is too good in comparison to the other armor skills, especially the heavy armor one.
And regarding armor skills, wearing 5 pieces of the armor type should be a requirement for using them; I don't think a heavy armored guy can dodge as easily as a guy in medium armor.
Black Rose performing better than medium armor is ok because it's heavy and heavy has historically been weak.
But nerf Shuffle because it performs better than the heavy armor skill.
Careful buddy, your bias is showing.
Heavy armor is not performing better than medium, they are both viable options now, instead of only medium being viable.
Black rose is a powerful set, but there are medium armor sets that are also powerful, they just fit different playstyles.
Shuffle, on the other hand is too powerful in comparison to the other armor skills, both light and heavy, that's why EVERYBODY uses shuffle. Putting a requirement of 5 medium armor pieces needed to use shuffle would actually hurt heavy armor stam builds, because dodging is what keeps most builds alive, that 20% dodge chance is what makes all the builds seem tanky as ***. So a change to the heavy armor skill, like for example, reducing block cost by a %, would be useful and would "balance" things.
Want to use shuffle? Use 5 medium.
Want to use immovable? Use 5 heavy.
Etc.
And I talk about immovable cause I've always used heavy armor, and I used to spam immovable to always have the cc immunity, but shuffle is a million times more useful. It's a PASSIVE (no timing required, just pure luck) 20% dodge chance that negates all damage and dodging has no cost on resources.
I've always played tanky builds. When IC went live I made an armor master heavy armor set and had almost 40k both physical and spell resistance, but I didn't use shuffle. Once I started using it I just switched my armor set and ended with like 20k resistances, but became a lot more "tankier".
Try wearing heavy armor without shuffle against a medium armor user with shuffle, let's see who is more "tanky", and how OP heavy armor really is.
YOU CAN DODGE ATTACKS EVEN WHEN CC'ED! LOL
Harnessed Magicka actually isn't that bad of a skill, Its certainly used by Magicka Builds like Shuffle is used by Stamina Builds.
however the heavy armor skill has been crap for a very long time.....It simply cost to much stamina and isn't well thought out.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
dashima✭✭✭So I finally dropped my stamblade's medium armor builds for Black Rose.
Obviously the survivability is amazing, never been able to facetank so much damage on spamblade before. But at the same time the damage is almost on par with medium armor (seen up to 14k incaps) and the sustain is better, as long as I keep on the offense and keep up heavy attacks.
It's a relief to be able to stand my ground against multiple players esp with how high damage is now, but it leaves the question: why even bother with medium armor then? I don't want black rose to be nerfed so hard that no one will use it, but there's currently very limited benefits med armor gives over sets like black rose. :'(
Edit: And I really hate cancer sets like viper, vicecannon, eternal hunt, velidreth, etc. so it really feels like I have very few options (such as black rose) if I want to be competitive in PvP.Edited by dashima on August 26, 2016 3:20AMVenatus | Hagnado
AD | Revân Stamina Nightblade AR35 scrub
AD | Rëvan Stamina Sorcerer fotm
DC | Ain Ghazal Magicka DKtfw too lazy to grind
AD | Ain Ghazal Magicka DK
AD | Run I Triggered Them Magicka Templar
DC | Inner Postern Wall Stamina Templar
DC | Kaivalanth Magicka Nightblade
DC | Rëvân Stamina Nightblade1 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why the f would they make this a hybrid set noone will use?
Heavy armor is hard countered by poison, even BR. If your complaining about a block build or utility build get real.
Ability cost increasing poisons counter everything because they're op too. Argument invalid.2 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I know it's only just been buffed but heavy armour is overperforming.
It's mean't to be something you use to be more tanky and have more surviveability
But currently you have:
OP sustain:
Tankyness
Dmg.
It's giving everything.
The sustain needs to be dropped slightly and the wraith passive needs to be halved.
Of course black rose is just one of the problems of these ignore sustain and stacj damage and be tanky all at once builds.. with skills such siphoning attacks, helping hands and the recently overbuffed dark deal.
Again zos following past patterns where they either over buff or over nerf things.Edited by leepalmer95 on August 26, 2016 12:50AMPS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Sile✭✭✭I feel like it isn't so much BR, but more that a lot of other sets are just average. Doesn't this always seem to be the case though? ESO has such crummy itemisation, particularly with the older sets. Look at the crafted sets, how many of them are really used? There are a few standouts, and then the rest are so so very average.
The boost to constitution is nice though. I don't think you'd have much sustain issues without it though, in another set, provided you were Redguard. It's almost the same amount of stam restored.Gondor
Stamplar
The Kelly Gang
Eternal Dear Leader of Bad People on a Shortbus
OG Daggerfall Covenant0 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Heavy armour was fine before the DB buffs, to be honest. Highly specialized, trading sustain for tankiness. There were some interesting builds with 5 heavy out there, but they werent as straightforward as medium/light builds and as such not as popular.
It's just crazy now. Passive mitigation (which is easier to play with than active defenses like roll dodge and shields) and still decent sustain and damage. Black Rose just takes it over the top, but that set is definitely not the root cause here.0 -
Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭SleepyTroll wrote: »SleepyTroll wrote: »OR
Leave black rose as it is and make a new magicka heavy armour set? Stop making me re-gold gear over and over again please please. Call it white rose or something and make it the magicka equivalent of this. Kinda like why julianos came out as a mirror for hundings....
BR is still way overtuned for stamina.
?? Why? Most of the time BR users are running fasallas as well and play tanks. Or some of them combo it with agility or endurance and make really tanky brawler builds... I find this faaar prefarable and fun to fight as compared to your typical 6k weapon power gankinator-blades or stam sorcs with ridiculous damage...... BR builds to me are so much more balanced than the broken max resoruce/max weapon/spell power stacking builds.....
But BR in a max resource/damage build does just as much damage as those "gankinator" builds. And stam sorcs with BR do more damage and sustain better than stam sorcs in medium armor sets...so I fail to see your point. The tradeoff of BR is less dodge rolling and no snare immunity from shuffle, NOT damage.
But they're also way tankier and sustain just as well, if not better.
Me no gets it... 5 medium = 20% more weapon damage. 5 BR you lose that up front. 5 medium = more crit than 5 BR. 5 set mediums normally come with set bonuses better geared for damage ranging from hundings, vicecannon, viper etc.... Like my NB running 5 medium is rocking 6k weapon damage with 2.8k stam recovery while my DK tank with BR at best can get to 3k weapon damage and 1.2k stam recovery. The BR in no way puts his sustain anywhere near 2.8k stam recovery while in 5pc medium... It does however help with resource management cos you dont need to dodge roll often due to heavy armour being a lot tankier. Yeah my DK is tanky, but he takes a good while to kill anything whereas my NB pops stuff in 1-2 hit wombo combos esp with stealth burst...
So how exactly do stam sorcs with BR do more damage than stam sorcs running 5 pc medium. Me is confused? The words BR and max damage cant even go in the same sentence cos BR does not come in accessories or weapons meaning you are off the bat losing at least 20% weapon power + substantial crit (altho crit isnt as important in PvP but id still want it if im running max damage build as you say) from wearing 5 medium......
EDIT:
Also BR is a tank set that actually allows block to be viable in PvP... If you guys think stamina has too much damage go nerf stam DPS builds please. Fix the stacking of weapon power. Fix the insane stealth bursts. Stop messing with my tank sets..... We tanks are already a rare sight to see.... Like true CC/support tanks. Not the nonsense DPS perma-blockers who are plaguing cyrodill. Do something that nerfs them. Try to avoid collateral damage to us tanks.... We already got slapped by the 0 stam rec while blocking cos of the perma-block dress wearers.... No more pls....
I'm not saying your wrong, buy in all your reasons why medium is better there's one problem, you are forgetting wrath when bring up the medium weapon passive. Actually, a couple other notes. First, 5 medium gives crit yes, but due to heavy armor plus the 5 piece bonus BR users can run thief instead of serpent. Second, yes you may sacrifice some damage for switching to heavy, but it is surely not as much as you are trying to lead people to believe. As for you NB in medium having 6k weapon damage and 2.8k regen, that is *** ridiculous and we need soft caps back, unless your fudging the numbers to push your point.
1. Run theif in PvP? o.O No comments....
2. Wrath is like 120 weapon power after like 10 seconds of being spanked I think..... Erm hardly useful...
3. uhm as for NB stats.... That's pretty tame for a gankblade build... Far better stats running around... Ive got a friend running close to 3.5k stam recovery.. care to take a guess what his weapon power is? Its not far from 6k.....
1. Shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Remember thief is not just good for damage but also vigor and rally.
2. That's not how the passive works at all, I suggest reading the tool tip. Like Kena said it gives 200.
3. Oh, you are a gank blade...
1. Like I said. No comments on running theif. I prefer serpent.
2. 120 and 200 arent that far off. Imo its still a pretty meh passive compared to the flat out block cost reduction that heavy armor used to grant which I loved btw.
3. Yes I am. And im also a lot of other things as you can see from my sig.SleepyTroll wrote: »OR
Leave black rose as it is and make a new magicka heavy armour set? Stop making me re-gold gear over and over again please please. Call it white rose or something and make it the magicka equivalent of this. Kinda like why julianos came out as a mirror for hundings....
BR is still way overtuned for stamina.
?? Why? Most of the time BR users are running fasallas as well and play tanks. Or some of them combo it with agility or endurance and make really tanky brawler builds... I find this faaar prefarable and fun to fight as compared to your typical 6k weapon power gankinator-blades or stam sorcs with ridiculous damage...... BR builds to me are so much more balanced than the broken max resoruce/max weapon/spell power stacking builds.....
But BR in a max resource/damage build does just as much damage as those "gankinator" builds. And stam sorcs with BR do more damage and sustain better than stam sorcs in medium armor sets...so I fail to see your point. The tradeoff of BR is less dodge rolling and no snare immunity from shuffle, NOT damage.
But they're also way tankier and sustain just as well, if not better.
Me no gets it... 5 medium = 20% more weapon damage. 5 BR you lose that up front. 5 medium = more crit than 5 BR. 5 set mediums normally come with set bonuses better geared for damage ranging from hundings, vicecannon, viper etc.... Like my NB running 5 medium is rocking 6k weapon damage with 2.8k stam recovery while my DK tank with BR at best can get to 3k weapon damage and 1.2k stam recovery. The BR in no way puts his sustain anywhere near 2.8k stam recovery while in 5pc medium... It does however help with resource management cos you dont need to dodge roll often due to heavy armour being a lot tankier. Yeah my DK is tanky, but he takes a good while to kill anything whereas my NB pops stuff in 1-2 hit wombo combos esp with stealth burst...
So how exactly do stam sorcs with BR do more damage than stam sorcs running 5 pc medium. Me is confused? The words BR and max damage cant even go in the same sentence cos BR does not come in accessories or weapons meaning you are off the bat losing at least 20% weapon power + substantial crit (altho crit isnt as important in PvP but id still want it if im running max damage build as you say) from wearing 5 medium......
EDIT:
Also BR is a tank set that actually allows block to be viable in PvP... If you guys think stamina has too much damage go nerf stam DPS builds please. Fix the stacking of weapon power. Fix the insane stealth bursts. Stop messing with my tank sets..... We tanks are already a rare sight to see.... Like true CC/support tanks. Not the nonsense DPS perma-blockers who are plaguing cyrodill. Do something that nerfs them. Try to avoid collateral damage to us tanks.... We already got slapped by the 0 stam rec while blocking cos of the perma-block dress wearers.... No more pls....
I'm not saying your wrong, buy in all your reasons why medium is better there's one problem, you are forgetting wrath when bring up the medium weapon passive. Actually, a couple other notes. First, 5 medium gives crit yes, but due to heavy armor plus the 5 piece bonus BR users can run thief instead of serpent. Second, yes you may sacrifice some damage for switching to heavy, but it is surely not as much as you are trying to lead people to believe. As for you NB in medium having 6k weapon damage and 2.8k regen, that is *** ridiculous and we need soft caps back, unless your fudging the numbers to push your point.
1. Run theif in PvP? o.O No comments....
2. Wrath is like 120 weapon power after like 10 seconds of being spanked I think..... Erm hardly useful...
3. uhm as for NB stats.... That's pretty tame for a gankblade build... Far better stats running around... Ive got a friend running close to 3.5k stam recovery.. care to take a guess what his weapon power is? Its not far from 6k.....
BR dudes are running Thief a lot. Heavy armor passives do not amplify regen and give non-regen sustain. You don't need serpent at all to sustain fine.
Wrath is 200 base damage.
Stamblade *** measuring contest is irrelevant when they can just run viper and velidreth with their BR and not give two ***s about weapon damage and one shot you anyway...while still getting over like 4k.
Why would I run BR if im going to one shot people... I'd toss that BR for coat or vicecannon etc.... The problem isnt black rose. Without black rose, most toons cant even run heavy armour to proper effectiveness cos constitution by itself is crap. Black rose just makes it viable to think about wearing heavy. The problem with those particular high damage builds in BR you are seeing is those other overtuned crap. Velidreth, vicecannon, viper, coat..... When ZOS made these sets, I wonder if they were even thinking about PvP..... Even if 2 of those sets (you can wear 3 of them at any time) proc, most players would be insta dead regardless of whether the offender is wearing heavy or medium.......
The problem isnt BR or heavy armour. Its what ZOS did to heavy armour combined with those other DPS sets.Heavy armour was fine before the DB buffs, to be honest. Highly specialized, trading sustain for tankiness. There were some interesting builds with 5 heavy out there, but they werent as straightforward as medium/light builds and as such not as popular.
It's just crazy now. Passive mitigation (which is easier to play with than active defenses like roll dodge and shields) and still decent sustain and damage. Black Rose just takes it over the top, but that set is definitely not the root cause here.
^Edited by Vangy on August 26, 2016 1:47AM(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
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KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Vangy you wouldn't run BR if you just want to gank and one shot. You're missing our point entirely.
The point is that with BR, you can sustain indefinitely and tank a lot of damage while still one shotting people.
Also Vicecannon is a noob trap and an awful set. Viper, alchemist, and archer's mind are all better for ganking. Who uses a dot set in a gank one shot build?? lmao Build for burst, not a dot.0 -
Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Vangy you wouldn't run BR if you just want to gank and one shot. You're missing our point entirely.
The point is that with BR, you can sustain indefinitely and tank a lot of damage while still one shotting people.
Also Vicecannon is a noob trap and an awful set. Viper, alchemist, and archer's mind are all better for ganking. Who uses a dot set in a gank one shot build?? lmao Build for burst, not a dot.
Vicecannon not the best but far better than BR in a gank build yes? That was my point which you also seemed to have missed entirely. Also, people being able to sustain indefinitely is your POV. As for people wearing BR and still one shotting, its the fault of those broken sets working in conjunction with each other. Viper and veli are prime examples. Fix those. BR is fine as a tanky brawler set. Remove or nerf *** like viper or alch. Stop gunning down sets that are completely fine as a stand alone. Same scenario as when people used proxy, VD and alch in conjunction to gank burst groups. Proxy got hit and people L2P and things settled down. Same for this new meta. Tone down the damage from viper/alch/coat. BR by itself is just what its supposed to be. A really tanky set.Edited by Vangy on August 26, 2016 2:27AM(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz0 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Vangy you wouldn't run BR if you just want to gank and one shot. You're missing our point entirely.
The point is that with BR, you can sustain indefinitely and tank a lot of damage while still one shotting people.
Also Vicecannon is a noob trap and an awful set. Viper, alchemist, and archer's mind are all better for ganking. Who uses a dot set in a gank one shot build?? lmao Build for burst, not a dot.
Vicecannon not the best but far better than BR in a gank build yes? That was my point which you also seemed to have missed entirely. Also, people being able to sustain indefinitely is your POV. As for people wearing BR and still one shotting, its the fault of those broken sets working in conjunction with each other. Viper and veli are prime examples. Fix those. BR is fine as a tanky brawler set. Remove or nerf *** like viper or alch. Stop gunning down sets that are completely fine as a stand alone.
My point was that your point was wrong. BR isn't a gank set. Stamina builds are not all gank builds. Stop drawing the similarity. BR overperforms in open brawls. Ganking is beside the point.0 -
Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Vangy you wouldn't run BR if you just want to gank and one shot. You're missing our point entirely.
The point is that with BR, you can sustain indefinitely and tank a lot of damage while still one shotting people.
Also Vicecannon is a noob trap and an awful set. Viper, alchemist, and archer's mind are all better for ganking. Who uses a dot set in a gank one shot build?? lmao Build for burst, not a dot.
Vicecannon not the best but far better than BR in a gank build yes? That was my point which you also seemed to have missed entirely. Also, people being able to sustain indefinitely is your POV. As for people wearing BR and still one shotting, its the fault of those broken sets working in conjunction with each other. Viper and veli are prime examples. Fix those. BR is fine as a tanky brawler set. Remove or nerf *** like viper or alch. Stop gunning down sets that are completely fine as a stand alone.
My point was that your point was wrong. BR isn't a gank set. Stamina builds are not all gank builds. Stop drawing the similarity. BR overperforms in open brawls. Ganking is beside the point.
Again BR overperforming is your POV. That dosent make me wrong. And no one said BR was a gank set. Infact I said the opposite. The reason I brought up vicecannon was that id prefer even that to wearing BR on my gank builds.You were the one who brought up BR being used with viper etc and still one-shotting people. My POV is that BR isnt at fault for this. Its sets like viper. Fix those. Also get rid of the stupid wrath passive. Gimme back my block cost reduction for heavy armour.Edited by Vangy on August 26, 2016 2:35AM(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
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DUTCH_REAPER✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Vangy you wouldn't run BR if you just want to gank and one shot. You're missing our point entirely.
The point is that with BR, you can sustain indefinitely and tank a lot of damage while still one shotting people.
Also Vicecannon is a noob trap and an awful set. Viper, alchemist, and archer's mind are all better for ganking. Who uses a dot set in a gank one shot build?? lmao Build for burst, not a dot.
Vicecannon not the best but far better than BR in a gank build yes? That was my point which you also seemed to have missed entirely. Also, people being able to sustain indefinitely is your POV. As for people wearing BR and still one shotting, its the fault of those broken sets working in conjunction with each other. Viper and veli are prime examples. Fix those. BR is fine as a tanky brawler set. Remove or nerf *** like viper or alch. Stop gunning down sets that are completely fine as a stand alone.
My point was that your point was wrong. BR isn't a gank set. Stamina builds are not all gank builds. Stop drawing the similarity. BR overperforms in open brawls. Ganking is beside the point.
Again BR overperforming is your POV. That dosent make me wrong. And no one said BR was a gank set. Infact I said the opposite. You were the one who brought up BR being used with viper etc and still one-shotting people. My POV is that BR isnt at fault for this. Its sets like viper. Fix those. Also get rid of the stupid wrath passive. Gimme back my block cost reduction for heavy armour.
Get rid of wrath passive? Wo wo eaaaasy. I like my wrath passive
1 -
Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »@Vangy you wouldn't run BR if you just want to gank and one shot. You're missing our point entirely.
The point is that with BR, you can sustain indefinitely and tank a lot of damage while still one shotting people.
Also Vicecannon is a noob trap and an awful set. Viper, alchemist, and archer's mind are all better for ganking. Who uses a dot set in a gank one shot build?? lmao Build for burst, not a dot.
Vicecannon not the best but far better than BR in a gank build yes? That was my point which you also seemed to have missed entirely. Also, people being able to sustain indefinitely is your POV. As for people wearing BR and still one shotting, its the fault of those broken sets working in conjunction with each other. Viper and veli are prime examples. Fix those. BR is fine as a tanky brawler set. Remove or nerf *** like viper or alch. Stop gunning down sets that are completely fine as a stand alone.
My point was that your point was wrong. BR isn't a gank set. Stamina builds are not all gank builds. Stop drawing the similarity. BR overperforms in open brawls. Ganking is beside the point.
Again BR overperforming is your POV. That dosent make me wrong. And no one said BR was a gank set. Infact I said the opposite. You were the one who brought up BR being used with viper etc and still one-shotting people. My POV is that BR isnt at fault for this. Its sets like viper. Fix those. Also get rid of the stupid wrath passive. Gimme back my block cost reduction for heavy armour.
Get rid of wrath passive? Wo wo eaaaasy. I like my wrath passive
Waiii. Waii you like 200 weapon power more than 20% block cost reduction =X my magDK would love the extra block cost reduction.(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
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Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »My guy isnt a block knight
but....but..... I am..... =((2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
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