Update 12 - Is CP Cap for Enemies and Gear Being Raised?

Publius_Scipio · August 2016

I read somewhere last week that the CP cap is being raised again in Update 12. Does this include the mob and gear CP cap (beyond CP 160)? If not won't the game be too easy for players at the new cap?

Also no mention of new mats as far as I know. I assume no new mats until new zone?

Nebthet78 · August 2016

I would be happy if they raised the CP cap again for Players. Hopefully something larger than just 30CP this time though.

I haven't heard anything about them raising the current max CP level of Enemies or Armor beyond 160.

WhiteMage · August 2016

CP cap will be raised by 30 to 561. Gear cap will remain the same at 160. I read somewhere that ZOS doesn't plan to raise the gear cap for a long time, if ever, and that is very reassuring.

Publius_Scipio · August 2016

WhiteMage wrote: »

CP cap will be raise by 30 to 561. Gear cap will remain the same at 160. I read somewhere that ZOS doesn't plan to raise the gear cap for a long time, if ever, and that is very reassuring.

So how will the game not feel too easy? Unless the fight requires mechanics, I sit on the enemy and just spam rapid strikes and not care about anything going on.

JD2013 · August 2016

WhiteMage wrote: »

CP cap will be raise by 30 to 561. Gear cap will remain the same at 160. I read somewhere that ZOS doesn't plan to raise the gear cap for a long time, if ever, and that is very reassuring.

And also will make the game very stagnant.

An occasional gear increase would be very welcome. Make new content harder.

bebynnag · August 2016

they raised the cap from 140 to 160 last summer when IC was released, and they have only now got arround to scaling all the trials to 160....

im not against a level increase, but as long as everything is insta scaled and were not stuck with below level content again.

Nifty2g · August 2016

they said its being raised by 30 per dlc
i dont think they are ever raising the gear cap

Sallington · August 2016

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

WhiteMage wrote: »

CP cap will be raise by 30 to 561. Gear cap will remain the same at 160. I read somewhere that ZOS doesn't plan to raise the gear cap for a long time, if ever, and that is very reassuring.

So how will the game not feel too easy? Unless the fight requires mechanics, I sit on the enemy and just spam rapid strikes and not care about anything going on.

99% of PvE content is exactly that easy.

Then the other 1% is bang-your-head-against-the-wall ridiculous.

Khaos_Bane · August 2016

Sallington wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

WhiteMage wrote: »

CP cap will be raise by 30 to 561. Gear cap will remain the same at 160. I read somewhere that ZOS doesn't plan to raise the gear cap for a long time, if ever, and that is very reassuring.

So how will the game not feel too easy? Unless the fight requires mechanics, I sit on the enemy and just spam rapid strikes and not care about anything going on.

99% of PvE content is exactly that easy.

Then the other 1% is bang-your-head-against-the-wall ridiculous.

It would be incredible if they had a difficulty slider, and some slight benefit to playing at a more difficult level.

PC0523 · August 2016

WhiteMage wrote: »

I read somewhere that ZOS doesn't plan to raise the gear cap for a long time, if ever, and that is very reassuring.

This is great news! Any chance you can provide a reference for this?

Sallington · August 2016

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

WhiteMage wrote: »

CP cap will be raise by 30 to 561. Gear cap will remain the same at 160. I read somewhere that ZOS doesn't plan to raise the gear cap for a long time, if ever, and that is very reassuring.

So how will the game not feel too easy? Unless the fight requires mechanics, I sit on the enemy and just spam rapid strikes and not care about anything going on.

99% of PvE content is exactly that easy.

Then the other 1% is bang-your-head-against-the-wall ridiculous.

It would be incredible if they had a difficulty slider, and some slight benefit to playing at a more difficult level.

I think the problem is that there is no gear progression. As soon as you hit CP cap, you just go grab your (mostly) BiS gear and are on your way. The only real progression is grinding out XP, which is terrible, terrible system.

I'll use BC WoW as an example, since I consider that the gold standard for PvE content. The tiered gear systems gives people a path, and a goal to work towards. The content gets progressively harder , and as you get used to your current tier's content and gear up, you are improving your character and getting ready for the next tier of content. There is never a time where you have the gear you need, but "sorry buddy, go grind more XP so you can compete in this content."

Once you hit max level, grinding XP to improve your character (a very significant amount) is probably the worst system I can think of. I've said it a million times, but the CP system should be 100% quality of life and NON-COMBAT buffs. Mount speed, +% gold, inspiration boosts, etc. That way you can continue to 'improve' your character via XP, but the main progress will be through gear upgrades and honing your skills.

EDIT: So ZOS raising the CP cap, and then balancing new content around that new cap, is essentially just balancing content around XP gains. Dumb.

Publius_Scipio · August 2016

No one has explained how the game won't be too easy for players that will be at CP cap. Outside of boss fight mechanics, throwing a ton of adds at you during a boss fight, and giving the boss 10,000,000,000 HP, how will the game keep up with player CP cap?

Asgari · August 2016

The gear cap may stay at 160 but that doesn't mean they can't introduce new materials required and make the current top tier material drop a level

WhiteMage · August 2016

@PC0523
For that I will have to direct you to this thread, which in turn will direct you to the article. Now from what I can tell this isn't an official confirmation, but I'd like to trust the source.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3277202#Comment_3277202
(Top of the page)

KingYogi415 · August 2016

The basic pve is already easy. That's not going to change much.

Have you beat every vet dungeon hard mode. Have you beat VMA and Vdsa?

Have you beat every every vet trail. In the game?

At max CP this is what what is built to challenge us.

Unless you have gone flawless on all of these you have no right to call the game easy!

Danksta · August 2016

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

No one has explained how the game won't be too easy for players that will be at CP cap. Outside of boss fight mechanics, throwing a ton of adds at you during a boss fight, and giving the boss 10,000,000,000 HP, how will the game keep up with player CP cap?

The majority of content already is too easy. Raising the CP cap will only exacerbate that.

Sallington · August 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

The basic pve is already easy. That's not going to change much.

Have you beat every vet dungeon hard mode. Have you beat VMA and Vdsa?

Have you beat every every vet trail. In the game?

At max CP this is what what is built to challenge us.

Unless you have gone flawless on all of these you have no right to call the game easy!

That's true, but I think the problem is the very VERY abrupt change in difficulty.

Take Maelstrom Arena for example. People can clear normal in 45 minutes with their eyes closed, and never be able to even get past the 5th stage on vMA. There's no tiered progression. It's either so easy that's it's boring, or so hard that it's not worth the effort to get your Powered Maelstrom Bow.

ADarklore · August 2016

WhiteMage wrote: »

@PC0523
For that I will have to direct you to this thread, which in turn will direct you to the article. Now from what I can tell this isn't an official confirmation, but I'd like to trust the source.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3277202#Comment_3277202
(Top of the page)

Thanks for quoting my post.

The info was taken directly from Rich Lambert's interview with MMORPG.

"MMORPG: With max level set at CP 160, what happens if and when you do change the max level? Will the rewards of Hel Ra and AA change too?

We have a plan for how to address this and our goal is to make sure this content doesn’t become obsolete. More details on that when/if we decide to raise the gear cap. (Note – it won’t be anytime soon)"

Dagoth_Rac · August 2016

An extra 1% DPS or so from 10 more points in the Mage tree is not going to make the content too easy. There is simply a large chunk of content that is designed for average players. That content will be easy for a dedicated player regardless of 100 CP, 250CP, 531 CP, or 561 CP. And if you read the forums, you are already more dedicated than 90% of players. :-)

Then there is Vet Maw of Lorkhaj, Vet Hel Ra Citadel on hard mode, Vet Maelstrom Arena, etc. For those, an extra 1% DPS from 10 more points in the Mage tree is not going to make any difference. If you cannot clear it with 20000 DPS, you are not going to clear it with 20200 DPS. If you can clear it with 40400 DPS, you could have cleared it with 40000 DPS.

3 or 4 years from now? When the CP cap is 800? Well, if there is no content harder than Vet Maw and Vet Maelstrom added in the next 3 or 4 years, the game has much bigger problems!

Burning_Talons · August 2016

JD2013 wrote: »

WhiteMage wrote: »

CP cap will be raise by 30 to 561. Gear cap will remain the same at 160. I read somewhere that ZOS doesn't plan to raise the gear cap for a long time, if ever, and that is very reassuring.

And also will make the game very stagnant.

An occasional gear increase would be very welcome. Make new content harder.

Grinding for new gear isnt harder its just annoying. If anything it will make the game easier because yknow higher gear equals better stats. Sometime i wonder what people think sometimes

Autolycus · August 2016

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

An extra 1% DPS or so from 10 more points in the Mage tree is not going to make the content too easy. There is simply a large chunk of content that is designed for average players. That content will be easy for a dedicated player regardless of 100 CP, 250CP, 531 CP, or 561 CP. And if you read the forums, you are already more dedicated than 90% of players. :-)

Then there is Vet Maw of Lorkhaj, Vet Hel Ra Citadel on hard mode, Vet Maelstrom Arena, etc. For those, an extra 1% DPS from 10 more points in the Mage tree is not going to make any difference. If you cannot clear it with 20000 DPS, you are not going to clear it with 20200 DPS. If you can clear it with 40400 DPS, you could have cleared it with 40000 DPS.

3 or 4 years from now? When the CP cap is 800? Well, if there is no content harder than Vet Maw and Vet Maelstrom added in the next 3 or 4 years, the game has much bigger problems!

You da man Rac. Tell 'em how it is.

But in all seriousness, this is absolutely 100% true. A few more CP will not, without any semblance of doubt in my mind, make the difference between completion or failing. I have to say, and I mean this genuinely and sincerely, that hardmode vet trials are probably the most well-done aspect of this game right now. It truly is mechanic based, and players who don't put in the time and practice, who don't die repeatedly for hours on end to the same mechanics, who don't build their characters properly or dedicate the time to gain access to the highest gear, will not stand a chance in hardmodes. Veteran is one thing, and it's challenging in its own right, but the difference between, say The Warrior, on veteran and veteran hardmode is a night and day difference. Bring your Depends and a bottle, papa's takin you for a riiiiide.

Nestor · August 2016

All they need to do is introduce new sets, both Dropped and Crafted for the Gear.

ADarklore · August 2016

Nestor wrote: »

All they need to do is introduce new sets, both Dropped and Crafted for the Gear.

And what? IMO they haven't really even released any new sets that compete with existing sets... Stamina still tend to go for Hundings and Magicka for Julianos. Sure some mix it up, but at the end of the day, they're basically fairly even. Without any raise in gear/content cap, everything remains stagnant because there won't be any need for 'better' gear. Better gear is needed for more difficult content, but with battle leveling, content difficulty will never change, thus no need for new gear, thus no real progression... and IMO, ESO becomes a stale game.

KingYogi415 · August 2016

@ADarklore

If you have 6+ fully golded sets congrats.

But most people want some time to enjoy the fruits of their labor from the meaningless grind.

Nestor · August 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

And what? IMO they haven't really even released any new sets that compete with existing sets... Stamina still tend to go for Hundings and Magicka for Julianos. Sure some mix it up, but at the end of the day, they're basically fairly even.

@ADarklore

Is that the fault of the gear or the game and it's Meta? All the gear sets released have some niche value, and if people are willing to adjust their build to take advantage of the set, are quite viable. Problem is everyone follows the pied piper of Build sets focused on Stamina or Magic based DPS. That is not the fault of the Gear Cap.

Besides, if they raise the cap, how does that change the Meta and the preference for Hundings or Julianos? Everyone will just go out and grind for mats to make the same gear sets in CP180.

Gear Sets are the way to create build diversity, not raising the cap which does nothing for build diversity.

Lord_Wrath · August 2016

I cant see at some point in ESOs life (fingers crossed) that classes become dropped and all skills become available.

Daveheart · August 2016

Hey Publius, yes the basic PVE questing will be very easy; however, as noted by others in the thread, it already is easy.

That being said, they are rescaling every (base) zone in update 12 and adding veteran difficultly versions of each dungeon. While they may all be easy for some, there are plenty of players who still struggle with the difficulty of Mac level dungeons.

For those of us who find the normal dungeons and trials to easy, there are three hard mode trials. Currently very few guilds have even cleared hard mode AA and HRC after the most recent update. Even just the non- hard mode veteran versions of these trials are relatively challenging for most groups.

While I think that overworld PvE is going to continue to be overly easy, I don't see then reversing course on the overall difficulty of trials.

ADarklore · August 2016

Nestor wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

And what? IMO they haven't really even released any new sets that compete with existing sets... Stamina still tend to go for Hundings and Magicka for Julianos. Sure some mix it up, but at the end of the day, they're basically fairly even.

@ADarklore

Is that the fault of the gear or the game and it's Meta? All the gear sets released have some niche value, and if people are willing to adjust their build to take advantage of the set, are quite viable. Problem is everyone follows the pied piper of Build sets focused on Stamina or Magic based DPS. That is not the fault of the Gear Cap.

Besides, if they raise the cap, how does that change the Meta and the preference for Hundings or Julianos? Everyone will just go out and grind for mats to make the same gear sets in CP180.

Gear Sets are the way to create build diversity, not raising the cap which does nothing for build diversity.

True, BUT, not everyone WANTS diversity. You're basically saying, "ESO should FORCE players to be different"... well, players want to be the best, not always 'different'. I choose the sets I choose because they offer me the BEST for how I play, not based upon what everyone else does... but it just happens that the sets I use ARE the ones most people use because they are the best. How can ZOS create a new 'better' set if everything remains the same? With a cap raise, they could offer new sets that are BETTER than current sets- adding better stats, etc... but it would justify actually crafting a new set. Right now, even if they added a set that was slightly better, the MAJORITY of players wouldn't see enough difference to justify the hassle of crafting a new set. But if there was better mats that coincided with better gear, it WOULD justify the hassle of crating a new set... even if it was for changing away from the butt-ugly RED weapons we have now.

Right now I run around questing... and questing... and questing... and questing... with ONLY CP gain as being any type of 'advancement'. There is nothing to 'look forward to' other than, "oh look, I have another CP". At least in other MMOs, with the gear grind, there was always another upgrade to look forward to. People wonder why I constantly create and delete alts, its because at least leveling offers me some sort of advancement... but once you've leveled everything... you're back to only chasing CP. At least those who run dungeons have various things to pray to the RNG gods for, but those of us who are solely PvE questers... there really is NOTHING other than CP chasing for us once we're leveled; gear and mat grinding gives us something else to chase for advancement at least.

ADarklore · August 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

@ADarklore

If you have 6+ fully golded sets congrats.

But most people want some time to enjoy the fruits of their labor from the meaningless grind.

How long ago has it been since CP160/VR16 hit? 18 months?!? I think you've had some time.

Most other MMOs change levels at least every six months and by the time ZOS raises it, IF they ever do, it'll be closer to over two years with the same level.