leveling enchanting.

nvmvoidrays · August 2016

so, is there a method to the madness? i've googled and people have said to deconstruct friends glyphs, but, i don't have friends/guildmates to do this with... and unfortunately, crafting glyphs gives you like 1/50th of a level, if that.

everything else seems to level at an OK pace. Alchemy/Provisioning blitz to the top levels with ease. i could have them at 50 now (level 28 character) if i went all out and made items. Clothing is sitting around 15 and a half. i'm not focusing on Woodworking/Blacksmithing, so, i'm not too concerned with them (right now).

... and then Enchanting is lagging behind at 11.

do i just need to grin and bear it? i know i can buy glyphs from the Guild Store, but apparently, it doesn't say which ones are crafted and which are dropped, so, if i buy the wrong ones... it's minimal XP.

Synfaer · August 2016

Lucky you were not around a launch.
Leveling enchanting is a breeze now...well not a breeze, but much much easier.

It really is better if someone else makes the runes for you. Try join a crafting guild or just ask in zone if someone can make glyphs for you (you have to supply the runes yourself though). Most people are trustworthy...at least in my experience.
You can use any essence & potency and I recommend you use green, blue or even any purple aspect runes you find (by use i mean gives these to people to make glyphs for you to decon). At end game you only really use gold Kuta's & a few purples maybe for your own glyphs so the rest can be used raising your enchanting.

Enchanting is still the hardest craft to raise to 50, but well worth it.

Tevalaur · August 2016

Almost all dropped glyphs are white (rarely green, which apparently can also be gotten from completing writs), any blue/purple glyphs are crafted; buying/trading is really the only way to make a dent in enchanting levels because of this fact. This guide includes a list of suggestions for which glyphs to purchase at which enchanting level to avoid the cap and not overspend.

And yes, leveling enchanting is extremely tedious... it's not just you.

helediron · August 2016

There is a solo method. You need to create two enchanters. If you deconstruct you own glyphs from same alt, you get very little XP, but from any other source you get full XP. This includes another alt in same account. This is a variation of "level up with a buddy", where the buddy is your own alt.

I know this sounds foolish. If making one is hard, how making two makes any sense? But there is method in this madness. @Tevalaur has a very good guide to follow. Read it carefully. If you look at the tables, you'll see that green glyphs give twice the XP from whites. farming gives quite easily green aspects, and that alone compensates the cost of making two enchanters.

Keep leveling both enchanters like climbing stairs. The helper can stop to enchanting level 30 (potency 7) or 40 (potency 9) to push the main crafter to 50.

This method allows you to use runes to level up. When you can level from runes, then only your rune stock limits leveling speed. The second advantage is that you can level up with optimal glyphs, not relying on white looted glyphs. After level 30 they turn rather useless. Look at XP from Monumental white and purple. That is the difference you need to push yourself to 50.

The helper enchanter needs to have about dozen skill points. Playing a day the alt halfway first zone should do it. At that point you need a little help from someone to teleport you to second zone capital and visit respeccing shrine and reset skill points. Put points to Enchanting/Potency improvement and Runestone Extraction whenever possible. (a helper crafter is overall useful btw.)

@Tevalaur, a little detail: green glyphs do drop from mobs. e.g. at Sentinel zombie strand.

Acharnor · August 2016

Dont forget about enchanting writs - they give xp in the skill line and net you an occasional kuta and enchanting surveys.

Bryanonymous · August 2016

Buy about 300 denata at 20g (NA/PC price... so, might be different) a piece, and the same amount of the cheapest cp160 potency, plus whatever aspect you can get for cheap, and join a trading guild. That's by far the easiest way, or you are going to suffer.

Asardes · August 2016

Don't despair. I have leveled enchanting to 50 on my main very late in the game, after I already had 200 CP+ and explored most of the base game areas. After that I just put the glyphs that dropped from mobs in the bank and deconstructed them on my alts. I'm almost done leveling enchanting on my 3rd. So you shouldn't despair yet or spend any money on crafted glyphs for deconstructing. You can just use some of the dropped glyphs to enchant your gear as you level trough the game zones. Doesn't really matter to get that extra bit stamina, health or frost damage while leveling since gear becomes obsolete fast.

Nestor · August 2016

You get the most Inspiration from deconning Mob Looted Glyphs, which is 10% more than player made glyphs. Of course the vast majority of mob glyphs are White, where a player can make Green or Blue or Purple. So, player made glyphs can accelerate the leveling, but not because your getting more because they are player made, but because players make better glyphs than you can loot.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/187809/enchanting-extraction-for-leveling-its-not-what-you-think#latest
The above was verified by a Dev. Note, you lose about 2/3 your Runes making then deconning the Glyphs, so this will cost you materials.

I am leveling enchanting on 8 characters, I have 5 of them finished. How I did was have my high levels feed them looted glyphs until they get to about 32 to 40 in enchanting. From there, I make Blue or Purples on one character and decon them on another.

If your going the straight up make the glyphs route, then use Green Aspects up to about L20, then Blue up to L35, then Purple can take you to L50. Don't forget to learn new Aspects, Essences and Potencies, you get a nice boost for learning the Rune. (Note, this boost may not be as much as it used to be, but every bit helps)

Ourorboros · August 2016

Decon, decon, decon.

Decon all looted glyphs.
Decon glyphs from other players.
Decon glyphs from alt characters.

You can decon on the cheap, from mostly looted glyphs, at the expense of taking longer to level. Or you can spend gold for runes and mass produce glyphs for the 2nd or 3rd decon options. Goes faster (though it's still slow), at the expense of bank balance. Since I've had a L50 enchanter for a long time, I save gold and level my alts with the many, many, many looted glyphs.

Tevalaur · August 2016

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Buy about 300 denata at 20g (NA/PC price... so, might be different) a piece, and the same amount of the cheapest cp160 potency, plus whatever aspect you can get for cheap, and join a trading guild. That's by far the easiest way, or you are going to suffer.

Buying Denata might make sense, don't waste the money on CP 160 instead of CP 150 potencies though in my opinion. The amount of difference between them in all ways except price won't make up for the sticker shock

Tevalaur · August 2016

helediron wrote: »

@Tevalaur, a little detail: green glyphs do drop from mobs. e.g. at Sentinel zombie strand.

Thanks for that info, I've still never seen anything but white from mobs

Nice to know you can at least get a few greens out there somewhere.

medusasfolly · August 2016

The first character is always the hardest to master. I fed all my glyphs to one character and her desconstruct in addition to doing writs every day. I got over the last 5 level hump by answer a zone call for glyph trading. We did it the risk free method: trade six glyphs, decon, repeat. So don't be afraid to send out a zone request.

My other characters were much much easier as I fed all my glyphs to the character I was working enchanting on.

One recommendation I have is not to raise your skill level on enchanting as you're trying to level it. You get more inspiration from glyphs higher than your current level. If you keep raising your skills, you need higher and higher level glyphs to gain any inspiration of note from. By keeping your enchanting skills down at a minimum, you'll be able to get inspiration from a wide variety of glyph levels.

Edited to add: When I advise not raising enchanting skill points, I specifically mean raising potency improvement. All others can be raised. Extraction definitely should be maxed out.

Bryanonymous · August 2016

Tevalaur wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Buy about 300 denata at 20g (NA/PC price... so, might be different) a piece, and the same amount of the cheapest cp160 potency, plus whatever aspect you can get for cheap, and join a trading guild. That's by far the easiest way, or you are going to suffer.

Buying Denata might make sense, don't waste the money on CP 160 instead of CP 150 potencies though in my opinion. The amount of difference between them in all ways except price won't make up for the sticker shock

I did not know there was a difference... That's why there were four choices. Derp.

Yea, I bought cp150 for sure. :P

Nestor · August 2016

Tevalaur wrote: »

Buying Denata might make sense, don't waste the money on CP 160 instead of CP 150 potencies though in my opinion. The amount of difference between them in all ways except price won't make up for the sticker shock

@Bryanonymous @Tevalaur

I have also noticed, at least with deconning Mob Looted CP160 glyphs, the Inspiration you get is quite small. On the order of 4K for a CP160 vs 8K (or more) for a CP150 glyph. This is on an L6 with L20 in enchanting, an L13 with L40 in enchanting and on a L50 with L20 in Enchanting. I don't know if this is a bug or intended, but no combo of any of my enchanters gets more than 4K Inspiration.

So, it seems to me that CP160 glyphs are not worth deconning other than to get Potencies back.

@SpAEkus Does this jive with what you found out?

Tevalaur · August 2016

@Nestor

With no bonuses to inspiration, a CP 150 glyph (Superb) should grant 3654 -7308-12205-21926 depending on quality (white-green-blue-purple). A CP 160 glyph (Truly Superb) should grant 3807-7616-12720-22851 depending on quality (white-green-blue-purple). These numbers were correct when I tested a month or two ago as long as you were not impeded by the inspiration cap due to your enchanting level.

I've never seen 8k inspiration or more from ANY white glyph, that however sounds about right for a higher quality glyph of a high tier (including green if you're ESO+ or have CP well spent). I have to wonder if your memory is conflating a green CP 150 glyph with a white CP 160 glyph here as each increase in glyph level doesn't matter anywhere near as much as glyph quality does. See detailed charts here.

Grimnir_ · August 2016

I'd be willing to help you level your enchanting. PC NA @Grimnir.Storms

Nestor · August 2016

Tevalaur wrote: »

@Nestor

I've never seen 8k inspiration or more from ANY white glyph, that however sounds about right for a higher quality glyph of a high tier (including green if you're ESO+ or have CP well spent).

@Tevalaur

I have both ESO Plus and the Inspiration Boost Passive from the Champ Tree.

The 4K and 8K figures are rounded numbers. Just to illustrate the large difference I see in deconning glyphs. The CP150's were mostly Greens so that could account for the difference there (thought I had done some whites though from my time squishing spiders in Bangkori). But, I don't remember Greens giving that much more Inspiration way back when.

The cap could have an impact on this, but since I currently have a low level with high enchanting, a low level with low enchanting and Max level with low enchanting, I am set for testing. I will test some more tonight with similar glyphs, other than levels.

nvmvoidrays · August 2016

hmm, i see, thanks for all the advice, everyone. i guess i just need to be patient with it; it's still really annoying to see my alchemy and provisioning in the 30s, clothing almost 20, but enchanting really lagging behind. i like to try and keep my trade skills level with my character level.

SpAEkus · August 2016

@Nestor

I had to get back on PTS to quickly get some CP160 Loot Glyphs as I don't have a character with L1 1/1 Enchanting on Live. And I forgot how hard it is to gather loot glyphs. Ran several group dungeons for 1Hr and only had 6 White Truly Superb.

The question to me was Loot Glyphs, not crafted. On PTS at least I never got more than a White Loot Glyph.

Decon Character Level 3 - Enchanting L1 1/1 - No CP applied - ESO Plus

White Superb CP150 Glyph - Decon for 4019 IP - MAX IP No Penalties
White Truly Superb CP160 Glyph - Decon for 4188 IP - MAX IP No Penalties

I wasn't watching close enough so I didn't catch MAX IP below L20 Enchanting but it was already max at that point. I'll have to re-run to see exactly how low the penalty ends.

Those are the exact same numbers I get for MAX IP for crafted White Superb/Truly Superb. And doesn't show the CP150 higher than CP160.

I was able to buy a few Green CP150 Loot Glyphs (not crafted on tool tip, 9g Value)

Max Decon IP - No Penalties - 8039 IP - (Same as Green Crafted CP150)

EDIT: If white is the only level we are getting from NPC Kills? I thought I'd check Enchanting Writ Glyphs as that may be what any those were that I bought.

Same result from Enchanting Writ Green CP150 Glyph - 8039 IP

If White or Green Loot glyphs at any level is all we are ever getting from combat kills, I agree that it's free, but it's not going to go faster than cheaper or free harvest Crafted Glyph decon even at CP150/160.

You can get 8698 IP (ESO Plus+) starting at Purple Moderate Crafted Glyphs (L30-40).

Tevalaur · August 2016

SpAEkus wrote: »

White Superb CP150 Glyph - Decon for 4019 IP - MAX IP No Penalties
White Truly Superb CP160 Glyph - Decon for 4188 IP - MAX IP No Penalties

I wasn't watching close enough so I didn't catch MAX IP below L20 Enchanting but it was already max at that point. I'll have to re-run to see exactly how low the penalty ends.

Hey there, @SpAEkus

The penalty hasn't ended at level 20 enchanting, but it is capped by then at 12829 -- already much higher than the 4k or so you were getting from white glyphs (at that point can get full inspiration from just about anything below purple quality). The inspiration cap reaches 4747 at enchanting level 6, so by then you won't see a penalty on white glyphs. I already ran the penalty/cap numbers for each level a bit back, you can see the resulting detailed chart here.

SpAEkus · August 2016

@Tevalaur

The penalty hasn't ended at level 20 enchanting, but it is capped by then at 12829

I have no idea what that statement has to do with the only thing I answered.

Or are you concerned with this line?

so I didn't catch MAX IP below L20 Enchanting but it was already max at that point.

I was not talking about any other glyph than the White and Green Loot Glyphs that @Nestor referenced. I only had a few glyphs to use so I couldn't do every single level of enchanting and went too fast and didn't notice I had already MAX IP for CP150 until L20.

I don't use the term Inspiration Cap and only ever post or chart saying the Maximum IP that will be returned without any penalties. Is that what has us talking past each other.

There is a Penalty applied to Glyph Decon IP Return if your Enchanting Skill Level is not within a certain range of the level of glyph used. Do you not agree with the language of that statement?

I also have posted a chart of some penalties for others to reference and I think we are both posting the same raw data just in different formats. EDIT: I just updated that link for CP to keep it straight.

Glyph Craft-Decon Penalty Data

If you decon a White CP150 Loot Glyph the maximum IP you will ever get is either your 3654, my 4019. Do we agree on that?

If you decon a White CP160 Loot Glyph the maximum IP you will ever get is your 3807, my 4188. Do we agree on that?

Yes, the max IP return for any specific glyph can be reached at various Enchanting levels, penalties are applied before then, can you agree with that statement?

Many different lower levels/colors of Glyphs can give more IP than White Loot CP150/160 Glyphs which although free, will not provide as much as fast as crafted decon. Do we agree on that?

The penalty for CP150/160 White Loot Glyphs definitely ends at L4-5 (as seen on your chart and I probably would have caught with more glyphs to use).

I only ever state raw hard numbers, and leave it to others to see which Glyph, based on their ability to source, is the best return for them.

Tevalaur · August 2016

@SpAEkus

What my post was trying to do was to save you some work. After all, in the tiny quote I made, I quoted you saying "I wasn't watching close enough so I didn't catch MAX IP below L20 Enchanting but it was already max at that point. I'll have to re-run to see exactly how low the penalty ends." Using my chart to see that for this rune it ends around level 6 depending how much inspiration boost you have, would save you the effort of "re-running to see exactly how low the penalty ends."

My original response to you (post #20) really wasn't meant to be a debate on semantics, but since your post (#21) definitely took it there... On my guide to enchanting which I linked to in my response to a very short quote from your longer post (and as such I thought made clear what I was referencing in my response), I use the term "inspiration cap" because the amount listed on this chart is the most inspiration you can gain from any glyph on deconstruction at that enchanting level. Hence, to my thinking, it is an "inspiration cap." Although a penalty normally describes the amount of something that you'd not receive and that would vary based on which glyph you're deconstructing you're more than welcome to use the term "penalty."

I don't think I really need to go through your list of questions ending with "Do we agree on that?" as I find that approach rather insulting when I was merely offering to save you some work as explained above.

edit: to clarify that I wasn't originally trying to debate semantics, but since it became such, tried to explain why I will continue calling it "inspiration cap" and not be pushed to call it a "penalty" instead (despite you bold-facing that word 4 times in post #21)

Nestor · August 2016

@Tevalaur @SpAEkus

I did some decon on some Glyphs, unfortunately, I did them on my L50 who is L20 in Enchanting. Turns out the higher figure that I stated above was from Green Superbs (I use an addon that auto decons glyphs for me so I tend to look at the Inp numbers on the screen from another addon). Anyway, for White glyphs, with ESO Plus and Champ Passive, I get 4750 for Superbs, and 4950 for Truly Superbs. One take away is it is not worth making CP160 glyphs for deconning on an alt/other player.

As for the penalty, with my low levels who are also leveling enchanting, I did not notice any real difference in the numbers from decon. I will note the numbers the next time I have a bunch to decon.

Also, if your looking for Mobs to farm glyphs, the public dungeon in Bangkori is good, so is Crimson Cove

SpAEkus · August 2016

@Tevalaur

Okay,

You could have said all that with just saying in one line that you have the full runs in a chart link. And that I wouldn't need to re-run.

You didn't do any of that until after you tried to correct me. I still have no idea what that sentence was meant to correct, but i'll leave it at that.

And you don't care about semantics but you still need to explain to me the meaning of penalty, and then give me permission to use the term. When the penalty comes before either the Inspiration Cap or the Maximum IP given, I have no idea what you want to correct me on.

Yes you have a great guide, and your chart shows our mutual data in a very good format. It's only the raw data that I ever discuss and if I am wrong I think you know I apologize when corrected.

We use different terms and we can leave it at that. That's the way I'm always going to refer to it so in the future if we both comment on the same data in a post we can acknowledge that we may both be agreeing on the same raw data. And leave the verbiage to our separate styles of communicating unless we disagree on exact raw data.

Respectfully

@Nestor

I also agree that anything white is not worth crafting for swap-decon. I still think best option is for new crafters to take either my or Tevalaur's charts and simply always try to decon the highest IP return Glyph that they can source cheaply or easily (also allowing for Tevelaur's great work on maximizing "translations" returns).

Danksta · August 2016

Tevalaur wrote: »

All dropped glyphs are white, any green/blue/purple glyphs are crafted; buying/trading is really the only way to make a dent in enchanting levels because of this fact. This guide includes a list of suggestions for which glyphs to purchase at which enchanting level to avoid the cap and not overspend.

And yes, leveling enchanting is extremely tedious... it's not just you.

That's false, you get green glyphs for completing writs.

Tevalaur · August 2016

SpAEkus wrote: »

You could have said all that with just saying in one line that you have the full runs in a chart link. And that I wouldn't need to re-run.

You didn't do any of that until after you tried to correct me. I still have no idea what that sentence was meant to correct

If you want to call it "correcting," the only thing I tried to point out with my longer-than-you-wish-it-to-have-been statement in post #20 was that some glyphs still suffer a penalty to their inspiration by deconstruction, just that no penalty affected the white glyphs because their inspiration is so low.

In other words, with post #20, I quoted a portion of your post #19 where you said "to see exactly how low the penalty ends" and tried to clarify it hadn't ended, just wasn't apparent on those particular glyphs.

Tevalaur · August 2016

Danksta wrote: »

Tevalaur wrote: »

All dropped glyphs are white, any green/blue/purple glyphs are crafted; buying/trading is really the only way to make a dent in enchanting levels because of this fact. This guide includes a list of suggestions for which glyphs to purchase at which enchanting level to avoid the cap and not overspend.

And yes, leveling enchanting is extremely tedious... it's not just you.

That's false, you get green glyphs for completing writs.

I do tend to think of "drop" as in "recovered from a body while questing" and "reward" as "coming from a writ," but nice to know another source of game-created rather than character-crafted green glyphs.

And I've acknowledged my initial statement was inaccurate earlier when @helediron pointed out I was wrong:

Tevalaur wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

@Tevalaur, a little detail: green glyphs do drop from mobs. e.g. at Sentinel zombie strand.

Thanks for that info, I've still never seen anything but white from mobs Nice to know you can at least get a few greens out there somewhere.

I've now edited my post #3 to read "Almost all dropped glyphs are white (rarely green, which apparently can also be gotten from completing writs), any blue/purple glyphs are crafted;"

Nestor · August 2016

I don't think I have ever gotten a Green Glyph as a loot drop. Maybe I did, but it would have been a rare thing if it did happen.

I do however get a Green Glyph for every (most every?) Enchanting Writ I do, and those are fed into the decon hopper.

SpAEkus · August 2016

Tevalaur wrote: »

...just that no penalty affected the white glyphs because their inspiration is so low.

...and tried to clarify it hadn't ended, just wasn't apparent on those particular glyphs.

WTH,

Those two sentences directly oppose each other. Which white glyphs are we even still talking about? CP150/160 white? Loot or Crafted? They appear to give the same IP.

And if we are still on the word "penalty", its is the exact word used by ZOS in the patch notes as far back as 1.5.2.

You will no longer receive deconstruction penalties when your skill rank in a corresponding tradeskill is high enough to craft with the material in question.

There is a penalty for decon IP returned, even on white glyphs, until a set level of Enchanting skill is reached, and it is readily apparent.

Give just a White Inferior crafted glyph to a level 1 Skill enchanter and they will not receive the maximum IP for that glyph, sure it's only a loss of 16 IP (Plus+) but the penalty is still there and it is readily apparent.

They make level 2 and they luck into a CP150 White Glyph, and they will only get 2703 IP vs 4019 MAX (Plus+).

That IP penalty for CP150 glyphs used by new crafters will rapidly end by Level 4-5 and it was still affecting them until that point.

I don't know what else to say

Tevalaur · August 2016

SpAEkus wrote: »

Tevalaur wrote: »

...just that no penalty affected the white glyphs because their inspiration is so low.
...and tried to clarify it hadn't ended, just wasn't apparent on those particular glyphs.

WTH,

Those two sentences directly oppose each other. Which white glyphs are we even still talking about? CP150/160 white? Loot or Crafted? They appear to give the same IP.

Loot or crafted doesn't matter, as we've discussed before and you state here. And yes the inspiration cap or "possible penalties" still apply at enchanting level 20, to any glyph whose deconstruction would normally yield more than 12829 inspiration. No, not talking about white CP150-160, as no white glyphs ever give more than 4k-5k inspiration, there is no penalty to WHITE glyphs at that level; there is however a penalty to purple glyphs -- and even CP160 blue glyphs -- at that enchanting level. Therefore those 2 sentences I wrote do not contradict each other, nothing at enchanting level 20 blocks full inspiration from WHITE glyphs, but there IS still a noticeable inspiration cap or "penalty" if you were to deconstruct a high enough inspiration-value glyph at that level. It exists, it just doesn't impact white and other lower-inspiration granting glyphs.

SpAEkus wrote: »

I don't know what else to say

Neither do I, it looks like you don't actually read what I write anyhow and just try to nitpick an argument tangential to anything I do say.

SirAndy · August 2016

nvmvoidrays wrote: »

so, is there a method to the madness?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3084961#Comment_3084956