Maybe ZOS needs polls to -see- what we think of their balancing job. Hey I'll make one...

KenaPKK · August 2016

Hell no, rework that mess!

@Yolokin_Swagonborn I think you're the one who's technically correct, but not practically correct about Battle Spirit being a form of a softcap.

But debating semantics gets us nowhere.

WTT @K4RMA 's body for actual game balance, ZOS pst.

arkansas_ESO · August 2016

Unchained isn't the only reason stamina vs magicka is imbalanced, it's just a small part of the puzzle. I wouldn't mind stamina having Unchained if magic had an equivalent (80% reduced cost on a single spell after using a potion is no where close to 80% reduced costs on all abilities for 3 seconds)

Yoyuyi999 · August 2016

Hell no, rework that mess!

inb4 "give magicka an unchained too!"

like, no. remove it or rework it completely. like i said in my previous thread, id rather make things fair by taking out/reworking the OP things rather than giving everyone said OP thing

Vaoh · August 2016

Hell no, rework that mess!

Can we please NOT have ridiculously overpowered Passives available from the Champion System?

It not only is seriously imbalanced to have Passives like Unchained, but it also hurts lower CP players on more than just a % damage/mitigation/sustain level.

kevlarto_ESO · August 2016

I have to chuckle when I see threads calling for arenas and small scale battle grounds, we will then see just how out of balance this game really is, it's not hard to figure out what's broken just look for certain groups using the same thing in cyrodiil.

With all the broken game mechanics in this game, sets being broken things stacking that should not stack, the discrepancy with CP points, throw in the cheat engine, there is so many things that ZOS has to address before they can even try to balance the game it is mind boggling. This does not cover everything that needs to be looked at, we can talk balance until the cows com home, but until the base game is tightened up nothing will ever be like it should.

There is the debate about soft caps, AOE, etc etc.

CapuchinSeven · August 2016

Hell no, rework that mess!

Thelon wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

it would be nice if they would do minor balance changes maybe once every 1 - 2 weeks.

balance doesn't sell boxes

This. I've known game developers, people that work in the games industry, have studied good games industry degrees, even people that have worked on MMOs and they all say the same thing.

They don't care. They don't care about balance, in fact the more they see forum rage the better they think they have your attention, the longer you'll take just to grind out for new gear/respec/roll new characters/etc. Sure they'll balance games but they ultimalty don't think balance is possible and unless it's screwing up content balance they really don't care that much.

I know many of you won't believe me, no one ever does, but they all (and I've known a lot) say the same thing. MMO developers really don't care that much about balance.

This is before we even get to population balance.

The only real chance of balance is to turn to the kickstarter MMO developers, and hopefully they'll come through.

EDIT - oh and as a side note, Unchained is really only part of the bigger problem with stamina balance.

Forestd16b14_ESO · August 2016

Oh wow another nerf stamina thread.

Yes the game needs balanced but it is not cause of stamina it cause of Wrobel and his idea of balancing. Seriouls magicka is fine stop crying about it already.

Xvorg · August 2016

Hell no, rework that mess!

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

The main problem is there is no happy middle with @Wrobel he either nerfs things into uselessness or buffs them to being extremely overpowered.

it would be nice if they would do minor balance changes maybe once every 1 - 2 weeks.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

ZOS does listen..

Unchained used to last like 10 seconds, but was reduced to 3 seconds due input from the community.

Soft caps were removed due to the community asking for it; same with Veteran Ranks.

We asked for a Malubeth fix and rebalance; we got it.

We asked for a way to handle the massive burst meta; we got it via heavy armor buffs.

There are a lot more examples.

I never asked for the removal of softcaps. Fun fact: Soft caps are STILL IN THE GAME.

Anyone remember what softcaps did? They halved your stats after a certain level. You could have 130 regen but if you had 132, it became 131.

Anyone know what battle spirit does? It halves your damage, heals and shields at ANY level.

Battle spirit is a soft cap!!!1!

Mind = Blown

But instead of intelligent, tweak-able, balance-able softcaps on individual inputs, we get one huge hatchet job softcap on outputs. This effectively makes only the most powerful skills usable.

So this game needs soft-caps, and still has soft-caps, they are just less visible but more impactful now.

I understood your post, but I just want to make it clear to people that BS is not a soft cap. It's not a cap at all. A cap stops something from going above a certain point, and a soft cap makes it so anything above that point has diminishing returns. BS is simply a balance tool that does not work.

Without asking Crown to define the word softcap for us, battle spirit essentially functions as a soft cap with a very low cap threshold. That threshold being zero. The main difference between BS and the previous softcaps is that BS gives diminishing returns to ALL values instead of only halving values after a certain point. It still functions the exact same way softcaps functioned, except it is on output damage and not input values.

The point I wanted to make is people seem to think all damage caps are removed. ZOS tried that and people were getting one-shot. The controls have to go somewhere. If you remove controls on attributes then you have to control total damage. Our damage is still getting capped but is a much more clunky way that really reduces build, gear and skill diversity in PvP because it halves BASE VALUES and not just additional boosted damage.

So people only use skills/heals/shields that can be boosted by CP or damage/attribute stacking so they overcome the reduction. Unique utility and damage sets (such as whitestrakes) that have a base value are no longer used because BS renders them ineffective and they cant be boosted enough to be viable.

You made me look into the crafted sets and what I saw was not nice.

35 sets. Around 10 are used for their 5 pcs bonus (Seducer, Hist bark, willow's, Hunding's, Julianos, Alchemist, Kagre, TBS, Morkuldin and Eternal Hunt). And no more than 5 others are used for the 2, 3 or 4 pcs bonus (being Torugs the most used, followed by NMG)

Many of them died with softcaps and BS (Night silence, whitestrakes, Lamae, Vamp kiss).Others are just behind new or revamped sets (Mara, Alessia's BW, Spectre's). Then there are those which have been always useless (Oblivion's Foe, Shaly, Orgnum, each one of them costs 8 traits, among others which are just laughable...)

Those sets are the evidence of a poor game design. Even if you take away most of the crafting stations, nobody is going to miss them.

Lokey0024 · August 2016

Lexxypwns wrote: »

When you have passives that are mandatory for all competitive builds, they're probably broken.

OdinForge wrote: »

play Overwatch

QuebraRegra · August 2016

zyk wrote: »

Battle Spirit is only a half-assed way to address power-creep in PVP.

#remeberthesoftcaps

Docmandu · August 2016

Psilent wrote: »

We asked for a way to handle the massive burst meta;

We got velidreth monster set, Viper's Sting and a buff to incap strike and dawnbreaker... yeps they listen...

Magus · August 2016

Hell no, rework that mess!

Docmandu wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

We asked for a way to handle the massive burst meta;

We got velidreth monster set, Viper's Sting and a buff to incap strike and dawnbreaker... yeps they listen...

I would give you a LOL if forums still had those