Low level Random normal dungeon: Imperial City Prison

Erzats · August 2016

I am new to ESO. Like a two week new. I know the basics right, as a main tank type of person I need to anyway, to keep up with the agro and dungeon mechanics as it is so different from other games. Up until there, I'm alright. I've got a lot of improvement the last few days in these two fields of work.

But god damn, is this dungeon hard!
It's not impossible, right, I got to the end of that f*cker a few hours ago as a random solo queu (my third different dungeon I ever do as a whole), but dear God did me and my team got crushed a bunch of time.

But this can only be me, am I saying to myself after sweating through that damn last boss. This dungeon a lvl 10 newbie could get into as is first, introductive, dungeon can't be this mechanics heavy! It must be my still in progress mastery of ESO tanking that made it seems so hard to get through!

But is it now?
How do you guys feel about this dungeon being accessible so early in the game?
Ojectively speaking, alright.
This post don't need no ''git gud'' from a lvl450 who is used to do the vet version in his optimised gear and knowledgeable self when it comes to ESO at this point in time.
I am talking for a low level newbie point of view.

Lord_Eomer · August 2016

Some dungeons including shadow of shist, imperial city are tough and not intended to be done with low level team as u must need to have 1-2 over level 50. Last bosses are not easy and requires skills that may not have unlocked at low levels.

Low levels still can do. Group finder dungeons are scaled to level 160 CP instead your team can go directly to dungeon and it will scale to leader level.

I am sure u guys can do it then easily

MattT1988 · August 2016

Prisons is the worst dungeon for your first one, apart from the brand new ones. It probably should be taken out of the random finder for normal. Learn the basics in a much easier dungeon. I'd recommend Fungal Grotto.

Level 10 is a bit low for dungeons anyway, maybe wait a few more levels, 15 or 20 maybe.

wayfarerx · August 2016

Prison is a serious dungeon, even on normal. If you made it to the last boss then you are well positioned to be really good at this game once you hit max level. Knowing what I know now, if I made it to the Warden on my third dungeon run I would be congratulating myself.

Balticthunder · August 2016

Some time ago I made post about to take out those meant for lvl50 dungeons from lvl 10 group list. Like there is dungeons which opens up as you level and still they are much easier than Prison or White Tower!
But it's futile to discus it here on forums, most answers you will get is type of "git gud" or "nah its fine, I did it with ma friends"","" you better call some friends, get Team Speak, join guild"" and all that kind.
It seems so impossible for ZOS to take those lately added dungeons to the bottom of list, so they will open up only when you reach lvl 50.
And by the way new, low level people, who struggle in these dungeons and mostly give up, they never come to this forum, so I wager there will be no real discussion here.

TheDarkoil · August 2016

Yeah this dungeon is a beast but there are no real special game mechanics that make it a lot different to the others. The problem is the bosses have really high hp and it's a long dungeon so at lower levels it takes ages to wear the bosses hp down but if you can sustain and survive for say 1 minute in a boss fight then you should really be able to keep it going for 10 minutes, at lower levels the chance of 1 person making a silly mistake that leads to a wipe is more probable but I still see it happen all the time in vet or trials with higher level players. I was in a random group for nMol last week and it took us 2 1/2 hours to complete because a few of the players could not get the mechanics into their heads which kept leading to full wipes, it was so frustrating.

Sinolai · August 2016

MattT1988 wrote: »

Prisons is the worst dungeon for your first one, apart from the brand new ones. It probably should be taken out of the random finder for normal. Learn the basics in a much easier dungeon. I'd recommend Fungal Grotto.

Level 10 is a bit low for dungeons anyway, maybe wait a few more levels, 15 or 20 maybe.

Yeah, would be nice if there was some sort of lvl filter that would remove WGT, ICP, CoS and RoM from random normal dungeon finder if you are not over lvl 30 or something. (you would still be able to go there directly) Then everyone in there would already be familiar with the basic game mechanisms.

lolo_01b16_ESO · August 2016

In my opinion the dungeons should get a rating, so new players get an idea of how difficult the different dungeons are. Additionally there should be a warning at the random dungeon finder, that you should only use it if you're comfortable helping others in any dungeon. If you are new, you can just search for specific dungeons and select all dungeons that have a difficulty that you can handle.
Removing harder dungeons from the random dungeon finder will mostly hurt newer players that don't have a good guild yet, but still want to do those dungeons. I personally often do random dungeons and have helped people to finish dungeons they never managed to beat before multiple times.

Lord_Eomer · August 2016

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

In my opinion the dungeons should get a rating, so new players get an idea of how difficult the different dungeons are. Additionally there should be a warning at the random dungeon finder, that you should only use it if you're comfortable helping others in any dungeon. If you are new, you can just search for specific dungeons and select all dungeons that have a difficulty that you can handle.
Removing harder dungeons from the random dungeon finder will mostly hurt newer players that don't have a good guild yet, but still want to do those dungeons. I personally often do random dungeons and have helped people to finish dungeons they never managed to beat before multiple times.

Never remove dungeons from Finder, instead i want ZOS to add even trials..

LadyNalcarya · August 2016

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

In my opinion the dungeons should get a rating, so new players get an idea of how difficult the different dungeons are. Additionally there should be a warning at the random dungeon finder, that you should only use it if you're comfortable helping others in any dungeon. If you are new, you can just search for specific dungeons and select all dungeons that have a difficulty that you can handle.
Removing harder dungeons from the random dungeon finder will mostly hurt newer players that don't have a good guild yet, but still want to do those dungeons. I personally often do random dungeons and have helped people to finish dungeons they never managed to beat before multiple times.

Never remove dungeons from Finder, instead i want ZOS to add even trials..

I hope it will be only for normal trials... I cant imagine all the qq of people who will choose vMoL as their first dungeon ever.

lolo_01b16_ESO · August 2016

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

In my opinion the dungeons should get a rating, so new players get an idea of how difficult the different dungeons are. Additionally there should be a warning at the random dungeon finder, that you should only use it if you're comfortable helping others in any dungeon. If you are new, you can just search for specific dungeons and select all dungeons that have a difficulty that you can handle.
Removing harder dungeons from the random dungeon finder will mostly hurt newer players that don't have a good guild yet, but still want to do those dungeons. I personally often do random dungeons and have helped people to finish dungeons they never managed to beat before multiple times.

Never remove dungeons from Finder, instead i want ZOS to add even trials..

I hope it will be only for normal trials... I cant imagine all the qq of people who will choose vMoL as their first dungeon ever.

Why, it can be a impressive experience. I still remember the day when I first entered Hel'Ra, thinking it's just another of those Craglorn 4 man dungeons.

But on a second thought, you're probably right.

GreenhaloX · August 2016

I agree that entering a dungeon via the random queuing is harder for a lower level group, but any lower level player can still do a normal dungeon. Sure, you can have the lowest level player be the leader and have the dungeon scaled down to that leader, but you would have to do it manually by walking in through that dungeon entrance versus queuing for a random. You won't get the random daily rewards XP, however, if you walk right into the entrance. If all four in your group are non-CP or championship point level, your group will surely experience much a harder time in a normal dungeon. Better to have at least 2 in the group who are higher in the CP scale.. and a decent healer.

Aside from Imperial City Prison (ICP), White Gold Tower and the two new DLC/dungeons, all other normal dungeons, even at regular CP 160 level, are doable if you have at least 2 in the mid to upper bracket of the CP scale, and a good healer. Better way, also, is to join a guild that does regular/daily dungeon runs. The guild will have many higher level players that a lower level player can hit the dungeons with.

Yes, IPC is longer and more brutal than other normal dungeons. However, there is a way to scale that down (if you can set aside not receiving the daily XP reward) so lower or new players can experience it without getting decimated every encounters with mini-bosses and the bigger ones. We tend to do that so new or lower players can have a better experience for the first time with ICP (and usually can clear it within 10 minutes when scaled down), and then we can take them through the normal CP 160, once they are higher in levels and more experienced.

Balticthunder · August 2016

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Never remove dungeons from Finder, instead i want ZOS to add even trials..

No one is asking to remove dungeons! Just put White tower, Imperial prison and two new dungeons at the bottom of the list.
Like for example you cant do Vaults of Madness at lvl 10, it opens only when you reach lvl 50, the same logic should be with those 4 new dungeons, while now they are suggested for fresh lvl 10! Why?!

BlackEar · August 2016

Balticthunder wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Never remove dungeons from Finder, instead i want ZOS to add even trials..

No one is asking to remove dungeons! Just put White tower, Imperial prison and two new dungeons at the bottom of the list.
Like for example you cant do Vaults of Madness at lvl 10, it opens only when you reach lvl 50, the same logic should be with those 4 new dungeons, while now they are suggested for fresh lvl 10! Why?!

Believe it or not some people like a challenge. Levelling content has been deemed by many to be too easy, at least we have some dungeons that are difficult.

LadyNalcarya · August 2016

Balticthunder wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Never remove dungeons from Finder, instead i want ZOS to add even trials..

No one is asking to remove dungeons! Just put White tower, Imperial prison and two new dungeons at the bottom of the list.
Like for example you cant do Vaults of Madness at lvl 10, it opens only when you reach lvl 50, the same logic should be with those 4 new dungeons, while now they are suggested for fresh lvl 10! Why?!

Thats a good point actually. Fresh players with random quest reward gear can easily be wrecked by WGT/ICP bosses even on normal mode.
And theyre not in line with lvl 10 dungeons (Fungal, BC and Spindle) difficulty-wise, so it would be fair to put them in lvl 45 category or something.

lolo_01b16_ESO · August 2016

Balticthunder wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Never remove dungeons from Finder, instead i want ZOS to add even trials..

No one is asking to remove dungeons! Just put White tower, Imperial prison and two new dungeons at the bottom of the list.
Like for example you cant do Vaults of Madness at lvl 10, it opens only when you reach lvl 50, the same logic should be with those 4 new dungeons, while now they are suggested for fresh lvl 10! Why?!

Of course you can do vaults before you reach level 50. Got there via random dungeon finder multiple times when leveling my latest character.
And yes, we need a system where players can see how difficult a dungeon is, but not tied to levels, as they are a bad indicator for a player's skill.

Erzats · August 2016

By the look of the answers, I see that the Imperial Prison is, as I though, a complex dungeon to be done early in the game. So that answers that...

I still believe it is a bad idea to put it so low on the level range for the random normal though.
I don't mind the challenge by itself. I consider having a hard time getting everything done right and having -and keeping- control over the battlefield (especially as a tank or a healer) to be a good amount of fun ''stress''.
I genuinely believe, though, that there should be a gradual progression in difficulty when it comes to introducing the dungeon aspect of the game to the new players. As it is so different from the trash mobs and even bosses you encounter on the outside world.

There is no need for a lvl 10-20 dungeon pool that consistantly hold the hands of new players so that they feel ''strong and heroic'' to only see their illusions get crushed when the game decides it's time to get down to earth. Heavy mechanic dungeons, however, should not be proposed to newbies as one of their very first dungeon's experiences. Overwhelming the players won't be of any good whatsoever.

Anyway, I've gathered the insights I needed to clear out this subject for myself. Thanks for the answers.

SantaOrc · August 2016

TheDarkoil wrote: »

Yeah this dungeon is a beast but there are no real special game mechanics that make it a lot different to the others.

The mechanics of the end boss tend to be somewhat luck dependent, speaking of portals spawning under you while you have no stam to roll out or similar. The longer it takes to kill the boss, there are more situations which can end your try just by bad luck. Based on my experience (managed to get the silver key yesterday) that boss is in fact quite special regarding game mechanics.
Edit: When i did that dungeon on non-vet is a long time ago though. I remember we didn't even use the portals ^^'

Draqone · August 2016

It's actually good for the game. Content is meant to be hard. Not all content of course, but there have to be different diffuclty levels and some things should require effort.

I had a lot of fun last night when we had a weak-ish group in Vet Spindle. Sure, the run took a while and we wiped about 5-6 times BUT it felt like an achievement and we actually got to experience some of the mechanics rather than "burn the boss down".