Appearance - race - name tokens

davey1107 · August 2016

You can take your $35 name and race change tokens and stick them in that private spot you find just below any khajiit or argonian's tail (or under any altmer's nose). No, seriously - go screw yourself ZOS. Charging the same as the cost of the game disk to change the name and race of one character is INSANE.

Suggested prices:

Appearance token: 50 crowns
Name: 100 crowns
Race: 300 crowns
Name and race: 300 crowns

Trust me...I have a marketing degree. The prices I listed will earn you WAY MORE than your highway robbery garbage.

Edited to remove bashing remark

jeedrzej · August 2016

Prices are the same like in others MMO. They wont change them.

UltimaJoe777 · August 2016

davey1107 wrote: »

You can take your $35 name and race change tokens and stick them in that private spot you find just below any khajiit or argonian's tail (or under any altmer's nose). No, seriously - go screw yourself ZOS. Charging the same as the cost of the game disk to change the name and race of one character is INSANE.

Suggested prices:

Appearance token: 50 crowns
Name: 100 crowns
Race: 300 crowns
Name and race: 300 crowns

Trust me...I have a marketing degree. The prices I listed will earn you WAY MORE than your highway robbery garbage.

You're joking right? Those prices SCREAM abuse.

Edited quoted material

Bobby_V_Rockit · August 2016

Gotta agree, 300 crowns makes it pay to win, 3000 makes it a one off change

Skinzz · August 2016

So they finally give you what u wanted but you still complain. Maybe if you created your character the way you wanted from the start and not have to follow fotm builds then you wont have to pay that amount.

Riksis · August 2016

Well, he said marketing degree, not business degree.

ZOS is a business so while they should (and most likely will) take marketing into consideration, it boils down to business numbers which might or might not follow an purely academic marketing theory.

davey1107 · August 2016

A marketing degree IS a business degree. Sigh. Gamers.

I might also mention that I work on apps and games. The old model of high price / small consumer base is over. Customers expect for minor options like this to cost a couple of bucks. A certain zombie franchise game I worked on made very good money with very low prices.

At $35 for a race and name change, how often are you going to commit to that? Once per year? At $3 per change, you bring in way more players modding their characters, it becomes a small impulse buy. At $1 per appearance change, you encourage players to customize their characters frequently.

There is also the question of what players are getting for this. Someone said "abuse." It's not abuse or an exploit to change a hairstyle. And character names are meaningless mostly. And the race...that's for what? Four passives? ZOS's pricing is nonsense. Wrothgar, with a hundred hours in distinct gameplay, is cheaper than altering one character.

I don't care what other MMOs charge. When you offer your customer a lot of cheap little things to spend on, you make more money in this industry. ZOS has way overpriced these items, so much so that I'd estimate they gave up more than 75% of potential profits on these options.

And the reason I'm critical isn't because I wanted these options - I wouldn't spend on this regardless. But when they cripple the income for the game, it means less content for those of us who love playing. That's bad for an MMO. We have what looks like a bomb DLC coming out today after two very weak, overpriced DLCs...it's not a good sign.

ADarklore · August 2016

davey1107 wrote: »

A marketing degree IS a business degree. Sigh. Gamers.

I might also mention that I work on apps and games. The old model of high price / small consumer base is over. Customers expect for minor options like this to cost a couple of bucks. A certain zombie franchise game I worked on made very good money with very low prices.

At $35 for a race and name change, how often are you going to commit to that? Once per year? At $3 per change, you bring in way more players modding their characters, it becomes a small impulse buy. At $1 per appearance change, you encourage players to customize their characters frequently.

There is also the question of what players are getting for this. Someone said "abuse." It's not abuse or an exploit to change a hairstyle. And character names are meaningless mostly. And the race...that's for what? Four passives? ZOS's pricing is nonsense. Wrothgar, with a hundred hours in distinct gameplay, is cheaper than altering one character.

I don't care what other MMOs charge. When you offer your customer a lot of cheap little things to spend on, you make more money in this industry. ZOS has way overpriced these items, so much so that I'd estimate they gave up more than 75% of potential profits on these options.

And the reason I'm critical isn't because I wanted these options - I wouldn't spend on this regardless. But when they cripple the income for the game, it means less content for those of us who love playing. That's bad for an MMO. We have what looks like a bomb DLC coming out today after two very weak, overpriced DLCs...it's not a good sign.

I love how you KNOW what ZOS' financial numbers are... I'd certainly hate to have you in my marketing department with all your assumptions based upon ZERO actual facts.

First off, ZOS knows how many people are willing to pay for what, they have their ACCOUNTING department do financial analysis to determine costs... and clearly they feel they can get this. As others have noted, other MMOs charge similar and they are successful... furthermore, I've paid for four race changes, two name changes and two appearance changes since these became available. So clearly, players ARE willing to pay these prices if they want the convenience they offer.

newtinmpls · August 2016

davey1107 wrote: »

A marketing degree IS a business degree. Sigh. Gamers.

No, it's a marketing degree. A degree in business is a business degree.

Although really, I think if one were going to bring credentials to this discussion an accounting degree would be most appropriate.

But that's just me.

davey1107 wrote: »

I might also mention that I work on apps and games.

And that would seem to me (who play only an MMORPG and have no smartphone and no apps) to be a slightly different animal. Obviously for some companies/some games it's a lucrative one. Doesn't mean all companies think/work that way.

davey1107 wrote: »

At $35 for a race and name change, how often are you going to commit to that? Once per year? At $3 per change, you bring in way more players modding their characters, it becomes a small impulse buy. At $1 per appearance change, you encourage players to customize their characters frequently.

Exactly why I think that ZoS has done a good thing. I LIKE that I can see the same "other characters" in game (and on forums).

@SantieClaws I love that you are a khajiit (sp?). I would be sad if you suddenly changed to some other race.

Since a race change "to the current meta" is a form of P2W (or can be seen that way) I want it discouraged.

davey1107 wrote: »

I don't care what other MMOs charge. When you offer your customer a lot of cheap little things to spend on, you make more money in this industry.

As you mentioned, you work in a (possibly similar but) different sector of the computer gaming industry. Your model seems to work well for some companies. Not necessarily all of them.

Cously · August 2016

It is a business, move along. Also, the way academia is going nowadays, having a degree doesn't mean much but a panel to try hide behind. Your value is measured by the amount of legal wealth you can create, not a pile of diplomas.

davey1107 · August 2016

I love how you KNOW what ZOS' financial numbers are.

Do you? Do you really love it? Like brother love or smooch buddy love?

I didn't say anything about ZOS's financials. I made a broad assessment based on the laws of economics and current consumer behavior. These tokens are all for highly elastic options in the game. And what's the cost to ZOS? They're providing a database search and update. Why not encourage high volume, low cost sales? So what if other MMOs charge the same? This doesn't make it a good price point. Regardless, ZOS doesn't compete with other games on name change fees. The "competition" is whether a player who wants to modify four character is going to look at the $140 fee and decide to buy Destiny and all its expansion packs instead.

I mean, really? You seriously think changing four characters is worth $140...which could buy three brand new games or half a console? Your post smells of Internet smarmy fibbing. Consumers don't want higher prices. The "I love high prices, why don't they charge even more" attitude is disingenuous. But if you really did just shell out like $140 for tokens, thank you for letting ZOS bend you over on those tokens. You're paying for me to play for free, which is very nice of you.

UltimaJoe777 · August 2016

They are priced high for a reason. You want it so badly? Then pay up. The price makes people think twice before constantly changing their race and/or name as if you were paying 300 gold to reskill.

The price is right, move along.

Drakoleon · August 2016

Sure the prices are reasonable!!! Name or race change costs more than DLCs......
Wtf people? Have anyone of you respect to value of money or you just kids milking your parents 30$ for your cartoon

ArchMikem · August 2016

Drakoleon wrote: »

Sure the prices are reasonable!!! Name or race change costs more than DLCs......
Wtf people? Have anyone of you respect to value of money or you just kids milking your parents 30$ for your cartoon

We're not obligated to pay, the change tokens are NOT necessary to play the game. It's purely a cosmetic consumer item. Besides, "Reasonable" is a loose term here. If you wanted to sell me something like a Crafting Motif, you'd want to charge some pretty coin for it and I'd start complaining about highway robbery. Prices aren't set by the buyer, or else everything would be cheap and then value would cease to exist.

I would say the prices are fair enough. 1,000 crowns for an Appearance change isn't bad at all. I got three of those. Race Change? Why do you want to change your whole Race? Just make a new character, and if you already maxed out your slots, then surely you already have a character of that Race, and if you don't, buy another slot, or delete one of your characters to free up a space. And Name Change? What point is there in caring about your character's name when other people pay more attention to your Gamertag.

BlackSparrow · August 2016

davey1107 wrote: »

I might also mention that I work on apps and games. The old model of high price / small consumer base is over. Customers expect for minor options like this to cost a couple of bucks. A certain zombie franchise game I worked on made very good money with very low prices.

At $35 for a race and name change, how often are you going to commit to that? Once per year? At $3 per change, you bring in way more players modding their characters, it becomes a small impulse buy. At $1 per appearance change, you encourage players to customize their characters frequently.

This makes sense in the world of mobile and social media apps, where micro-sized impulse buy reigns supreme. But as others have said, MMOs are a slightly different beast. Especially one that is trying to emulate the immersion of the Elder Scrolls games.

In the TES series, the focus has always been on providing an expansive world where you take a character from nothing to godhood (metaphorically, with exceptions

). You get attached to who your character is and what they've done (or you're supposed to get attached, anyway). Repeatedly having people swapping names, appearance, and race breaks that immersion factor not just for the person making the change, but for anyone who might have been close to them in-game as well (friends, guildies) as they're suddenly interacting with someone who, on a cosmetic level, appears to be a different person. Allowing everyone to start swapping their races to the flavor-of-the-month on a whim is not the game the devs set out to make, even if part of the player base does use it that way.

If anything, they may actually be trying to discourage the very thing you put forward as the goal. ZOS clearly understands encouraging impulse buys when it comes to pets and costumes, so pricing this as it is priced was likely an active decision. Those who really want to do it will do so, and those who are just doing it because they're kinda bored of how their character looks this week won't.

You can disagree with their price points and express that disagreement, but don't treat those of us who disagree with your disagreement like we're stupid or don't understand the situation. Pricing for something like this is entirely subjective, so I'm not surprised they went with market value on it.

davey1107 · August 2016

@newtinmpls It depends on which college you attend and what their accreditation is, but my "marketing degree" from USC is actually a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration majoring in marketing and finance with a minor in macroeconomics.

But that was long to type, so I said marketing degree.

ADarklore · August 2016

davey1107 wrote: »

I love how you KNOW what ZOS' financial numbers are.

Do you? Do you really love it? Like brother love or smooch buddy love?

I didn't say anything about ZOS's financials. I made a broad assessment based on the laws of economics and current consumer behavior. These tokens are all for highly elastic options in the game. And what's the cost to ZOS? They're providing a database search and update. Why not encourage high volume, low cost sales? So what if other MMOs charge the same? This doesn't make it a good price point. Regardless, ZOS doesn't compete with other games on name change fees. The "competition" is whether a player who wants to modify four character is going to look at the $140 fee and decide to buy Destiny and all its expansion packs instead.

I mean, really? You seriously think changing four characters is worth $140...which could buy three brand new games or half a console? Your post smells of Internet smarmy fibbing. Consumers don't want higher prices. The "I love high prices, why don't they charge even more" attitude is disingenuous. But if you really did just shell out like $140 for tokens, thank you for letting ZOS bend you over on those tokens. You're paying for me to play for free, which is very nice of you.

"Do you? Do you really love it? Like brother love or smooch buddy love?" Yep, this is exactly what you'd expect from 'college educated' these days.

Furthermore, would you make more money if 1000 people bought an item for $3, or if 500 people bought an item for $10?

Also, it's cheaper 'time-wise' to pay for a race/name change than it is to invest in upgrading mounts on a new character along with all the time invested in questing and leveling skills- especially Fighters/Mages guild skills. People think that "oh just create a new character' but they forget about all the time investment in leveling skills along with the fact that, what, you're just going to leave all the quests empty? Perhaps if you only care about PvP, but if you're a PvE quester, then yes... paying to race/name change is worth the price in both time and money savings long-run (especially in mount upgrades).

AmberLaTerra · August 2016

while I do think the OPs price changes are insane. ESO is not some crappy little app that someone will play for 2 weeks spend 10 bucks in the cash shop on then delete for some other app so those prices make absolutely no sense for a game that is looking at the look term and not just trying to hook in ADD stricken millennials who can't stick with one game for long like most apps are and need to get their purchases in a short time.

What does not make sense to me is how it costs twice as many crowns to race change as it costs to buy an additional character slot. I mean with proper grinding zones level 50 can be reached in less then 8 hours of play time so why is it 50% cheaper to roll out a new char in a different race then to change the race of an existing one? If anything I think race change should be dropped to the same 1500 crowns as additional char slots, or the additional slots should be bumped up to match the price of race change.

Those 2 crown items at their current prices just don't seem to fit what they do.

petraeus1 · August 2016

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

They are priced high for a reason. You want it so badly? Then pay up. The price makes people think twice before constantly changing their race and/or name as if you were paying 300 gold to reskill.

The price is right, move along.

What. Why does anyone care if a player changes their character a million times. It's not your character. They can change pretty much anything a million times, why should change of race and/or name be inhibited, why is changing that worse than other changes and why does it affect anyone else rather than the player involved?

And to people saying cheap race change encourages enforcing of minmax race changes, frankly it would have been better if racial passives did not affect combat stats rather than inhibiting people who want to make a cosmetic change.

In the end for me it's simple, I'm not gonna buy anything from the Style Parlor exactly because of the price point. But aforementioned defense of the pricepoint I never understood.

Leandor · August 2016

davey1107 wrote: »

Trust me...I have a marketing degree.

Instant credibility, mate.

/sarcasm.

Darth_Trumpious · August 2016

I came to a game forum in order to escape the advertisements from businessmen/salesmen/industry experts/life changing guru etc

And here I am, being labelled as a stupid gamer and educated by a marketing expert on his university degree and career path...

Tessie · August 2016

davey1107 wrote: »

@newtinmpls It depends on which college you attend and what their accreditation is, but my "marketing degree" from USC is actually a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration majoring in marketing and finance with a minor in macroeconomics.

But that was long to type, so I said marketing degree.

5,500 crowns cost $39.99 USD when not on sale. That means 3500 crowns would cost $25.45 USD.

So, what kind of school is USC where they don't require basic math for people majoring in finance?

MornaBaine · August 2016

I agree that the prices are outrageous and I've ended up buying far fewer crowns than I would have had they been more reasonable. But it seems to me that pricing is no longer done according to what is fair or reasonable. It's done solely according to what the market will bear. This seems to be true with most things these days so, while extremely disappointing, it's not surprising.

Sinolai · August 2016

Race and Name are something that you are not supposed to switch once a week. The tokens are meant for players who are not happy with the choices they made when they started playing and don't want to start it all over again. Thus I think the race and name change token prices are fair.

Appearance however feels overpriced as there is no other way to change your style (well there is the hairstyle pack but it also costs 1k crowns and doesn't include beard styles, hair colour or adronements). I really would have wanted to see a real in game barbershop and perhaps even Dremora flesh sculptor in Coldharbour (there already is a dremora merchant. Why not a flesh sculptor selling his services (for crowns?)?

)

BalticBlues · August 2016

The OP is spot on. I can confirm everything he says in our household. While the members of our family had some interest in changing names, appearance, colors etc., all the thoughts about it were gone the minute the ridiculous pricing was revealed. For such prices, we rather buy real games, real clothes or other real stuff, not virtual name/appearance tokens.

Let's make a fair assumption:

ESO has about 8.000.000 players.
Let's assume there are 25% active players, like 2.000.000 players.
Let's assume that 25% of them would like to change their name, like 500.000 players.
Let's assume that 5% are willing to pay 25$ per character, this would be 25.000 x $25 = $625.000.
Let's assume that 50% are willing to pay 5$ per character, this would be 250.000 x $5 = $1.250.000.

ZOS could easily double revenues by selling things at fair prices instead of highway robbery. In our family, we spent actually $0 on name changes, race changes etc. It is not because we are poor, it is because we know the value of money, and these tokens are not worth their prices.

NewBlacksmurf · August 2016

The only thing that should cost each time you change is
-gender
-name
-race
-faction
*class

Everything else should charge once and be done like the hairstyles and 1,000 crowns is acceptable.
I'm suggesting that the parlor should be 1,000 for a one time cost account wide.

Bigevilpeter · August 2016

Its way too overpriced, but addicted nerds will pay whatever ZOS asks so they can put almost any price they want.

Nermy · August 2016

ADarklore wrote: »

First off, ZOS knows how many people are willing to pay for what, they have their ACCOUNTING department do financial analysis to determine costs... and clearly they feel they can get this. As others have noted, other MMOs charge similar and they are successful... furthermore, I've paid for four race changes, two name changes and two appearance changes since these became available. So clearly, players ARE willing to pay these prices if they want the convenience they offer.

I hope you remembered to update your sig...

I think the prices are very reasonable. There will always be the complainers and detractors and ZoS knows this only too well. I've already paid for an appearance change and have a name change to use, when I think of a suitable name!

NewBlacksmurf · August 2016

Nermy wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

First off, ZOS knows how many people are willing to pay for what, they have their ACCOUNTING department do financial analysis to determine costs... and clearly they feel they can get this. As others have noted, other MMOs charge similar and they are successful... furthermore, I've paid for four race changes, two name changes and two appearance changes since these became available. So clearly, players ARE willing to pay these prices if they want the convenience they offer.

I hope you remembered to update your sig...

I think the prices are very reasonable. There will always be the complainers and detractors and ZoS knows this only too well. I've already paid for an appearance change and have a name change to use, when I think of a suitable name!

I think you're wrong.

ZOS understands crown buying habits and for sure they can track where crowns are spent but understand that because crowns come in packs, bundles, ESO plus bundles and discounts...

ZOS is far off in their pricing of most crown items.
Many argue that the prices are similar to XYZ other MMO's but upon further evaluation ZOS is actually far more overpriced.

See no other games are positioning real money for a sub service requirement, exclusively locking in game features behind a sub, or exclusive to only a real money transaction as well as releasing real money DLC as frequent.

I played a few different F2P and sub required MMOs with and without DLC or major expansions.
I've spent more on ESO than any other game in 10 years regardless of the game type just for basic access. I'm approaching having spent more on this than WoW where I subbed for 8+ years off and on in 2 year spans.

If you slow down and actually calculate the cost per quarter and compare that to other games over the last 10 years. This game is charging waaaay more for less

As such, those suggesting these items are overpriced are correct.
Consider the specific feature cost in addition to other real money requirements just to have QoL gameplay here.
It's waaaay overpriced bud....and this is from a guy who gladly spends $75 a quarter on this and I won't even buy motif, bankers, and most crown consumables.

I do have ESO plus and I do own all DLC

idk · August 2016

davey1107 wrote: »

You can take your $35 name and race change tokens and stick them in that private spot you find just below any khajiit or argonian's tail (or under any altmer's nose). No, seriously - go screw yourself ZOS. Charging the same as the cost of the game disk to change the name and race of one character is INSANE.

Suggested prices:

Appearance token: 50 crowns
Name: 100 crowns
Race: 300 crowns
Name and race: 300 crowns

Trust me...I have a marketing degree. The prices I listed will earn you WAY MORE than your highway robbery garbage.

Edited to remove bashing remark

These price suggestions are humorously absurd.

Maybe OP would like his $9/hr wage cut to $2/hr. Seriously.

Oh btw. The race change is selling like hot cakes. I know many who have changed race on multiple characters.

PS4_ZeColmeia · August 2016

They have options that are cheaper

Free: make a new character

Slightly more expensive: add a slot then make a new character.

____________

I know no one wants to do the work over again. I only have 1 character so the race change WAS my only option, but again its a convenience item considering there are other options. It's not abuse, it's paying for convenience.