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Maybe ZOS needs polls to -see- what we think of their balancing job. Hey I'll make one...
KenaPKK
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Unchained is balanced.
I'm so over this game's balancing. All stamina classes and magicka Templar are at an entirely different level than the other magicka classes.
Edited by KenaPKK on August 16, 2016 1:55PM I'm so over this game's balancing. All stamina classes and magicka Templar are at an entirely different level than the other magicka classes.
Kena
Former Class Rep
Former Legend GM
Beta player
Former Class Rep
Former Legend GM
Beta player
Maybe ZOS needs polls to -see- what we think of their balancing job. Hey I'll make one... 97 votes
Yes. Unchained is not a source of magicka/stamina imbalance.
20%
20 votes
Hell no, rework that mess!
79%
77 votes
2
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OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Save your breath Kena, do you know the amount of work ZOS would need to do in order to balance this game the right way. DB and Hist are the closest we're going to get to generic balance for a very long time, ZOS isn't going to do anything major before Tamriel One.
They obviously don't care about these threads, they've historically almost never taken the user feedback. Not even QA feedback from PTS.
We're in the Age of Wrobel now, ride out the storm in peace or play Overwatch with me.The Age of Wrobel.7 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hell no, rework that mess!Unchained is as balanced as a passive 80% decrease to magicka cost after using a damage shield would be to mag builds.1 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hell no, rework that mess!That passive is [SNIP]. The whole Champion system is [SNIP]. Major Evasion, snares on everything, snare immunity, massive burst damage everywhere, Incap Strike, gap closers - all [SNIP].
ZOS doesn't have a damned clue how to game design. But on the bright side, combat still feels pretty good.
[edited for language]Edited by ZOS_PeterT on August 16, 2016 2:50PM2 -
mtwiggz✭✭✭✭✭Yes. Unchained is not a source of magicka/stamina imbalance.I just want a Unicorn mount.3
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Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Evidence of how well polls work:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/88049/do-you-think-there-should-be-an-aoe-cap/p1Save your breath Kena, do you know the amount of work ZOS would need to do in order to balance this game the right way. DB and Hist are the closest we're going to get to generic balance for a very long time, ZOS isn't going to do anything major before Tamriel One.
They obviously don't care about these threads, they've historically almost never taken the user feedback. Not even QA feedback from PTS.
We're in the Age of Wrobel now, ride out the storm in peace or play Overwatch with me.
I'll agree about the PTS feedback, but the bolded part is really just untrue. There have been a few changes that made me scratch my head and think, "well nobody even asked for that". However, the majority of changes and the ones that have had the most negative impact on the game were asked for by a lot more people than not. The community is a lot larger than this sub-forum and cyrodiil in general really. Even when there were representatives of the much larger PvP community of the past their ideas and suggestions were mostly passed over in favor of what else ZOS saw a lot of people complaining about. I guess I'm just saying that even if you have the best idea ever, if ZOS doesn't listen to it that doesn't mean they're ignoring everyone.6 -
Psilent✭✭✭✭✭
ZOS does listen..
Unchained used to last like 10 seconds, but was reduced to 3 seconds due input from the community.
Soft caps were removed due to the community asking for it; same with Veteran Ranks.
We asked for a Malubeth fix and rebalance; we got it.
We asked for a way to handle the massive burst meta; we got it via heavy armor buffs.
There are a lot more examples.Edited by Psilent on August 16, 2016 3:27PM3 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Save your breath Kena, do you know the amount of work ZOS would need to do in order to balance this game the right way. DB and Hist are the closest we're going to get to generic balance for a very long time, ZOS isn't going to do anything major before Tamriel One.
They obviously don't care about these threads, they've historically almost never taken the user feedback. Not even QA feedback from PTS.
We're in the Age of Wrobel now, ride out the storm in peace or play Overwatch with me.
Actually ZOS takes a lot of feedback into consideration. They just don't do everything you say.
IMO, they should be listening to some things less. After all the removal of softcaps, which is the root cause to most of the issues we have now, was highly requested by the community. The champion system is also the result of community feedback about the veteran system. Mindlessly easy DLC content is the result of community feedback about the game being too difficult.Edited by timidobserver on August 16, 2016 3:32PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
Pandorii✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kena, the options are pretty limiting.
I am strongly of ZOS revisiting class balance. I know it will be difficult, given the way they designed their game. I don't think that it should be ignored. Stamina classes would like that, wouldn't they?
I am hopeful that we will see changes in the future. Not seeing changes soon will simply drive me away (and others). It wouldn't be the first time.1 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hell no, rework that mess!This is my 5th MMO. Their lack of ability (or is it availability) to create a generally balaced game far surpasses any other MMO I have ever played. They get an F+ on that. Its not just balance either, its coding. Most games have essential functions like gap closers and group formation working at release. Not here though, its still being worked on. When most games have already expanded the class trees we are still getting original skills to function.
When a direct competitor releases a game people will have no reason to put up with the inadequacies of this game. They have a lot to be proud of, but also a lot that they should be absolutely ashamed of.Edited by Armitas on August 16, 2016 3:48PMRetired.
Nord mDK9 -
Skitttles✭✭✭✭Hell no, rework that mess!We are all slowly withering away with this game.Skittles | DC Stem Sok and sumtimes Nertbled2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hell no, rework that mess!This is my 5th MMO. Their lack of ability (or is it availability) to create a generally balaced game far surpasses any other MMO I have ever played. They get an F+ on that. Its not just balance either, its coding. Most games have essential functions like gap closers and group formation working at release. Not here though, its still being worked on. When most games have already expanded the class trees we are still getting original skills to function.
When a direct competitor releases a game people will have no reason to put up with the inadequacies of this game. They have a lot to be proud of, but also a lot that they should be absolutely ashamed of.
The only ones that i´ve played with similar balance issues were aionEU and certain patches of daoc. Both of those were severely hindered by their EU publisher (i.e.: daoc balance patches for EU would take 3 to 6 months of localisation resulting in massive imbalance preknown to everyone reading the US forums).
For both games it was not to blame on the developer directly but the EU publisher.
Also i´d still like to know what @Wrobel has in mind for sorcerers. Templars got their house that you´re not supposed to enter bc it´s going to be bad for you. Sorcs still have silly unusable pets and - well what else?
What´s the general idea of the sorcerers class design. Tell us what you have in mind for your baby.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Thelon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hell no, rework that mess!
i lol'dtimidobserver wrote: »The champion system is also the result of community feedback
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Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
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ZOS does listen..
Unchained used to last like 10 seconds, but was reduced to 3 seconds due input from the community.
Soft caps were removed due to the community asking for it; same with Veteran Ranks.
We asked for a Malubeth fix and rebalance; we got it.
We asked for a way to handle the massive burst meta; we got it via heavy armor buffs.
There are a lot more examples.
I never asked for the removal of softcaps. Fun fact: Soft caps are STILL IN THE GAME.
Anyone remember what softcaps did? They halved your stats after a certain level. You could have 130 regen but if you had 132, it became 131.
Anyone know what battle spirit does? It halves your damage, heals and shields at ANY level.
Battle spirit is a soft cap!!!1!
Mind = Blown
But instead of intelligent, tweak-able, balance-able softcaps on individual inputs, we get one huge hatchet job softcap on outputs. This effectively makes only the most powerful skills usable.
So this game needs soft-caps, and still has soft-caps, they are just less visible but more impactful now.
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dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
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ZOS does listen..
Soft caps were removed due to the community asking for it.
those those blind folks were the reason we are in this horrid damage meta crap.
we just needed higher base soft cap and things would have worked out fine.
PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.2 -
tnbdareSoul ShrivenThis most likely will get lost in the abyss of this forum, however, this will illustrate the hate for some players builds that are invincible.
I would like to propose a new skill from the Dark Brotherhood Tree for PVP: "Black Sacrament" cost full stamina bar, debuff caster unable to receive healing. Effect: target unable to receive healing as long as the caster is alive.0 -
LrdRahvin✭✭✭✭✭I didn't vote because there was no option for: "It doesn't matter because the server is down."3 -
Manoekin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The main problem is there is no happy middle with @Wrobel he either nerfs things into uselessness or buffs them to being extremely overpowered.
it would be nice if they would do minor balance changes maybe once every 1 - 2 weeks.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »
ZOS does listen..
Unchained used to last like 10 seconds, but was reduced to 3 seconds due input from the community.
Soft caps were removed due to the community asking for it; same with Veteran Ranks.
We asked for a Malubeth fix and rebalance; we got it.
We asked for a way to handle the massive burst meta; we got it via heavy armor buffs.
There are a lot more examples.
I never asked for the removal of softcaps. Fun fact: Soft caps are STILL IN THE GAME.
Anyone remember what softcaps did? They halved your stats after a certain level. You could have 130 regen but if you had 132, it became 131.
Anyone know what battle spirit does? It halves your damage, heals and shields at ANY level.
Battle spirit is a soft cap!!!1!
Mind = Blown
But instead of intelligent, tweak-able, balance-able softcaps on individual inputs, we get one huge hatchet job softcap on outputs. This effectively makes only the most powerful skills usable.
So this game needs soft-caps, and still has soft-caps, they are just less visible but more impactful now.
I understood your post, but I just want to make it clear to people that BS is not a soft cap. It's not a cap at all. A cap stops something from going above a certain point, and a soft cap makes it so anything above that point has diminishing returns. BS is simply a balance tool that does not work.2 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hell no, rework that mess!Battle Spirit is only a half-assed way to address power-creep in PVP.
1 -
Magus✭✭✭✭✭Hell no, rework that mess!Just troll people and swap arcane well with unchained, so magicka builds get unchained. Trololol.
Edit: nevermind, they get it anyway unless they are shield stackers.Edited by Magus on August 16, 2016 7:59PMDuraeon / Maoh
Former Emperor of Haderus, Trueflame, and Azura's Star
PC/NA0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hell no, rework that mess!The current balance is very much biased in favor of stamina.
For example, where is the equivalent of silence that would shut down stamina abilities the way silence shuts down spellcasting?3 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The main problem is there is no happy middle with @Wrobel he either nerfs things into uselessness or buffs them to being extremely overpowered.
it would be nice if they would do minor balance changes maybe once every 1 - 2 weeks.Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »
ZOS does listen..
Unchained used to last like 10 seconds, but was reduced to 3 seconds due input from the community.
Soft caps were removed due to the community asking for it; same with Veteran Ranks.
We asked for a Malubeth fix and rebalance; we got it.
We asked for a way to handle the massive burst meta; we got it via heavy armor buffs.
There are a lot more examples.
I never asked for the removal of softcaps. Fun fact: Soft caps are STILL IN THE GAME.
Anyone remember what softcaps did? They halved your stats after a certain level. You could have 130 regen but if you had 132, it became 131.
Anyone know what battle spirit does? It halves your damage, heals and shields at ANY level.
Battle spirit is a soft cap!!!1!
Mind = Blown
But instead of intelligent, tweak-able, balance-able softcaps on individual inputs, we get one huge hatchet job softcap on outputs. This effectively makes only the most powerful skills usable.
So this game needs soft-caps, and still has soft-caps, they are just less visible but more impactful now.
I understood your post, but I just want to make it clear to people that BS is not a soft cap. It's not a cap at all. A cap stops something from going above a certain point, and a soft cap makes it so anything above that point has diminishing returns. BS is simply a balance tool that does not work.
Without asking Crown to define the word softcap for us, battle spirit essentially functions as a soft cap with a very low cap threshold. That threshold being zero. The main difference between BS and the previous softcaps is that BS gives diminishing returns to ALL values instead of only halving values after a certain point. It still functions the exact same way softcaps functioned, except it is on output damage and not input values.
The point I wanted to make is people seem to think all damage caps are removed. ZOS tried that and people were getting one-shot. The controls have to go somewhere. If you remove controls on attributes then you have to control total damage. Our damage is still getting capped but is a much more clunky way that really reduces build, gear and skill diversity in PvP because it halves BASE VALUES and not just additional boosted damage.
So people only use skills/heals/shields that can be boosted by CP or damage/attribute stacking so they overcome the reduction. Unique utility and damage sets (such as whitestrakes) that have a base value are no longer used because BS renders them ineffective and they cant be boosted enough to be viable.
Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on August 17, 2016 7:55PM0
