Sorcerer nerfs

bowmanz607 · August 2016

Fields1816 wrote: »

I have all 4 character classes and after all these updates I feel the sorcerer has been nerfed way to much. IMO its the weakest class now. I admit at launch the sorcerer was op in pvp. In imperial city they cut the harden ward in half and made an armour set to bypass it completely. Now it has been nerfed again to 1/3 of its time. Now while doing this they buffed all other classes and basically gave them all the same shield. Every class has its strong points that make them unique, dragon knight for its toughness, Templar for its heals, nightblade for its stealth. As of now the Sorcerer has none. IMO they need to restore it back to how it was to begin with and make shields critable.

Ugghhh. What is funny is how I thought this would be a meaningful thread about genuine issues with mag sorc. But no it is another person who is whining about shields. Listenot, shields are fine. Shield breaker only operates as an execute for sorcs. Sorcs shield is not tied to light armor like the one available to all. Sorcs can still stack shielda. The lower duration shields has little practical effect on a sorc because in a fight your shields are being refreshed inside that time. For pve you have a longer duration morph.

Yes mag sorcs have their issues and probably more so than any other except mag dk. However, the shields have nothing to do with it.

Emma_Overload · August 2016

Fields1816 wrote: »

Ive been running all 4 character classes since launch and my sorcerer has been my favorite. However now i always feel like im at a disadvantage in pvp. PVE it doesnt effect me as much. For example on my NB i feel like i should never lose a 1v1 against a sorcerer and i rarely do unless i just totally screw up or lag. Now on my sorcerer i feel like i should never win a 1v1 against a NB or Templar unless they mess up. The problem is you have to focus so much on survival you cant focus on damage. This is also why when you go to cyrodiil 90 percent of people are nb or Templar. Its got almost laughable how they have treated the sorcerer.

Quoted for truth... I was just about to say something like this. I've been playing a lot of PvP in the IC since Update 11, and it's obvious where the Sorcerer falls short.

Ironically, it's not the shield nerf that's causing the most trouble, but our lack of damage output relative to other classes. My usual rotation of Curse/Pulse/Frags doesn't put nearly enough pressure on opponents who are able to dish out so much more damage. Proxy got nerfed so that it's no good for single target. Dawnbreaker got nerfed for magicka builds. Dodge rollers and shuffle stackers just shrug off your Overload attacks, etc etc.

ZOS needs to take a hard look at Sorc abilities versus the current PvP meta. Hopefully they will see that our sustained damage output needs to be improved so that we can put pressure on our opponents.

Thelon · August 2016

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Hopefully

too late...

Cronopoly · August 2016

As we all play Stam and Mag toons, I have to ask Stamina Main PVPer's, are you getting rolled by Magicka Sorcs?

Magicka classes in general have been majorly shafted - compared to their Massive Burst Damage / High Hot Healing, 100% damage immunity, dodge rolling Stamina counterparts. (Except Templar with major mending insta heals, Hots, nice Jesus Beam Execute = pretty loaded)

Stamina favored Dodge Roll:
If 20 people lined up and cast ranged / melee attacks at a dodge roller how many would hit? We've all seen it in action...
Commonly none would hit = 100% damage immunity from ALL normal single target PVP attacks. The few PVE like AOE abilities aren't generally used as they are less effective, so in PVP it ends up being none. (Oh almost forgot a lightning staff HA will tickle the target... More like a tracer round.)

Magicka Shields:
If the same 20 people attacked a Sorc with shields up, and spammed over and over. How long could the Sorc last? God couldn't save him or her. XD

Range vs Melee:
The old paradigm of spammable Melee hits getting high bonuses to damage as they are next to the enemy risking damage themselves. This is currently ONLY balanced Melee vs Melee. Melee vs paper wearing Light armor is laughable as 1 hit tears any shield to shreds(sharpened+CP) and forces the Magica user 100% defensive.

Ranged Casters - All Burst Damage class abilities can be reflected or Dodged easily. Those recently attempting the experimental Lightning Staff Tickle Heavy Attack basically find out that it's easily matched in healing by either Rally or, Vigor and out-healed easily with both applied. It's a shallow victory though. "Ha, I hit something" is what you end up saying.

There's several more mechanics that are just as broken for competitive play. I dare say that outside of the top 1% of Mag Sorc players, a Stamina class would be more beneficial to PVP groups.

The Pet line in. Daedroth set?

It's sad when I've had more fun with the Morkuldin Sword proc on a damn Stamina alt than the Daderoth Monster set.
also is there some reason in the known universe that Control of pets is in the stone ages compared to all other MMO's? shocked at the lack of control, nay say disregard in this case...

Minalan · August 2016

kongkim wrote: »

You say all classes has their thing.
Sorcs is the only pet class. So buff that and let every one have shields.

You can keep your stupid pets.

We want a viable combat class without the zoo.

Bromburak · August 2016

Minalan wrote:

You can keep your stupid pets.

We want a viable combat class without the zoo.

You will love this 2 year old necro.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1432672/#Comment_1432672

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1432783/#Comment_1432783

Vaoh · August 2016

ReeKs wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

The problem is that most Sorcs cannot deal with incoming damage because physical bursts are over the top nowadays.
Random sorcs cannot gain control over a fight because they are pushed into a defensive play style by spamming shields to survive the pressure. They simply don't have the tools and player skill for the right answer as soon they have to fight decent opponents.

What basically happens is that these random Sorcs are trying to play Heavy Armor to make the experience that they survive but suffering so much damage that fights end up in a tie because both opponents have not the power to kill each other.

What most of the Tops Sorcs do without gimping themselves is playing a very aggressive style for more pressure
by having shields up without spamming them. But playing aggressive Sorcs requires skill , it's playing the class at it's limit and doesn't allow any mistakes. However the problem are not the shields the problem is that physical damage is out of control.

That bolded part right there!

It's the key to being a strong player. A great player. That aggresiveness requires Total Mastery of your Class Spec.

This means:
• Hundreds of hours of experience. Testing out all your skills to see what does and doesn't work. Perfecting your build and being able to know how long buffs last, how much damage your burst generally does, etc.
• Fast reaction time. Knowing exactly what to expect from the meta players and every enemy you fight, whether they are Magicka or Stamina.
• Never making a mistake even when under pressure. Skipping even a single animation cancelled skill is detrimental in this meta. With how little shields protect you now versus Stamina burst, even one failed shield cast can mean instant death.
• Limits of your Build. Being able to fight to the very limits of your build. I run vMA a few times when I grind an Alt to get a good feel for the class spec. Knowing your limits makes you dangerous.

All of this is necessary when fighting aggressively. Those are the players who are 1vXing.

I only run solo on my Magicka Sorc because I put in the time, have the skill, and know exactly what I'm capable of. Without that, I couldn't play aggresively and would get rolled over like all of the Magicka Sorcs I fight

Have you actually been to cyrodiil and seen what it's like for magsorcs?

It's all good benign a aggressive sorcerer but what about those new magsorcs (if there's any) who enter cyrodiil, they're going find it extremely hard when it comes to defending whilst still being able to attack.

I play a sorc (since launch) and trust me I know how to play aggressively but answer me these questions.

Why do you think the decrease in magsorcs is happening?

Why's there so many temp/DK running around well overpowered? Not to mention nightblades who imo are currently owning pvp.

Do you find it fair that sorcs have to put in so much hour to be any good on cyrodiil whilst the other classes just need good armor and one or two specific skills from their skill list and bam that's it's they're an expert?

Like I said I've been playing a sorc since launch so I've already put in the hours to be that good player you're talking about but for new players who hasn't played a sorc before wanting to, they're going to NEED to play and put in those hour, learn how to combo etc.

And for those complaint about streak, after 3 or 4 streaks depending on how much max magicka you have, streaking again can put you at risk coz of the cost of every next streak so it may look easy for sorcs to escape but it isn't most of the time.

Read my other posts on this very thread. The posts you AGREED with.

What I said here is in no way saying Magicka Sorcs are good (you're arguing the same points I made lol).

I'm saying the only way to even be dangerous with a Magicka Sorcerer is to totally master your class to be able to use that aggressive playstyle without a single slip up.

THIS IS TERRIBLE.

Very few Sorcs or players in general will ever even be able to play a class like that at its best. The fact that you need that sort of experience to not get run over on a Magicka Sorc is very, very bad.

SanTii.92 · August 2016

Try 4 elegant, 4 shadow dancer. Or 3 elegant, 4 shadow dancer, engine guardian willpower. Enjoy easy mode pvp and stop whining for god sake. You can thank me later.

ReeKs · August 2016

Vaoh wrote: »

ReeKs wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

The problem is that most Sorcs cannot deal with incoming damage because physical bursts are over the top nowadays.
Random sorcs cannot gain control over a fight because they are pushed into a defensive play style by spamming shields to survive the pressure. They simply don't have the tools and player skill for the right answer as soon they have to fight decent opponents.

What basically happens is that these random Sorcs are trying to play Heavy Armor to make the experience that they survive but suffering so much damage that fights end up in a tie because both opponents have not the power to kill each other.

What most of the Tops Sorcs do without gimping themselves is playing a very aggressive style for more pressure
by having shields up without spamming them. But playing aggressive Sorcs requires skill , it's playing the class at it's limit and doesn't allow any mistakes. However the problem are not the shields the problem is that physical damage is out of control.

That bolded part right there!

It's the key to being a strong player. A great player. That aggresiveness requires Total Mastery of your Class Spec.

This means:
• Hundreds of hours of experience. Testing out all your skills to see what does and doesn't work. Perfecting your build and being able to know how long buffs last, how much damage your burst generally does, etc.
• Fast reaction time. Knowing exactly what to expect from the meta players and every enemy you fight, whether they are Magicka or Stamina.
• Never making a mistake even when under pressure. Skipping even a single animation cancelled skill is detrimental in this meta. With how little shields protect you now versus Stamina burst, even one failed shield cast can mean instant death.
• Limits of your Build. Being able to fight to the very limits of your build. I run vMA a few times when I grind an Alt to get a good feel for the class spec. Knowing your limits makes you dangerous.

All of this is necessary when fighting aggressively. Those are the players who are 1vXing.

I only run solo on my Magicka Sorc because I put in the time, have the skill, and know exactly what I'm capable of. Without that, I couldn't play aggresively and would get rolled over like all of the Magicka Sorcs I fight

Have you actually been to cyrodiil and seen what it's like for magsorcs?

It's all good benign a aggressive sorcerer but what about those new magsorcs (if there's any) who enter cyrodiil, they're going find it extremely hard when it comes to defending whilst still being able to attack.

I play a sorc (since launch) and trust me I know how to play aggressively but answer me these questions.

Why do you think the decrease in magsorcs is happening?

Why's there so many temp/DK running around well overpowered? Not to mention nightblades who imo are currently owning pvp.

Do you find it fair that sorcs have to put in so much hour to be any good on cyrodiil whilst the other classes just need good armor and one or two specific skills from their skill list and bam that's it's they're an expert?

Like I said I've been playing a sorc since launch so I've already put in the hours to be that good player you're talking about but for new players who hasn't played a sorc before wanting to, they're going to NEED to play and put in those hour, learn how to combo etc.

And for those complaint about streak, after 3 or 4 streaks depending on how much max magicka you have, streaking again can put you at risk coz of the cost of every next streak so it may look easy for sorcs to escape but it isn't most of the time.

Read my other posts on this very thread. The posts you AGREED with.

What I said here is in no way saying Magicka Sorcs are good (you're arguing the same points I made lol).

I'm saying the only way to even be dangerous with a Magicka Sorcerer is to totally master your class to be able to use that aggressive playstyle without a single slip up.

THIS IS TERRIBLE.

Very few Sorcs or players in general will ever even be able to play a class like that at its best. The fact that you need that sort of experience to not get run over on a Magicka Sorc is very, very bad.

Ummm yeah no offence was intended, I quoted and by the time I realised what I wrote was somewhat incorrect or a repeat of what you said, it was too late for me take down or edit at least.

I still agree with you coz like you mention we argued the same thing.

Cronopoly · August 2016

Obviously the game is Balanced EXACTLY the way @Zos wants it.

For PVP they want Stamina to be the Meta period, Sorcs included. There's isn't a single class that cannot do well as a Stamina Spec Having the highest Burst Offense and Evading Death with, Rally, Vigor, Perma Dodge / Evade, Sprint, Snipe, WB , and No penalty Gap Closers.

As Magicka, only one Class can "Compete" on average and that's Templar for all the obvious reasons.

At this point I've lost all hope for Magicka DK's, Sorc's and NB's competing in PVP. Time to slow my playtime banging my head against the wall. Also sick of burning through resources respeccing and trying new Armor sets getting laughed at by @Zos.

Dracane · August 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

ReeKs wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

The problem is that most Sorcs cannot deal with incoming damage because physical bursts are over the top nowadays.
Random sorcs cannot gain control over a fight because they are pushed into a defensive play style by spamming shields to survive the pressure. They simply don't have the tools and player skill for the right answer as soon they have to fight decent opponents.

What basically happens is that these random Sorcs are trying to play Heavy Armor to make the experience that they survive but suffering so much damage that fights end up in a tie because both opponents have not the power to kill each other.

What most of the Tops Sorcs do without gimping themselves is playing a very aggressive style for more pressure
by having shields up without spamming them. But playing aggressive Sorcs requires skill , it's playing the class at it's limit and doesn't allow any mistakes. However the problem are not the shields the problem is that physical damage is out of control.

That bolded part right there!

It's the key to being a strong player. A great player. That aggresiveness requires Total Mastery of your Class Spec.

This means:
• Hundreds of hours of experience. Testing out all your skills to see what does and doesn't work. Perfecting your build and being able to know how long buffs last, how much damage your burst generally does, etc.
• Fast reaction time. Knowing exactly what to expect from the meta players and every enemy you fight, whether they are Magicka or Stamina.
• Never making a mistake even when under pressure. Skipping even a single animation cancelled skill is detrimental in this meta. With how little shields protect you now versus Stamina burst, even one failed shield cast can mean instant death.
• Limits of your Build. Being able to fight to the very limits of your build. I run vMA a few times when I grind an Alt to get a good feel for the class spec. Knowing your limits makes you dangerous.

All of this is necessary when fighting aggressively. Those are the players who are 1vXing.

I only run solo on my Magicka Sorc because I put in the time, have the skill, and know exactly what I'm capable of. Without that, I couldn't play aggresively and would get rolled over like all of the Magicka Sorcs I fight

Have you actually been to cyrodiil and seen what it's like for magsorcs?

It's all good benign a aggressive sorcerer but what about those new magsorcs (if there's any) who enter cyrodiil, they're going find it extremely hard when it comes to defending whilst still being able to attack.

I play a sorc (since launch) and trust me I know how to play aggressively but answer me these questions.

Why do you think the decrease in magsorcs is happening?

Why's there so many temp/DK running around well overpowered? Not to mention nightblades who imo are currently owning pvp.

Do you find it fair that sorcs have to put in so much hour to be any good on cyrodiil whilst the other classes just need good armor and one or two specific skills from their skill list and bam that's it's they're an expert?

Like I said I've been playing a sorc since launch so I've already put in the hours to be that good player you're talking about but for new players who hasn't played a sorc before wanting to, they're going to NEED to play and put in those hour, learn how to combo etc.

And for those complaint about streak, after 3 or 4 streaks depending on how much max magicka you have, streaking again can put you at risk coz of the cost of every next streak so it may look easy for sorcs to escape but it isn't most of the time.

Sorc is the class with the least agressive potential.
Reflective scales and Purge disable all our aggression. Other classes don't have to deal with these problems.

Mines literally counter every melee build.

Only templars will purge a curse.

Frag hits so hard and costs nothing when proc'd.

Any good melee laughs about mines

Such an overrated ability.

hrothbern · August 2016

Just give the Sorcs Bound Armor the same 40% increase on damage of Heavy Attacks as DK has.

EDIT
I would even settle for 20% increase when it becomes an execute increasing to 50% increase when Health target comes below 50%.

bowmanz607 · August 2016

Cronopoly wrote: »

Obviously the game is Balanced EXACTLY the way @Zos wants it.

For PVP they want Stamina to be the Meta period, Sorcs included. There's isn't a single class that cannot do well as a Stamina Spec Having the highest Burst Offense and Evading Death with, Rally, Vigor, Perma Dodge / Evade, Sprint, Snipe, WB , and No penalty Gap Closers.

As Magicka, only one Class can "Compete" on average and that's Templar for all the obvious reasons.

At this point I've lost all hope for Magicka DK's, Sorc's and NB's competing in PVP. Time to slow my playtime banging my head against the wall. Also sick of burning through resources respeccing and trying new Armor sets getting laughed at by @Zos.

The problem is people thinking that stam is best and follow the sheep. I can concede that stam is most efficient way for quick kills. However, that does not mean that mag is not viable and work very well. Popular streamers will typically is3 the most efficient builds for killing 1vx because well that is what they built their streams on. Others simply follow cookie cutter builds. The only.mag class that is not viable in pvp with cp on is dk of you run solo. The thing is, and many people seem to not acknowledge this for some reason, is that mag dk is pretty darn good if running in a group.

Do no5 confuse viability with most efficient. There will always be a most efficient way.

Minalan · August 2016

Dracane wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

ReeKs wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Bromburak wrote: »

The problem is that most Sorcs cannot deal with incoming damage because physical bursts are over the top nowadays.
Random sorcs cannot gain control over a fight because they are pushed into a defensive play style by spamming shields to survive the pressure. They simply don't have the tools and player skill for the right answer as soon they have to fight decent opponents.

What basically happens is that these random Sorcs are trying to play Heavy Armor to make the experience that they survive but suffering so much damage that fights end up in a tie because both opponents have not the power to kill each other.

What most of the Tops Sorcs do without gimping themselves is playing a very aggressive style for more pressure
by having shields up without spamming them. But playing aggressive Sorcs requires skill , it's playing the class at it's limit and doesn't allow any mistakes. However the problem are not the shields the problem is that physical damage is out of control.

That bolded part right there!

It's the key to being a strong player. A great player. That aggresiveness requires Total Mastery of your Class Spec.

This means:
• Hundreds of hours of experience. Testing out all your skills to see what does and doesn't work. Perfecting your build and being able to know how long buffs last, how much damage your burst generally does, etc.
• Fast reaction time. Knowing exactly what to expect from the meta players and every enemy you fight, whether they are Magicka or Stamina.
• Never making a mistake even when under pressure. Skipping even a single animation cancelled skill is detrimental in this meta. With how little shields protect you now versus Stamina burst, even one failed shield cast can mean instant death.
• Limits of your Build. Being able to fight to the very limits of your build. I run vMA a few times when I grind an Alt to get a good feel for the class spec. Knowing your limits makes you dangerous.

All of this is necessary when fighting aggressively. Those are the players who are 1vXing.

I only run solo on my Magicka Sorc because I put in the time, have the skill, and know exactly what I'm capable of. Without that, I couldn't play aggresively and would get rolled over like all of the Magicka Sorcs I fight

Have you actually been to cyrodiil and seen what it's like for magsorcs?

It's all good benign a aggressive sorcerer but what about those new magsorcs (if there's any) who enter cyrodiil, they're going find it extremely hard when it comes to defending whilst still being able to attack.

I play a sorc (since launch) and trust me I know how to play aggressively but answer me these questions.

Why do you think the decrease in magsorcs is happening?

Why's there so many temp/DK running around well overpowered? Not to mention nightblades who imo are currently owning pvp.

Do you find it fair that sorcs have to put in so much hour to be any good on cyrodiil whilst the other classes just need good armor and one or two specific skills from their skill list and bam that's it's they're an expert?

Like I said I've been playing a sorc since launch so I've already put in the hours to be that good player you're talking about but for new players who hasn't played a sorc before wanting to, they're going to NEED to play and put in those hour, learn how to combo etc.

And for those complaint about streak, after 3 or 4 streaks depending on how much max magicka you have, streaking again can put you at risk coz of the cost of every next streak so it may look easy for sorcs to escape but it isn't most of the time.

Sorc is the class with the least agressive potential.
Reflective scales and Purge disable all our aggression. Other classes don't have to deal with these problems.

Mines literally counter every melee build.

Only templars will purge a curse.

Frag hits so hard and costs nothing when proc'd.

Any good melee laughs about mines Such an overrated ability.

Mines are crit rushed across or rolled through and ignored. It's a joke unless the opponent is bad or not geared. Google reactive set...

Curse? Hold down block and you take little damage from it. 4-500?

Frags are dodged, blocked, or reflected - it's not bad but it's balanced out.

sAnn92 wrote: »

Try 4 elegant, 4 shadow dancer. Or 3 elegant, 4 shadow dancer, engine guardian willpower. Enjoy easy mode pvp and stop whining for god sake. You can thank me later.

I'm sure that's great against potatoes, but it's not competitive against good Stam players. I'll grant that engine guardian is nice, but the 'other guy' is usually running that too.

Sorc ability costs and debuffs need to be looked at, and destro staff cost and damage needs a good close look. Want to nail a destro staff into my hand? Fine. Now make it competitive with 2 hand swords and bows.

Xeven · August 2016

And the last thing most of us want do is camp our mines anyway.

- Reduce the cost of hardened ward.
- Increase the druation to 8 seconds.
- Make streak a 33% cost increase like dodge roll.
- Make dark deal instant cast.
- Fix overload.

@Wrobel

BlackguardBob · August 2016

Fields1816 wrote: »

Ive been running all 4 character classes since launch and my sorcerer has been my favorite. However now i always feel like im at a disadvantage in pvp. PVE it doesnt effect me as much. For example on my NB i feel like i should never lose a 1v1 against a sorcerer and i rarely do unless i just totally screw up or lag. Now on my sorcerer i feel like i should never win a 1v1 against a NB or Templar unless they mess up. The problem is you have to focus so much on survival you cant focus on damage. This is also why when you go to cyrodiil 90 percent of people are nb or Templar. Its got almost laughable how they have treated the sorcerer.

The bold italics above. There it is in a nutshell.

Thelon · August 2016

sAnn92 wrote: »

Try 4 elegant, 4 shadow dancer. Or 3 elegant, 4 shadow dancer, engine guardian willpower. Enjoy easy mode pvp and stop whining for god sake. You can thank me later.

Minalan · August 2016

Xeven wrote: »

And the last thing most of us want do is camp our mines anyway.

- Reduce the cost of hardened ward.
- Increase the druation to 8 seconds.
- Make streak a 33% cost increase like dodge roll.
- Make dark deal instant cast.
- Fix overload.

@Wrobel

As many have pointed out: 8-10 seconds isn't *necessary* on a shield, but it will lower the skill ceiling on the class closer to where Stam builds are.

Look. I get it that good sorc players are still wrecking people. An eight second shield isn't going to help them, it'll help the players who aren't 500 hour duelist professionals.

Xeven · August 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

And the last thing most of us want do is camp our mines anyway.

- Reduce the cost of hardened ward.
- Increase the druation to 8 seconds.
- Make streak a 33% cost increase like dodge roll.
- Make dark deal instant cast.
- Fix overload.

@Wrobel

As many have pointed out: 8-10 seconds isn't *necessary* on a shield, but it will lower the skill ceiling on the class closer to where Stam builds are.

Look. I get it that good sorc players are still wrecking people. An eight second shield isn't going to help them, it'll help the players who aren't 500 hour duelist professionals.

It makes our DPS window a bit larger and will save us a bit of magicka. It will help all sorcs. I don't want to camp mines and spam shields.

Edit:
I get what you were saying now.

Xeven · August 2016

Double post.

Xeven · August 2016

Really forum?

Minalan · August 2016

Thelon wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

Try 4 elegant, 4 shadow dancer. Or 3 elegant, 4 shadow dancer, engine guardian willpower. Enjoy easy mode pvp and stop whining for god sake. You can thank me later.

LOL! I thought the same thing, I figured he meant *five* pieces of elegant. That would at least make a good overload spam build.

Cously · August 2016

No class has been nerfed more than DKs so suck it up. Eventually everyone will be nerfed and we can have fun with the wet noodle wars.

SanTii.92 · August 2016

Thelon wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

Try 4 elegant, 4 shadow dancer. Or 3 elegant, 4 shadow dancer, engine guardian willpower. Enjoy easy mode pvp and stop whining for god sake. You can thank me later.

What is that you can't understand. Tell me, I'd gladly explain it to you.

@Minalan no serious player uses overload.

Xeven · August 2016

sAnn92 wrote: »

What is that you can't understand. Tell me, I'd gladly explain it to you.

@Minalan no serious player uses overload.

Watch out guys. Pro sorc here.

RinaldoGandolphi · August 2016

As someone who has played Magic Sorc since launch in 2014, who killed nearly every Emp this game ever had that mattered (Got my Emp Slayer Achievement by killing Ysmira 1v1 who would mop the floor with the majority of players who play this game today)

The issue why magic Sorc sucks in PVP has nothing to do with skill or getting good.

Sure you could play a Magic Sorc in PVP but why would you? Everything it can do outside of Negate is done better by a magic Templar or Nightblade. Even Stam Sorc now does everything Magic Sorc can do but better and even drop Negates as a bonus.

The issue why Magic Sorc SUCKS in PVP is:

1. Every Stamina Build is running around with 10k Armor penetration which means Light Armored Sorcs have ZERO ARMOR.

2.. Sorcs are required to keep Hardened Ward up 100% of the time if you let it drop for even 1 sec against a player(stam build) that even half way knows what he is doing and has a solid build you are dead....Magic Sorc is the one class in the game that running Impenetrable is impracticable and makes no sense. Sure you can run it but your gimping yourself. The Sorc's entire class was designed to be squishy and their defense was their Damage Shield and Streak.(Which is the reason Sorc's had the best shield because they are the squishiest class underneath it)

Before anyone tells me I have to L2P, I did....i learned how to beat VMA going from a 20 second shield to a 6 second one that costs more and i know full well what it means. The only reason why its complete able is having a proper build where......wait for it:

You keep Surge + Boundless Storm + Liquid Lighting up 100% of the time and keep damage on enemies so you can out heal the incoming damage while doing damage and only use Hardened Ward situationaly(against archers and heavy hits)

This works fine in PVE, and the shield changes make sense there but it won't work in PVP. PVP is too full of hard CC and the like that render your 6 sec shield useless. Anyone who never had their Hardened Ward last for more then 6 secs in Cyrodiil was not playing the class right and just letting multiple people beat on them.

3. Magic Sorc's mobility is gone with the Streak, Major Expedition, and Sprint changes Sorc's can't sprint, and reducing Major Expedition hurt us more then stam builds, and we have a crap stamina pool and that combined with no armor and a 6 sec shield makes you an AP pinata for any stam build that even has a clue how to play his class.This lack of mobility along with root and snare prevalence and such a tiny shield your just at a disadvantage from the get.

German makes his work by using Engine Guardian and all Regen/Cost reductions and relies on spamming Shield until he gets an opening to Dawnbreaker you....its still a net DPS loss as he is spending resources casting a shield that could be spent doing damage.

4. The core issue with Magic Sorc in PVP now is the prevalance of Stam builds and Shuffle, and now the 6 sec shield duration is you cna't keep enough DPS pressure on your opponent when your 1-2 shot fodder if you let that shield drop....combined with the fact the majority of your attacks will be dodged, your opponent has to royally suck to lose...all he has to do is count to 5 and hard CC and burst you and your dead....you could try running Defensive rune, but most good stam builds will pop an immovable pot before unloading their burst combo to ensure they are not interrupted...The shield changes have placed Sorc's on the defensive from the get go and they must maintain those defenses or be dead....other classes don't have to rebuff defense every 6 secs to avoid being killed....hence your always at a disadvantage hoping your opponent screws up and are no longer in control of your own destiny as a Sorc and thats the crux...you cna no longer pressure your opponent enough to dictate the fight in your favor but its extremly easy for your opponent to do this to you.

The week of Dark Brotherhood launch was last time i actually had my Sorc in PVP with all my Champion Points allocated for PVP wearing PVP specific gear and roamed alone on TF and went 177-7 but the class was overall weaker...that shield even drops for an instant against anyone that even remotely knows how to play his class your dead, no ands, ifs or buts. dead.

Just for giggles i took my VMA Sorc build into Had with a friend(Come on who wears Nerienth on a Sorc in PVP now lol) just to scope the landscape and it wasn't pretty....i can get a pretty good idea that its a waste of time to respect gear or CP points and waste mats and gold on a class that utter trash in PVP.

I do have a Templar though, probably just heal groups with him...least he will be viable. All that PVE time on my Sorc has netted me 5 Black Rose and 2 Malabeth....with a Maelstrom Resto Staff and Sword and Board of my choice i should be a very very tanky healer for a group...sounds like a much better option.....my Sorc will stick to PVE until ZOS wakes up out of their coma and fixes my Sorc.

I know i speak for a lot of Sorcs when i say this but its true. The nerfs levied at the class was unfounded, and in PVe we are still the lowest DPS in the game. We also only have 1 stinking weapon skill line based of magicka that does damage which is destro staff and its been nerfed numerous times over the last year:

Crushing Shock damage reduced 10%
Elemental Effects Procs nerfed
Elemental Ring no longer has 40% chance to apply Elemental status
Impulse Range Nerfed
Crushing Shock no longer has 40% chance to apply Elemental Status effect

All the nerfs to Destro Staff directly nerfed Magic Sorc who is the only class 100% reliant on it for DPS...Stam Sorcs got two handed, dueal wield, and bow...we got Destro Staff..thats it....none of their options are ever nerfed, but ours are at every turn despite us having the lowest damage output.

Anyone who wants a real challenge can make PVP Sorc work, but why bother...even Magic DK is better in PVP right now then Magic Sorc...and i refuse to roll stam so whatever.....i'll just be a heal bot and spam Jesus Beam....its obvious ZOS doesn't want anyone to play Magic Sorc

Lets look at Stam Sorc:

Better DPS
Gets the better heal version of Surge, Magic Sorc gets stuck with garbage version.
Hurricane is better then Boundless Storm, more damge, longer speed buff, larger range....Magic Sorc gets poo in comparison
3 DPS Weapon lines based off stam vs 1 for Magic Sorc
20% Dodge chance
Root and Snare immunity
Streak
Weapon damage buffs with Fighters Guild
Fighter's Guild useless to Magic Sorc
Stam Sorc can still use Might of the Guild Empowerment effectively, but Magic Sorc can't use any Fighters Guild stuff.

I could go on and on....point is...Magic Sorc sucks in favor of its stam counterpart despite the fact that from 2002-2016 of TES established lore says a Sorcerer is a MAGIC FOCUSED specialization that only has a very rudimentary knowledge of martial fighting but whatever....

the only "buffs" Magic Sorc's get are to pets which get no CP benefits and outside of the Clannfear Heal thats VERY situational other then that they suck.....But they buff Stam Sorc's through the roof, might as well hand them an "I Win button" they have better damage, better mobility, and better survivabilty then Magic Sorc's ever had, and snare and root immunity to boot with stacking HOTS LOL! They hypocrisy is astounding.

Magic Sorc sucks and will continue to suck in PVP until some MAJOR changes are made and I do mean MAJOR.....

Minalan · August 2016

sAnn92 wrote: »

Thelon wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

Try 4 elegant, 4 shadow dancer. Or 3 elegant, 4 shadow dancer, engine guardian willpower. Enjoy easy mode pvp and stop whining for god sake. You can thank me later.

What is that you can't understand. Tell me, I'd gladly explain it to you.

@Minalan no serious player uses overload.

Please. Tell me. Because your build has no five piece bonuses. No Julianos spell damage. No Seducer 8% cost reduction bonus. No instant Kags res for your friends. No lich proc that gives half your magicka back. No Necro max magicka bonus. No Amberplasm 300 point Stam and magicka regen bonus (probably best of all). No elegance 20% heavy attack damage.

The only thing I 'get' is engine guardian, but we all know that's a little OP, and it's even better on Stam builds.

Minalan · August 2016

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

As someone who has played Magic Sorc since launch in 2014, who killed nearly every Emp this game ever had that mattered (Got my Emp Slayer Achievement by killing Ysmira 1v1 who would mop the floor with the majority of players who play this game today)

The issue why magic Sorc sucks in PVP has nothing to do with skill or getting good.

Sure you could play a Magic Sorc in PVP but why would you? Everything it can do outside of Negate is done better by a magic Templar or Nightblade. Even Stam Sorc now does everything Magic Sorc can do but better and even drop Negates as a bonus.

The issue why Magic Sorc SUCKS in PVP is:

1. Every Stamina Build is running around with 10k Armor penetration which means Light Armored Sorcs have ZERO ARMOR.

2.. Sorcs are required to keep Hardened Ward up 100% of the time if you let it drop for even 1 sec against a player(stam build) that even half way knows what he is doing and has a solid build you are dead....Magic Sorc is the one class in the game that running Impenetrable is impracticable and makes no sense. Sure you can run it but your gimping yourself. The Sorc's entire class was designed to be squishy and their defense was their Damage Shield and Streak.(Which is the reason Sorc's had the best shield because they are the squishiest class underneath it)

Before anyone tells me I have to L2P, I did....i learned how to beat VMA going from a 20 second shield to a 6 second one that costs more and i know full well what it means. The only reason why its complete able is having a proper build where......wait for it:

You keep Surge + Boundless Storm + Liquid Lighting up 100% of the time and keep damage on enemies so you can out heal the incoming damage while doing damage and only use Hardened Ward situationaly(against archers and heavy hits)

This works fine in PVE, and the shield changes make sense there but it won't work in PVP. PVP is too full of hard CC and the like that render your 6 sec shield useless. Anyone who never had their Hardened Ward last for more then 6 secs in Cyrodiil was not playing the class right and just letting multiple people beat on them.

3. Magic Sorc's mobility is gone with the Streak, Major Expedition, and Sprint changes Sorc's can't sprint, and reducing Major Expedition hurt us more then stam builds, and we have a crap stamina pool and that combined with no armor and a 6 sec shield makes you an AP pinata for any stam build that even has a clue how to play his class.This lack of mobility along with root and snare prevalence and such a tiny shield your just at a disadvantage from the get.

German makes his work by using Engine Guardian and all Regen/Cost reductions and relies on spamming Shield until he gets an opening to Dawnbreaker you....its still a net DPS loss as he is spending resources casting a shield that could be spent doing damage.

4. The core issue with Magic Sorc in PVP now is the prevalance of Stam builds and Shuffle, and now the 6 sec shield duration is you cna't keep enough DPS pressure on your opponent when your 1-2 shot fodder if you let that shield drop....combined with the fact the majority of your attacks will be dodged, your opponent has to royally suck to lose...all he has to do is count to 5 and hard CC and burst you and your dead....you could try running Defensive rune, but most good stam builds will pop an immovable pot before unloading their burst combo to ensure they are not interrupted...The shield changes have placed Sorc's on the defensive from the get go and they must maintain those defenses or be dead....other classes don't have to rebuff defense every 6 secs to avoid being killed....hence your always at a disadvantage hoping your opponent screws up and are no longer in control of your own destiny as a Sorc and thats the crux...you cna no longer pressure your opponent enough to dictate the fight in your favor but its extremly easy for your opponent to do this to you.

The week of Dark Brotherhood launch was last time i actually had my Sorc in PVP with all my Champion Points allocated for PVP wearing PVP specific gear and roamed alone on TF and went 177-7 but the class was overall weaker...that shield even drops for an instant against anyone that even remotely knows how to play his class your dead, no ands, ifs or buts. dead.

Just for giggles i took my VMA Sorc build into Had with a friend(Come on who wears Nerienth on a Sorc in PVP now lol) just to scope the landscape and it wasn't pretty....i can get a pretty good idea that its a waste of time to respect gear or CP points and waste mats and gold on a class that utter trash in PVP.

I do have a Templar though, probably just heal groups with him...least he will be viable. All that PVE time on my Sorc has netted me 5 Black Rose and 2 Malabeth....with a Maelstrom Resto Staff and Sword and Board of my choice i should be a very very tanky healer for a group...sounds like a much better option.....my Sorc will stick to PVE until ZOS wakes up out of their coma and fixes my Sorc.

I know i speak for a lot of Sorcs when i say this but its true. The nerfs levied at the class was unfounded, and in PVe we are still the lowest DPS in the game. We also only have 1 stinking weapon skill line based of magicka that does damage which is destro staff and its been nerfed numerous times over the last year:

Crushing Shock damage reduced 10%
Elemental Effects Procs nerfed
Elemental Ring no longer has 40% chance to apply Elemental status
Impulse Range Nerfed
Crushing Shock no longer has 40% chance to apply Elemental Status effect

All the nerfs to Destro Staff directly nerfed Magic Sorc who is the only class 100% reliant on it for DPS...Stam Sorcs got two handed, dueal wield, and bow...we got Destro Staff..thats it....none of their options are ever nerfed, but ours are at every turn despite us having the lowest damage output.

Anyone who wants a real challenge can make PVP Sorc work, but why bother...even Magic DK is better in PVP right now then Magic Sorc...and i refuse to roll stam so whatever.....i'll just be a heal bot and spam Jesus Beam....its obvious ZOS doesn't want anyone to play Magic Sorc

Lets look at Stam Sorc:

Better DPS
Gets the better heal version of Surge, Magic Sorc gets stuck with garbage version.
Hurricane is better then Boundless Storm, more damge, longer speed buff, larger range....Magic Sorc gets poo in comparison
3 DPS Weapon lines based off stam vs 1 for Magic Sorc
20% Dodge chance
Root and Snare immunity
Streak
Weapon damage buffs with Fighters Guild
Fighter's Guild useless to Magic Sorc
Stam Sorc can still use Might of the Guild Empowerment effectively, but Magic Sorc can't use any Fighters Guild stuff.

I could go on and on....point is...Magic Sorc sucks in favor of its stam counterpart despite the fact that from 2002-2016 of TES established lore says a Sorcerer is a MAGIC FOCUSED specialization that only has a very rudimentary knowledge of martial fighting but whatever....

the only "buffs" Magic Sorc's get are to pets which get no CP benefits and outside of the Clannfear Heal thats VERY situational other then that they suck.....But they buff Stam Sorc's through the roof, might as well hand them an "I Win button" they have better damage, better mobility, and better survivabilty then Magic Sorc's ever had, and snare and root immunity to boot with stacking HOTS LOL! They hypocrisy is astounding.

Magic Sorc sucks and will continue to suck in PVP until some MAJOR changes are made and I do mean MAJOR.....

Not sure if the changes needed are MAJOR, but I agree with absolutely everything else.

E-Zekiel · August 2016

Is this a PVP or PVE centered post?

Anyway. I dunno. My sorcerer feels pretty powerful honestly. I run him with full light armor, 3 stormcalling spells, dark crystal and the first destruction staff on one hotbar, all restoration staff with the spell damage (surge) from the stormcalling tree on the other.

Despite being in light armor I find that when I focus on survival against multiple people I can actually live incredibly well, tanking 4 people in Cyrodiil for quite a long time depending on their coordination/skill, before I run out of mana and die.

TheHsN wrote: »

yeah exactly...

sorcerer needs,

-their shields back

-their execute is the worst and weakest in the game it need to be fixed

-they dont have their DPS SPAM skill SUCH AS" NB : swallow soul , TEMP: Jabs . DK : Whip... we only have force pulse and it is to weak and exepensive skill....

- Power surge is almost useless now...

- Our best shot is CYRSTAL FRAGS BUT: it is not spamable and it is too slow till it hits to player... every body can dodge it and if SHUFFLE is open it is almost impossible to hit with it to player...

so yes pls help us here to fix to sorcerer ..it was a great class now it is weakest and the best boring class to play...

-Can't speak for shields, but I've found the restoration staff shield extremely useful when low on health, as it's pretty cheap to cast and when you're at around 50% or less the shield is pretty huge.

-First of all, I often find myself surprised by how hard mine hits at times. I've seen it hit for up to 16k (bearing in mind my sorc is 31 and I do scaled content pretty much exclusively on him - IE Cyrodiil and dungeons). It doesn't hit as hard as my stamina nightblade's execute does, but I also have to be in melee range to land his. Sorc hits very hard, IMO, and causes a high AE damage to boot, and on top of all that is very low cost. I honestly don't see why anyone would think it should be beefed up - it's pretty damn good, imo.

-Swallow soul is what a NB does to spam DPS???? That's um...definitely news to me, wow. Between lightning form, destructive reach, surge, AOE's, maybe tossing down some extra heals, I proc crystal frequently enough that I just don't feel like my DPS is hurting.

Anyway, I don't find it boring at all. I LOVE my sorc and find him to be extremely fun, and by no means do I find him weak. If anything I've found that when I set things up right, he probably has the highest potential for putting out tons of damage while sustaining himself from dying relative to my other classes. It makes him more formidable in most fights than my tank characters (most of my characters are tanks, excepting my stamina DPS nightblade and my magicka DPS/offheal sorc).

Dracane · August 2016

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

As someone who has played Magic Sorc since launch in 2014, who killed nearly every Emp this game ever had that mattered (Got my Emp Slayer Achievement by killing Ysmira 1v1 who would mop the floor with the majority of players who play this game today)

The issue why magic Sorc sucks in PVP has nothing to do with skill or getting good.

Sure you could play a Magic Sorc in PVP but why would you? Everything it can do outside of Negate is done better by a magic Templar or Nightblade. Even Stam Sorc now does everything Magic Sorc can do but better and even drop Negates as a bonus.

The issue why Magic Sorc SUCKS in PVP is:

1. Every Stamina Build is running around with 10k Armor penetration which means Light Armored Sorcs have ZERO ARMOR.

2.. Sorcs are required to keep Hardened Ward up 100% of the time if you let it drop for even 1 sec against a player(stam build) that even half way knows what he is doing and has a solid build you are dead....Magic Sorc is the one class in the game that running Impenetrable is impracticable and makes no sense. Sure you can run it but your gimping yourself. The Sorc's entire class was designed to be squishy and their defense was their Damage Shield and Streak.(Which is the reason Sorc's had the best shield because they are the squishiest class underneath it)

Before anyone tells me I have to L2P, I did....i learned how to beat VMA going from a 20 second shield to a 6 second one that costs more and i know full well what it means. The only reason why its complete able is having a proper build where......wait for it:

You keep Surge + Boundless Storm + Liquid Lighting up 100% of the time and keep damage on enemies so you can out heal the incoming damage while doing damage and only use Hardened Ward situationaly(against archers and heavy hits)

This works fine in PVE, and the shield changes make sense there but it won't work in PVP. PVP is too full of hard CC and the like that render your 6 sec shield useless. Anyone who never had their Hardened Ward last for more then 6 secs in Cyrodiil was not playing the class right and just letting multiple people beat on them.

3. Magic Sorc's mobility is gone with the Streak, Major Expedition, and Sprint changes Sorc's can't sprint, and reducing Major Expedition hurt us more then stam builds, and we have a crap stamina pool and that combined with no armor and a 6 sec shield makes you an AP pinata for any stam build that even has a clue how to play his class.This lack of mobility along with root and snare prevalence and such a tiny shield your just at a disadvantage from the get.

German makes his work by using Engine Guardian and all Regen/Cost reductions and relies on spamming Shield until he gets an opening to Dawnbreaker you....its still a net DPS loss as he is spending resources casting a shield that could be spent doing damage.

4. The core issue with Magic Sorc in PVP now is the prevalance of Stam builds and Shuffle, and now the 6 sec shield duration is you cna't keep enough DPS pressure on your opponent when your 1-2 shot fodder if you let that shield drop....combined with the fact the majority of your attacks will be dodged, your opponent has to royally suck to lose...all he has to do is count to 5 and hard CC and burst you and your dead....you could try running Defensive rune, but most good stam builds will pop an immovable pot before unloading their burst combo to ensure they are not interrupted...The shield changes have placed Sorc's on the defensive from the get go and they must maintain those defenses or be dead....other classes don't have to rebuff defense every 6 secs to avoid being killed....hence your always at a disadvantage hoping your opponent screws up and are no longer in control of your own destiny as a Sorc and thats the crux...you cna no longer pressure your opponent enough to dictate the fight in your favor but its extremly easy for your opponent to do this to you.

The week of Dark Brotherhood launch was last time i actually had my Sorc in PVP with all my Champion Points allocated for PVP wearing PVP specific gear and roamed alone on TF and went 177-7 but the class was overall weaker...that shield even drops for an instant against anyone that even remotely knows how to play his class your dead, no ands, ifs or buts. dead.

Just for giggles i took my VMA Sorc build into Had with a friend(Come on who wears Nerienth on a Sorc in PVP now lol) just to scope the landscape and it wasn't pretty....i can get a pretty good idea that its a waste of time to respect gear or CP points and waste mats and gold on a class that utter trash in PVP.

I do have a Templar though, probably just heal groups with him...least he will be viable. All that PVE time on my Sorc has netted me 5 Black Rose and 2 Malabeth....with a Maelstrom Resto Staff and Sword and Board of my choice i should be a very very tanky healer for a group...sounds like a much better option.....my Sorc will stick to PVE until ZOS wakes up out of their coma and fixes my Sorc.

I know i speak for a lot of Sorcs when i say this but its true. The nerfs levied at the class was unfounded, and in PVe we are still the lowest DPS in the game. We also only have 1 stinking weapon skill line based of magicka that does damage which is destro staff and its been nerfed numerous times over the last year:

Crushing Shock damage reduced 10%
Elemental Effects Procs nerfed
Elemental Ring no longer has 40% chance to apply Elemental status
Impulse Range Nerfed
Crushing Shock no longer has 40% chance to apply Elemental Status effect

All the nerfs to Destro Staff directly nerfed Magic Sorc who is the only class 100% reliant on it for DPS...Stam Sorcs got two handed, dueal wield, and bow...we got Destro Staff..thats it....none of their options are ever nerfed, but ours are at every turn despite us having the lowest damage output.

Anyone who wants a real challenge can make PVP Sorc work, but why bother...even Magic DK is better in PVP right now then Magic Sorc...and i refuse to roll stam so whatever.....i'll just be a heal bot and spam Jesus Beam....its obvious ZOS doesn't want anyone to play Magic Sorc

Lets look at Stam Sorc:

Better DPS
Gets the better heal version of Surge, Magic Sorc gets stuck with garbage version.
Hurricane is better then Boundless Storm, more damge, longer speed buff, larger range....Magic Sorc gets poo in comparison
3 DPS Weapon lines based off stam vs 1 for Magic Sorc
20% Dodge chance
Root and Snare immunity
Streak
Weapon damage buffs with Fighters Guild
Fighter's Guild useless to Magic Sorc
Stam Sorc can still use Might of the Guild Empowerment effectively, but Magic Sorc can't use any Fighters Guild stuff.

I could go on and on....point is...Magic Sorc sucks in favor of its stam counterpart despite the fact that from 2002-2016 of TES established lore says a Sorcerer is a MAGIC FOCUSED specialization that only has a very rudimentary knowledge of martial fighting but whatever....

the only "buffs" Magic Sorc's get are to pets which get no CP benefits and outside of the Clannfear Heal thats VERY situational other then that they suck.....But they buff Stam Sorc's through the roof, might as well hand them an "I Win button" they have better damage, better mobility, and better survivabilty then Magic Sorc's ever had, and snare and root immunity to boot with stacking HOTS LOL! They hypocrisy is astounding.

Magic Sorc sucks and will continue to suck in PVP until some MAJOR changes are made and I do mean MAJOR.....

Great post and lol @Ap Pinata

that was glorious.
I too think, that the pitiful state of destruction staff, is the main problem.
It's by far the worst weapon line. Weak passives and only low damage abilities.

No matter what they do to destruction staves, only Sorcs will ever seriously use it in pvp. So buffing this would definately help us. But so far, all they did was nerfing the weakest weapon line even further. I just don't get it.... Destruction staff has NEVER been too strong or really overperforming. It was the first choice when stamina builds basically didn't exist. But since then, it was just super weak and didn't need further nerfing. It needs buffs, heavy buffs.