Can Anyone Explain My Low Damage

Lensar · August 2016

Very often, I run across players that are essentially undamagable and I do not understand why. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, the game is just horribly designed, or people are exploiting.

This frequently happens when 5 or more of us are attack a single player (usually but not always a templar).

To help figure out why this is happening, I've been fighting in Non-Champion Cyrodil to remove champion points from the equation.

I have a Champ 273 Wood Elf NightBlade:

http://imgur.com/a/j8MbU

4771 Weapon Damage.

When attacking players like this, my damage is between 874 (I see that number a lot) or around 1250. It should not be a resist issue, since I am using the following:

This targets are marked:

http://i.imgur.com/a/m2YKv.png

I'm hitting them with Surprise attack

http://imgur.com/a/FKKhe

I'm using a weapon with sharpended

http://imgur.com/a/EAxg6

Am I missing some obvious trick or something? It seems utterly and completely ridiculous that I'm not able to do at least SOME meaningful damage to players with these stats. With various other buffs, I'm frequently over 5500 weapon damage, yet still unable to do damage.

While it'd be easy to assume that this is just the way it is and the game is fundamentally broken, these same folks have no trouble at all damaging me. So is it something I'm missing? Are they using some kind of mechanics exploit? Are they outright cheating? Or is it something else?

BruhItsOver9000 · August 2016

Maybe cheating.

mtwiggz · August 2016

8083 is a small damage value for Surprise Attack. My NB's tooltip damage is near 10k with only 3.6k WD. Is that tooltip taken while buffed? Also, what gear are you running? Where is your CP? Are you attacking all HA tank built characters? There's a lot of questions to ask before anyone can tell you any kind of proper answer.

As for 5 players attacking one player and not managing to kill it? That's sad but happening a lot these days. There's certain builds out there that are damn near unkillable by a small amount of players. Of course they can't deal any damage, but annoying none the less.

magictucktuck · August 2016

Doesn't not help your problem but debuf from surprise attack and mark don't stack

leepalmer95 · August 2016

Your skill damage goes off both weapon dmg and max stamina.

Roughly 1000 stamina gives the same dmg boost as 100 wpn dmg.

Nb's hit hard via crit's, you have low crit chance and i'm guessing not hard crit damage.

Also in order to not be 2 hit in pvp you need to use the impen trait on your gear and reduce some crit dmg in the cp tree.

Lettigall · August 2016

Seems you are hitting shields or fighting tanks. If tanks hold block your damage will be pitiful and with recent buffs to heavy armor, you gonna get back good pounding. You have a ganker build, fighting shields and tanks takes a lot of resources, if gank fails- retreat!

AshTal · August 2016

We had a similar situation 5 of us attacking a sorc. As a sorc myself I had no idea why my crystal frags and deadric curse looked like they were doing only 4% of the guys health. 5 of us were losing against this single player and then another group arrived and managed to take him down, 10 of us vs 1 and it still took 3 minutes to kill him. He was kicking out insane damage while healing and shielding everything we did.

Another battle I was in 1 v 1 and I was dead in 3 seconds. It was a 2 hander spamming dizzying strike each blow did 7K+ went through my shield and 30K health in the same time I got one crystal frag off.

I don't know if I am just building terrible build, if there are god builds out there which make players almost unbeatable or if they are cheating.

Lensar · August 2016

mtwiggz wrote: »

8083 is a small damage value for Surprise Attack. My NB's tooltip damage is near 10k with only 3.6k WD. Is that tooltip taken while buffed? Also, what gear are you running? Where is your CP? Are you attacking all HA tank built characters? There's a lot of questions to ask before anyone can tell you any kind of proper answer.

I only pvp in non-champ to remove CP from the equation, since there's a lot of things on both sides that can over-complicate stuff.

I'll check my SA tooltip damage, maybe there's something I'm missing there.

I have several sets of gear now, all of which I'm rotating through to find something that works:

Drauegh King, Shield Breaker, Clever Alchemist, Viper, Venom, Marksman.

- I have 3 jewelry, 1 of each weapon, and a helm set of Draugh King, Marksman, Viper's Sting.

- I have 5 piece armor sets of Clever Alchemist, Shield Breaker, and Venom.

- My shoulders are Molog Kena.

- My weapons are a Bow and a Greatsword.

Past couple of days, I've been trying Draeugh and Alchemist sets.

magictucktuck wrote: »

Doesn't not help your problem but debuf from surprise attack and mark don't stack

Actually, that helps a quite a bit. Frees me up from using SA, since i try to keep everyone marked.

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Your skill damage goes off both weapon dmg and max stamina.

Roughly 1000 stamina gives the same dmg boost as 100 wpn dmg.

Nb's hit hard via crit's, you have low crit chance and i'm guessing not hard crit damage.

Also in order to not be 2 hit in pvp you need to use the impen trait on your gear and reduce some crit dmg in the cp tree.

I started off as full crit, but it was arguably even worse in PvP, I'm guessing since everyone is running impen. I could get it back up at the expense of some weapon dam, but even when I use ability/pots to drive up my crit, I don't see a big difference.

And for the record, i'm not trying to 2 shot anyone, I'm just trying to do more than 1200 damage to these guys that seem completely unkillable, as they're easily able to out regen my full dps, which just seems wrong.

Lettigall wrote: »

Seems you are hitting shields or fighting tanks. If tanks hold block your damage will be pitiful and with recent buffs to heavy armor, you gonna get back good pounding. You have a ganker build, fighting shields and tanks takes a lot of resources, if gank fails- retreat!

Yeah, blocks certainly lower damage. I've used my shield breaker set on folks when I noticed they were running heavy shields, but it hasn't really had spectacular results.

Kas · August 2016

those are usually blocked numbers. most heavy armor builds can do that, if only for a very short time. there are several builds that allow blocking for much much longer and against many enemies. ideally you'll want to play those builds yourself to understand their weaknesses and to develop a feeling for when you can actually strike.

that said, heal debuffs are very strong (your icap strike), your mass hysteria will go through block and force them to cc break.make sure you weave la's with your skills. more damage and more stamina drained form blocking. look out for malubeth. if you have problems wiht those wearing this set, have a look at all those threads specific to that set

w.r.t. your initial question: it's you. you clearly are not very experienced in this game. btw, shieldbreaker is against damage shields. usually used by sorcs or other targets in light armor. you'll do big damage numbers like them anyway (but they reapply shields). shieldbreaker allows you to damage those. it offers nothing useful against blocking tanks

in summary, it still stands: if you cannot understand how to fight them, try to play like that, too. soon you'll see the limitations of such builds

Gulkrim-mur · August 2016

As a tank orc dk my main is sword and shield with a 2h back up. I can live 5v1s and be annoying to kill with 10+ attacking me.

My dmg is low but if you lack armor and heals you will die. I stun shield charge then weaken your armor with puncture, heavy attack, then lashing strike to weaken your damage, by now your invulnerablity to cc has coold off from thaf shield strike and your damaged.

I swap 2h upper cut to knocuk you back run in with a heavy attack and your most likley ready for my exacutioner to proc and finish you. If not i go back sword and shielf and puncture, heavy attack, lashing strike (or w.e), then 2h upper cut, exacute.

To kill me or tank players your best choise is to cc me and drain stamina. Then i cant block. Vigor, attack, dodge roll, but again even doing this solo will be extremley difficuilt because with out buffs i can be annoying to kill.

Iv had situations were 3 people managed to take me down being smart. To 5 even 10 people not being able to put me under.

visionality · August 2016

Lensar wrote: »

Very often, I run across players that are essentially undamagable and I do not understand why. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, the game is just horribly designed, or people are exploiting.

This frequently happens when 5 or more of us are attack a single player (usually but not always a templar).

To help figure out why this is happening, I've been fighting in Non-Champion Cyrodil to remove champion points from the equation.

I have a Champ 273 Wood Elf NightBlade:

http://imgur.com/a/j8MbU

4771 Weapon Damage.

When attacking players like this, my damage is between 874 (I see that number a lot) or around 1250. It should not be a resist issue, since I am using the following:

This targets are marked:

http://i.imgur.com/a/m2YKv.png

I'm hitting them with Surprise attack

http://imgur.com/a/FKKhe

I'm using a weapon with sharpended

http://imgur.com/a/EAxg6

Am I missing some obvious trick or something? It seems utterly and completely ridiculous that I'm not able to do at least SOME meaningful damage to players with these stats. With various other buffs, I'm frequently over 5500 weapon damage, yet still unable to do damage.

While it'd be easy to assume that this is just the way it is and the game is fundamentally broken, these same folks have no trouble at all damaging me. So is it something I'm missing? Are they using some kind of mechanics exploit? Are they outright cheating? Or is it something else?

As you say it's frequently happening and most often with templars, it's surely something else. There are several armor sets with high damage mitigation. There are skills which mitigate or add resistance. (There also are broken addons that give you wrong numbers.) Impossible to say what problem you're facing without knowing the ppl you're facing. But it surely is no exploit or cheat when it happens repeatedly to you with different players.

incite · August 2016

So you get 1vX'ed, and you're throwing in the assumtions that the player is exploiting/cheating/broken mechanics...

Van_0S · August 2016

[Deleted]

RedFireDisco · August 2016

I've seen the same thing where my theoryspcc'd high damage build could barely move a player's health bar whilst 5 of us wail on him. That's fine if he's a tank with max resists and 50k health, but then he should hit like a wet noodle and not be able to take out a bunch of CP capped friggin' palatines (not me). There are many variables and permutations but when you are in a fight and the player takes a couple of hundred K damage and puts out higher DPS, it really does make you wonder.

susmitds · August 2016

RedFireDisco wrote: »

I've seen the same thing where my theoryspcc'd high damage build could barely move a player's health bar whilst 5 of us wail on him. That's fine if he's a tank with max resists and 50k health, but then he should hit like a wet noodle and not be able to take out a bunch of CP capped friggin' palatines (not me). There are many variables and permutations but when you are in a fight and the player takes a couple of hundred K damage and puts out higher DPS, it really does make you wonder.

Are you sure, you did not fight blazing shield templar or sap tank nightblade? Both are very tanky but can deal crazy amounts of damage.

OrphanHelgen · August 2016

Sharpened/penetration, debuf target and buff yourself

altemriel · August 2016

you are either fighting a cheater or a tank with 50K health or a hardcore PVPer with massive damage and sustain build

Asgari · August 2016

even in non CP your max stam is sooo low .. you basically have no real damage pool. stacking all of that weapon dmg isnt all there is too it. you need more stam also. dmg scales off of more than one thing.

Lensar · August 2016

Kas wrote: »

those are usually blocked numbers. most heavy armor builds can do that, if only for a very short time. there are several builds that allow blocking for much much longer and against many enemies. ideally you'll want to play those builds yourself to understand their weaknesses and to develop a feeling for when you can actually strike.

that said, heal debuffs are very strong (your icap strike), your mass hysteria will go through block and force them to cc break.make sure you weave la's with your skills. more damage and more stamina drained form blocking. look out for malubeth. if you have problems wiht those wearing this set, have a look at all those threads specific to that set

w.r.t. your initial question: it's you. you clearly are not very experienced in this game.

I played for a couple months during the initial release, then returned two months ago to give the game another shot, so I don't pretend to know everything (or even much of anything), I'm just trying to figure out what's going on.

I play with a few friends and we're all fairly decent at MMOs in general, so in two months, I've been able to acquire pretty much any gear I wanted. (short of 12 man bound gear) I've been experimenting with everything to try and figure out how to deal with these unkillable folks.

incite wrote: »

So you get 1vX'ed, and you're throwing in the assumtions that the player is exploiting/cheating/broken mechanics...

No, I came to the forums to post and ask people what on earth it could be.

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

even in non CP your max stam is sooo low .. you basically have no real damage pool. stacking all of that weapon dmg isnt all there is too it. you need more stam also. dmg scales off of more than one thing.

Yeah, could be.

Initially, I went with a full crit build but had very little success with it in PvP. Driving up weapon damage was my next goal. Maybe you're right, and I need to focus more on stamina. However, everything I read seems to indicate that weapon damage contributes more than stam, pound for pound. But I'll drive up Stam and see how that goes.

RedFireDisco · August 2016

[/quote]

Are you sure, you did not fight blazing shield templar or sap tank nightblade? Both are very tanky but can deal crazy amounts of damage.[/quote]

Nah, sap tanks go down pretty fast. Blazing shield temps can be hard, but it's the damage output which always makes me wonder.

There should never be an high damage high defense build.

Waffennacht · August 2016

Well let's take an attack with a tool tip of 20,000 damage (pretty big imo)

First off, PvP so it goes to 10k

Without anything else blocking alone brings this to 5k.

Now add mitigation of armor, let's say around 22k, so that's about 35% reduction? So that would bring it to 3250 damage.

That 22k armor, would probably be a debuffed fully mitigation too so it's a good number to use.

Which just blocking and armor and PvP a 20k attack goes to 3250 damage, for a bit of perspective, vigor can heal for 2k in 1 sec (over 50% of your damage dealt)

You can add in more mitigation like armor sets or vampire. If that person was a vamp and in low health range that same 20k would do as little as 2,400 damage. If you put reactive armor with that your 20k tooltip would deal 1,800 damage. (Which is really close to that 800 mark you were mentioning?)

So if you build around for it you can get massive mitigation. All I mentioned was: Vamp, Heavy Armor, Reactive armor set, blocking - all of which every class has access to.

If you add any racial mitigation or Malubeth or even sets like Permafrost you get builds like what you're mentioning.

Rohamad_Ali · August 2016

Some of my attacks are not even registering damage against players tonight . Sometimes I wonder if the game is completely broke . I'm talking AOE attacks too . Does not work half the time .

ForsakenSin · August 2016

AshTal wrote: »

We had a similar situation 5 of us attacking a sorc. As a sorc myself I had no idea why my crystal frags and deadric curse looked like they were doing only 4% of the guys health. 5 of us were losing against this single player and then another group arrived and managed to take him down, 10 of us vs 1 and it still took 3 minutes to kill him. He was kicking out insane damage while healing and shielding everything we did.

Another battle I was in 1 v 1 and I was dead in 3 seconds. It was a 2 hander spamming dizzying strike each blow did 7K+ went through my shield and 30K health in the same time I got one crystal frag off.

I don't know if I am just building terrible build, if there are god builds out there which make players almost unbeatable or if they are cheating.

Nah mate probably nothing wrong with your build your just playing as Magic Sorc unfortunately

You might want to try making stam sorc im experimenting with my one, not finished yet but i can see difference...

NBrookus · August 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

If you add any racial mitigation or Malubeth or even sets like Permafrost you get builds like what you're mentioning.

Thread hijack @Waffennacht

I played around with Permafrost on my mag DK tanking for pve dungeons, mostly because I had it and was short of rubedite and need Undaunted. The health regen was pretty awesome with normal heavy use of Igneous Shield while tanking. I've since gone to Tavas, but my feeling was this is potentially an under appreciated set. Have you used it?

For pve tanking, I would experiment with pairing it with Tava's + Bloodspawn if I could just get another ring instead of a 5th arcane ring of glory. For pvp... still thinking about that one.

RoamingRiverElk · August 2016

You have about 5 or 6k too much hp for a heavy hitting build

Toast_STS · August 2016

well you said most were templars but if any were DKs they might have been using magma shell/corrosive armor.

Jaiden · August 2016

Drop some HP, up your stam. In non CP campaign, around 20k hp is fine where you have about 28-30k max stam. Weapon damage buffed to about 3.5 -4k is good as well. It's more about balance. And by God man, get that stam regen up. Seeing 24k max stam with less than 1k stam regen makes baby Jesus cry.

Johngo0036 · August 2016

you want your crit % up and your MAX STAM,

Weapon damage is no use if you dont have crit and max stam to boost the damage,

Bromburak · August 2016

Can Anyone Explain My Low Damage

Wrobel

Waffennacht · August 2016

@NBrookus no I have not tried the set myself. I thought about it once as I have all armor and the necklace, but no rings.

From my understanding it's a really good set in the healthplar build.

But my builds are so focused in other directions i doubt the health regen would be all that helpful.

I guess I should test it, see what kind of health regen you have when it's up.

It would pair nicely with some ideas i've had, if the health regen is good enough

KundaliniHero · August 2016

Have you tried spamming surprise attack over and over again, that's what all the "pro's" do.

On a serious note though, most experienced pvp players are usually running high impen, not to mention cancerplars running around with Malubeth, so you're already facing an uphill battle. But as NB with those stats I would think you would still be wrecking [snip]. Maybe just play another game that isn't broken on so many levels, experience the refreshing liberation that comes with just walking away rather than holding your breath in an endless treadmill of fails.