Derra wrote: »

Probably too much work. I´d rather not have them make game systems even more complex because they already hardly seem to understand the implications of their doings - atleast for pvp.

Fair enough. Anything you think could be done quickly and not overly complicated?

Or for hilarity, change the cost of a roll dodge to take from the health bar instead of the stamina bar. That would be hilarious.

SRIBES wrote: »

Its called a blazing shield templar

I personally like my own taxonomy:

Magplar - standard light armor, squishy healer type - free AP if found on their own.

Trollplar - blazing shield high health build - kill them last

Cancerplar - reactive/malubeth - trololol

Stamplar - dawnbreaker OP - hello FOTM.

Can we balance magicka to compete with Stamina first?.

Magus wrote: »

To be fair, stamplar is more the FOTM of last month. This month's FOTM is stamsorc. That synergy of dawnbreaker then having hurricane up and then proc'ing implosion is pretty deadly.

The weird thing is that the predicted FOTMs of Stamina DK and Stamina NBs never really happened.

susmitds wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

To be fair, stamplar is more the FOTM of last month. This month's FOTM is stamsorc. That synergy of dawnbreaker then having hurricane up and then proc'ing implosion is pretty deadly.

The weird thing is that the predicted FOTMs of Stamina DK and Stamina NBs never really happened.

Lol, man you cray - stamblade FOTM is in full swing. WTB Incap nerf.

sDK is also very good, I just don't think as many people jive with the play style.

But on the OP's point, I would also like to see some additional value added to health. The problem is that this game has incredibly shallow stat mechanics which sort of limits the number of things that could be done with health. Scaling Vigor with health is a very interesting idea though. I look forward to hearing more ideas.

Stamblades were never really FOTM, they just have always been the best gankers. And ganking has always been an popular playstyle. In the open world, stamsorcs or stamplars destroy stamblades.

This. Although I am tired of being unable to cc break Incap sometimes.

Also stacking health is already powerful with how strong mitigation and heals and heavy armor are right now. I think magicka and stamina balance needs to be addressed first. I would hesitate to nerf any one stam class's damage or healing or buff health in some way before a comprehensive rebalancing is done.

The ability to dish out damage, the ability to mitigate incoming damage, and the ability to heal should not all depend on the same stat.

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Can we? Maybe we can. Here's my thoughts and please contribute!

- Make vigor scale off max health. Review stamina dmg to ensure they receive the highest dmg potential (as they should). Two hander keeps rally.
- do we see health provide scaling for all mitigation or help promote ability use? Anything that keeps dmg from happening should fall under health (dodge, shield, etc.). This looks like it should force looking into 3 stats for a build instead of stacking a primary resource.
- ways to counter mitigation: should there be a way to actively reduce someone's chance to dodge? If shield falls under health scaling, and there are ways to reduce someone's shield effectiveness, then there should be a way to reduce other mitigations as well.
- how do any of these changes effect current sets or gear?
- Can we change heavy armor sets to reflect this health change? Make heavy armor the only armor to allow crit resistance (5 or more pieces). Make the CP star require 5 pieces of heavy. Forces users to accept full dmg or make sacrifices.

Thoughts? Fully open topic and let's keep it constructive

First point is just wrong, trollplars and huge health pool dk's will be unkillable with viable vigor.

They will not be any more unkillable than stam builds with huge stamina pools are right now.

Even if their healing will be equal to the heals stam builds have today, they will still die easier because they will not have the stamina for constant dodge rolling and CC breaking - health pool does not help with that.

Sharee wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Can we? Maybe we can. Here's my thoughts and please contribute!

- Make vigor scale off max health. Review stamina dmg to ensure they receive the highest dmg potential (as they should). Two hander keeps rally.
- do we see health provide scaling for all mitigation or help promote ability use? Anything that keeps dmg from happening should fall under health (dodge, shield, etc.). This looks like it should force looking into 3 stats for a build instead of stacking a primary resource.
- ways to counter mitigation: should there be a way to actively reduce someone's chance to dodge? If shield falls under health scaling, and there are ways to reduce someone's shield effectiveness, then there should be a way to reduce other mitigations as well.
- how do any of these changes effect current sets or gear?
- Can we change heavy armor sets to reflect this health change? Make heavy armor the only armor to allow crit resistance (5 or more pieces). Make the CP star require 5 pieces of heavy. Forces users to accept full dmg or make sacrifices.

Thoughts? Fully open topic and let's keep it constructive

First point is just wrong, trollplars and huge health pool dk's will be unkillable with viable vigor.

They will not be any more unkillable than stam builds with huge stamina pools are right now.

Even if their healing will be equal to the heals stam builds have today, they will still die easier because they will not have the stamina for constant dodge rolling and CC breaking - health pool does not help with that.

This was my line of thinking when I made that suggestion. Yes they will be able to have one heal, but still no way to cc break or dodge roll.

Ultimately for any class balance we should be looking at all three stats along with every aspect of the game to provide a fair gaming experience.

Magus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Probably too much work. I´d rather not have them make game systems even more complex because they already hardly seem to understand the implications of their doings - atleast for pvp.

Fair enough. Anything you think could be done quickly and not overly complicated?

Buff boneshield duration to 6s in line with other shields and reduce the cost of it, but that's about it. Maybe add a small heal to it.

The main advantage of high health is that you can survive a burst from out of stealth and it keeps you above execute range longer. A high health build really does require a group with heals and dps to do much of anything though.

Trollpar blazing builds had their moment though, still work against potatoes that melee you but most players know how to counter it now.

Buffing boneshield looks good. Might be too close to functioning like blazing shield?

Is that the only advantage of high health? If there are limited skills/gear to work with, I'd argue that maybe there should be a few sets that help provide viability for higher health builds (for build diversity).

As of right now, how many people run more than 26k health on their builds?

The trollplar was unique and you have to give credit to the players trying to find a play experience that doesn't involve stacking stamina or Magicka.

Thanks for the comments!

Minno wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Probably too much work. I´d rather not have them make game systems even more complex because they already hardly seem to understand the implications of their doings - atleast for pvp.

Fair enough. Anything you think could be done quickly and not overly complicated?

Buff boneshield duration to 6s in line with other shields and reduce the cost of it, but that's about it. Maybe add a small heal to it.

The main advantage of high health is that you can survive a burst from out of stealth and it keeps you above execute range longer. A high health build really does require a group with heals and dps to do much of anything though.

Trollpar blazing builds had their moment though, still work against potatoes that melee you but most players know how to counter it now.

Buffing boneshield looks good. Might be too close to functioning like blazing shield?

Is that the only advantage of high health? If there are limited skills/gear to work with, I'd argue that maybe there should be a few sets that help provide viability for higher health builds (for build diversity).

As of right now, how many people run more than 26k health on their builds?

The trollplar was unique and you have to give credit to the players trying to find a play experience that doesn't involve stacking stamina or Magicka.

Thanks for the comments!

Boneshield right now pretty similar to blazing shield, just one works off stam pool instead of magicka pool. Luckily they reverted the change to make boneshield not scale off of stamina, that would have been annoying to deal with. But I would support giving a small heal on cast to bone shield similar to healing ward in the range of 1-3k depending on how much you stack into the health pool.

Tank is a viable playstyle, I've watched Taran's videos as a high health pool DK as a raid lead, it makes him tanky but you don't see him putting out much damage but he's not dying - he's usually one of the last in his group to die. A dead crown is not a fun group to follow. I've seen Vortexman and Patrick Scott having fun tanking as well. Escorpio Nocturno also. They seem to enjoy seeing how many guys they can tank before they finally die. They build that way but they need a team with them to DPS unless their opponents decide to stand in standards and not heal or something. Those last 3 have run different more lethal builds too of course, I'm referring to their tanking builds. I'll give Vyr Cor an honorable mention as well, he has some good videos showing him tanking and taking some hits for K-hole.

I try to run 26k as a bare minimum in light armor. I like to have around 29-30k in heavy armor. You don't end up with 40k stamina or magicka but your pools are more balanced (in the range of 30-34) and you can survive a gank attempt. This works fine if you aren't trying to 1vX where that damage burst is more necessary.

Trollpar was definitely very unique. The other unique build that comes to mind was the health regenerator builds - another shout out to Patrick Scott and Pa'Qo. Most other builds are pretty cookie-cutter.